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Kilravock posted:What else are going to spend it on if not that? Accelerating future ship line research?
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Dec 8, 2016 07:58
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nckdUuOfgQQ Funtage #6
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Dec 8, 2016 13:58
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Hah, I love how he got reported 6 times for doing a 3 man platoon of shiratsuyus.
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Dec 8, 2016 15:17
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Oh drat, I'll have to watch this when I'm not at work and can really appreciate it
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Dec 8, 2016 16:43
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Encapsulates my feelings about carriers pretty well. They're basically square self propelled mosquito hives. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 16:58
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Hyper can can is pretty much the audio equivalent of a 24 citadel Atlanta game tbh.
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Dec 8, 2016 17:10
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Thing prints money, even on a loss.
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Dec 8, 2016 19:15
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Just had a game where an NC suicided by broadsiding an Iowa, Bismark and a Tirpitz and then asking how he could possibly die after crossing the enemy's T. When he was called out on how dumb that is in any ship, let alone an NC, he claimed that the had trouble not doing it after 'cross the T' was drilled into him for so many years. I think I've discovered an actual ghost playing WoWs.
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Dec 8, 2016 19:20
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AfroSquirrel posted:Just had a game where an NC suicided by broadsiding an Iowa, Bismark and a Tirpitz and then asking how he could possibly die after crossing the enemy's T. When he was called out on how dumb that is in any ship, let alone an NC, he claimed that the had trouble not doing it after 'cross the T' was drilled into him for so many years. Sounds like a Steel Ocean player.
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Dec 8, 2016 19:31
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AfroSquirrel posted:Just had a game where an NC suicided by broadsiding an Iowa, Bismark and a Tirpitz and then asking how he could possibly die after crossing the enemy's T. When he was called out on how dumb that is in any ship, let alone an NC, he claimed that the had trouble not doing it after 'cross the T' was drilled into him for so many years. This guy must have played ALOT of games to get into his NC since his average XP is probably totally garbage. It's the only reason I can think of that would allow someone so bad at the game to get a ship beyond T5.
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Dec 8, 2016 19:37
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Vengarr posted:Sounds like a Steel Ocean player. Yeah, basically. The position he was in would've been super good there, especially if he was far enough away to be unseen and had a DD scouting those guys for his shots.
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Dec 8, 2016 19:38
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Speaking of the NC, I'm like 1k XP from unlocking the Iowa and I thought I'd see the summary of the journey through T8: Not too bad. Honestly outside of the argument where I posted my stats for the Kaiser and Konig I haven't been to warships today in a long while so I didn't know what this would look like. I expected it to be much worse. The first 20-30 games I played were a total shock because of how different the standard battleships and the new generation fast battleships play in this game. In fact I straight up dreaded playing this ship early on. Lots of getting deleted - because of how every ship is pretty powerful now and how squishy you are, and getting torped to death - because of how DDs now have tons of long range torps they can stealth fire. Generally speaking players are better too - you see more angling, better shooting, better tactics (I emphasize "generally speaking" because there are still plenty of potatoes at T8 and above). It's just not as easy to play as your average T5 match where a lot of players tend to be newer and dumber. Eventually though everything kind of clicked and the meta of higher tier games sets in. You know what to do with your boat, where to go on a map, etc. In short: The NC owns and I'm definitely not selling it. I look forward to being able to compare this ship to the Bismark when I make it through the Gneisenau Edit: Just saw my stats for the Gneisenau through 33 games. 36% winrate 
Ice Fist fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 20:00
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Ice Fist posted:Edit: Just saw my stats for the Gneisenau through 33 games. 36% winrate My record in my Scharnhorst is similarly bad, usually because I'm trying to drag a win out by being too aggressive and getting into manfights with big ships that get interrupted by destroyers.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:30
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Gearhead posted:My record in my Scharnhorst is similarly bad, usually because I'm trying to drag a win out by being too aggressive and getting into manfights with big ships that get interrupted by destroyers. Yeah, I sorta did this in the Bismarck for a while, I'm still fixing that win rate and average damage.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:40
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Thundercakes posted:Yeah, I sorta did this in the Bismarck for a while, I'm still fixing that win rate and average damage. I'd go back and fix my Ibuki win rate, but I don't particularly want to.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:50
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AfroSquirrel posted:Just had a game where an NC suicided by broadsiding an Iowa, Bismark and a Tirpitz and then asking how he could possibly die after crossing the enemy's T. When he was called out on how dumb that is in any ship, let alone an NC, he claimed that the had trouble not doing it after 'cross the T' was drilled into him for so many years. "Crossing the T" is questionably useful even in WW2 naval combat, since ships can turn their guns and don't need to be broadside to open fire. The tactic was a lot more important before radio allowed ships to coordinate their maneuvers better, and certainly vital during the age of sail. Since WoWS doesn't even have any downsides to a BB firing its superfiring turrets (in real life, it'd be quite terrifying to be in the A turret of a bow-on Iowa, for instance), this is taken to 11, with "Crossing the T" being a BAD idea, not a good one.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:05
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Many of the things that made crossing the T good aren't present in WoWs, such as coordinated fleet maneuvers, slow fire control "computers" (a room full of dudes with slide rules), lack of remote power control for turrets, and high engagement range.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:08
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Gearhead posted:My record in my Scharnhorst is similarly bad, usually because I'm trying to drag a win out by being too aggressive and getting into manfights with big ships that get interrupted by destroyers. I'm not overly shocked by my Gneisenau stats. For me the ship has been feast or famine. I think it was wdarkk and I yesterday in a Scharnhorst/Gneisenau squad where I got like 120k damage and was just super aggressive and then a little later in the night I had another game where I had 20k and died in a (literal) fire. You may be a really fast BB but you can still be kited like a bitch. Really gotta pick your moments. Being too aggressive because ~battleship with torpedoes~ can really gently caress you over. I think Flamu did a commentary in a DD recently where a Gneisenau rushed him in smoke and Flamu was like 'lol just gunna rush you right back' and annihilated him. That pretty much encapsulated the Gneisenau 'way-too-aggressive' experience.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:10
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I think the reason you wanted to "cross the T" in terms of WW2 ships IRL is that 1) a BB firing bow on hosed up the deck with the giant blasts of flame from its guns and 2) shells were a lot more horizontally accurate than vertically accurate, so you have a better chance of scoring hits.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:15
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wdarkk posted:Many of the things that made crossing the T good aren't present in WoWs, such as coordinated fleet maneuvers, slow fire control "computers" (a room full of dudes with slide rules), lack of remote power control for turrets, and high engagement range. Umm, a fire control "table" wasn't even a room full of dudes with slide rules in WWI. By WWII they were mechanical computers capable of (in the best case) forming a continuous firing solution on maneuvering planes. ranbo das posted:I think the reason you wanted to "cross the T" in terms of WW2 ships IRL is that 1) a BB firing bow on hosed up the deck with the giant blasts of flame from its guns and 2) shells were a lot more horizontally accurate than vertically accurate, so you have a better chance of scoring hits. Also it seems that bows were much more penetrable than in WoWS, where a lot of the time you can get autobounces from the thin plating of the bow.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:17
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Kore_Fero posted:Pretty much this. While NC does have a bit more opportunity to redeploy to another part of the map by making more agile turns, generally you live and die on the side of the map that you find yourself on. I see my job as an NC to point myself toward the enemy and be a giant damage tank/obstacle for whichever objective is in front of me. Of course I don't risk myself uselessly, but I move in behind the DDs, take advantage of their smokes when they let me and delete cruisers that try to threaten our objective cappers and drive off other BBs. You can absorb high amounts of damage that would otherwise be aimed at more fragile teammates but its up to them to make use of it (hint: they don't). So take this with a grain of salt since I don't drive either an Iowa or an NC; however, is it literally impossible to angle these ships which that they can bring all of their guns to bear without risking deletion? Whenever I see an Iowa driver parked driving backwards I relentlessly taunt them in chat. And if they're on the other team, if I'm in a ship with toros, I go out of my way to maneuver so that I can put a whole spread of torps into them, the taunt them. AfroSquirrel posted:Just had a game where an NC suicided by broadsiding an Iowa, Bismark and a Tirpitz and then asking how he could possibly die after crossing the enemy's T. When he was called out on how dumb that is in any ship, let alone an NC, he claimed that the had trouble not doing it after 'cross the T' was drilled into him for so many years. To be fair, in "real life" crossing someone's T is a captain ships Captains wet dream. That said, by the time you get to a North Carolina, you should know Warboats doesn't work that way. Hazdoc posted:"Crossing the T" is questionably useful even in WW2 naval combat, since ships can turn their guns and don't need to be broadside to open fire. The tactic was a lot more important before radio allowed ships to coordinate their maneuvers better, and certainly vital during the age of sail. Since WoWS doesn't even have any downsides to a BB firing its superfiring turrets (in real life, it'd be quite terrifying to be in the A turret of a bow-on Iowa, for instance), this is taken to 11, with "Crossing the T" being a BAD idea, not a good one. Battleship armor was designed to be broadside. The reason you want to "cross the T," even during the Second World War, is twofold. 1. You want to maximize the shells on target, and neutralize one of the most common reasons for missing (overshoots). Being broadside you can bring all your turrets to bear on your opponent, while your opponent can only bring two to bear on you. This even works for a Nelson, since the 3rd turret is not superfiring. Shells that would normally miss long are also likely to be hits in this scenario. 2. Related to number one. Typically capital ships would not be fighting alone. There would be a line of battle still so, if you cross the t you are doubling, tripling, or quadrupling down on 1. If you have 4 ships with 4x3 turret configurations, by crossing someone's t you have 48 guns shooting at the lead enemy ship, who can only shoot back at you with 6 (assuming a similar configuration). The enemy behind the first ship in the enemies line, are going to be obstructed by their lead ship, etc. Honestly, when it comes to naval artillery it would still be of value to "cross Ts" today; though that would never come up. It's really similar in principle to enfilade fire in infantry combat, which is still tactically relevant in modern warfare despite the fact dudes don't fight standing in lines anymore. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 21:24
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xthetenth posted:Umm, a fire control "table" wasn't even a room full of dudes with slide rules in WWI. By WWII they were mechanical computers capable of (in the best case) forming a continuous firing solution on maneuvering planes. Unless the book I have on the Bismarck is stupidly wrong, that was not the case across all navies.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:31
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wdarkk posted:Unless the book I have on the Bismarck is stupidly wrong, that was not the case across all navies. Pretty much the only ships capable of continuous fire solutions were the Iowas and the North Carolina's, and then only really in 1945. Most other navies used a hybrid optical/radar system. The optical system was used for range finding and the radar for angular momentum; the analog computers could use the radar to maintain a solution as long as either you or the target didn't change course. Once that happened you'd have to re-acquire ranging with your optics before your computers + radar could give you a good solution.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:57
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ZombieLenin posted:So take this with a grain of salt since I don't drive either an Iowa or an NC; however, is it literally impossible to angle these ships which that they can bring all of their guns to bear without risking deletion? Point one regarding angling: Yes. Bringing all your guns to bear is a huge risk. That risk is acceptable at times, like if you run a low detection setup, but a risk nonetheless. Point two regarding reversing: Positioning is everything. If you're uselessly reversing and just taking pot shots at 20km then lol. If you're alone and pushing into a cap then lol. But if you're being aggressive and supporting teammates that are capturing objectives and find yourself under fire, then you point your bow at the enemy and become nigh immune to heavy damage hits. Going bow on is a tool you use in the grand scheme of surviving long enough to apply damage to the enemy. In the .gif I posted earlier I was positioned just at the edge of a cap, had a destroyer screen, a Des Moines buddy next to me, was firing all three turrets at a Minotaur and all the while I was bow on to the enemy Yamato and Bismark pushing towards the cap. Pretty much the perfect situation to be in. Edit: Actually being broadside to a Minotaur is objectively not-a-good-thing. But it was the lesser of two evils and I'm not entirely sure he could shoot back. Ice Fist fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 22:01
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wdarkk posted:Unless the book I have on the Bismarck is stupidly wrong, that was not the case across all navies. For them it'd be more along the lines of a few dudes with instruments manually inputting some info that goes through a computer, which outputs where the turrets should point. Not sure how less sophisticated AA directors worked, and German ones were weird and seriously troublesome.
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Dec 9, 2016 00:34
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Hazdoc posted:"Crossing the T" is questionably useful even in WW2 naval combat, since ships can turn their guns and don't need to be broadside to open fire. The tactic was a lot more important before radio allowed ships to coordinate their maneuvers better, and certainly vital during the age of sail. Since WoWS doesn't even have any downsides to a BB firing its superfiring turrets (in real life, it'd be quite terrifying to be in the A turret of a bow-on Iowa, for instance), this is taken to 11, with "Crossing the T" being a BAD idea, not a good one. Crossing the T is always useful in direct fire engagements. Shell hit percentages were so low (1% region) that it simply made sense to mass as many guns as possible on the smallest part of the enemy formation before the rest could fire back. Crossing the T means explicitly removing a large part of the enemy force from being able to engage you while all of yours are able to engage the enemy. Crossing the T has no meaning once the rest of the enemy fleet manages to move into range (but that is really hard to do if you are the one getting caught). Your force would actively be maneuvering to keep most of your fleet out of range of the bulk of the enemy fleet. Usually the only safe way for the enemy force to bring its guns online was to make a 90 degree turn as soon as humanly possible once you noticed you were being fired at, bring your own force parallel to his and slug it out or make a direct U turn to get the gently caress out dodge. You could I guess go the suicidal Nelson route and charge the enemy fleet in line formation and simply hope that you don't lose so many lead ships to make it an uneven fight but the chance of your battleline eating mass torpedo dumps from enemy escorts made it bad idea.
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Dec 9, 2016 01:48
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Also the longer ranges got the more turning 90 became the go to because there was progressively less and less that a faster fleet could do to outrun that maneuver, and that got going as early as dreadnought.
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Dec 9, 2016 02:25
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Ice Fist posted:Edit: Actually being broadside to a Minotaur is objectively not-a-good-thing. But it was the lesser of two evils and I'm not entirely sure he could shoot back. "Would I rather be broadside to a Yamato or a Minotaur" is a tough call. The Minotaur can't really do much if you're bow on, but as you saw the Yamato can still get massive hits through the bow.
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Dec 9, 2016 02:36
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Oh hey look, flamu has a misery. And then shows up with a 208k damage game that nets him 1mil credits and 12k xp. And his base xp was only 2.7k. That was with the 50% daily win bonus, but still incredible. However, one shouldn't be surprised seeing as it is a tier 9 premium. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tONQRMAXJkQ
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Dec 9, 2016 03:15
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Hazdoc posted:"Crossing the T" is questionably useful even in WW2 naval combat, since ships can turn their guns and don't need to be broadside to open fire. The tactic was a lot more important before radio allowed ships to coordinate their maneuvers better, and certainly vital during the age of sail. Since WoWS doesn't even have any downsides to a BB firing its superfiring turrets (in real life, it'd be quite terrifying to be in the A turret of a bow-on Iowa, for instance), this is taken to 11, with "Crossing the T" being a BAD idea, not a good one. I figured crossing the T was mostly derived from when ships all lined up and followed each other, so that it's not one ship doing it, it's all your ships doing it, which means you've got half a dozen ships in a firing line versus a bunch of ships in the way of each other.
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Dec 9, 2016 03:46
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I am finding more and more as I learn this game (approach 550 battles) that having the team with the better DDs that know how to scout and cap and beat other DDs at this game is by far the most deterministic thing as to which side wins. If you are in a BB or CA, you can rarely make up for terrible DDs screwing up early.
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Dec 9, 2016 07:45
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Which line has the most fun destroyers? Which line are the easiest to learn?
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Dec 9, 2016 09:09
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I would say destroyers probably aren't very easy to learn in general. You're in a fragile ship which has quite particular ways of dealing with situations and quite specialized weaponry, and your role is fairly critical because the rest of the team depends on you to scout and not die in the process.
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Dec 9, 2016 09:11
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What ones should I play though? My highest ship is tier 3 so it's not like I'm jumping into high tier games.
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Dec 9, 2016 09:28
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American destroyers are easiest of the three branches available imo, you get a general overview of all kinds of DD play, and the ships are effective fighters and similar in gameplay from start to finish; then once you learn those, you can move into more specialised gunships in the Russians which don't get good or set their style until tier 6, or stealth torpedo boats and odd gunships that are a real mixed bag in the Japanese. Germans will be out soon, no real idea about them yet.
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Dec 9, 2016 09:33
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NTRabbit posted:American destroyers are easiest of the three branches available imo, you get a general overview of all kinds of DD play, and the ships are effective fighters and similar in gameplay from start to finish; then once you learn those, you can move into more specialised gunships in the Russians which don't get good or set their style until tier 6, or stealth torpedo boats and odd gunships that are a real mixed bag in the Japanese. Germans will be out soon, no real idea about them yet. I'll try them out. Is it possible to hack firerate in this game or does the dresden just have machine gun artillery 
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Dec 9, 2016 09:35
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underage at the vape shop posted:I'll try them out. There's no hack for fire rate, some ships at low tiers just have enough guns that they can nearly ripple fire the lot and be reloaded on the first gun again, like Dresden, St. Louis. Also at higher tiers like Atlanta and Minotaur, except at they just fire all of their turrets at once, and then again, and again, and again
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Dec 9, 2016 09:46
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In terms of difficulty for DDs, I would say that USN are the best generalists, IJN and VMF are very specialised. USN DDs suffer from rainbow arcs past 8km if you're not especially good at shot prediction and have versatile, if not particularly impressive torpedoes until tier 9.OwlFancier posted:I would say destroyers probably aren't very easy to learn in general. You're in a fragile ship which has quite particular ways of dealing with situations and quite specialized weaponry, and your role is fairly critical because the rest of the team depends on you to scout and not die in the process. Destroyers tend to be harder for people to play, the lack of armour and health means that one can make less mistakes. However, the soft survivability options of destroyers, such as smoke, speed boost, and low detection (plus stealth fire that will be removed at some point) contribute greatly to a player that understands their ship's limitations and can turn these defensive options into offensive ones as well. While I generally agree with the fragility of destroyers and their specialty weapons, I disagree that a their primary role is to scout. For me, destroyers are an opportunistic ship, taking advantage when others are distracted. You may get the initial spotting and can harass people by simply keeping them in view while being unseen yourself, but damage is the ultimate decider of most matches and you should always push for as much as possible. A DD's stealth is for getting into an advantageous position and dealing damage.
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Dec 9, 2016 10:04
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So far I've managed to charge to within 2km of a BB without realising it because i was busy trying to stealth torp snipe cruisers 
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Dec 9, 2016 10:24
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underage at the vape shop posted:I'll try them out. Oh, don't worry, the truly absurd firing rates in the game don't pop up until the high tiers. Simply in terms of shells in the air the standouts, in order, are: -Minotaur (T10 RN cruiser) with 5 x 2 152mm turrets. Can get its reload down to 2.8 seconds -Gearing (T10 US destroyer) with 3 x 2 127mm turrets. Can get its reload down to 2.3 seconds -Akizuki (T8 IJN branch line destroyer) with 4 x 2 100mm turrets. Can get its reload down to 2.7 seconds or, Premiumwise: -Atlanta (T7 US cruiser) with 8 x 2 127mm turrets (though two are side-exclusive, rather than centerline, meaning only 7 can be brought to bear). Can get its reload down to 4.5 seconds If you just want to be amused by how high you can get your hit count, the destroyers are generally better, despite the fractionally lower overall shell rates, simply due to lacking the extremely squishy citadels the two cruisers possess.
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