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TOOT BOOT posted:I only played one game to completion but I couldn't disagree more. It felt like someone's custom map using Dota assets it was so different.  Like we're still hitting creeps and fighting outside the rosh pit and diving towers. Now I have +15% magic resistance instead of +2 stats but that doesn't feel like a big change.
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Dec 12, 2016 01:38
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Definitely just nutted in my jorts thinking about bloodseeker with new mask of madness
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Dec 12, 2016 01:39
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Patch seems real good and seeing the whining here and elsewhere only confirms that for me.
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Dec 12, 2016 01:57
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I don't understand the hype around new mask of madness, isn't it basically the same as old mask but now it silences you? Also it's weird seeing JPJ freak out about the game being moved toward an arena brawler type game because every patch since 6.82 has been moving it in that direction. At some point you need to throw up your arms and realize that Valve ruined a perfectly interesting and complicated game but also that they did that a long loving time ago. Hard carries are now more useless than ever, get used to playing Ogre every game from now on.
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Dec 12, 2016 01:58
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Reinstalling. I haven't been this excited for Dota since I got into the early days of the beta.
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Dec 12, 2016 01:59
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Angrymantium posted:I don't understand the hype around new mask of madness, isn't it basically the same as old mask but now it silences you? new mask of madness is undispellable and makes you take more physical damage because of the -5 armor and silences you and does not increase magical or pure damage at all, also when you buy the recipe you lose the damage from the morbid mask
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Dec 12, 2016 02:01
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-5 armor is not the same thing as "25% bonus damage taken"
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Dec 12, 2016 02:01
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violent sex idiot posted:new mask of madness is undispellable and makes you take more physical damage because of the -5 armor and silences you and does not increase magical or pure damage at all, also when you buy the recipe you lose the damage from the morbid mask Radical posted:-5 armor is not the same thing as "25% bonus damage taken" Oh poo poo that's big. Time to start playing carry spirit breaker again
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Dec 12, 2016 02:04
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violent sex idiot posted:new mask of madness is undispellable and makes you take more physical damage because of the -5 armor and silences you and does not increase magical or pure damage at all, also when you buy the recipe you lose the damage from the morbid mask Provides: +15% Lifesteal +15 Damage Active ability - Berserk
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Dec 12, 2016 02:04
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more like dICK posted:Provides: im stupid
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Dec 12, 2016 02:05
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violent sex idiot posted:im stupid 
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Dec 12, 2016 02:06
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where do i go to complain about a really stupid choice in the interface: on the pre game screen where you buy poo poo you can see obs and courier purchase but not sentries or smokes edit: purchased by your team jsoh fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 02:06
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Angrymantium posted:I don't understand the hype around new mask of madness, isn't it basically the same as old mask but now it silences you? People got bored of the long rear end passive farm for 40mins meta so IceFrog and Valve pushed the game towards quicker games and more things to do early game.
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Dec 12, 2016 02:07
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It's indisputable fact that the longer the game goes the more exciting it gets sooo
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Dec 12, 2016 02:12
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incorrect
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Dec 12, 2016 02:19
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should have changed something to even up melee and ranged barracks so ranged arent worthless tbh imo
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Dec 12, 2016 02:19
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When dota shows mana for enemy heroes the game will have truly jumped the shark. So, any day now.
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Dec 12, 2016 02:23
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Ragingsheep posted:People got bored of the long rear end passive farm for 40mins meta so IceFrog and Valve pushed the game towards quicker games and more things to do early game. There might be a middle ground between passive farmfests and the absolute davai meta that we've been moving toward. Carries don't have anywhere close to the game impact they used, and the emphasis on teamwork sounds good except if you're a solo queue player and suddenly you start losing games because dragging the four idiots randomly assigned to you to a win just got much harder and more painful. It shows in tournaments too where games are usually won early by supports rotating on mid or the safelane, and games have generally shifted 100% away from farmfests to the poo poo in Boston where both teams would constantly walk around in smoke hoping to catch one hero off guard. Whether you think brawling from minute one is good or simplistic, the impact of an individual player is way below where it was anywhere around or before TI3. With RTS' also dying out as a genre there isn't really anywhere for people that enjoyed older dota patches to go.
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Dec 12, 2016 02:25
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drunken officeparty posted:It takes away being able to skip abilities for stats which was important on some heroes and comedy builds i'm glad cuz the burning build was dumb as poo poo.
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Dec 12, 2016 02:26
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Zoolooman posted:Suppose this game is objectively worse with this patch and you are 100% correct--these changes are for the worst. I think that opinion is mostly shared by the people who only watch TI or Majors or whatever. And I'm not sure wholesale copying a game that came out dead (HOTS) is a smart idea.
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Dec 12, 2016 02:30
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Kinda shocked at the lack of Radiance and illusion nerfs but I'll wait to see how the pro meta establishes over the coming weeks. That being said, MK with a Radiance is apparently a thing and the only real counter is to raze your half of the map. Xtansic needs to make a new thread.
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Dec 12, 2016 02:30
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Centaur satyrs are ugly Groovelord Neato posted:i'm glad cuz the burning build was dumb as poo poo. Juggernaut won't be able to omnislash + spin now without the point in stats. 
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Dec 12, 2016 02:30
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Hahaha monkey king's Q gets the damage buff from his passive + ult this is the dumbest thing ever. close to 300 physical damage nuke at level 2. 700+ at level 7.
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Dec 12, 2016 02:30
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Kild posted:I think that opinion is mostly shared by the people who only watch TI or Majors or whatever. And I'm not sure wholesale copying a game that came out dead (HOTS) is a smart idea. Talents aren't why HOTS failed. That's just silly. :P And that opinion is usually spoken by the analysts, casters, and Redditors. I don't know if those are only TI watchers.
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Dec 12, 2016 02:32
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Just played a couple games and it's super fun. This game is super fun now. I'm gonna start working out a dota science build for Doom, in a game where talents now exist and talents are as hilarious as they are, a hero with an inherent Midas has to have a place. My last game I played with him I was level 17 at 17 minutes and I solokilled four enemies before eventually dying to the T2 tower I was diving.
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Dec 12, 2016 02:33
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One change that is undeniably good: now the loading phase is like 10 seconds max so no waiting 2 minutes on some dude whose toaster crashed on him.
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Dec 12, 2016 02:38
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drunken officeparty posted:It's indisputable fact that the longer the game goes the more exciting it gets sooo you must have forgotten all the major 90 minute snoozefests we had at multiple TI's then. Long games can be good. Long games are not good by nature. the major power spikes everyone gets at 25 now is definitely gonna change how late game plays out bigtime
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Dec 12, 2016 02:42
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Ragingsheep posted:People got bored of the long rear end passive farm for 40mins meta so IceFrog and Valve pushed the game towards quicker games and more things to do early game. but they didn't start ruining the game until after TI4 with its 80minute grand finals
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Dec 12, 2016 02:42
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Zurreco posted:Kinda shocked at the lack of Radiance and illusion nerfs but I'll wait to see how the pro meta establishes over the coming weeks. What? Illusions got brutally murdered quote:Illusions provide 5 + Level Gold and XP Taffer posted:you must have forgotten all the major 90 minute snoozefests we had at multiple TI's then. Long games can be good. Long games are not good by nature. TheRat fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 02:43
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TheRat posted:What? Illusions got brutally murdered radiance got -10 overall and an additional -10 when coming from an illusion. So radi illusions only do 40dps instead of the previous 50 (and the previous-previous 60)
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Dec 12, 2016 02:45
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Zoolooman posted:Talents aren't why HOTS failed. That's just silly. :P I'd say it was about half the reason with the other half being the shared global exp. Most redditors don't play and most casters + analysts don't play regularly either outside like the pros/ex-pros and Capitalist.
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Dec 12, 2016 02:47
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Zurreco posted:Kinda shocked at the lack of Radiance and illusion nerfs but I'll wait to see how the pro meta establishes over the coming weeks. I've shitposted at you about this before so now I'll make a polite shitpost. Your draconian approach to nerfs to what I assume is things you do not like seeing in pro games (I sincerely doubt you've encountered these problems much at whatever MMR you play at) is pure kneejerk. You have, in the past, called for wholesale turning off of items on certain abilities. No Battle Fury on Ember and no Radiance on illusions being the two big ones. I don't think you appreciate, or care, how much this would ruin the heroes and items you're mentioning. Ember Spirit has two broad power peaks, generally speaking: early game with level 4 Flame Guard and two or more levels in Searing Chains, where his spell damage is sufficient to rack up kills when enemies are still low level, and Battle Fury/crit Sleight of Fist later on in the game. The hero depends on that item to have any sort of impact in team fights because his right click is pure trash and Sleight is his only real source of damage past 30 minutes. If you take away Battle Fury working on Sleight, you need to redesign the hero. What Icefrog did, instead, is take away the one advantage Ember had that could not be countered: remnants giving vision. A remnant in the Rosh pit gave 30 seconds of perfect information that could not be countered in any way. If the remnant was there, it gave vision. The only other ability that gave that kind of uncounterable vision is Rocket Flare and that one is essentially the main purpose of the ability unlike remnants, which were map-long instant teleport beacons that also happened to give vision for incredibly long. Once that nerf hit, Ember Spirit became a niche pick in pro games. Now we have a 33% damage nerf on Radiance illusions and illusions themselves giving away bounties. That's pretty huge. It's not a complete shutdown of the concept of Radiance illusions but it's a big hit, and a better approach that essentially making Radiance a Wraith King item and another target for redesign.
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Dec 12, 2016 02:49
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Zoolooman posted:I don't have an answer. Maybe the game needs to end faster? We'd have to ask Icefrog, seriously. I understand that DotA was too difficult for regulars and it's a game where you're supposed to be loving clueless and learning all the little things, year after year, and always finding more is the niche I found this game wonderful and sunk countless hours into. So yes, I'm being trite, but there's literally LoL and HotS for anyone who wants hero arena. Icefrog has clearly given the reason for the changes: He thought ratting was fundamentally frustrating and despite it taking lots of skill to pull off as a team, he didn't want that frustration to be a part of his game. He also hated how failing to push high ground 3x in a row didn't change the outcome of games because they already had such huge leads. And don't pretend comeback gold compares to how the game used to be. At 10 minutes every loving game I'm a 700g purse and I've ganked the other team enough that they're on their heels 5 manning behind t2s.... but my pub experience EVERY drat game is "oh look that guy made space here let me afk solo farm" and then we spend the next 20 minutes losing, despite there being a 10k net worth lead on our side, until we eventually lose. That poo poo is more frustrating than getting ratted by pros ever was, but it's what we've got now. You can't play with a lead unless your team is ultra coordinated. It's a really silly mechanic, and given this new patch, everything is going to revolve even more around whose 5v5 is better on paper since farming is hardly an issue like it used to be.
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Dec 12, 2016 02:54
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Cuntellectual posted:Centaur satyrs are ugly my game defaulted to like some 50% render quality poo poo
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Dec 12, 2016 02:56
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JollyPubJerk posted:https://gfycat.com/SentimentalEqualAllosaurus Holy poo poo look at Peru 
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Dec 12, 2016 03:01
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Zoolooman posted:I like the changes FWIW, I was just answering his sentiment because it was an honest one. I think you have something, but I doubt money is the sole factor behind the design changes. I don't think it's money as much as Icefrog just wants his game to appeal to the masses and be around forever. I can wholly understand why casuals would like this change. But pandering to casuals isn't how DotA became a 15+ year game and that definitely is a new direction. Taffer posted:Because without changes the game and the playstyle stagnates and people lose interest. We all know you're mad that BS can't jungle anymore but it's time to move on My BS jungle got buffed, for the record. Angrymantium posted:I don't understand the hype around new mask of madness, isn't it basically the same as old mask but now it silences you? I have been bitching ever since comeback gold.. There is no new realization here. Thing is, they used to patch on like a bi-monthly basis where most changes were stat tweaks and +1cd, etc. etc. enough to get metagames to shift pretty hard, but leaving the diverse array of strategies in place. We're moving towards x item/skill hard counters y item/skill and z player casts first, followed by a player or else you lose teamfight, and positioning is a lost cause with every hero having max ms all the time. This is the poo poo that starcraft moved to in the sequel to BW and last I checked pro SC is loving dead - and I used to watch Korean BW all the time. I'm not yet to the point of quitting, the games still silly complex, etc. but drat it's not a direction I like. The mechanical requirements keep going up and up and that's not why I played Dota way back when - it was the game where you were rewarded for being smart and strategic and having timing more than anything else.
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Dec 12, 2016 03:02
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I feel like the update has frame rate issues. Not many but enough to be noticeable.
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Dec 12, 2016 03:06
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I don't read patch notes too deeply and just play my way through it to figure it out so take this with a grain of salt (also I am bad at dota). The one thing I will say that some of the late game passives look to make some heroes much better late game (Puck). Then again how often do you ever hit 25 . Crstyal Maiden's buff to her ult also looks ridiculous.
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Dec 12, 2016 03:08
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JollyPubJerk posted:I don't think it's money as much as Icefrog just wants his game to appeal to the masses and be around forever. I can wholly understand why casuals would like this change. But pandering to casuals isn't how DotA became a 15+ year game and that definitely is a new direction. 6.84 was the point of quitting for me, and then I got back into it the game after most of the problems with that were resolved. But it's certainly not the same as when a player with good micro or just being plain smarter than their opponents could win games by themseves. For the record I agree with most of your complaints, it's just like, this is clearly the way the game has bee heading for a while now, I don't really know what you expect from a patch whe every previous patch has contributed to dumbing the game down
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Dec 12, 2016 03:08
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Milky Moor posted:I feel like the update has frame rate issues. Not many but enough to be noticeable. they probably have a debugger that'll be turned off in the live release (at least I hope). they've done this in the past.
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Dec 12, 2016 03:09
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