|
Mirthless posted:My solution would have been to understand this was an issue the American people just didn't care about - no matter how much I didn't like that fact - and focused on issues that I could convince them were important, instead. This is opposed to what we did do, which was attempt to passive aggressively guilt trip America into realizing they were being dicks. Respectfully, I'm not sure I buy this idea that we should have avoided the issue because it was unpopular. And how was saying "Those people aren't monsters, they are human, they've been driven out of their homes and they need a place to go. We're a country of immigrants and if we turn them away we are validating everything ISIS says about us" an instance of us "trying too hard"?
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 09:57 |
|
|
comingafteryouall posted:this is spineless bullshit. There are a lot of Democratic voters that care about the refugee issue and it would have been a disservice to ignore it. There are a lot of independent and conservative voters that think islamic terrorism is a real problem and our efforts to convince them of anything but that point have ended in utter failure. We do not have the support of the media, we do not have the support of the electorate, and the terror attacks continue. This isn't about what Democratic voters want. This was never about what Democratic voters want. We lost the election because "what Democratic voters want***" was the only thing we could focus on this election (***"the good ones") Alter Ego posted:Respectfully, I'm not sure I buy this idea that we should have avoided the issue because it was unpopular. And how was saying "Those people aren't monsters, they are human, they've been driven out of their homes and they need a place to go. We're a country of immigrants and if we turn them away we are validating everything ISIS says about us" an instance of us "trying too hard"? the part where we kept talking about it after the Pulse shootings
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:20
|
|
|
racists bad don't be racist
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:22
|
|
|
is there a reason y'all are engaging with the gamergate moron?
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:23
|
|
|
Mirthless posted:
So your solution is "welp we've lost, time to throw in the towel and play it safe"? Isn't this why we lost in November? Courage of conviction is far more worthy of respect than blowing with the political wind, no matter which end of the spectrum you are on. It's why some people on the right respected Bernie Sanders, even if they thought he was wrong about everything, and it's why so many people on this very forum feel such contempt for many prominent Democratic politicians for not coming around on gay rights until it became clear that it was "safe" to do so.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:24
|
|
|
Mirthless posted:We don't have tens of thousands of white christians trying to immigrate into the country from a place where we are currently at war with like a dozen different groups who all look like said refugee group This is more of what I'm getting at. There's a certain consistency and honesty that liberal politics in general has seen erode over the last 10 or 15 years. Fox News brought about a polarization of media outlets and in the process the liberal platform was forced to adopt a lot of tribalist bullshit to maintain an opposed front against that onslaught, but I think in the long run it has weakened them to moderates. Not everyone who is concerned about terrorism is a racist rube, and neither is everyone who is concerned about immigration and crime. Many of the decision made by the Dems, while I'm sure they were done for what was perceived as the right reasons, are a turn-off to the average swing or moderate voter. "Why aren't we checking the immigration status of criminals currently in custody and enforcing that law?" is a reasonable question. "Why is the media on the left reflexively bringing out the mantra for tolerance against Muslims during a terrorist attack or mass shooting, but not with any other demographic?" is also a valid question. I know why. Most D&D posters know why. But to many average people who see the same routine over and over again, it just appears to be picking sides. There has to be a certain amount of consistency to the arguments put forth and the tribalist mentality prevents that. If you're going to advocate for tolerance and understanding, you should probably do it universally instead of in select situations. If you're going to advocate for rule of law, you should probably not ignore the law when it's inconvenient to your side.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:25
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:"Why is the media on the left reflexively bringing out the mantra for tolerance against Muslims during a terrorist attack or mass shooting, but not with any other demographic?" is also a valid question. I know why. Most D&D posters know why. But to many average people who see the same routine over and over again, it just appears to be picking sides. Because we're not worried about white convenience store clerks and random passersby being attacked for "looking white" after a white guy shoots up a church or an abortion clinic. We don't instinctively ask white politicians to answer for the actions of all white people. Conversely, I don't think I can remember a domestic terrorism incident perpetrated by a person with a Muslim-sounding name that wasn't immediately followed up by at least one incident of anti-Muslim violence.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:28
|
|
|
Alter Ego posted:So your solution is "welp we've lost, time to throw in the towel and play it safe"? Isn't this why we lost in November? Courage of conviction is far more worthy of respect than blowing with the political wind, no matter which end of the spectrum you are on. It's why some people on the right respected Bernie Sanders, even if they thought he was wrong about everything. We had courage of conviction on this issue for the most part and we looked like weaklings in the face of terrorism. If you think this is a conviction the right would respect, I envy you, because you have way more faith in them than I do. I live in the heart of conservative America and the syrian refugee issue was something nobody out here ever shut up about. I got the same from my mostly leftist family in Michigan. There is support for this in some parts of the country but in a lot of places it is about as toxic an issue as you can get. We lost voters because of this, I guarantee it. We didn't even get substantially more muslim voters than we normally do in the process. My solution is "we should throw in the towel because this is a fight that is literally impossible for us to win." Maybe we can have a rematch in four-eight years when we don't have the kids of first generation immigrants shooting up a building every two weeks for a year.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:28
|
|
|
I feel like we're not taking advantage of poo poo like what Booker said here enough. Any sort of mobilizing force that drowns out his phone lines and his social media presence whenever he does that stupid poo poo is good. Make him afraid of his seat in 2019 and he'll reel in long before 2019 gets here. I think we should be looking at turning over the seats that we can at local and regional levels and scaring everyone shitless with our impending votes at higher levels. Establishment dems are definitely scared and we should make them much much more scared.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:29
|
|
|
Also if we'd actually managed to win the presidency we could have done something for, say, the sikh gas station clerks of the world over the next four to eight years as anti-islamic hate crimes in the US inevitably get worse Unfortunately, because we are The Party of Principles, we can now do close to nothing for any of those people.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:31
|
|
|
Alter Ego posted:Because we're not worried about white convenience store clerks and random passersby being attacked for "looking white" after a white guy shoots up a church or an abortion clinic. We don't instinctively ask white politicians to answer for the actions of all white people. If you don't think that there is a large, vocal portion of the American left currently demanding that all white people answer for the crimes of all other white people, you aren't paying attention. Also, if you don't think hate crime is being perpetrated against white people as a result of current politics, you have your head in the sand. It's even worse when ostensibly neutral organizations that have been infiltrated by the left attempt to suppress that information: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/dec/5/southern-poverty-law-center-omits-trump-related-ha/ new phone who dis has issued a correction as of 21:33 on Dec 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:31
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:If you don't think that there is a large, vocal portion of the American left currently demanding that all white people answer for the crimes of all other white people, you aren't paying attention. Also, if you don't think hate crime is being perpetrated against white people as a result of current politics, you have your head in the sand. It' Aaaaaaaaaand you just quoted the Moonie Times. Pretty sure that's like the bibliographical Godwin's Law.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:33
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:If you don't think that there is a large, vocal portion of the American left currently demanding that all white people answer for the crimes of all other white people, you aren't paying attention. Also, if you don't think hate crime is being perpetrated against white people as a result of current politics, you have your head in the sand. It's even worse when ostensibly neutral organizations that have been infiltrated by the left attempt to suppress that information: Well I'll see you guys on the balcony.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:33
|
|
|
i regret that my viewpoints have, in venn diagram fashion, overlapped with yours
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:33
|
|
|
Alter Ego posted:Aaaaaaaaaand you just quoted the Moonie Times. Here's the post. http://nypost.com/2016/12/05/report-buried-trump-related-hate-crimes-against-white-kids/
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:34
|
|
|
Can't believe all those white kids got called cracker. Must have really put the fear of God in them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:35
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:Here's the post. The Post is a tabloid. You're zero for two.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:34
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:If you don't think that there is a large, vocal portion of the American left currently demanding that all white people answer for the crimes of all other white people, you aren't paying attention. Also, if you don't think hate crime is being perpetrated against white people as a result of current politics, you have your head in the sand. It's even worse when ostensibly neutral organizations that have been infiltrated by the left attempt to suppress that information:
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:35
|
|
|
Mirthless posted:Maybe we can have a rematch in four-eight years when we don't have the kids of first generation immigrants shooting up a building every two weeks for a year. this has happened like four times in the past two years lol maybe this is why everyone thinks we have an Islamic terrorism scare problem
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:35
|
|
|
Oxxidation posted:The Post is a tabloid. You're zero for two. Maybe if you keep your head down there in the sand long enough, Hillary will finally be president when you come out.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:37
|
|
|
Former Everything posted:black people are the real racists There are not "real" racists, anymore then there is a "real" America. Anyway, speaking of racism, let talk about criminal justice reform, or rather lets look at Hillary's proposals (and thus the current DNC platform) and why they were lovely. The Source: https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/criminal-justice-reform/ So reading this there isn't anything that pokes out as BAD, any obvious problems have long since been focus grouped away. But there are several reoccurring themes which act as a smokescreen to big problems of law enforcement, and thus the root of many social justice problems. quote:Strengthen bonds of trust between communities and police So all of those things are cool and good, but there is a conspicuous lack "stick" to the policies. What happens if a police department just ignores those things? For example, she wants (means tested, of course) funding for body camera's for "every police department in America." Sounds good, but what if the police department of Ferguson just says "no thanks." I guess the plan is just to kick some dirt and say "shucks, at least we tried?" What if police departments continue to mis-use deadly force even after they received their "training?" What if the newly funded federal group to monitor civil rights violations can't actually get the information they need from the police departments, because they are constantly being stone-walled, and of course the police deleted the evidence after they killed the next Michael Brown? Basically I'm asking where is the Accountability for the police? It's not there, and it was never going to be there. When is the supposed party for social justice going to actually attempt to pass policies that will actually support social justice?
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:37
|
|
|
It only gets closer to that figure when you count in all the white guys slaughtering children and peaceful Bible studiers.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:37
|
|
|
Mirthless posted:Also if we'd actually managed to win the presidency we could have done something for, say, the sikh gas station clerks of the world over the next four to eight years as anti-islamic hate crimes in the US inevitably get worse So we become the party of inclusion...except when it looks too politically difficult?
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:37
|
|
|
Being fearful over X-on-white crime instead of white-on-X crime is like putting on hearing protection for a mosquito instead of a jackhammer.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:38
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:Maybe if you keep your head down there in the sand long enough, Hillary will finally be president when you come out. Yes, sure, tail between your legs, off you go.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:38
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:Here's the post. I would personally love to see what a hate crime against a white kid looks like. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:38
|
|
|
Fullhouse posted:this has happened like four times in the past two years lol maybe this is why everyone thinks we have an Islamic terrorism scare problem Yeah, I was engaging in some ripe hyperbole but the Pulse and San Bernadino shootings were practically back to back and had massive body counts. It was still a bad loving time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:38
|
|
|
 I for one am really looking forward to Hillary 2020.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:39
|
|
|
MizPiz posted:I would personally love to see what a hate crime against a white kid looks like. See, no consistency. Hate crimes are bad but gently caress those white kids they can handle it. Oh poo poo how come all these white people voted against us?
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:39
|
|
|
MizPiz posted:I would personally love to see what a hate crime against a white kid looks like. Go find the video of that white guy who accidentally hit a black kid with his car in Detroit a couple of years back and then got dragged out of the car and literally beaten nearly to death for his trouble Severe brain damage, a months long coma, permanent memory loss P. sure the kid he hit didn't even have to go to the hospital (you won't love seeing it though because legitimate hate crimes are really loving scary and gross)
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:39
|
|
|
Just a reminder of the quote in question:quote:Politicians don’t appeal to us. Clinton would go out of her way to appeal to minorities, immigrants, but she didn’t really for everyday Americans. Tatum Girlparts posted:I'm not sure how much clearer I can be really. The conflict of 'immigrants and minorities' vs 'every day americans' is one coming entirely from a white nationalist view. Those people are every day americans too. If you asked them whether there are black "Everyday Americans" do you honestly think they would deny that? Did she even say it was bad to appeal to those groups? The problem doesn't seem to be that Hillary tried to appeal to those groups, the point of contention seems to be that Hillary did not appeal to her and her social circle in particular. Here's a easonable reading of that statement: "Hillary does a lot of work to try and appeal to groups I and my peer group are not a part of" "I wish Hillary would try to appeal, in a similar way, to a group I consider myself part of" "I see myself and my peer group as everyday Americans" "Hillary did not appeal enough to that group" White nationalism is a possibility, but it is very much an assumption on your part and absolutely not required to hold that mindset. A far more reasonable final assessment is "This person voted for Trump because they felt Hillary ignored them and the people they cared about, and when they said 'everyday Americans' those were specifically the people they were thinking about" You seem to go out of your way to assume the worst possible reading of something, when in many situations the rationale is (in my experience) a lot more local, a lot more personal, a lot more emotional and a lot less thoroughly thought out than you assume it is.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:41
|
|
|
40% of surveyed said they have seen attacks on minority students 20% of surveyed said they have seen attacks on white students war on whites says cspam poster
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:41
|
|
|
I saw a video of some children (like 10 year olds) where a white girl called a black boy racial slurs for at least a full minute before he got fed up and punched her in the face I imagine that's probably a good chunk of the anti-white hate crimes
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:44
|
|
|
GlyphGryph posted:White nationalism is a possibility, but it is very much an assumption on your part and absolutely not required to hold that mindset. A far more reasonable final assessment is "This person voted for Trump because they felt Hillary ignored them and the people they cared about, and when they said 'everyday Americans' those were specifically the people they were thinking about" I think Tatum just has a very, very hard time with nuance
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:44
|
|
|
GlyphGryph posted:White nationalism is a possibility, but it is very much an assumption on your part and absolutely not required to hold that mindset. A far more reasonable final assessment is "This person voted for Trump because they felt Hillary ignored them and the people they cared about, and when they said 'everyday Americans' those were specifically the people they were thinking about" Then can we at least agree that if the person who said it wasn't a racist, that it was extremely inelegantly phrased and made it sound like she didn't think immigrants and minorities are "every day Americans"?
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:44
|
|
|
MizPiz posted:I would personally love to see what a hate crime against a white kid looks like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-_Ah1RzgEc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hdH5TtjnLw
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:45
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:See, no consistency. Hate crimes are bad but gently caress those white kids they can handle it. Oh poo poo how come all these white people voted against us? So you don't actually have an example. At least Mirthless tried. Mirthless posted:Go find the video of that white guy who accidentally hit a black kid with his car in Detroit a couple of years back and then got dragged out of the car and literally beaten nearly to death for his trouble Seems pretty clear to me he nearly got killed because he's a poo poo driver, not because he was white. Mob justice is just a normal crime.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:46
|
|
|
hate crimes against white people are the real problem in amerikka and also here is an article that proves it *posts a link to the national enquirer* if only you stupid fuckin libs had realized that tolerance is what lost you this election maybe you would have a chance in the future but since its obvious that u wont change ur mind i guess we all deserve donald trump as president
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:46
|
|
|
hey everybody the centrist whose centrist husband put into law and policy things which imprisoned tens of millions of minorities and permanently damaged minority communities might not have been good for minorities
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 09:57 |
|
|
Powercrazy posted:There are not "real" racists, anymore then there is a "real" America. Yeah hard for me to accept that these people actually give a gently caress about social justice when there isn't a single mention of ending the drug war. Police accountability and use of force are a direct result of our decades long money-hole and POC meat grinder policies that enrich private corporations at the expense of the tax payer.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2016 21:46
|
|
