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Chill la Chill posted:Do they have a compelling reason why they don't want to grind modern events instead? They want to keep their 4c rally and coco lists.
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Dec 11, 2016 15:39
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Chill la Chill posted:Do they have a compelling reason why they don't want to grind modern events instead? They have all the good frontier cards basically. So much that is good in that format lost all value after rotation that it was incredibly hard to move so everyone still has all of it. Baby jace is basically the only thing that held value and its only at that because people bought it at such a high price point.
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Dec 11, 2016 15:54
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Sickening posted:From discussing this hot topic for a week now at events , it seems the standard grinders who don't enjoy standard right now want frontier. This has not been my experience or my opinion. But then again I really like standard right now.
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Dec 11, 2016 16:36
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Sickening posted:They have all the good frontier cards basically. So much that is good in that format lost all value after rotation that it was incredibly hard to move so everyone still has all of it. Baby jace is basically the only thing that held value and its only at that because people bought it at such a high price point. Like how Whisperwood went from $10 to less than a dollar, and Deathmist dropped from $20 to about a dollar, right?
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Dec 11, 2016 16:39
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Sickening posted:They have all the good frontier cards basically. So much that is good in that format lost all value after rotation that it was incredibly hard to move so everyone still has all of it. Baby jace is basically the only thing that held value and its only at that because people bought it at such a high price point. I thought it was already common practice to shift out of your standard playables months before the actual grinder season ended, but I guess this is still a good way to move your otherwise worthless singles. I'm just more confused since I thought p much everyone who was a standard grinder shifted into modern the past year or two anyway which is what caused this slump in the first place.
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Dec 11, 2016 16:40
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when people use the term grinder, are they referring to people who just like to play constantly, or someone trying to get onto the pro circuit? (or something else entirely?)
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Dec 11, 2016 16:45
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I don't have any problem with frontier, it's fun to play magic and I appreciate that people are trying to find new fun ways to play it. The format does seem like it's going to be easily solved though with fetches + BFZ duals and no way to punish greedy mana.
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Dec 11, 2016 16:47
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little munchkin posted:I don't have any problem with frontier, it's fun to play magic and I appreciate that people are trying to find new fun ways to play it. The format does seem like it's going to be easily solved though with fetches + BFZ duals and no way to punish greedy mana. The problem is if it cannibalizes events of other formats. But that isn't gonna happen just like Tiny Leaders didn't.
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Dec 11, 2016 16:50
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mcmagic posted:The problem is if it cannibalizes events of other formats. But that isn't gonna happen just like Tiny Leaders didn't. Yea that's kind of the reason I'm not into it. I already play 1-2 times a week through modern and draft. That's plenty, I don't need another format.
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Dec 11, 2016 16:51
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Imagine trying to make Modern because you were bored with Kamigawa/Mirrodin standard. That's what trying to push Frontier now is like.
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Dec 11, 2016 16:55
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little munchkin posted:when people use the term grinder, are they referring to people who just like to play constantly, or someone trying to get onto the pro circuit? (or something else entirely?)
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Dec 11, 2016 16:56
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IMO the only good argument for Frontier is that there is a (seemingly) viable Goblins deck for which I have everything that would get expensive, but other than that I would much rather play Modern and I don't get to do that enough so 
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Dec 11, 2016 17:04
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Instead of Post-Modern or Frontier, we should just call the format  Because that's all it honestly is.
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Dec 11, 2016 17:06
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So what's everyone doing with their Standard Showdown packs? Hoarding them, selling them right away, or opening them? A 1/33 chance to get more than 25 cents store credit worth of cards doesn't seem worth it to me. We did get thirteen players for Standard yesterday, which is the most any store has gotten for a Standard event in months. Of course, no one's going to continue playing once there's no scratch-off ticket-style incentive.
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Dec 11, 2016 17:07
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little munchkin posted:when people use the term grinder, are they referring to people who just like to play constantly, or someone trying to get onto the pro circuit? (or something else entirely?) There are folks who show up to every pptq and/or every IQ to grind out every opportunity to qualify.
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Dec 11, 2016 17:09
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BJPaskoff posted:So what's everyone doing with their Standard Showdown packs? Hoarding them, selling them right away, or opening them? A 1/33 chance to get more than 25 cents store credit worth of cards doesn't seem worth it to me. I'm a moron so I've just cracked all one's I've gotten so far. I've seen about 40 them opened and the best thing Ive seen is a Foil Spirebluff Canal. It's a scam.
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Dec 11, 2016 17:09
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Chill la Chill posted:I thought it was already common practice to shift out of your standard playables months before the actual grinder season ended, but I guess this is still a good way to move your otherwise worthless singles. I'm just more confused since I thought p much everyone who was a standard grinder shifted into modern the past year or two anyway which is what caused this slump in the first place. If you are shifting out standard playable a month before the season ends you are only getting to play with the cards for what? 6-8 weeks? Seems terrible.
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Dec 11, 2016 17:10
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Sickening posted:If you are shifting out standard playable a month before the season ends you are only getting to play with the cards for what? 6-8 weeks? Seems terrible. It's not that bad, there are always decks that primarily use cards from the newest sets that aren't rotating out in whatever definition of "soon" we're using here. So someone can trade their older but still legal Standard cards for new Standard cards and keep playing.
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Dec 11, 2016 18:03
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My LGS has had showdown packs open 3 expeditions in 2 weeks. Win some/lose some.
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Dec 11, 2016 18:09
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So upon review of the card pool I'm thinking Frontier could..... actually.. be kind of a sweet format. It's gonna take a few key bannings to make it fair magic but if you gave the axe to, say, CoCo, Rally, DTT, Treasure Cruise and one of either JVP or the fetches I think it could actually be a reasonably cool new way to play, at least in a few months when there's a few more sets involved. What would you guys ban out of Frontier?
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Dec 11, 2016 19:28
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sit on my Facebook posted:So upon review of the card pool I'm thinking Frontier could..... actually.. be kind of a sweet format. It's gonna take a few key bannings to make it fair magic but if you gave the axe to, say, CoCo, Rally, DTT, Treasure Cruise and one of either JVP or the fetches I think it could actually be a reasonably cool new way to play, at least in a few months when there's a few more sets involved. Mmm yes rhino vs eldrazi what a fun format.
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Dec 11, 2016 19:30
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Yeah yeah yeah obligatory detached cynicism but if you look at mtggoldfishes meta breakdown there assists to be several strategies that compete with the Rhinodrazi menace. It's actually Rally that is the degenerate card.
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Dec 11, 2016 19:32
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sit on my Facebook posted:Yeah yeah yeah obligatory detached cynicism but if you look at mtggoldfishes meta breakdown there assists to be several strategies that compete with the Rhinodrazi menace. It's actually Rally that is the degenerate card. So, frontier is a good format if you ban the key cards in most of the top decks. Got it.
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Dec 11, 2016 19:40
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I just started playing magic again this year, so my oldest cards are KTK block. I play standard because I enjoy the game as a new player and have no issue learning a few blocks of cards, I cannot memorize the 10+ years of old cards that modern has, I'd like to learn to play modern but not having a way to get good cards without spending 700+ dollars is nuts. I'll just keep playing standard until more reprints happen, and at a cost I could actually afford, I'd love to try out merfolk, jund, elves, etc but the only way I'm going to ever get to play them is by printing off proxy decks and playing at my kitchen table vs a friend or two.
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Dec 11, 2016 19:41
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Cactrot posted:So, frontier is a good format if you ban the key cards in most of the top decks. Got it. Lol yes I understand that everything about Frontier right now is dumb and likely bad I'm just trying to spark some discussion here Your logic isn't really sound by the way. If any card is worthy of a ban it will obviously be a key card in top decks before getting banned, this is true of every banned card in every format.
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Dec 11, 2016 19:47
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Maybe Frontier should simmer for a bit before trying to make it a format, give it some more time. At the moment it will just be Last Year's Creature-Based Value Instants vs. Last Year's Creature-Based Midrange Haymakers, because it doesn't have the card pool for anything else. This is more like being in Ravnica/Kamigawa and trying to get away from Gifts Ungiven by trying Modern.
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Dec 11, 2016 20:00
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TwistedNails posted:I just started playing magic again this year, so my oldest cards are KTK block. I play standard because I enjoy the game as a new player and have no issue learning a few blocks of cards, I cannot memorize the 10+ years of old cards that modern has, I'd like to learn to play modern but not having a way to get good cards without spending 700+ dollars is nuts. I'll just keep playing standard until more reprints happen, and at a cost I could actually afford, I'd love to try out merfolk, jund, elves, etc but the only way I'm going to ever get to play them is by printing off proxy decks and playing at my kitchen table vs a friend or two. You can build a solid Modern Elves deck for like $100-200, which is also the price of most competitive standard decks, with the added upside that you can use the deck forever and all the expensive cards are cards that will likely hold their value if you later decide to trade them in for something else as opposed to cards that are going to go from $20 to $1 as soon as they rotate. sit on my Facebook posted:Lol yes I understand that everything about Frontier right now is dumb and likely bad I'm just trying to spark some discussion here I think he's more referring to the fact that the format as it stands is almost entirely defined by cards that are likely suspects for the first ban list, and it has never existed in any other form. Who the gently caress knows what the format will look like after you ban all the cards it's built around.
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Dec 11, 2016 20:03
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BJPaskoff posted:So what's everyone doing with their Standard Showdown packs? Hoarding them, selling them right away, or opening them? A 1/33 chance to get more than 25 cents store credit worth of cards doesn't seem worth it to me. I've gotten one pack so far, opened it, and got a Spell Queller and a foil full-art Island, so I guess I should quit while I'm ahead.
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Dec 11, 2016 20:14
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I've played Frontier quite a bit and it's fine for just having some fun with cards that would otherwise rot. I've got a GW Devotion deck that can actually close games thanks to Felidar Sovereign. It actually runs better with Cryptolith Rites than it ever did with Nykthos. It's missing Courser, but those just became Selfless Spirits, anyway. The only real thing I'd do to the format is ban the fetches to make the mana not as near perfect as it is and slow down graveyard fillers. I think you've got a real level playing field once Rally has to make compromises on mana. I think it'd also be nice, if this format continues, to have an eternal format without fetchlands in it as an alternative.
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Dec 11, 2016 20:24
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mcmagic posted:I'm a moron so I've just cracked all one's I've gotten so far. I've seen about 40 them opened and the best thing Ive seen is a Foil Spirebluff Canal. It's a scam. I got two yesterday and opened a mausoleum wanderer and a painful truths. The guy next to me got a ol ring. All in all, it was worth the zero dollars it cost. Only 8 people showed up so we all got two showdown packs each.
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Dec 11, 2016 20:32
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keeblerdrow posted:I think it'd also be nice, if this format continues, to have an eternal format without fetchlands in it as an alternative. Frontier is not an eternal format.
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Dec 11, 2016 20:35
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MisterOblivious posted:Frontier is not an eternal format. I think it's supposed to be actually.
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Dec 11, 2016 20:48
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mcmagic posted:I think it's supposed to be actually. He's just being pedantic about 'eternal' vs 'non-rotating'.
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Dec 11, 2016 20:52
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mcmagic posted:I think it's supposed to be actually. Then we don't have to worry about Rally or Coco when we have Necropotence and JTMS to deal with first.
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Dec 11, 2016 20:54
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Actually letting EMA and friends be legal is more interesting than the current proposal, do that.
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Dec 11, 2016 20:59
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Actually letting EMA and friends be legal is more interesting than the current proposal, do that. Frontier including sets like EMA would make me 180 on my opinion. Because a format where I get to play Duck Faygo for not several thousand bucks sounds like a good deal to me.
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Dec 11, 2016 21:05
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EMA suddenly being Modern Legal would make Magic amazing
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Dec 11, 2016 21:09
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The actual problem with core sets is that they didn't include Force of Will. Should've been Force Sets.
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Dec 11, 2016 21:14
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:This is more like being in Ravnica/Kamigawa and trying to get away from Gifts Ungiven by trying Modern. So what you're saying is that instead, we only have to wait for the next block to come out and we'll have one of the more amazing Standards ever? I can dig it.
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Dec 11, 2016 21:35
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Actually letting EMA and friends be legal is more interesting than the current proposal, do that. If it was "anything with a current border" I would absolutely play Frontier.
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Dec 11, 2016 22:28
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