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Mazerunner posted:ME1's numbers on its gear and poo poo were just numbers for the sake of numbers. Like you could do very different builds which is good (ie. gun that fires forever vs. gun that shoots once with the force of a tank) or funky stuff with ammo mods but when you were comparing like, two pistols or two armour sets it's like... 2% more guff or 1.5% crap and 0.5% poo poo? And then you actually use them and they are exactly the same, so you just use the one with bigger numbers which always ends up being the spectre gear in the end. But-but minmaxing you say! Well sure but 2 and 3 also had minmaxing except there's resulted in big noticable and meaningful changes vs a few extra percentage points here or there. Yeah, 400% agreed. ME2's improvements were significant and ME3's were as well. Some people dislike the global cooldown, but I think it actually makes gameplay way more interesting because the existence of a global cooldown allows them to design powerful abilities with shorter cooldowns that are used according to situational need rather than in a "what is most efficient button click rotation" fashion. It's a really cool gameplay design choice that maybe doesn't get enough credit for how it opens up powers and helps to make the combat more dynamic.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:15
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| # ? May 15, 2024 10:52 |
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In Mass Effect 1 you could be an elite soldier and put your crosshairs right on a guy and miss them because of the weird dice roll mechanics they still had in place. That was bad. However, console cheating to give yourself super speed was funny.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:15
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man 2007 had Crysis (remember how everyone was blown away by those graphics?), Psychonauts, NWN2:MotB, Portal... and a whole lotta bad games. Shadowrun hahaha.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:17
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Like, if Adrenaline Rush had existed in ME1, it would have had to be a button with a 40 second - 1 minute cooldown just to stop it from being wildly and obviously too strong. Because of the global cooldown system in ME2 though, they're able to give this very powerful ability a short cooldown, because using it comes with the opportunity cost of you not being able to use other utility abilities immediately after hitting your bullet time. This also involves a more interesting tactical choice than "my good power is off cooldown, should I use it yes/no". That goes for a bunch of other strong abilities, too. It's a really good design imo.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:19
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In Mass Effect 1 Shepard doesn't know how to use a scope on a sniper rifle unless you put points in the Sniper Rifle skill
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Dec 9, 2016 20:19
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not knowing how to use something because you don't know how to use it is an odd complaint I think
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Dec 9, 2016 20:20
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I am not a career soldier like Commander Shepard literally is, but I reckon I could probably puzzle out what a rifle scope is and how to use it.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:22
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I'm not either, and have no experience with guns whatsoever - do all soldiers train with sniper rifles?
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Dec 9, 2016 20:24
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Lt. Danger posted:I am not a career soldier like Commander Shepard literally is, but I reckon I could probably puzzle out what a rifle scope is and how to use it. lol I highly doubt you would know how to use an actual "sniper" scope without some training bruh
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Dec 9, 2016 20:25
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Actual ranged scopes require an understanding of range and sighting and optics and conditions and what all the funny numbers and lines in the display mean. Abstracting that into needing to put a point into a training skill is hardly an unforgivable design decision.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:26
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and in a more general sense I like that abilities/equipment or whatever are gated by stats - and content gating in general as well; I don't like games that let me do everything at any point, or even all in one playthrough.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:26
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I suppose it is theoretically possible actual space soldier Commander Shepard has never used a sniper rifle in their career. I imagine they have received some training though, since they carry a sniper rifle around with them regardless of class, and they apparently know enough to be able to point and shoot it but not enough to be able to put their eye to the scope and look through it.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:26
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Well, it is a silly complaint. You can put points in the Sniper Rifle skill if you want Shepard to know how to use a sniper rifle, and from a gameplay perspective it's fun to have the player feel like their choice unlocked a new feature. That's part of the character building element of RPGs. If you really need an explanation, perhaps military grade sniper rifles in the space future require specialised training to use properly because of their extreme heat and recoil on firing. The sniper rifles in ME1 overheat in like two shots, that probably throws you off if you haven't had sniper training.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:27
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Lt. Danger posted:I suppose it is theoretically possible actual space soldier Commander Shepard has never used a sniper rifle in their career. I imagine they have received some training though, since they carry a sniper rifle around with them regardless of class, and they apparently know enough to be able to point and shoot it but not enough to be able to put their eye to the scope and look through it. I guess so. I don't recall off the top of my head, but do you not start the game with some skill points to distribute?
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Dec 9, 2016 20:28
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Also yeah, they probably have hella overlays and biometrics and readouts on the scope and it's like working a really fancy Nikon camera and your Vanguard Shepard is just like, "ugh, I give up! I'll just use it like a club!".
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Dec 9, 2016 20:29
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A Buff Gay Dude posted:Actual ranged scopes require an understanding of range and sighting and optics and conditions and what all the funny numbers and lines in the display mean. Scope bite is a pretty common phenomenon for people trying to use a long range rifle. JawKnee posted:I'm not either, and have no experience with guns whatsoever - do all soldiers train with sniper rifles? It's more whether or not a soldier is trained to snipe, it's not all about the scope either just ask this fella.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:30
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ME1's only real flaw in that particular subject was allowing you to deploy with weapons you can't train for instead of just removing them. Like a Soldier can train to use them all, but a Vanguard or something is only supposed to know pistols and shotguns no matter what training they undergo. What they should have done (and did do in later iterations) was just remove your slots for assault and sniper rifles in that case. But instead you still have them on your back for some reason and are just comically inept at using them. Most people understand what is going on for gameplay purposes and just ignore the "off-limits" weapons. Other people go turbo sperg about it for basically no reason. Meme Poker Party fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 20:30
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Only the Soldier and Infiltrator classes start with the Sniper Rifles skill, though you can select it as a bonus skill for other classes. However every Shepard can use every weapon regardless of class or skill points, but you can't "aim" with weapons you haven't put skill points into. This is not much of a problem for shotguns but a huge problem for sniper rifles (unless you just HE Rounds the sucker).
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Dec 9, 2016 20:31
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Chomp8645 posted:ME1's only real flaw in that particular subject was allowing you to deploy with weapons you can't train for instead of just removing them. 
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Dec 9, 2016 20:32
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I did not think there would be serious opposition to "giving the player weapons they can't normally use is dumb" but this is, after all, the Mass Effect thread.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:33
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Lt. Danger posted:"giving the player weapons they can't normally use is dumb" Chomp8645 posted:ME1's only real flaw in that particular subject was allowing you to deploy with weapons you can't train for instead of just removing them. Seems like you two are in agreement though?
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Dec 9, 2016 20:35
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Chomp8645 posted:Other people go turbo sperg about it for basically no reason. Mass Effect: Andromeda - Going Turbo Sperg For A Pretty Good Reason, Actually (ME3, it bad.)
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Dec 9, 2016 20:36
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I was just generally posting, not targeted at anyone. I also think sniper rifles in Mass Effect aren't really comparable to actual sniper rifle use in the real world because Mass Effect is a game, but this too is objectionable to some??
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Dec 9, 2016 20:37
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A Buff Gay Dude posted:Actual ranged scopes require an understanding of range and sighting and optics and conditions and what all the funny numbers and lines in the display mean. It may not be unforgivable but it still dumb and obnoxious. Like I can forgive someone for cheating on a test but that doesn't mean I'm okay with it. I will demand they do better and not make poo poo decisions later.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:38
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"This is objectionable to some?" "No really tell me. I have no evidence at all this is objectionable to some but I need to rage. I need my anger. I'm so lonely. Please say it's objectionable."
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Dec 9, 2016 20:39
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Lt. Danger posted:I was just generally posting, not targeted at anyone. Nah, that's exactly the position I'm taking about the stats thing: it's a game, it's okay if your professional soldier needs to tick a spreadsheet box before he can look down the scope.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:40
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Lt. Danger posted:I did not think there would be serious opposition to "giving the player weapons they can't normally use is dumb" but this is, after all, the Mass Effect thread. This is just a silly strawman, I don't think anyone is saying that. People are taking issue with what you actually said, which was that the player being unable to scope in without putting a point in the Sniper Rifles skill was dumb.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:40
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There is no need to be upset Chomp8645. I don't think anyone is cross here.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:40
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JawKnee posted:Nah, that's exactly the position I'm taking about the stats thing: it's a game, it's okay if your professional soldier needs to tick a spreadsheet box before he can look down the scope. Nah. I have an entire button on my controller/mouse dedicated to "aim." I don't care what gun it is, when I press that button, it should do something. The skill can abstract accuracy/damage/response time/skill cooldowns or whatever, but my button should work.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:42
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okay
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Dec 9, 2016 20:43
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marshmallow creep posted:Nah. I'm sorry but the button-awesome connection was not pioneered until 2011. In dark age of games sometimes you would press a button... and something awesome would not happen. Spooky!
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Dec 9, 2016 20:43
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Lt. Danger posted:I also think sniper rifles in Mass Effect aren't really comparable to actual sniper rifle use in the real world because Mass Effect is a game, but this too is objectionable to some?? Wait, but... Lt. Danger posted:I suppose it is theoretically possible actual space soldier Commander Shepard has never used a sniper rifle in their career. I imagine they have received some training though, since they carry a sniper rifle around with them regardless of class, and they apparently know enough to be able to point and shoot it but not enough to be able to put their eye to the scope and look through it. Lt. Danger posted:I am not a career soldier like Commander Shepard literally is, but I reckon I could probably puzzle out what a rifle scope is and how to use it. So, like, which is it? Is it unrealistic that Shepard can't scope in by default, or...the other thing... This is a silly argument.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:44
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Regardless of if Shepard could use the scope or not, there's still a chance that you could have dedicated a lot of skill to it, line up a headshot, then the dice roll goes "nope you missed lol." Removing the dice roll mechanics of the shooting part was a great decision for ME2.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:44
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Chomp8645 posted:I'm sorry but the button-awesome connection was not pioneered until 2011. What a time to be alive.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:44
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Codependent Poster posted:Removing the dice roll mechanics of the shooting part was a great decision for ME2. was this a thing in ME1? I legit don't remember that. I remember aim-assist.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:45
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JawKnee posted:the only mod I want is one that removes color from textual choices, and scrambles their placement around This wouldnt work too well with the ME games though because a lot of the time you got like 4 words of text to describe what the choice was and then you clicked it and an entire cutscene where shepard does a lot of stuff you could never have predicted would happen The colors was sometimes the only indicator where the hell the choice might be headed
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Dec 9, 2016 20:45
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having to invest points in a skill to use a weapon in an rpg is a pretty common game mechanic and complaining about it is pretty weird that said handwaving it away as "even marine todd had to train 30 days in the desert sniping insurgents in ghillie suits to master the power that is the sniper scope that's loving realism baby" in this videogame of faster-than-light sexbot blue alien lesbian cum jizz element zero generic space frog nonsense is ranking up there with the dumbest loving thing i've seen lately
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Dec 9, 2016 20:47
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Zzulu posted:This wouldnt work too well with the ME games though because a lot of the time you got like 4 words of text to describe what the choice was and then you clicked it and an entire cutscene where shepard does a lot of stuff you could never have predicted would happen fair enough, an expanded dialogue mod (like the similar one for FO4) would be nice there too, but mostly it's because even years later I know just to go to a certain direction rather than reading or even caring what my character is going to say
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Dec 9, 2016 20:47
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JawKnee posted:was this a thing in ME1? I legit don't remember that. I remember aim-assist. Yeah I was gonna say that I don't really remember this as a thing. But I think what was a thing is that while scoped the crosshair was just a visual and didn't actually mean your shot would be pinpoint accurate. Normal scatter still applied, which could be considerable if you had low skill or +scatter modifiers. So in that way you could have a target in your sights but still miss through scatter, which could easily seem like Morrowind-style lol dice roll. Not positive though, it was so long ago. Meme Poker Party fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 20:49
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Cowcaster posted:having to invest points in a skill to use a weapon in an rpg is a pretty common game mechanic and complaining about it is pretty weird It comes down to make a good compromise between a shooter and an RPG. ME1 isn't that. Fallout NV did it well in my opinion. You can aim with any weapon, but skill investment makes you more accurate with less sway and scatter and do more damage. My button always does something! Awesome!
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Dec 9, 2016 20:52
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