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Franchescanado posted:Read a Play Ugh, can we not? Plays just don't translate well to reading silently by yourself. Franchescanado posted:Read a book published the year you were born. This is a great idea!
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Dec 8, 2016 16:37
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Franchescanado posted:Read a Play These are good, I think it'd be cool to expand poetry to like 3 or 4 categories, like, idk, contemporary, mid 20th century, English romanticism, old, etc. people do not read enough poetry and it's embarrassing.
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Dec 8, 2016 16:37
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Dienes posted:Ugh, can we not? Plays just don't translate well to reading silently by yourself. A little silly to say, since reading a play is no different than reading a book, other than format. You still have to use your imagination, there's just more up to the reader's interpretation. Or pick a play with a small cast of characters, like Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf, and get three other friends to sit down and do a reading. Or read the play and then see a performance/watch it online. There's a lot of solutions, all of them manageable. There are a lot of great plays to experience, but going to a theater isn't always viable, and severely limits selection. Edit: Plays are also meant to be performed in one sitting, so reading them is an efficient use of time, especially for people trying to cram 52+ books a year.
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Dec 8, 2016 16:55
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david crosby posted:These are good, I think it'd be cool to expand poetry to like 3 or 4 categories, like, idk, contemporary, mid 20th century, English romanticism, old, etc. people do not read enough poetry and it's embarrassing. I was thinking of doing a big "stupid idiots intro to poetry" thread at some point but idk if I can be bothered
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Dec 8, 2016 17:01
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CestMoi posted:I was thinking of doing a big "stupid idiots intro to poetry" thread at some point but idk if I can be bothered Please do. I just started reading some poetry in the last year and some of it I really liked and some I was just baffled by, I need my giant baby hand held.
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Dec 8, 2016 17:06
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CestMoi posted:I was thinking of doing a big "stupid idiots intro to poetry" thread at some point but idk if I can be bothered I think you should. Someone needs to. The big problem I see for people reading poetry is not knowing where to go. People only know the big names, mainly old white American dudes, and don't want to be bothered. They also don't want to take risks on new poets. Libraries and bookstores have limited shelf-space for poetry. Poetry anthologies are crap-shoots of varying qualities. The only modern poet people seem to be able to name is Billy Collins.
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Dec 8, 2016 17:11
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Franchescanado posted:I think you should. Someone needs to. The big problem I see for people reading poetry is not knowing where to go. People only know the big names, mainly old white American dudes, and don't want to be bothered. They also don't want to take risks on new poets. Libraries and bookstores have limited shelf-space for poetry. Poetry anthologies are crap-shoots of varying qualities. The only modern poet people seem to be able to name is Billy Collins. The very first poet I read was Anne Carson who rules but I don't know how to find stuff like that, I did also read a "Best American poetry" anthology and had a note card for awhile of poets whose stuff I liked but otherwise I am lost in a see of old white men poetry
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Dec 8, 2016 17:30
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Franchescanado posted:The only modern poet people seem to be able to name is Billy Collins. Kinda makes sense when no living poets are good IMO. But a lack of poetry knowledge in general is still a problem.
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Dec 8, 2016 18:15
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CestMoi posted:I was thinking of doing a big "stupid idiots intro to poetry" thread at some point but idk if I can be bothered Do it.
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Dec 8, 2016 18:55
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Franchescanado posted:A little silly to say, since reading a play is no different than reading a book, other than format. You still have to use your imagination, there's just more up to the reader's interpretation. Or pick a play with a small cast of characters, like Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf, and get three other friends to sit down and do a reading. Or read the play and then see a performance/watch it online. There's a lot of solutions, all of them manageable. There are a lot of great plays to experience, but going to a theater isn't always viable, and severely limits selection. Plays are written to be performed with direction, not read like a book or poem. Its not just a formatting/interpretation issue - its how they are written. I've just never found reading a play to be a satisfying experience (and finding enough people willing to do a reading and do it well enough that its actually enjoyable is easier said than done) and I've tried reading a good 5-6 play scripts at this point. I'd rather skip reading the play and skip directly to watching it (online if necessary), as it is meant to be consumed.  Throw it in the reading challenge, but I'm skipping that one. Have we had a reading challenge that had "Book with female main character" or "Xenofiction/Non-human perspective"?
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Dec 8, 2016 19:01
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Dienes posted:Have we had a reading challenge that had "Book with female main character" or "Xenofiction/Non-human perspective"? We sort of had it with the animal thing this year but I don't think it was as explicit as that.
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Dec 8, 2016 19:28
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Dienes posted:Plays are written to be performed with direction, not read like a book or poem. Its not just a formatting/interpretation issue - its how they are written. I've just never found reading a play to be a satisfying experience (and finding enough people willing to do a reading and do it well enough that its actually enjoyable is easier said than done) and I've tried reading a good 5-6 play scripts at this point. I'd rather skip reading the play and skip directly to watching it (online if necessary), as it is meant to be consumed. This has been an argument for at least, like, two centuries, going back to Charles Lamb bitching about how the mooks who perform Shakespeare's tragedies never live up to the characters in his imagination. I'm firmly in the camp of "plays are mostly better in your head." I mean, look at that movie adaptation of "The Importance of Being Earnest" with Reese Witherspoon and Colin Firth. Horrible. Or the Broadway production of "Arcadia," supposedly by professionals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCCnBsLUSBU They're sitting across the table from each other! Why is that girl shrieking her lines??? Anything a little bit subtle or complex is better read, at least the first time. I mean, sure, hell, anything by Tennessee Williams or Arthur Miller are almost always going to be better adapted, but that's because "Streetcar" and "Salesman" are loving dull from line to line and only get their power in retrospect, from their events and emotional heft, not from details of style or ambiguity or wordplay. Watching an actor ham up Shakespeare or Wilde or Stoppard is painful.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:32
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Huh, i loved reading Death of a Salesman, and I'm not planning to have my good impression spoiled by watching a stage adaptation. So i guess i agree with you in principle?
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Dec 8, 2016 22:11
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Dienes posted:Plays are written to be performed with direction, not read like a book or poem. Its not just a formatting/interpretation issue - its how they are written. I've just never found reading a play to be a satisfying experience (and finding enough people willing to do a reading and do it well enough that its actually enjoyable is easier said than done) and I've tried reading a good 5-6 play scripts at this point. I'd rather skip reading the play and skip directly to watching it (online if necessary), as it is meant to be consumed. at the date posted:This has been an argument for at least, like, two centuries, going back to Charles Lamb bitching about how the mooks who perform Shakespeare's tragedies never live up to the characters in his imagination. I'm firmly in the camp of "plays are mostly better in your head." I mean, look at that movie adaptation of "The Importance of Being Earnest" with Reese Witherspoon and Colin Firth. Horrible. Or the Broadway production of "Arcadia," supposedly by professionals: Again, I can't help but feel there's a flaw in the logic of "Plays are meant to be performed, not read." It's not like the actors are calling previous actors to find out how to play the character, the directors aren't watching other director's adaptations, the producers aren't studying production notes,. They read the drat play quite a few times, and experience the story with their imagination, then looking into the best way to adapt it. But you don't need the middle man if you just read the play. Yes, an actor or director may be inspired by something that you won't see/read, and the production may shed new light on the text for you, but that's still from them reading the text. If you have difficulty enjoying the story by reading a play, I don't know how you can handle novels, and screenplays may just drive you bonkers.
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Dec 8, 2016 22:15
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yes, let's disregard reading plays because clearly it's way better to spend upwards of $500 to see like five plays, assuming you're lucky enought that all the plays you want to experience are staged nearby.
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Dec 8, 2016 22:29
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Franchescanado posted:It's not like the actors are calling previous actors to find out how to play the character, the directors aren't watching other director's adaptations, the producers aren't studying production notes. They do, though? Franchescanado posted:If you have difficulty enjoying the story by reading a play, I don't know how you can handle novels Novels have more context and actual prose. You don't see a difference between prose describing how characters move and stage direction? One is more evocative and contextually rich. Franchescanado posted:screenplays may just drive you bonkers. Oh God, yes. ulvir posted:yes, let's disregard reading plays because clearly it's way better to spend upwards of $500 to see like five plays, assuming you're lucky enought that all the plays you want to experience are staged nearby. Yes, that is exactly what I said to do .  I said let's not make it a requirement to read one play (especially since that was already done last year). And, if you are in a pinch and are just too broke or unlucky to catch a play live, there is always YouTube for the desperate. But apparently enjoyment of reading plays is going to be mandatory.
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Dec 8, 2016 22:54
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Dienes posted:They do, though? What if it's the first adaptation? The first performance? You're being willfully obtuse because you can't be bothered to read a 200 page book that will be finished in (arguably) a few hours. Dienes posted:Novels have more context and actual prose. You don't see a difference between prose describing how characters move and stage direction? One is more evocative and contextually rich. The text of plays are formatted for dialogue-driven stories with direct action and repercussions of a set context. They rely on the reader's involvement of building the story in their mind and "negative space" reading. Everything is minimal so the reader gets to build the story themselves. Dienes posted:But apparently enjoyment of reading plays is going to be mandatory. These challenges are self-imposed, and in no-way mandatory. If you don't want to read a play, that's fine, be obstinate. But the idea isn't to design a reading challenge around want Dienes wants, it's to get people to read things they don't normally. If you're going to be obstinate, do it on your own time, stop being selfish.
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Dec 8, 2016 23:07
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Next OP should make a custom challenge for Dienes which is just "1. Read a play 2. Read a play ..." 26 times in a row
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Dec 8, 2016 23:17
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It's gotten us more discussion than the rest of the year so gently caress it.
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Dec 8, 2016 23:23
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I like the idea of having it in the challenge because I'd be unlikely to pick up a play otherwise. Same with poetry.
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Dec 9, 2016 00:30
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I probably would not read a play or poetry, so I would skip booklord if they were in.
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Dec 9, 2016 00:54
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I think I am at 135 right now. I want to get to 140, but I am. It going to sweat it. I did manage to read the 45 Robert B Parker (and later Ace Atkins) Spenser novels, which I am a little proud of. I gotta look up all the details later.
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Dec 9, 2016 00:59
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I am neither going to meet my goal of 52 or finish the Read Harder challenge, but I enjoyed everything I read this year and already beat last year's total by 10.
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Dec 9, 2016 01:06
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Rusty posted:I probably would not read a play or poetry, so I would skip booklord if they were in. Why not? I'm earnestly asking.
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Dec 9, 2016 01:27
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david crosby posted:Why not? I'm earnestly asking. Edit: I wish I had a better answer, I am just kind of stubborn on what kind of books I read these days. Rusty fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 01:39
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Rusty posted:I am pretty open to reading, I have read so many different books this year, in part thanks to booklord, but I am just generally not interested in either one. I have dabbled in both, and maybe I could do poetry if it were in the form of fiction (I have read a couple books this year that would qualify) but for some reason normal poetry books bore me to death and I just can't get in to reading plays. I can't remember the last time I tried, but I decided I wouldn't try again. Right now though, I can barely tolerate non-fiction though so maybe it's just a phase where I just want straight literary fiction (or just a good fiction story). I just can't stand poetry... well, maybe some epic poetry, but that's a whole different animal.
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Dec 9, 2016 02:30
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Rusty posted:I am pretty open to reading, I have read so many different books this year, in part thanks to booklord, but I am just generally not interested in either one. I have dabbled in both, and maybe I could do poetry if it were in the form of fiction (I have read a couple books this year that would qualify) but for some reason normal poetry books bore me to death and I just can't get in to reading plays. I can't remember the last time I tried, but I decided I wouldn't try again. Right now though, I can barely tolerate non-fiction though so maybe it's just a phase where I just want straight literary fiction (or just a good fiction story). I think, to respond to your reasons & concerns, that plays, at least, usually have a good fiction story. So now you want to read them. Poetry is harder, although there's narrative poetry. I think it's one of those things where u just have to do it. Poetry is a big part of the human experience, and there's lots of different styles, some is really easy 2 read. For me it's an essential thing. It would be weird and stupid to go through life without listening to a symphony, or watching a movie, or riding in a go kart, and it's the same for poetry. I know you've read poetry and just didn't like it, But, if you keep giving it a go, you'll eventually like it and want to read more, and then wonder why you didn't like it in the first place, your life will be richer & more enjoyable, etc.
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Dec 9, 2016 02:52
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If someone gives me a good play to read, I'll give it 100 pages. It just seemed like when I tried it the last time, the format didn't work well in book form. Obviously people disagree so I am willing to try it again. I don't know about poetry though. I know I should appreciate it, it's just about the least interesting thing in writing I can think of.
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Dec 9, 2016 03:03
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Telling people to read plays is the best way to convince them that plays are universally poo poo.
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Dec 9, 2016 03:10
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The point of the Booklord Challenge is to get you reading outside your comfort zone. So if your thought is "I don't already like reading stuff from all of the categories so I'm not going to do the challenge" I think you're kind of missing the point of it to begin with. If you just want to set an arbitrary number of books from categories you already enjoy, and write them down in a list, you can just do that on Goodreads. idk just my opinion
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Dec 9, 2016 06:21
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Well two things: I finished it this year and enjoyed it. It isn't an actual category yet, I was just saying I don't enjoy poetry or plays, I had no problem with the last one. People were taking suggestions and I gave my opinion on it.
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Dec 9, 2016 06:54
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Would anyone be interested in putting together a shortlist of plays or poetry which might be easier to get into? If it goes in it'd be nice to have something to point to and say "this is a good place to start" instead of just leaving people to fend for themselves.
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Dec 9, 2016 11:17
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I'm beginning to doubt your suitability for lordship over the printed page
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Dec 9, 2016 13:36
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A human heart posted:I'm beginning to doubt your suitability for lordship over the printed page Good delegation is the primary skill of management
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Dec 9, 2016 13:55
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Corrode posted:Would anyone be interested in putting together a shortlist of plays or poetry which might be easier to get into? If it goes in it'd be nice to have something to point to and say "this is a good place to start" instead of just leaving people to fend for themselves. I'll make a play list soon
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Dec 9, 2016 14:32
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If plays are a category again I'll probably read something by Henrik Ibsen since it's been a while and he was probably the greatest literary figure Norway has ever spawned. Plus he was funny as poo poo at times.
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Dec 9, 2016 16:17
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The Berzerker posted:The point of the Booklord Challenge is to get you reading outside your comfort zone. So if your thought is "I don't already like reading stuff from all of the categories so I'm not going to do the challenge" I think you're kind of missing the point of it to begin with. If you just want to set an arbitrary number of books from categories you already enjoy, and write them down in a list, you can just do that on Goodreads. idk just my opinion Yeah, I don't really want to read poetry or plays, but before doing the challenge this year, I hadn't read anything other than sci-fi/fantasy in several years (and not much of that either). Reading different things this year has been great, and I'm willing to admit that I need a little outside encouragement to step outside my lazy comfort zone. I've started thinking about what I could read, but I haven't really touched poetry since school, so I wouldn't know where to start.
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Dec 9, 2016 16:27
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PLAYS TO TRY GREEK Aeschylus – The Oresteia Aristophanes – Lyistrata Euripides – Medea Sophocles – The Oedipus Cycle AFRICAN Benjamin Kent (Ghana) – The Bus Samwel Soko Osebe (Kenya) -- The New Bwana Atwine Bashir Kenneth (Uganda) – Dear Mother Stanley Makuw (Zimbabwe) – The Coup Wole Soyinka (Nigeria) – Death and the King's Horseman; The Lion and the Jewel; A Play of Giants; The Swamp Dwellers NORWEGIAN Henrick Ibsen – A Doll's House; An Enemy of the People; Ghosts; Hedda Gabler FRENCH/ BRITISH-FRENCH Samuel Beckett – Waiting for Godot Eugene Ionesco - Rhinoceros Moliere – The Misanthrope Yasmina Reza – God of Carnage Jean-Paul Sartre – No Exit ITALIAN Ezio D'Errico -- The Anthill; Time of the Locusts Dario Fo – Accidental Death of an Anarchist Carlo Gozzi – The Green Bird Niccolo Machiavelli – The Mandrake Luigi Pirandello – Six Characters In Search of an Author RUSSIAN Anton Chekov -- The Seagull; Three Sisters; The Cherry Orchard; Uncle Vanya; Ivanov Nikolai Gogol -- The Government Inspector; Diary of a Madman Natalia Pelevine -- I Plead Guilty Alexander Pushkin -- Eugene Onegin AUSTRALIAN Andrew Bovell -- Speaking in Tongues (Lantana) Jimmy Chi -- Bran Nue Dae Nick Enright & Justin Monjo -- Cloudstreet Michael Gow -- Away Steven Herrick -- The Simple Gift Dorothy Hewett -- The Man from Mukinupin Ray Lawler -- Summer of the Seventeeth Doll Tommy Murphy -- Holding the Man Louis Nowra -- Cosi David Williamson -- Don's Party BRITISH Aphra Behn – Oroonoko Jez Butterworth – Jerusalem Caryl Churchill – Cloud 9; Top Girls William Congreve – The Way of the World George Etherege -The Man of Mode Michael Frayn – Noises Off Brian Friel – Dancing at Lughnasa; Translations Christopher Fry – The Lady's Not for Burning Oliver Goldsmith – She Stoops to Conquer Ben Jonson – Volpone Christopher Marlowe – Doctor Faustus Harold Pinter – The Homecoming Nina Raine -- Tribes Peter Shaffer – Equus George Bernard Shaw – Major Barbara, Mrs. Warren's Professions; Saint Joan Richard Brinsley Sheridan – The Rivals Richard Steele – The Conscious Lovers Tom Stoppard – Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead; Arcadia John Millington Synge – The Playboy of the Western World; Riders to the Sea Oscar Wilde – Lady Windermere's Fan, The Importance of Being Earnest William Wycherley – The Country Wife AMERICAN Edward Albee – Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf, The Zoo Story, The Goat Annie Baker – Circle Mirror Transformation Alan Bennett – The History Boys Julia Cho - BFE Margaret Edson – Wit David Feldshuh – Miss Evers' Boys Susan Glaspell -- Trifles Prince Gomolvilas – The Theory of Everything Stephen Adly Guirgis – The Lasy Days of Judas Iscariot Lorraine Hansberry – A Raisin in the Sun Lillian Hellman – The Little Foxes,Toys in the Attic, Watch on the Rhine Amy Herzog – 4000 Miles David Henry Hwang – M. Butterfly Denis Johnson – Soul of a Whore, Purvis Rajiv Joseph – Bengal Tiger at the Baghdad Zoo Larry Kramer – The Normal Heart Tony Kushner – Angels In America Jerome Lawrence & Robert Edwin Lee – Inherit The Wind Tracy Letts – August: Osage County John Logan -- Red Archibald MacLeish – J.B. David Mamet – American Buffalo, Glengarry Glen Ross, Oleanna, Speed the Plow Arthur Miller – All My Sons , The Crucible Martin McDonagh – The Pillowman Marsha Norman – 'night, Mother Eugene O'Neill – Desire Under the Elms; Long Day's Journey Into The Night; Mourning Becomes Electra John Pielmeier – Agnes of God Paul Rudnick -- Jeffrey John Patrick Shanley – Doubt Diana Son – Stop Kiss Paula Vogel – The Baltimore Waltz; How I Learned To Drive Wendy Wasserstein – Uncommon Women and Others Thornton Wilder – Our Town August Wilson -- Fences; Joe Turner's Come and Gone; Ma Rainey's Black Bottom; The Piano Lesson Tennessee Williams – Cat on a Hot Tin Roof; The Glass Menagerie; The Night of the Iguanas SHAKESPEARE Antony and Cleopatra As You Like It Hamlet Henry IV, Parts I and II Henry V King Lear Macbeth The Merchant of Venice A Midsummer Night's Dream Much Ado About Nothing Othello Richard III Romeo and Juliet The Tempest Titus Andronicus I tried to keep with a lot of variety. I know the American section is large, but it's the biggest mix of genre, sexual orientation, gender, race, availability, modern/classics, awards, etc. Apologies for not being able to include noteworthy works from more countries in an attempt at ease, brevity and time efficiency.
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Dec 9, 2016 17:09
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Yeah that's ideal, thanks.
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Dec 9, 2016 17:36
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It's a cool list but I don't think it's necessarily the best thing for a person who is like "I have no idea what plays to read" and you run in like "here's literally 50 plays that exist"
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Dec 9, 2016 17:42
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