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The Phlegmatist posted:There's a huge amount of Biblical scholarship only accessible in German. Academic German is horrifying and I'm not learning it okay. everyone else is chilling out in the polyglot zone
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Dec 9, 2016 03:15
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HEY GAL posted:the only people i have ever met with this kind of mental block are americans listen learning languages is hard says the woman who went through a whole Japanese textbook in a two and learned 350 kanji in three with a private teacher
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Dec 9, 2016 03:26
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Mo Tzu posted:listen learning languages is hard says the woman who went through a whole Japanese textbook in a two and learned 350 kanji in three with a private teacher there is a difference
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Dec 9, 2016 03:27
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Smoking Crow posted:whatever you want it to mean Nicely done
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Dec 9, 2016 03:29
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HEY GAL posted:the only people i have ever met with this kind of mental block are americans I once asked a Japanese teacher if it was as hard for her to learn English as it was for me to learn Japanese and she said conversational English was the hardest thing she's ever studied in her life
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Dec 9, 2016 03:40
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English isn't real, it's a conspiracy the "anglophone" countries made up to troll the rest of the world. We all actually just speak French when you're not listening.
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Dec 9, 2016 03:42
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Smoking Crow posted:I once asked a Japanese teacher if it was as hard for her to learn English as it was for me to learn Japanese and she said conversational English was the hardest thing she's ever studied in her life
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Dec 9, 2016 03:47
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HEY GAL posted:yeah our rules are super complicated but nobody ever explains them properly so most english speakers and learners end up thinking we don't actually have any, it rules It doesn't help that most of our middle and high school English teaching sucks and plays up our superficial Latinate vocabulary influence when our much closer cousins are the other Germanic languages. Also as for theology being inaccessible because languages, so far my degree has has me learn about nine ancient languages and three modern ones, so I have absolutely no pity for other Americans on that front. Mug up or get out of the game.
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Dec 9, 2016 04:06
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Bel_Canto posted:Also as for theology being inaccessible because languages, so far my degree has has me learn about nine ancient languages and three modern ones, so I have absolutely no pity for other Americans on that front. Mug up or get out of the game. did all these goddamn german historians tell me this? nope, the requirements for german history are german and french, latin too depending on your period. then i run into piles of letters excellentissimo signore this, bacio la mano that. meanwhile the only people who speak french appear to be native french speakers, its time as a world language is a hundred years in the future edit: the thing about czechs and swedes is that although they were both important ethnic groups in the 17th century, they didn't speak important languages--lots of them did all their writing in german. the swedes because they learned it as a foreign language, the bohemians because a lot of them were bilingual from birth. modern czechs and swedes write about the 30yw a lot though, and they do that in czech and swedish. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 04:18
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academia is great you guys come join the party
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Dec 9, 2016 04:49
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i was at the library and skimmed a book by this Hans Kung guy. is he cool or a crank or what
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Dec 9, 2016 04:51
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Lutha Mahtin posted:i was at the library and skimmed a book by this Hans Kung guy. is he cool or a crank or what Yes
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Dec 9, 2016 05:37
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Lutha Mahtin posted:i was at the library and skimmed a book by this Hans Kung guy. is he cool or a crank or what I read one book by him and it was fine I guess. Since you're a protestant already it won't have that many new ideas. Spacewolf posted:The problem is as much nothing gets carried out in the Church in English as "Everybody speaks English, but the Church works in Italian, or maybe German or Spanish or French when it feels like it". It is literally not possible to do theology without being fluent - really fluent, not just basically fluent - in multiple languages, and that is actually a fairly huge barrier to entry for most people, especially since language training takes time and money, both in significant amounts. I really like Chesterton. Conversely I don't really like CSLewis because his stuff is p. sexist. So who are some of these German and French people I should be reading? Also Russian if you've got some, I need some practice in that. The nice thing about European languages is that when you learn French and Latin, you get to understand Italian for free.
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Dec 9, 2016 06:15
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pidan posted:I really like Chesterton. Conversely I don't really like CSLewis because his stuff is p. sexist. Chesterton wrote against women's suffrage. 
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Dec 9, 2016 06:43
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Did he write that women's suffrage raised taxes and increased the national debt? 
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Dec 9, 2016 08:46
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Caufman posted:What does moral relativism mean to you? I assumed it meant "there is no fully agreed on moral standpoint for all people, therefore it is best to assume that your morals are not always the best". However I would also say that it is hard/ nigh on impossible for there to be a universal "source" for moral behaviour. Smoking Crow posted:please dont start this Oh, sorry! I won't. And as to learning a foreign language chat, I work with a lot of people from a lot of different parts of the world. The main thing I have found out is that English is a lot more forgiving of people making mistakes than the Romance languages. Mainly because if you get the word order wrong it doesn't sound like gibberish, if you ignore some of the rules then its fine and there is a certain willingness to just "make poo poo up". Also, as a personal thing, why on earth people thought chairs, tables and light bulbs need genders is utterly beyond me. For all the problems that English has "The" does not suddenly become wrong if you apply it to a different object. JcDent posted:Did he write that women's suffrage raised taxes and increased the national debt? If its generally conceived as a bad thing today Chesterton probably wrote in favour of it. He was a reactionary for an imagined past of Englishness, which you'd think someone may have pointed out to him at some point. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 09:57
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Bel_Canto posted:just ban everyone, convert or not, from writing or teaching about the faith in any public authoritative context for a minimum of 20 years after their confirmation, with every exception to be reviewed personally by a bishop. private faith talks with your friends? go ahead. but no teaching or publishing on catholic theology until you've lived a couple decades as a normal catholic I'd knock it down to 10 years with the potential for a lifetime ban. If you don't get it by 10 you're never getting it. Edit: I just noticed "convert or not", I'd bump the minimum age to 20 for this, sure. Double edit: I'm mostly kidding but I do think there should be some kind of minimum time investment before youre ordained. That said, Jonah had been Orthodox for a good 15 years before he was ordained so it doesn't stop everyone. Rodrigo Diaz fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 13:43
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Josef bugman posted:I assumed it meant "there is no fully agreed on moral standpoint for all people, therefore it is best to assume that your morals are not always the best". However I would also say that it is hard/ nigh on impossible for there to be a universal "source" for moral behaviour. I can agree with your statement and its humility. Especially for people in power, they should very much consider the fragility of their conscience. Related, I also think it's important for us to consider the works of thinkers who do try to contemplate and develop theories of justice and morality that try to get at universal principles. John Rawls especially comes to mind right now.
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Dec 9, 2016 14:29
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Josef bugman posted:I assumed it meant "there is no fully agreed on moral standpoint for all people, therefore it is best to assume that your morals are not always the best". However I would also say that it is hard/ nigh on impossible for there to be a universal "source" for moral behaviour. The problem with this is that there's no logical basis to argue about morality in a purely relativistic world; who would create the moral norms? People in power, who are able to enforce them using violence. That's a really dangerous road to go down, especially if you're part of a marginalized community, because that's how poo poo like Auschwitz happens. That said, true moral relativists are basically nonexistent. Most of the people arguing for and against moral relativism are actually arguing about consequentialism instead, which has its own set of problems but is at least somewhat defensible. e: Lutha Mahtin posted:i was at the library and skimmed a book by this Hans Kung guy. is he cool or a crank or what You'd probably enjoy Justification. It's good. The Phlegmatist fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 16:29
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The Phlegmatist posted:The problem with this is that there's no logical basis to argue about morality in a purely relativistic world; who would create the moral norms? People in power, who are able to enforce them using violence. That's a really dangerous road to go down, especially if you're part of a marginalized community, because that's how poo poo like Auschwitz happens. True, but to be fair that is often the only morals we get now anyway. I would argue either no source for a universally applicable moral code, or that if there is a source that imparts moral wisdom then it is really bad at its job. Caufman posted:I can agree with your statement and its humility. Especially for people in power, they should very much consider the fragility of their conscience. It's hard to do though, we can all say that we can disagree with people, but the fact is we all assume our positions are the correct ones, and will build the equivalent of snail shells to protect that idea if we have to. I'll have a quick read of that if I manage to get the time. Thank you. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 17:15
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The Phlegmatist posted:You'd probably enjoy Justification. It's good. The book I skimmed was "Can we save the Catholic Church? We can save the Catholic Church!" and he referenced "Justification" in it. While I realize, like pidan said, that some of his ideas are similar to Protestant critiques of Catholicism, I might try to sit down and read something of his in full. I'm interested to see how a modern Catholic, who is still apparently a priest in good-ish standing with the Church, approaches ideas for reform, and how his ideas are similar or different than Protestant ones I'm familiar with.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:06
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Lutha Mahtin posted:The book I skimmed was "Can we save the Catholic Church? We can save the Catholic Church!" and he referenced "Justification" in it. While I realize, like pidan said, that some of his ideas are similar to Protestant critiques of Catholicism, I might try to sit down and read something of his in full. I'm interested to see how a modern Catholic, who is still apparently a priest in good-ish standing with the Church, approaches ideas for reform, and how his ideas are similar or different than Protestant ones I'm familiar with. Well, Kung's been barred from teaching since the 60s so he's not really in good standing. This had little to do with reconciliation of Lutheran and Catholic theology regarding the doctrine of justification and more to do with the fact that Kung denied papal infallibility. Kung's got some big balls attacking both Karl Barth and the fuckin' pope.
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Dec 9, 2016 21:29
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The Phlegmatist posted:Well, Kung's been barred from teaching since the 60s so he's not really in good standing. So I just spent the last 15 minutes reading through Karl Barth's Wikipedia page and he seems like a confessor after my own heart, especially given my upbringing. To frame what the people from my upbringing would have thought (and probably still do think) about Karl Barth, check this poo poo out: http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2014/03/classic-ichabod-karl-barths-uoj-smells.html quote:Here ve haff da luffly Barth family, Karl mit Charlotte, und Kinder, und Frau Barth way over on da outside right. Das machen me schniffle ein bischen. Zo touching und varm. Der kleine Hans hat two mommies - eine Hausfrau und eine va-va-voom Commie. [Translated into German to keep the caption G-rated.]"
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Dec 9, 2016 22:35
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The Phlegmatist posted:Well, Kung's been barred from teaching since the 60s so he's not really in good standing. This had little to do with reconciliation of Lutheran and Catholic theology regarding the doctrine of justification and more to do with the fact that Kung denied papal infallibility. Kung's got some big balls attacking both Karl Barth and the fuckin' pope. That's why I said he was in "OK-ish" standing. I didn't explain what I meant there (biecoz Lutha gud riter) but I was thinking exactly about the teaching thing. He got banned from being an official, Church-approved teacher, but (from what I've read) he continued to teach at another university, and he didn't get defrocked (or worse). At the very least, he didn't get as harsh of a punishment as certain other people who have published ideas critical of Catholic teachings 
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Dec 9, 2016 22:45
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:So I just spent the last 15 minutes reading through Karl Barth's Wikipedia page and he seems like a confessor after my own heart, especially given my upbringing. What kind of horrifying strain of Lutheranism thinks WELS is too liberal? Sheesh.
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Dec 9, 2016 23:29
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The Phlegmatist posted:What kind of horrifying strain of Lutheranism thinks WELS is too liberal? Sheesh. I don't know but it's producing some quality photoshops. But they only make sense if you come from those circles.  "Buchie" is short for Buchwald, a district president in the WELS. Ecclesiastical equivalent to a Roman archbishop I guess you could say. The blog is kind of an alt-right haven for ex-pats of the various Lutheran synods in America. It's a lot of hate and sour grapes peppered with real concerns about universal objective justification (UOJ)
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Dec 10, 2016 00:04
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What does Thrivent have to do with that, exactly?  P.S. For those of you who don't know: Thrivent Financial is a non-profit, fraternal-benefit company in America, the kind that offers insurance, investment services, disability products, etc. It was created when two older Lutheran benefit societies merged. Originally, to join it you were required to be Lutheran or have some connection to the Lutheran church. A couple years ago this was relaxed to include all Christians. Lutha Mahtin fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Dec 10, 2016 |
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Dec 10, 2016 01:52
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:I don't know but it's producing some quality photoshops. But they only make sense if you come from those circles. I'm the fat stormtrooper. Since it's the season, tell me about the deeds of Saint Nicholas. The only things I've heard outside of Christmas jingles is from a dead Let's Play where I learned that he's associated with Norway and sea voyages.
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Dec 10, 2016 20:01
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SirPhoebos posted:I'm the fat stormtrooper. - was one of the council fathers of Nicea and literally punched Arius in the face - resurrected three children after they had been killed by a butcher who wanted to sell them off as ham - resurrected a sailor when he traveled to the Holy Land - helped three young girls out by giving them money to they wouldn't have to resort to prostitution - forensic research showed that he was very short at only five feet and had a broken nose (maybe Arius punched back?) - in Catholic iconography he is commonly depicted with three balls of gold, symbolising the donations he gave to the three girls. In the medieval Low Countries, people assumed that the balls must be oranges, and because oranges back then grew in Spain they concluded that St Nicholas must be a Spaniard too
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Dec 10, 2016 20:12
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System Metternich posted:- was one of the council fathers of Nicea and literally punched Arius in the face I was taught that St Nicholas didn't punch Arius per se, but rather open palm slapped him, a sign of accusation of guilt. Kinda like the rending of garment, except someone's face is the garment.
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Dec 10, 2016 20:42
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:So I just spent the last 15 minutes reading through Karl Barth's Wikipedia page and he seems like a confessor after my own heart, especially given my upbringing. Hahaha, oh my god. Thank you for linking this blog. As a ex-WELS person, I'm getting a kick out of the pastor who confirmed me being referred to as the "Jar Jar Binks of the WELS"
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Dec 10, 2016 20:57
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Schmeichy posted:Hahaha, oh my god. Thank you for linking this blog. As a ex-WELS person, I'm getting a kick out of the pastor who confirmed me being referred to as the "Jar Jar Binks of the WELS" it's always good to see the proud tradition of Lutheran shitposting continues (referring to the blog and not your post) Are there seriously groups within American Lutheranism who dispute the idea that Jesus' death on the cross provided justification for all humans (who only need to accept it through faith)? Because for me that seems to dive way deep into the rabbit hole of Calvinism, but I dunno. I don't mean that question as a jab against JKL or anyone else, again this is a thread about learning from viewpoints different than yours and posting silly hats. Justification by faith alone seems to tread into Arminianism where your personal choice plays a role in salvation. e: I guess my understanding of Lutheran theology is that justification is offered to all people as a result of Jesus' sacrifice and God's grace, all you have to do is accept that gift via faith. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Dec 10, 2016 |
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Dec 10, 2016 23:25
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iirc lutherans are neither calvinist nor arminian at digging up good sources on this rn though
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Dec 11, 2016 04:38
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Pellisworth posted:it's always good to see the proud tradition of Lutheran shitposting continues (referring to the blog and not your post) They posit further that one "cannot by my own thinking or choosing believe in Jesus Christ" so I guess if anything they veer more towards Calvinism. They would much rather say the Holy Spirit works faith in you after you hear the Word than say you accepted the Holy Spirit in any sense.
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Dec 11, 2016 07:12
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matthew heimbach in the news again. reminder that we excommunicated him for white supremacy. that fat son of a bitch does not deserve to wear what he's got around his neck. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/10/u...WT.nav=top-news
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Dec 11, 2016 13:32
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HEY GAL posted:matthew heimbach in the news again. reminder that we excommunicated him for white supremacy. that fat son of a bitch does not deserve to wear what he's got around his neck. Is it okay to say that I feel sorry for the child in all this?
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Dec 11, 2016 18:59
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Josef bugman posted:Is it okay to say that I feel sorry for the child in all this? edit: the child has a powerful patron saint though (Nicholas), who will I hope be on his side in the years to come, and maybe get him out of the shitshow his parents have created for him. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Dec 11, 2016 |
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Dec 11, 2016 19:03
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HEY GAL posted:it's worse to be the oppressor than the oppressed, *Liberation theology intensifying*
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Dec 11, 2016 23:13
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HEY GAL posted:yeah. i feel sorry for everyone in this, since they're all deluded into believing trash. it's worse to be the oppressor than the oppressed, since the oppressed are doing no damage to their own souls and morality while these people are doing the religious equivalent of cutting their own wrists. This mindset is so alien to me. I'm perversely motivated by the expectation that selfishness and tyranny have the advantage in nearly every respect and that being a good person is alike to spiting the universe for working the way it does. One of my favorite things I've encountered in this thread is that story about the old woman who wants to quench Hell and tear down the gates of Heaven.
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Dec 11, 2016 23:34
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could i ask for everyone's prayers? this is the second weekend in a row that i've been too ill to go to Mass, and it's making me really miserable not to be able to be in the presence of God and partake of the Sacrament. maybe some prayers to the patron saint of flu bugs, or perhaps to St. Christopher, since i almost certainly caught this thing in the course of my Thanksgiving travels
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Dec 12, 2016 00:39
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