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Crazycryodude posted:On a more serious note (and to try and steer the MilHist thread back towards MilHist), this got me thinking. Has there ever been a war where people on opposite sides were even as remotely connected as they are in some wars today? All the drat time. Civil wars and revolts had brothers fighting brothers all too frequently and in the most literal sense of the word. Random example I can think of from WW2, some fathers would send a son to join the partizans, and another to join the chetniks, to maximize the chance of at least a part of the family surviving. Sometimes ended with a son being forced to execute the father to prove ideological purity while the father tries to convey a "Do it, now!" via glare.
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Dec 11, 2016 23:10
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Well if you think of it, just about every war in Europe up to WW1 was between cousins of some sort...Slim Jim Pickens posted:Let's be real here, they're going to be loaders. Future tanks don't have loaders or crewed turrets for that matter (or crewed anything, possibly) is my prediction. Going all teletank might not be practical but technically it's already feasible. Which means that World of Tanks is really just a scheme by time travellers from the future for scouting for new tank commanders, The Last Starfighter style. Nenonen fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Dec 11, 2016 |
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Dec 11, 2016 23:12
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TerminalSaint posted:American Civil War? Or the American Revolution. It's probably not uncommon at all in any civil war or revolution that isn't fought along very distinct lines like race or class or religion. Even in those cases, the combatants might still be acquaintances, clients, bosses, etc.
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Dec 11, 2016 23:15
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Fusion Restaurant posted:Can anyone tell me more about how forts in the Netherlands used flooding as a defense? Learned a bit about it today that supposedly they planned to use cannons to blow up dams but not rly and it sounds crazy. Seconding this! I know a little bit about the Nieuwe Water Linie and how it was supposed to work but not nearly enough for a effort post.
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Dec 11, 2016 23:24
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my dad posted:There were goons on the opposing sides of the war in Ukraine. I say "were" because I'm pretty sure the Russian one is dead now. Explains why he stopped posting in the "ask me about invading Ukraine" thread.
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Dec 12, 2016 00:08
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Crazycryodude posted:The Something Awful forums: meet interesting new people and possibly kill them. my dad posted:All the drat time. Civil wars and revolts had brothers fighting brothers all too frequently and in the most literal sense of the word. Random example I can think of from WW2, some fathers would send a son to join the partizans, and another to join the chetniks, to maximize the chance of at least a part of the family surviving. Sometimes ended with a son being forced to execute the father to prove ideological purity while the father tries to convey a "Do it, now!" via glare.
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Dec 12, 2016 00:25
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HEY GAL posted:
Yup. That branch of the family moved over right after one of the 1840s clusterfucks in Germany and the head of the family wanted to make sure we were on the winning side, because gently caress moving again. It was one of the boarder states where people went both ways. The confederate deserted and walked home me after it became obvious how poo poo was going to turn out so a true believer he wasn't.
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Dec 12, 2016 00:36
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What's that book you talk about, Cyrano the one with the german POW who doesn't like Hitler but thinks the final solution was awesome.
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Dec 12, 2016 00:50
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Ensign Expendable posted:You need physical strength to be a loader. There's a Current Syrian Events joke somewhere here.
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Dec 12, 2016 01:26
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Cyrano4747 posted:Yup. That branch of the family moved over right after one of the 1840s clusterfucks in Germany and the head of the family wanted to make sure we were on the winning side, because gently caress moving again. It was one of the boarder states where people went both ways.
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Dec 12, 2016 01:28
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GreyjoyBastard posted:There's a Current Syrian Events joke somewhere here. The Current Syrian Events joke is that you might as well start eating popcorn and wait for pics of ISIS owned Leopard tanks to show up within a reasonable timeframe.
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Dec 12, 2016 01:42
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Beevor's The Second World War is today's Audible Daily Deal. I know it's been mentioned here before, but I don't remember the consensus. Good? Bad?
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Dec 12, 2016 01:58
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ThingOne posted:There was a definite distinction between Mongols, non-Mongols, and Chinese people in Mongol law but it was more of a "pay a 15 goat fine instead of 5" sort of deal than a "hold my kumis, I'm gonna put an arrow through that foreigner's eye". Right. I just take exception to the idea that they wouldn't even recognize non Mongols as human. It reminds me of that old bs about Aztecs having their minds broken by Spanish caravels because for some reason big boats with sails are just too goddamn crazy to comprehend
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Dec 12, 2016 02:35
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I'm shocked that y'all are having a slapfight about AP classes instead of screaming at me about Spengler.  What's happened to this thread? MisterMarmite posted:Beevor's The Second World War is today's Audible Daily Deal. I know it's been mentioned here before, but I don't remember the consensus. Good? Bad? Beevor is Good.
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Dec 12, 2016 02:47
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MisterMarmite posted:Beevor's The Second World War is today's Audible Daily Deal. I know it's been mentioned here before, but I don't remember the consensus. Good? Bad? Good, but his earlier stuff (Stalingrad, Berlin, Spanish Civil War) is better than his newer stuff.
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Dec 12, 2016 03:16
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Monocled Falcon posted:What's that book you talk about, Cyrano the one with the german POW who doesn't like Hitler but thinks the final solution was awesome. Defer to Cyrano for obvious reasons but pretty sure it's Soldaten, now Soldiers: German POWs on fighting, killing, And dying https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B007QPH5FK/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1481509414&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=soldaten
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Dec 12, 2016 03:25
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ulmont posted:Defer to Cyrano for obvious reasons but pretty sure it's Soldaten, now Soldiers: German POWs on fighting, killing, I'm not the one who's always pimping it but I'm pretty sure that's the one.
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Dec 12, 2016 03:54
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wdarkk posted:It just occurred to me that it's quite possible that a war in the near future might result in people who played World of Tanks/War Thunder commanding real tanks against each other. I've got a friend who drives an Abrams that I play War Thunder with. The future is now.
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Dec 12, 2016 04:08
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HEY GAL posted:as far as i know, one branch of my family was in the ACW. they were cryptojews who settled in the border and they joined both armies. cav, mostly. cryptojews = hidden jews? I'm thinking cryptozoology here
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Dec 12, 2016 04:15
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Nebakenezzer posted:cryptojews = hidden jews? I'm thinking cryptozoology here Jews
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Dec 12, 2016 04:19
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So I'm a regular history nerd experimenting with becoming a military history nerd. What's a good, visual book on the Napoleonic wars? I listened to a great Audible bio about the man himself a while back but its hard for me to understand the actual battles themselves in that format. I need like, maps and poo poo.
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Dec 12, 2016 04:27
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Medium Tank Mk.II Queue: Light Tank M2, Combat Car T4, Char B, TK-3, Medium Tank Mk.II, Medium Tank Mk.III, KH-50 et al, PzIV, PzIII Ausf. A, PzIII Ausf. B through D Available for request:  T2E1 Light Tank M3A1 Combat Car M1  A1E1 Independent Infantry Tank Mk.I  LTP T-37 with ShKAS ZIK-20 T-12 and T-24 HTZ-16 Wartime modifications of the T-37 and T-38 SG-122 76 mm gun mod of the Matilda Tank destroyers on the T-30 and T-40 chassis  L-10 and L-30 Strv m/40 Strv m/42 Landsverk prototypes 1943-1951 NEW  Trials of the TKS and C2P in the USSR 37 mm anti-tank gun  SR tanks  Renault NC Renault D1 Renault R35 Renault D2 Renault R40 Char B1 bis NEW  PzI Ausf. B PzI Ausf. C PzII Ausf. a though b Pak 97/38 Pz.Sfl.IVb Ensign Expendable fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 04:45
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Do T-55 again! Also, anything to do with Pz.III, the sexy medium panzer (Tiger I still a BBT waifu) ED: our history teacher had a way of promoting critical thinking or at the cery least thinking about the context of the events that are happening. As far as Lithuania goes, either you're smart and you finish 12 grades, then go to uni, or you're some idiot who went to a trade/technical school or collage (dunno if the kolegija is the same thing) or worse: finish the mandated 10 grades and then go technical. Less then 10 grades means that you steal metal for a living, beat your partner (sugyventine is a woman-you-live-with-unmarried, a word usually used in news about domestic violence) and the cops know you very well. Recently, the two offshoots of this are "you're an idiot if you don't study abroad" and "you're an idiot if you study, rah rah rah startup spirit". It's kinda hosed is what I'm saying. JcDent fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 07:57
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WW2 Data Medium and High Capacity Bombs are the theme of the day with two notable examples on display. The Tallboy and Grand Slam are both included, as well some more obscure stuff. Why was the MC 500lb Bomb Mk V not used in service? What could be attached to the nose of bombs, and what purpose did it serve? All that and more at the blog! Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 08:31
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HEY GAL posted:as far as i know, one branch of my family was in the ACW. they were cryptojews who settled in the border and they joined both armies. cav, mostly. Cryptojews? I'd been aware of them as part of the Diaspora but thought that was kind of over with by the time of the ACW. Were they like really-really deep cover, like they'd been nominally [majority religion] since the Spanish expulsion or something? Or was it a more recent thing? Fuligin posted:Right. I just take exception to the idea that they wouldn't even recognize non Mongols as human. It reminds me of that old bs about Aztecs having their minds broken by Spanish caravels because for some reason big boats with sails are just too goddamn crazy to comprehend This one makes a little bit of sense to me, given the sensationalism of the primary sources and of current pop history. I'd willingly believe that the Aztecs (or Tlaxcallans? who actually lived on the shores where Cortez landed?) saw the Spanish ships and went " Sort of like the first couple Allied pilots to see the ME-262 in action. Shocked less by the unfamiliar object and more by the implications of what it looked like and could do. e2: ^^^^^ is all Hardcore History-level conjecture with no consultation whatsoever with any primary or secondary sources. I didn't even watch Apocalypto all the way through, just got to the part where the guy rubbed peppers on his junk. Grand Prize Winner fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 08:36
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my dad posted:All the drat time. Civil wars and revolts had brothers fighting brothers all too frequently and in the most literal sense of the word. Random example I can think of from WW2, some fathers would send a son to join the partizans, and another to join the chetniks, to maximize the chance of at least a part of the family surviving. Indeed, during the English Civil War gentry families would send one son to fight for one side and one for the other to hedge their bets (since if your family backed the losing side, you were likely to have your estate confiscated). Unfortunately, as it turned out Parliament won and then a decade later there was the Restoration, so you could still end up hosed either way if you were unlucky.
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Dec 12, 2016 13:23
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JcDent posted:As far as Lithuania goes, either you're smart and you finish 12 grades, then go to uni, or you're some idiot who went to a trade/technical school or collage (dunno if the kolegija is the same thing) or worse: finish the mandated 10 grades and then go technical. Less then 10 grades means that you steal metal for a living, beat your partner (sugyventine is a woman-you-live-with-unmarried, a word usually used in news about domestic violence) and the cops know you very well. Recently, the two offshoots of this are "you're an idiot if you don't study abroad" and "you're an idiot if you study, rah rah rah startup spirit". If you're smart, you score high in 12th grade exams and go to university. If you stay until 12th grade but do badly your options are go to trade/tech school, do an apprenticeship with an employer directly hiring you (they organise and send you to trade school), or repeat subjects in night school while working menial jobs and have a go at university later. 20 years ago you could leave at year 10 and have the same options as someone who did badly at 12th grade, ie trade or tech college, but the government has been pushing since back then to make grade 12 the minimum for entry into anything and shutting down many tech and trade schools to make it harder. So you need yr 12 to even get into trade school these days if self applying. But before that restriction many people made big money skipping 11th and 12th grade, going straight into trade/tech schools and getting into construction and resources industries as we had lots of poo poo to dig up and to build in Australia. E: your "sugyventine" is called "de facto" here. Fo3 fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 13:39
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Mantis42 posted:So I'm a regular history nerd experimenting with becoming a military history nerd. What's a good, visual book on the Napoleonic wars? I listened to a great Audible bio about the man himself a while back but its hard for me to understand the actual battles themselves in that format. I need like, maps and poo poo. Depends on what you are looking at. Do you want tactics and operations? Campaign overviews? Theater-level books? Grand strategy? The Man Himself? There isn't really One Good Book. A couple things by David G Chandler are decent: "On the Napoleonic Wars" covers a bunch of engagements and is pretty interesting, but very light on the overall strategy - more about tactics and operations in different battles in different phases of the war. It has some maps. "The Campaigns of Napoleon" is also quite good, focused more on the man. "Napoleon's Invasion of Russia" by George Hereford is rather decent, I think, but I don't know how far the scholarship has progressed since then, and it may be difficult to find. This is in the "campaign overview" category of books. "Swords Around A Throne" by John Elting is loving incredible, focused entirely on the Grand Armee, but it is not a good starting point. edit: A couple others I thought of. "The Art of Warfare in the Age of Napoleon" is supposedly fairly decent as a survey on the evolution of warfare during the timeperiod but having read Swords Around A Throne it seems like it would be redundant for me. Chandler's "Napoleon's Marshals" is good. There's a new book of the same title by another guy, not sure if it's an improvement or not. There are also a bunch of books on tactics, mostly for tabletop wargaming nerds. Full of pictures, most seem to be accurate enough for an intro, but they're not going to talk about much from an operational let alone strategic perspective. KYOON GRIFFEY JR fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 14:23
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Cyrano4747 posted:You had some terrible intro history profs. You have to start hammering critical thinking and analysis there so students are actually capable of it for a upper level seminar. I hated university because of this. A lot of other reasons as well, but I hated that I couldn't argue "Why the gently caress are we studying whether it was pamphlets or magazines that caused the French Revolution. Why am I being told all this poo poo and not being told anything about the Revolution itself." That and everyone expecting you to know dates for everything. Say what you will about Wikipedia being poo poo, it often is, but for timelines alone I found it invaluable.
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Dec 12, 2016 14:58
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Cryptojews? I'd been aware of them as part of the Diaspora but thought that was kind of over with by the time of the ACW. Were they like really-really deep cover, like they'd been nominally [majority religion] since the Spanish expulsion or something? Edit: the last member of my family who did not eat pork, but by then I'm not sure they knew why, was my grandfather's grandmother. Which is a pretty long time to keep the chain going.
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Dec 12, 2016 15:07
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ulmont posted:Defer to Cyrano for obvious reasons but pretty sure it's Soldaten, now Soldiers: German POWs on fighting, killing, I'm the one who is always pimping this book because it's great, and yes, it has devoted Nazis who think the Jews are getting a bum deal and outspoken opponents who say "you know, the one thing the Fuhrer has got absolutely right is the response to the Jewish problem". It's not all they talk about, either. Who wanted movie recommendations? If you want to see what Blackadder Goes Forth would have been like if the French had made it, a French movie called "Black and White in Colour" is currently available on a popular video-sharing website with subtitles; in which a French border village in a colony in Africa receives news of the war at New Year 1915, immediately declares war on the identical German-administered village across the border, and hilarity ensues while the locals poke fun at the stupid white people.
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Dec 12, 2016 17:04
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HEY GAL posted:yes they were! they left spain, went to Germany, "converted" to the Dunker religion, and from Germany went to America. I found tons of them in Confederate rolls, Augustus or Frederich Spanishname, it was great. . . . And that confederate musterschreiber's name was Cpl. Hyronimous You are making more sense by the second :v Out of curiosity what state were they in?
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Dec 12, 2016 17:20
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Trin Tragula posted:I'm the one who is always pimping this book because it's great, and yes, it has devoted Nazis who think the Jews are getting a bum deal and outspoken opponents who say "you know, the one thing the Fuhrer has got absolutely right is the response to the Jewish problem". It's not all they talk about, either. Let's look at the one star reviews! Readers expecting a collection of war experiences from German soldiers will find instead a psychological nalysis of soldiers and officers who have witnessed or taken part in mass extermination of Jews and civilian resistance fighters during World War II. After a few pages it wears on the psyche. Let's stop looking at the one star reviews!
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Dec 12, 2016 17:27
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I mean, there's probably way worse reviews than someone saying that reading about witnessing genocide wears on the psyche.
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Dec 12, 2016 18:25
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:I mean, there's probably way worse reviews than someone saying that reading about witnessing genocide wears on the psyche. There are only 4 one stars. The top one is the worse because it goes "It's very one sided for all these books to keep pointing out how we did war crimes"
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Dec 12, 2016 18:28
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Josef bugman posted:There are only 4 one stars. The top one is the worse because it goes "It's very one sided for all these books to keep pointing out how we did war crimes" I'm not a fan at all of Angel Merkel but I still appreciate the fact she said that Germany did in fact do the Holocaust and was remorseful about it when Bibi tried to pin the blame on the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.
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Dec 12, 2016 18:54
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Time Commanders Series 3 preview! It's heart warming to see the old professor is even back. Josef bugman posted:There are only 4 one stars. The top one is the worse because it goes "It's very one sided for all these books to keep pointing out how we did war crimes" "Wa wa, I'm a Nazi and I'm so siiiicck of you guys mentioning waaaaaar crrriiiimmeeeeesss all the time!"
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Dec 12, 2016 18:59
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There was an article posted in the Eastern Europe DnD thread a while back about two Scandanavian neo-Nazis who were friends but joined different sides in the Ukrainian conflict- although both were insistent that the real root cause was, of course, the Jews.
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Dec 12, 2016 19:01
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What bastards. Anywho, lets talk about more endearing people instead. Today I read the war brief diary extract of a British soldier in the Boer War. Hop topics? marching, more marching, loss of quality boots/trousers. Not enough food. Poor chum died of wounds from the previous battle (we had a battle, I was tired). More marching. God we need more food. What a lovely painful march, MUST SMILE!
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Dec 12, 2016 19:05
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:I mean, there's probably way worse reviews than someone saying that reading about witnessing genocide wears on the psyche. On the face of it sure, but what are you expecting from German soldiers talking about their past? It's kinda gross to me that someone could be looking for a nice light read about what German soldiers on the Eastern Front, and that that sort of thing probably is common enough that what he got was a surprise.
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Dec 12, 2016 19:11
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