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What does it not being part of the piste matter for? What's the loophole? Does the lateral boundary technically stop at the end line?
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Nov 30, 2016 20:02
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dupersaurus posted:What does it not being part of the piste matter for? What's the loophole? Does the lateral boundary technically stop at the end line? That's the point. It might seem a matter of common sense, but there's nothing written about it on the rulebook. Most fencers, even world-class ones, only "know" the rules when they work in their favor, especially when they're being ref'd by a friendly-looking skinny twenty-something year old guy. It was one of the most satisfying yellow cards I've ever issued
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Nov 30, 2016 20:19
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Wait, what's the argument here? That if you go off-piste exactly diagonally, you step over neither the side nor the back, and therefore go neither off the piste nor a metre backwards (and off the piste)? What do they expect does happen? 
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Nov 30, 2016 20:45
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Future Days posted:That's the point. It might seem a matter of common sense, but there's nothing written about it on the rulebook. Most fencers, even world-class ones, only "know" the rules when they work in their favor, especially when they're being ref'd by a friendly-looking skinny twenty-something year old guy. It was one of the most satisfying yellow cards I've ever issued Ah, now it makes sense. It's stupid, but it makes sense. Siivola posted:Wait, what's the argument here? That if you go off-piste exactly diagonally, you step over neither the side nor the back, and therefore go neither off the piste nor a metre backwards (and off the piste)? If the lateral boundary ends at the end line, then you can have one foot off of the end line (which is allowed), and move it laterally to where ever since the lateral boundary no longer exists.
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Nov 30, 2016 20:49
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Siivola posted:Wait, what's the argument here? That if you go off-piste exactly diagonally, you step over neither the side nor the back, and therefore go neither off the piste nor a metre backwards (and off the piste)? Exactly. Their argument is that, since the run off section isn't a part of the piste according to the rulebook, they didn't leave the lateral boundaries. Some fencers and coaches (*cough* Russians) will defend this to death just to avoid getting touched or carded.
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Nov 30, 2016 20:51
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That's the dumbest loving thing Jesus.
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Nov 30, 2016 20:52
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Okay, yeah, I can sort of see it.  That's pretty dumb, though.
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Nov 30, 2016 20:53
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Speaking of warnings,...In kendo there's a string running on top of the shinai (sword), holding the leather pieces together and indicating the opposite site if the 'cutting' side. Now, this can occasionally become slightly twisted and in general practice, you just grab it and twist it back. In a match, however, you need to signal for stopping and ask permission to do so and you are not allowed to signal for a stoppage without an adequate reason. This means that a it's not uncommon for people to ask for a stoppage, primarily for psychological reasons and ask to adjust their shinai. It gives them a sense of control, a small period of time to re-focus, etc, whereas the opponent is often annoyed by the stoppage. Most of the time, there is absolutely nothing wrong with their shinai, but no one seems to enforce this.. Except one match, I had enough of it. I had watched one guy do it every match after he scored a point and in his next match I was head referee. He scored a point (Matches are best of 3 points, format is a straight knock-out, so points are rare and important!) and right on cue, when I restarted the match, he stuck his hand up. I stopped the match, asked him what was wrong and he pointed at his shinai. I looked at it and it was perfectly straight. I told him that I saw nothing wrong with it and please don't stop the match without a valid reason. The evil glare I got was worth the whole event. His little petty mental control game had been busted and he knew it.
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Nov 30, 2016 21:03
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I once had to ask a referee for a halt right at the allez because my knee legitimately spasmed out as I leaned into on guard position. The other fencer gave me the dirtiest look, like if I wasn't about to die on the strip there was no reason to stop the bout. I admittedly felt pretty bad about it at the time but it was really no different than stopping for a mask failure or whatever.
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Nov 30, 2016 22:05
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Yeah, I'd want to call it as if the lateral boundary extended infinitely along the sides of the piste, good on you for not taking that kind of pedantry. I'm sure this is the intent of the rules, even if the wording is unclear.
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Nov 30, 2016 22:52
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Oh, Torino's foil GP is this weekend. Live stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7SlL1P59kc Edit: This time it's bearded reenactors. With no face protection. 
Siivola fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Dec 3, 2016 |
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Dec 3, 2016 14:13
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Hi guys, I just got into HEMA and have been attending classes at a local club for about 3 months. So far I've been using the club's loaner synthetics but I'd like to move up to steel. Does anyone have experience with Pavel Moc feders? I understand that they are fairly lengthy and heavy compared to other feders. I'm 5'8" but I don't think the weight would bother me as much. Mr. Moc has been the most responsive of the feder crafters I've contacted and his timeline is pretty reasonable (2 months). I was wondering if maybe I could ask him to shorten the handle and blade length a little but I'm not sure if that would adversely affect the handling or make it unwieldy. Any advice or recommendations? Thanks!
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Dec 4, 2016 02:43
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Unzip and Attack posted:Hi guys, I literally just graduated my Longsword 1 class today so take this with a grain of salt, but I think that at 5'8", I think those would be too long for you. There are "mini" Mocs, at 53", which might be the right size. How long are the synthetics you've been using? My club has a few mini Mocs that they are selling for $400.
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Dec 4, 2016 03:59
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Sent you a PM Uziel re: those shorter Pavel Moc swords. Thanks!
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Dec 4, 2016 06:43
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hMRJ-K0gn4 I love Sydney Sabre Centre's videos.  In related news, singlestick is the best party game in the world and everyone itt should invest in a stick and a basket. Yes, even you fitties in your white pants.
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Dec 4, 2016 11:33
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Siivola posted:Oh, Torino's foil GP is this weekend. Live stream: Stayed up last night to watch baldini v massialas, it was sad to see him taken out like that. However the match between the two Italians (poo poo, I forget who exactly) was amazing in terms of arguing with the ref, getting carded, generally being douchebags and finishing with one guy thinking he'd passed, stopping fencing, getting hit, then yelling "no no no!" in despair when he realises the bout hadn't stopped
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Dec 5, 2016 04:55
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Crazy Achmed posted:Stayed up last night to watch baldini v massialas, it was sad to see him taken out like that. However the match between the two Italians (poo poo, I forget who exactly) was amazing in terms of arguing with the ref, getting carded, generally being douchebags and finishing with one guy thinking he'd passed, stopping fencing, getting hit, then yelling "no no no!" in despair when he realises the bout hadn't stopped  An FIE ref I know says that you don't explain to Italians with facts but with feelings "I FEEL like you where in preparation", "I FEEL like you didn't register that touch, touche point", etc
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Dec 5, 2016 11:44
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HEMA person here. I'm not normally an aggressive person at all, and I'm nearly to the point where I can register for fights, with the eventual goal being tournaments. There is an emphasis in the source material that we are taught from about taking initiative in a fight, and aggressiveness (the vorschlag). Is this just something that's going to come with time or can I somehow develop this? In overhearing talks from some of veterans at my school, I hear many of them say "X is so good because he can turn on his aggression due to his military experience and that's hard for me".
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Dec 5, 2016 16:43
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It's less aggression and more assertiveness, I think. Here's an inspirational quote from MS.3227a:quote:Also know, when one wants to fence in earnest, he should plan a ready technique, whichever he like, and that technique should be complete and well-practiced. And he should take this seriously into his mind and will, just if he should say “That I want to do”. And then he must gain the initiative and with the help of God it will not fail. He succeeds in doing what he should do, if he bravely hurries and rushes in with the Vorschlag; about that you will later hear often. Once it clicks, it becomes this positive reinforcement loop where you try things, realize they actually work and get inspired to try more things. So basically you learn it by fencing a lot, with different people.
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Dec 5, 2016 17:00
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Crazy Achmed posted:Stayed up last night to watch baldini v massialas, it was sad to see him taken out like that. However the match between the two Italians (poo poo, I forget who exactly) was amazing in terms of arguing with the ref, getting carded, generally being douchebags and finishing with one guy thinking he'd passed, stopping fencing, getting hit, then yelling "no no no!" in despair when he realises the bout hadn't stopped Italian sportsmen: not necessarily the best, but always the most entertaining. See also cycling, football.
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Dec 5, 2016 17:30
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Uziel posted:HEMA person here. I'm not normally an aggressive person at all, and I'm nearly to the point where I can register for fights, with the eventual goal being tournaments. There is an emphasis in the source material that we are taught from about taking initiative in a fight, and aggressiveness (the vorschlag). Is this just something that's going to come with time or can I somehow develop this? In overhearing talks from some of veterans at my school, I hear many of them say "X is so good because he can turn on his aggression due to his military experience and that's hard for me". Seizing the vor is something a lot of students struggle with, especially when they're new. Some people just have it in them, others need to work on it. Here's a few tips as someone who has struggled with seizing the vor: 1. Do vor drills. Here's a great drill: have three students in a group, A, B, and C. B is flanked by A and C. A and C assume different stances, and B will turn to face one of them and apply the "correct" master strike against that stance. B will then immediately turn and do the same against the other student, while the first student now assumes a different stance. Try and have B do this as many times as possible for a set period of time, then rotate students. It's great for stamina, but also great at ingraining the idea that certain strikes work best against certain stances. 2. Don't be afraid to get hit in sparring and go for it. It's ok to gently caress up in a sparring match. It doesn't matter who wins or loses. Try new things, get hit, try and figure out why you're getting hit (discuss with your sparring partner, or have another student watch your fight). 3. Sell your attacks. Make your opponent fear you. This doesn't mean swinging as hard as possible, this means making it seem like you're about to swing as hard as you possibly can. High vom tag exists for a reason. 4. Find entries that work for you and learn how to set them up. For me being a left handed person, I have a great outside thrust to open-armed ochs. I use it when my opponent starts moving backwards, when I'm at the optimal distance, and when their is sword moving away from me, or they're in a weak, off-centered longpoint. 5. Remember that the vor does not mean the beginning of the fight. It means initial action during inaction. Your opponent isn't doing anything, you're not doing anything, then the vor is up for grabs. Take it before your opponent does.
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Dec 6, 2016 05:48
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Siivola posted:It's less aggression and more assertiveness, I think. Here's an inspirational quote from MS.3227a: Verisimilidude posted:Seizing the vor is something a lot of students struggle with, especially when they're new. Some people just have it in them, others need to work on it. Here's a few tips as someone who has struggled with seizing the vor:
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Dec 6, 2016 15:12
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Uziel posted:Ha, yeah I was reading that quote when I realized I should ask. I do understand that it's going to be simply putting in the work of fencing as many people as I can, but wanted to also work on it specifically. For what its worth the whole Liechtenauer concept of time (Vor, Nach, Indes) implies as Verrsimilidude mentions actually achieving the optimal moment of 'initiative'. Achieving the 'Vor' for the sake of going first isn't advantageous unless you've also executed it in the correct indes (moment of opportunity). This often means making savvy use of aggression to bait your opponent into opening themselves up in such a way that you can safely make a vorschlag without risk of getting taken advantage of.
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Dec 6, 2016 15:56
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DandyLion posted:For what its worth the whole Liechtenauer concept of time (Vor, Nach, Indes) implies as Verrsimilidude mentions actually achieving the optimal moment of 'initiative'. Achieving the 'Vor' for the sake of going first isn't advantageous unless you've also executed it in the correct indes (moment of opportunity). This often means making savvy use of aggression to bait your opponent into opening themselves up in such a way that you can safely make a vorschlag without risk of getting taken advantage of.
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Dec 6, 2016 16:59
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Uziel posted:Ha, yeah I was reading that quote when I realized I should ask. I do understand that it's going to be simply putting in the work of fencing as many people as I can, but wanted to also work on it specifically. Selling your strikes is super important, and something you unfortunately don't see a lot of in HEMA. It's a major concept in JSA, which is where I'm learning it from, and a basic exercise for this is to literally have people practice making themselves look more aggressive either 1v1 or in front of a mirror. It seems silly at first, but you'll get the hang of it. At higher levels you'll learn how to make yourself seem weak or passive in order to generate a more aggressive response rather than a defensive one.
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Dec 6, 2016 20:31
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Verisimilidude posted:Selling your strikes is super important, and something you unfortunately don't see a lot of in HEMA. It's a major concept in JSA, which is where I'm learning it from, and a basic exercise for this is to literally have people practice making themselves look more aggressive either 1v1 or in front of a mirror. It seems silly at first, but you'll get the hang of it. At higher levels you'll learn how to make yourself seem weak or passive in order to generate a more aggressive response rather than a defensive one. It's not about looking aggressive, but looking ready. Ready to strike at any moment. Putting on an angry face isn't enough. It's about moving with confidence and purpose. The single best thing you can do is to step directly towards your opponent. Not sideways and never backwards. What that does, is that it shows that you are not afraid of him* nor his guard. Stepping sideways shows that you cannot break his guard and want to go around it. Stepping back shows that you are afraid of him. This is a bit simplistic, but it's principles I fall back on when I'm slumping/trying new stuff; I'll experiment with stepping into the opponent and find what distance he 'triggers' at and will attack. What you then want is to play around with that distance. Move in just before that and observe; There, they will often have doubt about your intentions and that doubt can cause mistake, giving you an opportunity to strike. Or even just knowing what distance they will attack at, gives you a great opportunity to make a counter-attack, if you think your skill is sufficient.
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Dec 6, 2016 21:25
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Verisimilidude posted:2. Don't be afraid to get hit in sparring and go for it. It's ok to gently caress up in a sparring match. It doesn't matter who wins or loses. Try new things, get hit, try and figure out why you're getting hit (discuss with your sparring partner, or have another student watch your fight). This! DandyLion constantly tells me to not worry about being hit. I'm getting better, but it's a really hard habit to break. Hopefully now that busy season is over at work I can actually go to practice again.
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Dec 7, 2016 17:16
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So it turns out I really suck at actually attacking in foil. I learned this when I was up 12-4 then lost 13-15 against an opponent who learned that the best strategy against me was "never advance." Sigh.
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Dec 7, 2016 18:18
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GrandpaPants posted:So it turns out I really suck at actually attacking in foil. I learned this when I was up 12-4 then lost 13-15 against an opponent who learned that the best strategy against me was "never advance." Sigh. e: Reading that discussion on "vor" I can absolutely imagine an evolution where in 50 years they'll be talking about judges assigning points on hits based on their interpretation of who had it. That interpretation will get codified more and more rigidly over time and technology will be implemented to make it easier to determine timing of hits, possibly including accelerometers. And from there, you'll have spin-off "weapons" that diverge based on whether they were used as practice weapons and etc. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 18:20
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Ravenfood posted:Its definitely less of an issue in foil/more of a strategy in epee, but if someone is going to be passive and you're up by that much, let them! Time is on your side. It wasn't a real timed match, luckily. Otherwise yeah I probably would have learned (maybe?) to just chill and let them come at me.
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Dec 7, 2016 18:21
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Ravenfood posted:e: Reading that discussion on "vor" I can absolutely imagine an evolution where in 50 years they'll be talking about judges assigning points on hits based on their interpretation of who had it. That interpretation will get codified more and more rigidly over time and technology will be implemented to make it easier to determine timing of hits, possibly including accelerometers. And from there, you'll have spin-off "weapons" that diverge based on whether they were used as practice weapons and etc. My thoughts exactly!
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Dec 7, 2016 19:10
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GrandpaPants posted:It wasn't a real timed match, luckily. Otherwise yeah I probably would have learned (maybe?) to just chill and let them come at me. Learning when not to attack is as important as (and in ways more difficult than) learning to attack. Being up 12-4 is not a time to attack if you didn't get there by attacking.
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Dec 7, 2016 19:16
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Ravenfood posted:Its definitely less of an issue in foil/more of a strategy in epee, but if someone is going to be passive and you're up by that much, let them! Time is on your side. much deserved  for this post.
strangemusic fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 22:01
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Just slowly edge down the piste, staying en garde, until they hit the back line. Also regarding confidence on attacking, I don't know how the rules work exactly in hema but I always tell newbies that they shouldn't worry about getting hit. You should worry about losing points, which is not the same thing as getting hit.
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Dec 9, 2016 01:54
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I apparently need to back up some before I worry about the Vor, ha. I am apparently "moving like a robot", and after some small group work, I'm apparently resetting back to a guard rather than keeping the sword moving between cuts. I am also getting up too much on my toes rather than spreading out my weight when trying to advance/retreat. Any tips for those? I feel like after I cut, I just don't know what to do with my sword to get it back to where I want it, or where that specifically is/should be. (I'm overthinking it probably)
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Dec 9, 2016 19:28
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Uziel posted:I apparently need to back up some before I worry about the Vor, ha. I am apparently "moving like a robot", and after some small group work, I'm apparently resetting back to a guard rather than keeping the sword moving between cuts. I thought that's what you were supposed to do unless you were planning in doing a sequence of cuts.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:34
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DuckConference posted:I thought that's what you were supposed to do unless you were planning in doing a sequence of cuts.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:37
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Uziel posted:I am also getting up too much on my toes rather than spreading out my weight when trying to advance/retreat. 'Spreading out your weight'?. They don't want you on your heels, I hope?
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Dec 10, 2016 02:34
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Uziel posted:I was doing it for sequences for a drill, things like ribbon cuts and oberhau, oberhau, short edge cut from the right, repeat from left, etc Doing that well is as hard to learn as the vor  .The "moving like a robot" thing probably just means that you are still doing "technique 1", "technique 2", "technique 3" and are unable to just flow from one guard/attack to the next in an appropriate fashion. This is normal and again, lots of practice is needed to move more fluently.
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Dec 10, 2016 09:26
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ImplicitAssembler posted:The single best thing you can do is to step directly towards your opponent. Not sideways and never backwards. What that does, is that it shows that you are not afraid of him* nor his guard. Stepping sideways shows that you cannot break his guard and want to go around it. Stepping back shows that you are afraid of him. This (advice) kills the fencer.
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Dec 10, 2016 11:50
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