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Cowcaster posted:mass effect 2 literally locked you out of using some weapons based on your class, and mass effect 3 had weight limits and weapon mods that all worked towards the same goals lmao Yeah, and those are cool and good??
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Dec 10, 2016 00:37
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Cowcaster posted:i hated the way paragon/renegade were implemented in every respect i can think of off the top of my head except for at least going one way or the other never locked you out of content, from what I can remember
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Dec 10, 2016 00:38
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Lt. Danger posted:Yeah, and those are cool and good?? were we arguing over whether they were cool and good or whether they made sense because they're not necessarily the same thing
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Dec 10, 2016 00:40
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ME1 Gun's is funny because it doesn't make sense, but it's bad because if I have to play at spreadsheets to be a badass space commando then the spreadsheet should be exciting Probably should have led with the second bit I suppose
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Dec 10, 2016 00:43
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Lt. Danger posted:Yeah, and those are cool and good?? How have you still not figured out that nobody is arguing otherwise? Literally zero people said that the way they did it in ME1 was better. They've said "who the hell cares". This is because normal people were able to see "oh, my character has no ability to train with this weapon. It is not a weapon I am supposed to use" and then just leave that alone. Yeah, ideally you just wouldn't bring along weapons that you can't be trained it. That would be better. But oh well, the system will serve and it's not a big deal. That's how most people feel. You on the other hand are apparently so deeply triggered over a video game man carrying a gun that he is unskilled with that you are unleashing your weapons grade autism on anyone who doesn't feel that Shepard having too many guns is game ruining issue. Like Jesus dude you're arguing with nobody over an issue everyone considers trivial anyway.
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Dec 10, 2016 00:47
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and as fantastic as new vegas, if we're talking about mechanics making sense having your intelligence maxed out to the detriment of everything else is the fastest route to maxing out every weapon skill under the sun which is unintuitive as h*ck
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Dec 10, 2016 00:48
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Doctor Spaceman posted:It's only Mass Effect where it's really a huge issue. An explicit Light/Dark side dichotomy makes sense for Star Wars (and for Jade Empire, despite issues with execution), and Dragon Age has an approval system for party members instead. KOTOR didn't quite get it right, because the light side and dark side options are still your usual Bioware "Good to the point of idiocy" and "Satan" dichotomy. There is only ever one light and one dark option, and nothing in between, so following the light or the dark had nothing to do with altruism or pragmatism sometimes. KOTOR 2 improved immensely on the light/dark system by introducing the influence system. You could be a strong tenant of the light or dark side, which when maxed out gave you major attribute bonuses as a reward. Or, you could toe the line between the two, and make decisions based on influencing your companions, which in turn gave you access to more Jedi and stronger party builds. Adherence to one philosophy or another is kind of selfish, and gives major individual power bonuses, versus a stronger overall party. The system in Mass Effect 1 is bad like I said, but I actually think it is worse in Mass Effect 2 due to the party confrontation sequences. If you haven't been powergaming your Paragon/Renegade points the entire time, you get hosed over on maintaining party loyalty, as you get stuck picking sides between Tali/Legion, Miranda/Jack, or getting Zaeed's loyalty at all. Mass Effect 1 at least gave you the option of getting Wrex's armour first as an alternative to talking him down.
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Dec 10, 2016 00:49
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Chomp8645 posted:How have you still not figured out that nobody is arguing otherwise? Literally zero people said that the way they did it in ME1 was better. They've said "who the hell cares". This is because normal people were able to see "oh, my character has no ability to train with this weapon. It is not a weapon I am supposed to use" and then just leave that alone. Yeah, ideally you just wouldn't bring along weapons that you can't be trained it. That would be better. But oh well, the system will serve and it's not a big deal. That's how most people feel. Jesus Christ.
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Dec 10, 2016 00:51
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Cowcaster posted:and as fantastic as new vegas, if we're talking about mechanics making sense having your intelligence maxed out to the detriment of everything else is the fastest route to maxing out every weapon skill under the sun which is unintuitive as h*ck maybe, but if you don't also meet strength requirements for the weapon you're using it becomes more difficult to use effectively, despite your rank in that weapon type
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Dec 10, 2016 00:52
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Cowcaster posted:and as fantastic as new vegas, if we're talking about mechanics making sense having your intelligence maxed out to the detriment of everything else is the fastest route to maxing out every weapon skill under the sun which is unintuitive as h*ck Yeah I never really like it too much when games do the "high INT = more SP gain" thing. It always ends up being some min-max type thing where the best builds involve getting really high INT and then putting in your penance as a poo poo character for 20 hours until the scale shifts and you enter Maximum Everything phase.
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Dec 10, 2016 00:53
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i missed an "is" phone typing that post and like 10 people quoted it thanks a lot guys
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Dec 10, 2016 00:59
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I can edit it in for you if you like
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Dec 10, 2016 01:00
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JawKnee posted:I can edit it in for you if you like i mean technically i could edit it in for YOU if i like
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Dec 10, 2016 01:01
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Arcsquad12 posted:KOTOR didn't quite get it right, because the light side and dark side options are still your usual Bioware "Good to the point of idiocy" and "Satan" dichotomy. Jade Empire's version wasn't meant to be good / evil, but it worked out to be that 99% of the time anyway.
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Dec 10, 2016 01:08
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Doctor Spaceman posted:I think that's justifiable in a Star Wars-based game though, since that universe does have an explicit binary morality system. It's different if you actually want to explore the implications of that or treat it with some nuance (as KotOR 2 did) , but I don't think the first game needed to do that. The trouble is that you're playing as Revan, though. Much as KOTOR 2 is responsible for expanding his character immensely, Revan as presented in the first game is still more complex than the Light/Dark dichotomy allows. A big moment that points this out is on Kashyyyk when you face off with the Rakatan personality tester. The light side options are not feasible military tactics, while the dark side options are, so choosing what is strategically the correct option nets you dark side points, thereby lowering your force power bonuses to light side powers. Toeing the line in KOTOR 1 just makes all of your force powers more expensive to use and weaker as well. And that flies in the face of what Revan is supposed to be. He's a military genius who earns the respect of Canderous and Carth, the respective light and dark soldier companions, for different reasons. But the ingame penalties for following Revan's example make you weaker than adhering to Light or Dark completely. And without the later influence system, there is no incentive beyond playing a "canon" version of events to actually roleplay as Revan. I think a light/dark dichotomy can work, especially in Star Wars, but you need good writing to back it up. Even Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon, two characters considered pinnacles of the light side, still screw people over from time to time. If Bioware was writing Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon style wit and deception, those actions would net you dark side points.
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Dec 10, 2016 01:25
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That's kind of the point of Star Wars though - idealism is good and pragmatism is evil. Killing Darth Vader is sensible, but it's also the wrong choice. Revan's hawkishness is what sends them to the Dark Side in the first place, after all.
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Dec 10, 2016 01:30
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Arcsquad12 posted:The trouble is that you're playing as Revan, though. Much as KOTOR 2 is responsible for expanding his character immensely, Revan as presented in the first game is still more complex than the Light/Dark dichotomy allows. A big moment that points this out is on Kashyyyk when you face off with the Rakatan personality tester. The light side options are not feasible military tactics, while the dark side options are, so choosing what is strategically the correct option nets you dark side points, thereby lowering your force power bonuses to light side powers. Toeing the line in KOTOR 1 just makes all of your force powers more expensive to use and weaker as well. What is this???
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Dec 10, 2016 01:31
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A Buff Gay Dude posted:What is this??? it's actually extremely relevant because half of what me1 was (the one you liked), was due to bioware doing a find->replace on KOTOR, cutting out the D&D feats, and trying to shoehorn it into a shooter. also they ripped off the mineral harvester from star control 2.
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Dec 10, 2016 01:34
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Arcsquad12 posted:The trouble is that you're playing as Revan, though. Much as KOTOR 2 is responsible for expanding his character immensely, Revan as presented in the first game is still more complex than the Light/Dark dichotomy allows. A big moment that points this out is on Kashyyyk when you face off with the Rakatan personality tester. The light side options are not feasible military tactics, while the dark side options are, so choosing what is strategically the correct option nets you dark side points, thereby lowering your force power bonuses to light side powers. Toeing the line in KOTOR 1 just makes all of your force powers more expensive to use and weaker as well. sir this is a citadel docking bay
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Dec 10, 2016 01:36
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From memory one answer to those scenarios it to reject them as being modified by Revan to support his worldview.
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Dec 10, 2016 01:37
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Cowcaster posted:it's actually extremely relevant because half of what me1 was (the one you liked), was due to bioware doing a find->replace on KOTOR, cutting out the D&D feats, and trying to shoehorn it into a shooter. also they ripped off the mineral harvester from star control 2. Yes but I'm talking about how I think he's taking some wrong lessons from the options and how they should be viewed in the SW universe.
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Dec 10, 2016 01:45
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I hope Mass Effect: Andromeda owns and has doesn't have too much dumb stuff in it!!!!!
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Dec 10, 2016 01:46
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Cowcaster posted:it's actually extremely relevant because half of what me1 was (the one you liked), was due to bioware doing a find->replace on KOTOR, cutting out the D&D feats, and trying to shoehorn it into a shooter. also they ripped off the mineral harvester from star control 2. 
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Dec 10, 2016 01:49
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Star Control was super greatwe should be so lucky as to have Bioware rip it off.
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Dec 10, 2016 01:50
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A Buff Gay Dude posted:Yes but I'm talking about how I think he's taking some wrong lessons from the options and how they should be viewed in the SW universe. The Star Wars universe doesn't have a rule that says "Light Side means doing the altruistic thing even if it is stupid." Bioware writing, meanwhile, says "Do this very stupid thing and get brownie points."
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Dec 10, 2016 01:54
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I don't remember the light side options being particularly stupid (but it's been a while). The dark side ones were cartoonishly evil, but that's fine for the setting.
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Dec 10, 2016 01:56
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Arcsquad12 posted:The Star Wars universe doesn't have a rule that says "Light Side means doing the altruistic thing even if it is stupid." Bioware writing, meanwhile, says "Do this very stupid thing and get brownie points." "do this very stupid thing and win anyways because you, the protagonist, can just murder your way through it"
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Dec 10, 2016 01:56
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Pattonesque posted:"do this very stupid thing and win anyways because you, the protagonist, can just murder your way through it" Yeah that's every Bioware game though and in fact almost every game from any non-indie developer.
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Dec 10, 2016 02:02
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here's a hot take for you: plot point for plot point the mass effect series is almost identical to that of quirky and forgotten game star control 3. complete with good precursors, bad precursors, and hot blue alien space babes.wikipedia posted:SC3's story expanded on the mystery of the Precursors' disappearance, and introduced new enemies in the form of the Hegemonic Crux.
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Dec 10, 2016 02:06
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Holy guacamole!
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Dec 10, 2016 02:22
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I'm 'sentience energy'
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Dec 10, 2016 02:32
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Pattonesque posted:I hope Mass Effect: Andromeda owns and has doesn't have too much dumb stuff in it!!!!! namaste
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Dec 10, 2016 02:35
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i hope it has blue boobs on it
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Dec 10, 2016 02:43
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Moola posted:i hope it has blue boobs on it i feel bad for riling up the thread as much as i have because i'm used to the overwatch thread coming in and re-railing my fuckups with admonition and 300 pictures of pharah making out with a fire hydrant
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Dec 10, 2016 02:46
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https://gfycat.com/PresentPlumpErmine ??????
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Dec 10, 2016 02:48
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gently caress yeah Quarians confirmed
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Dec 10, 2016 03:40
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Worst race confirmed *sigh*
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Dec 10, 2016 03:47
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I think Obama should issue an executive order forcing Bioware and Obsidian to merge.
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Dec 10, 2016 03:47
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Jack2142 posted:I think Obama should issue an executive order forcing Bioware and Obsidian to merge. Mass Effect: New Omega
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Dec 10, 2016 03:48
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SgtSteel91 posted:gently caress yeah Quarians confirmed Pretty much all of them are going to become like them sooner or later depending on how many planets they can actually live on.
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Dec 10, 2016 03:51
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