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Internet Explorer posted:This is basically where I was going with my comments. If you want to reduce the cost of housing, fine. But good luck getting every homeowner in America on-board if you are just asking them to suck up hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of debt. Change the laws back to how they used to be where you could get underwater mortgage values voided for the amount they were underwater for. Do you think people could get behind it if that was also advocated? If it was partnered with a "you can never owe more on a house than what it's valued at" plank?
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Dec 9, 2016 20:10
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Grognan posted:*hillary supporter shown the word neoliberal* "neoliberal" is one of those words that's ceased to have any meaning to me because goons have thrown it around at a bunch of people they don't like for so long like plenty of them were actual lovely neoliberals but it still got turned from an actual descriptive into a snarl word
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Dec 9, 2016 20:10
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UHD posted:who is the establishment exactly At least in the Dem party, tt was previously made up of corporatists, social "elites", and third wayers. It will hopefully soon be made up of leftists, socialists, and progressives, and then we can stop being mad at it because we will have taken it over. Generally it means "entrenched interests".
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Dec 9, 2016 20:11
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UHD posted:who is the establishment exactly The Establishment: people I don't like The Rebels: people I like
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Dec 9, 2016 20:11
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zegermans posted:Hey I'm gonna run for president my platform will be to stand in front of dumb white college kids and say "Millunayes and Billunayes" for an hour straight, please vote for me 2020 In hindsight this turned out to be a substantially better strategy than never standing in front of a crowd larger than the press pool because you prefer "intimate speaking engagements"
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Dec 9, 2016 20:11
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GlyphGryph posted:Okay, so lets ignore the fact that legislators have made it so you can't legally sell a house you're underwater on in an attempt to maintain continued property value growth. swing and a miss you really think you're going to get approved for a mortgage when you are underwater on your current mortgage? who's going to buy your house in the first place if property values are dropping? remember: other people who own homes have the same problem as you
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Dec 9, 2016 20:11
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GlyphGryph posted:I know this isn't how it works now in reality Yeah, that's pretty clear.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:12
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loquacius posted:There are bros of every political inclination; this proves nothing. The unifying factor of Bernie supporters was absolutely not maleness or aggressiveness or a liking for Natty Ice but rather "being younger than 35 years old" yeah thats true, i mostly used it to refer to people who would only post about bernie and the primary at all times i stopped after i was devastatingly owned by the election
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Dec 9, 2016 20:12
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The home-ownership/mortgage chat is getting tiresome and detached from anything to do with Democratic party stuff, guys.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:14
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:"neoliberal" is one of those words that's ceased to have any meaning to me because goons have thrown it around at a bunch of people they don't like for so long wtf is going on with language, can't use specific terms to describe things because they've been defensively poisoned by having been used wrong
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Dec 9, 2016 20:15
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Soviet concrete block apartments in every population center who even needs a yard, or windows
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Dec 9, 2016 20:15
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Captain_Maclaine posted:The home-ownership/mortgage chat is getting tiresome and detached from anything to do with Democratic party stuff, guys. give it a few years, the Trump-appointed Goldman Sachs team will bring back subprimes and we will all seem like Cassandra
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Dec 9, 2016 20:15
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Grognan posted:wtf is going on with language, can't use specific terms to describe things because they've been defensively poisoned by having been used wrong same as its always been, check out George Orwell complaining how "fascist" had become a generic term of abuse despite the fact there was a war with genuine fascists going on at the same time
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Dec 9, 2016 20:16
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Captain_Maclaine posted:The home-ownership/mortgage chat is getting tiresome and detached from anything to do with Democratic party stuff, guys. but i really want to hear more stupid loving bing bong bing declare bankruptcy get mortgages despite being hundreds of thousands of dollars in non-collateralized debt bing bong its loving simply you neoliberal gently caress discussion about how homeowners are loving retarded
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Dec 9, 2016 20:17
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RENEGADE CUCKSKY posted:you really think you're going to get approved for a mortgage when you are underwater on your current mortgage? who's going to buy your house in the first place if property values are dropping? remember: other people who own homes have the same problem as you If we lived in a reasonable country, collateral would be fungible and your first question would be irrelevant. But we don't, so I'm going to say that if someone was willing to give you a 400k loan before and you're still making the same amount of money now and they're no longer willing to give you a 400k loan despite the fact that nothing has changed in regards to your ability to pay it, that's kind of a messed up situation and probably means they were mistaken to have given you a 400k loan in the first place. But okay, I'll accept that said people would have a good selfish reason to continue supporting home prices remaining the same so they don't end up underwater. Even though "people who want their home to maintain its current valuation" was never people I had a problem with anyway, lol. As to your second question, if property values are dropping then there are going to be more people willing and able to buy homes, so if you manage to get lowered property values AND fewer buyers the problem isn't the property drop, it's whatever is causing both of those problems at the same time.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:17
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Ellison is extremely the establishment pick as well though? 'The establishment' is lining up behind him in a big way. So does he now bear the stink of 'establishment politician' because spoiler alert the guy that Schumer and the AFL-CIO are lining up with is 100% the establishment's choice. Ellison is the leftist choice, but the establishment thinks they can stick him into the position and then ignore / undermine him and then tell the left "hey it's not our fault the neoliberal train kept rolling, we put your guy in". The joke's on them though because the left is getting fired up and will interpret neoliberal roadblocks as damage and route around them.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:17
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Tatum Girlparts posted:The Establishment: people I don't like so when the berns take over the party and become the establishment does that mean i have to hate them do i then have to turn on the new establishment this politics stuff is hard
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Dec 9, 2016 20:17
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Internet Explorer posted:Yeah, that's pretty clear. Did you think I said something here other than what I said, btw.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:18
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When Bernie takes over, you become part of the establishment. Suddenly, without any warning you start wearing high dollar suits and look down on everyone.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:18
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Well no one is ever affording a house in our generation so the market will collapse and no one will be home owners to eat the cost Bing bing Especially when the trend in most cities is for rich assholes to buy a home for 300k and tear it down to build like 4 zero-lot-line gentrification pods on the property that are like 4x the cost per month in rent/mortgage as the surrounding homes. I've seen like 4 of those developments that have been burned down by locals during construction.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:18
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lol if you think "houses" will exist after four years of the trump presidency
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Dec 9, 2016 20:18
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Shinjobi posted:When Bernie takes over, you become part of the establishment. Suddenly, without any warning you start wearing high dollar suits and look down on everyone. It's like Spider-Man's symbiote suit. Doesn't seem that bad at first, nifty benefits aplenty, until one day decades later you're getting owned on election day after calling the opposition a bunch of uneducated racists.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:19
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the important thing isn't to elect a DNC chair with specific policy priorities. the important thing is to elect a DNC chair who 1) knows he or she owes his or her position to the left wing of the party and will therefore respond to their concerns and 2) knows that the neoliberal wing of the party is a cadre of thoroughly discredited ghouls and they can and should be ignored and marginalized ideally the defeat of the neoliberal-backed candidate sends a loud and clear message that this isn't their party anymore. whoever gets in has a tough fight ahead and we can't have those emaciated old turds trying to claw back into power
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Dec 9, 2016 20:19
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Zikan posted:lol if you think "houses" will exist after four years of the trump presidency *vault tec guy knocks on door*
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Dec 9, 2016 20:19
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Shinjobi posted:When Bernie takes over, you become part of the establishment. Suddenly, without any warning you start wearing high dollar suits and look down on everyone. Tanned, exquisitely coiffed Bernie Sanders tells supports corporations actually have a lot to offer.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:20
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UHD posted:so when the berns take over the party and become the establishment does that mean i have to hate them I'm afraid so, yea. When Ellison and all take over and we still look at midterms as at best getting a little bump from 'hopelessly crushed' to 'normal crushed' we'll have to turn on the establishment once again as corrupt and evil. Rastor posted:Ellison is the leftist choice, but the establishment thinks they can stick him into the position and then ignore / undermine him and then tell the left "hey it's not our fault the neoliberal train kept rolling, we put your guy in". If no one supports Ellison it's because he's such a rebel, if the establishment supports him it's because of a conspiracy against him and it isn't real.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:20
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Dr_0ctag0n posted:*vault tec guy knocks on door* where do I sign up?
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Dec 9, 2016 20:21
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Shinjobi posted:When Bernie takes over, you become part of the establishment. Suddenly, without any warning you start wearing high dollar suits and look down on everyone. don't you mean shutter shades and popped polo collars?
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Dec 9, 2016 20:22
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:where do I sign up? i'd read the fine print for what weird experiment you'll be subjected to first sure you might grow deadly claws like wolverine but you might also be melted down to make those claws
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Dec 9, 2016 20:23
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GlyphGryph posted:If we lived in a reasonable country, collateral would be fungible and your first question would be irrelevant. But we don't, so I'm going to say that if someone was willing to give you a 400k loan before and you're still making the same amount of money now and they're no longer willing to give you a 400k loan despite the fact that nothing has changed in regards to your ability to pay it, that's kind of a messed up situation and probably means they were mistaken to have given you a 400k loan in the first place. lmao. see the world as it is, not as you want it to be. quote:As to your second question, if property values are dropping then there are going to be more people willing and able to buy homes, so if you manage to get lowered property values AND fewer buyers the problem isn't the property drop, it's whatever is causing both of those problems at the same time. oh, word. this would be true if housing prices operated in an economic vacuum. pro tip: if housing prices are dropping, the economy is almost inevitably going to be in a downward spiral.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:23
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Shinjobi posted:It's like Spider-Man's symbiote suit. Doesn't seem that bad at first, nifty benefits aplenty, until one day decades later you're getting owned on election day after calling the opposition a bunch of uneducated racists.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:25
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RENEGADE CUCKSKY posted:lmao. We are in a thread largely based around rebuilding the party with a new and improved vision for the future. We are not limited by the way the world is, only by what we can make it be. That doesn't mean everything is possible, but home ownership reform? That definitely is. I'm working my way through stuff. A lot of the stuff I'm going to say, or propose, or consider, is going to be wrong or incomplete. But I get the feeling at this point a lot of the stuff society at large accepts as unchangeable gospel is just as wrong and incomplete. RENEGADE CUCKSKY posted:oh, word. this would be true if housing prices operated in an economic vacuum. pro tip: if housing prices are dropping, the economy is almost inevitably going to be in a downward spiral. You could also have house prices drop because there is a ton of new housing development, especially high density housing development. That doesn't necessitate an economic downward spiral, does it. GlyphGryph has issued a correction as of 20:28 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 20:26
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Yinlock posted:i'd read the fine print for what weird experiment you'll be subjected to first honestly I'll take that chance
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Dec 9, 2016 20:26
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:Agreed there. But that is the risk you take when you decide to buy. Though depending on the location of the house, you may be able to rent out your underwater house, to cover the mortgage, and then move anyway. Basically the decision to buy should be based on what your future plans are. If you are planning on moving in a few a years, it probably makes more sense to rent, if you are planning on having kids and staying put for 5,10,15 years, then it might make sense to buy. And during those 5-10-15 years, the actual value of the house doesn't matter. imo if you're not staying in a house for at least ten years past the end of your mortgage you shouldn't be buying a house if that means you need a 30 year mortgage for your house, you'd best be willing to live there the rest of your life. the only reason to buy is to divorce yourself from the biggest bill you have.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:29
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GlyphGryph posted:We are in a thread largely based around rebuilding the party with a new and improved vision for the future. We are not limited by the way the world is, only by what we can make it be. That doesn't mean everything is possible, but home ownership reform? That definitely is. yeah, and if you expect to rebuild the Democratic party based on Future Communism, you're not going to get very far. Home ownership reform may very well happen under a Trump administration, but I promise you it's only going to compound these issues. There's an absolute fuckton of housing development going on in the DC market, for instance. Prices, both to rent and to buy, are going up steadily. Any kind of severe housing downturn will almost assuredly be in tandem with an economic recession. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 9, 2016 20:30
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Mirthless posted:imo if you're not staying in a house for at least ten years past the end of your mortgage you shouldn't be buying a house Ironically, if house prices dropped massively it would be a lot more reasonable to live in a given home for a much shorter amount of time. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 9, 2016 20:30
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i hope i get the vault where we eat pink slime and turn into pink ghouls and everything is pink
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Dec 9, 2016 20:31
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GlyphGryph posted:Ironically, if house prices dropped massively it would be a lot more reasonable to live in a given home for a much shorter amount of time. True! It kills me that I didn't have money to buy during the last housing crisis. I'm looking forward to the next one.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:31
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Shinjobi posted:Even in the event that you manage to separate yourself from the establishment, the damage has already been done and it will haunt you both literally and figuratively for the rest of your life. Furthermore, continuing with the "symbiote=establishment" comparison, there's further danger in the establishment going off and creating its own offshoot that's even crazier and blatantly evil than the original establishment. God forbid once the offshoot starts reproducing.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:33
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gently caress buying or talking about houses in this thread.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:33
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