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Friendly Factory posted:Do you know why Lucas made them queens and knights and whatnot? It isn't because of some hidden notion about feudalism, it was because he was making a sci-fantasy franchise and knights rescued queens in fantasy. Again, you are having trouble with the concept of ideology. You are thinking in terms of "deeply hidden messages" deliberately inserted by an author. Ideology is basically defined as the unconscious fantasies that structure social reality. Racism, for example, is an ideology. (The notion that people communicate with "secret messages" deeply hidden 'beneath' speech is an example of fantasy.) In dismissing the films as 'just fantasy' while focusing on plot canon, you are betraying that you do not understand the terms being employed.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:22
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I predict the film, while successful, will make a little less money than TFA, and so the #DumpStarWars idiots will crow about their victory while Disney shrugs and continues to make Star Wars movies.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:22
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Phi230 posted:i know perfectly well what the alt right thinks of star wars, im more surprised it hasnt gotten started till now. last year they were in huge uproar for months I think less people care about a new star wars coming out than they did last time.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:23
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Maxwell Lord posted:I predict the film, while successful, will make a little less money than TFA, and so the #DumpStarWars idiots will crow about their victory while Disney shrugs and continues to make Star Wars movies. Even Disney expects it to make less than TFA so anyone who thinks that they'll be devestated when it only makes 1 billion instead of 2, are completely mistaken. Star Wars is a license to print money. As long as it doubles the budget (which it absolutely will) then the movie's in the clear.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:25
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Maxwell Lord posted:I predict the film, while successful, will make a little less money than TFA, and so the #DumpStarWars idiots will crow about their victory while Disney shrugs and continues to make Star Wars movies. Probably but the important thing to take away is that these fucks aren't going to make a dent in Rogue Ones box office
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Dec 9, 2016 20:25
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Yaws posted:Probably but the important thing to take away is that these fucks aren't going to make a dent in Rogue Ones box office Many people thought the same thing about the election though.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:34
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if theres any lesson the election taught its that movies featuring non-white people, or women, is unsafe to make
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Dec 9, 2016 20:40
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homullus posted:Many people thought the same thing about the election though. I think Rogue One will do just fine. This ain't the election.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:40
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Yaws posted:I think Rogue One will do just fine. This ain't the election. That's what people thought about the election.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:42
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I would have loved to see a Lucas helmed Star Wars made during Trump's America. Disney's gonna keep the politics in Star Wars as defanged as possible.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:44
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sassassin posted:That's what people thought about the election. He didn't win just because all the racists voted for him, that's the scariest part. Millions of non-racists were like "well, this guy may be a shithead, but I have to vote for him because *blah blah some bullshit*.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:46
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sassassin posted:That's what people thought about the election. The popular vote polls were off by about 3% or whatever in aggregate. I'm sure if Disney makes +/- 3% of whatever Rogue One is tracking at they'll be pleased as punch.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:52
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Basebf555 posted:He didn't win just because all the racists voted for him, that's the scariest part. Millions of non-racists were like "well, this guy may be a shithead, but I have to vote for him because *blah blah some bullshit*. Liberal democrats failing the people is pretty star wars You're right
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Dec 9, 2016 21:24
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Bongo Bill posted:This was known, of course. It's been consistent since 1977.
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Dec 9, 2016 21:31
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Droid slavery is obviously unjust and never commented upon as such. It's a rather distinctive quality of Star War. Like - it's a never-ending struggle because the people trying to change things for the better are flawed and myopic even in victory. Its absence from TFA was one of the things that really disappointed me about it.
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Dec 9, 2016 21:51
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homullus posted:Many people thought the same thing about the election though. There's no Electoral College for the box office.
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Dec 9, 2016 21:52
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I check out for one drat day and some guy has a meltdown about his archaeology degree being violated by using the Marxist conception of feudalism. The gently caress kind of arch program doesn't teach historical materialism as part of their literature on cultural evolution?
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Dec 9, 2016 21:55
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Phi230 posted:if theres any lesson the election taught its that movies featuring non-white people, or women, is unsafe to make No; that thinking is precisely why Clinton lost. Force Awakens is the safest possible movie you could make, and Clinton was the safest possible choice out of all the candidates. A safe movie makes a billion dollars, but a safe candidate is a whole different thing. Clinton was soundly rejected for being safe. In all the praise over how 'likeable' Rey and Finn are (strong female protagonist! Black lives matter!), liberals remained blind to the fact that nobody likes Leia in TFA. She, not Rey, is the transparent Clinton analogue, and she is completely forgettable - the least-discussed part of the film. Even Disney knew to stealthily cut her subplot down to the bare bones. It's among the worst parts of the film. Clinton's entire campaign hinged on the depiction of Trump as a hyper-Nazi. It was sold so heavily that we had people terrified of concentration camps, even killing themselves to escape the new Reich. You had people fantasizing that Muslims would be hunted down in the streets by gangs of rednecks. But anyone with over half a brain knows that the reality TV casino guy isn't a loving Palpatine. That's facile. Trump is merely a separatist like Gunray and Dooku. "Drain the swamp!", right? Dooku took advantage of people's very real concerns about corruption in the Republic. He was absolutely right about the Senate bring under the influence of big business, even though he was an rear end in a top hat. And that's precisely what the prequels are about : the ostensible good guys - and the audience - do not stop to ask why the rear end in a top hat baddies are acting the way they do. Why does Grievous hate the Republic? Why does Maul? Nobody thinks about these things, and that's how Palpatine wins.
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Dec 9, 2016 22:03
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America is already great, bub.
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Dec 9, 2016 22:07
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Politics in MY Star Wars? It's more likely than you think!
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Dec 9, 2016 22:09
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:But anyone with over half a brain knows that the reality TV casino guy isn't a loving Palpatine. That's facile. Trump is merely a separatist like Gunray and Dooku. "Drain the swamp!", right? Dooku took advantage of people's very real concerns about corruption in the Republic. He was absolutely right about the Senate bring under the influence of big business, even though he was an rear end in a top hat. Pence is the Palpatine analogue. He's already got the electrocution part down.
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Dec 9, 2016 22:15
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Enough! It's time to assign each Star Wars character their own Hogwarts house and hip hop founding father!
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Dec 9, 2016 22:18
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Han Solo is Hufflepuff, because he's always working hard and dying.
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Dec 9, 2016 22:38
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DrakePegasus posted:Han Solo is Hufflepuff, because he's always working hard and dying. Boba Fett is Hufflepuff^2 Han Solo is more like Hagrid or something, a weird outsider who sleeps with the animals
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Dec 9, 2016 22:43
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Ferrinus posted:Enough! It's time to assign each Star Wars character their own Hogwarts house and hip hop founding father! Anakin is Hufflepuff by default because his family has no money or connections.
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Dec 9, 2016 22:46
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People are genuinely going to have this joke discussion about Harry Potter characters now.
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Dec 9, 2016 23:09
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Are you a TFA hater?
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Dec 9, 2016 23:15
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Super Fan posted:Are you a TFA hater? don't do it
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Dec 9, 2016 23:32
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:liberals remained blind to the fact that nobody likes Leia in TFA. She, not Rey, is the transparent Clinton analogue, and she is completely forgettable - the least-discussed part of the film. Even Disney knew to stealthily cut her subplot down to the bare bones. It's among the worst parts of the film. Nobody would have liked Trump either if he had to keep using the word "Snoke" in his stump speeches and make it sound anything but laughable.
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Dec 10, 2016 00:05
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Super Fan posted:Are you a TFA hater? I am beyond such things.
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Dec 10, 2016 00:05
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Again, you are having trouble with the concept of ideology. You are thinking in terms of "deeply hidden messages" deliberately inserted by an author.  When you put things in quotation marks, you should use quotes from the person. Like this: "I have been writing about feudalist ideology shared by many of the characters" And this: "I have written that the Seperatists are predominately libertarians, which makes them effective allies of the feudalist Count Dooku" (this one is actually laugh out loud funny) And finally this: "Ideology is basically defined as the unconscious fantasies that structure social reality" So when I showed that Dooku neither displayed nor symbolically represented feudalism, you glossed over it. I can't imagine why. Libertarians, by the by, are almost nearly the exact opposite of feudalists and would never under any circumstances see a feudalist as an ally. I would love it if you could tell that to a political scientist and record their reaction. I may have missed your original thoughts on this, though. Could I have a link? I'm feeling helpful today.
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Dec 10, 2016 00:40
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We're a year and a week away from Star Wars Episode VIII: The Rise of the Ren-aissance. Is it too much to ask that we get a title and teaser this month?
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Dec 10, 2016 00:54
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Jewmanji posted:Is it too much to ask that we get a title and teaser this month? Teaser, maybe, but a title seems likely by the end of the year given when we found out about The Force Awakens (still a dumb name)
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Dec 10, 2016 01:02
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http://sites.sas.upenn.edu/sfreeman/files/illiberal_libertarians_ppa_2001.pdf Here is an academic paper by a political scientist comparing libertarianism to feudalism, my friend. The idea is both ideologies conceive of political power "as a system of personal political dependence grounded in a network of private contractual relations." For all their talk of freedom, libertarians are really into unlimited private power. Count Duke-oo is two feudal titles put together. The feudal fantasies of libertarians features heavily in Star Wars.
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Dec 10, 2016 01:34
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i love stars wars
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Dec 10, 2016 01:52
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Friendly Factory posted:I may have missed your original thoughts on this, though. Could I have a link? I'm feeling helpful today. I decided to cut out the middle man. I looked through the first ten pages of your posts in this thread. I read all of them to begin with, but by about page 3 I started just searching for "feud". Here's what I found: SMG posted:Keep in mind that, when Luke blew up the Death Star, he killed every prisoner held there - except The Princess, of course. All those blue shirt guys from the opening scene, all the aliens (who must have existed in order for Chewbaca's disguise to work), and all the droids that were made to serve.... We don't care about those deaths because, naturally, they aren't royalty. These first few quotes indicated to me that you were conflating royalty with feudalism, which is what I had suspected in my previous posts. However, you outright declare this in these next two posts: SMG posted:“It's not an accident. The democratic Republic really did betray its ideals by supporting this monarchist splinter group.” So now monarchy and feudalism are the same thing, which of course they are not. Next up: SMG posted:“And anyways, this is moving away from the point that the film's depiction of poverty promotes feudalist ideology. King and peasant have their place in this film, and Rey is not where she should be. Rey's ascendancy is akin to Divine Right, and the Resistance has no trace of support by the people (e.g. the 'scum' on Jakku).” In this quote we find out you don't know what Divine Right is. It specifically involves actual monarchs, not presidents with queen titles. And she isn't even that so I have no clue what you were going for on this one. Here we go again: SMG posted:“But backpatting over having black and female protagonists is a distraction from the film's ideology - which is, again, monarchist/feudalist. Force Awakens is the first overtly 'gently caress the poor' Star Wars.” Nothing in the films relating to poor people is radically different from the other two trilogies. Luke is treated like a bumpkin and Anakin's mother is disregarded as insignificant as she is a slave. Rey is looked down on, sure, but Han/Leia end up respecting her in a similar fashion to Luke. Nothing supports the view that the movie is explicitly saying she's bad for being poor. Lightanchor posted:http://sites.sas.upenn.edu/sfreeman/files/illiberal_libertarians_ppa_2001.pdf Do you believe everything SMG tells you? Samuel Freeman is a philosopher, not a poli-sci. He's also wrong in this assertion. The connecting issue for both systems is a matter of freedom, namely that libertarianism places its highest respect on the freedom of the market and the contracts that follow, and that a "feudal contract" is more or less the monarch forcing you to occupy land that you do not own for their benefit. Libertarianism and feudalism have contracts, yes. One is a free association, the other is more or less a prison. And that is what connects them. You cannot have these two systems co-exist. And for the millionth time, "Duke", "Count", "King" and whatever else you want to whip up are not feudal titles. They are royal titles. Good lord.
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Dec 10, 2016 01:55
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DeimosRising posted:I check out for one drat day and some guy has a meltdown about his archaeology degree being violated by using the Marxist conception of feudalism. The gently caress kind of arch program doesn't teach historical materialism as part of their literature on cultural evolution? This sounds interesting, but I don't have an archaeology degree. Would you please elaborate?
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Dec 10, 2016 01:57
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DeimosRising posted:I check out for one drat day and some guy has a meltdown about his archaeology degree being violated by using the Marxist conception of feudalism. The gently caress kind of arch program doesn't teach historical materialism as part of their literature on cultural evolution? What are you talking about? Historical materialism is a small part of a much larger research base. It in no way violates what I've said. Marxist thought on merchants in feudalism overwhelmingly shows a disunity between feudal rulers and the capitalism the merchants represent. Marx himself said this. Conflating capitalism and libertarianism is a whole separate issue. Historical materialism in general is a good base for understanding social change, but structuralism and phenomenology are just as important. Nothing in any of those three things implies a conflation between feudalism and libertarianism. Though I will admit that I don't read a lot of libertarian literature. I'm also not sure how I'm having a meltdown by pointing out logical inconsistencies in someone's writing. My degree has not been violated. It's okay to disagree with me as long as you aren't saying things that aren't factual.
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Dec 10, 2016 02:09
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DeimosRising posted:I check out for one drat day and some guy has a meltdown about his archaeology degree being violated by using the Marxist conception of feudalism. The gently caress kind of arch program doesn't teach historical materialism as part of their literature on cultural evolution? ive been violated by this post
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Dec 10, 2016 02:10
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:No; that thinking is precisely why Clinton lost. I'm gonna repost this during the brief minutes between the sirens going off and us all being reduced to our constituent atoms.
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Dec 10, 2016 02:12
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