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Byzantine posted:Durability was good in Fallout 3 since all your poo poo is 200-year-old garbage. See, I think that works theoretically, but it ultimately just didn't pan out. I never got the feeling that I was using ancient, barely-functional relics held together with tape and string, partly because you were only able to repair things with identical weapons, I felt like there should've been ore scavenging and jury-rigging (beyond the Jury-Rig perk). New Vegas introduced the weapon repair kits that you could make with a bunch of what was otherwise clutter, but repairing felt like it barely mattered there anyway. Fallout 4's durability for power armor pieces was pretty alright, because durability both mattered and was entirely repaired with junk so you did get the feeling of 'I'm keeping this thing together with literal tape and string'.
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Dec 12, 2016 09:16
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Deceitful Penguin posted:I guess Far Cry 2 used it ok, where the weapons you actually purchased would generally last you a long rear end time before starting to degrade but the garbage you got from the ground/enemies would frequently jam/misfire I often wondered if the weapons in the game were stored on the surface of Venus before being sent to the African nation in question. I'm no gun expert, but I sincerely doubt that guns rust and malfunction to the point of exploding after firing ~150 rounds.
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Dec 12, 2016 09:26
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Durability was a major progression mechanic in FO3. You don't find an assault rifle and now you have an assault rifle, lesser weapons are obsolete. You need to find lots of assault rifles to bring it up to full effectiveness, lengthening the progression. And you're still happy to find another one after that.
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Dec 12, 2016 09:33
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Gitro posted:Much like inventory limits, item durability is almost always annoying busy work that does nothing but present a mild inconvenience/timesink. Inventory limits can be used to good effect. Like, Rise of the Triad letting you only carry one special weapon at a time tells you not to bother trying to hoard and just go nuts, because if you don't use that drunk missile then you're just going to lose it next time you come across a different weapon. But it's pretty annoying in games like the Deus Ex series where it just tends to mean that you can't justify taking some of the more fun weapons because you need that space for other, more useful stuff.
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Dec 12, 2016 11:58
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dordreff posted:The specific thing that annoyed me enough that I stopped playing was the end of the second act, when you've spent several hours gathering evidence and doing tasks related to a hearing on making one kind of magic illegal; at the end of this hearing, no matter what you actually say or do or the evidence you've gathered or anything, the magic is made illegal and you lose all your allies in the city, rendering basically everything you've done in the main questline since entering the big city completely meaningless.The end of Act 1 is similar, but less lovely, in that no matter what you say or do you have to kill the crazy wizard and steal his castle. I assume all the rest of the main questlines had similar fake choices. What you do at the trial and the faction you side with affects the ending for the city and whether the magic is made illegal, though I don't remember if there's anything that changes in-game
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Dec 12, 2016 12:28
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Guy Mann posted:Has there ever been a game that was actually improved by having durability meters on equipment? So many games do it and it's always a garbage decision, it must have been a good idea at some point...right? S.T.A.L.K.E.R. it does survival in a nuclear wasteland for me far better than fallout. everything feels like I'll live or die based on the condition of my gear. Guy Mann posted:I'm glad to see that without a publisher to shift blame on people are finally holding Obsidian accountable for their poo poo. do their games run stable now that they're free from gamebryo or whatever engine they were using to do alpha protocol? I never had an issue with mechanics, just stability.
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Dec 12, 2016 13:49
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Sic Semper Goon posted:I often wondered if the weapons in the game were stored on the surface of Venus before being sent to the African nation in question. maybe that region is set in the same area as the African theater in Phantom Pain, but several years later. there's a weak strain of metallic archea in the background that eventually rusts all of your gear.
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Dec 12, 2016 14:03
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The only good thing about durability in RPGs is how in Morrowind you could pump your strength to ridiculous levels with potions (hi im asterix) and your weapons would shatter instantly when you swing them because of the sheer force of the swing.
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Dec 12, 2016 15:14
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It'd be remiss to not mention the worst offender, the PC port of Dark Souls II, where it was tied to framerate, meaning that weapons could deteriorate much, much faster than on console.
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Dec 12, 2016 15:34
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well why not posted:It'd be remiss to not mention the worst offender, the PC port of Dark Souls II, where it was tied to framerate, meaning that weapons could deteriorate much, much faster than on console.
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Dec 12, 2016 15:39
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Rise of the Tomb Raider: They seem to have put a ton of work into Lara's face animations in cutscenes and barely any for all the other characters. It's made all the worse because the voice acting has generally been really good, so you get believable, emotional dialogue coming out of awkward, stiff-faced weirdos.
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Dec 12, 2016 15:52
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FactsAreUseless posted:It was PC and PS4, and specifically was a problem in the first release of Scholar of the First Sin. Both versions run at 60 FPS. Also, they patched that out. They patched that out, but durability in DS2 is still extremely weird and inconsistent.
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Dec 12, 2016 15:56
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I thought it was pretty funny in Fire Emblem games when you'd be given some legendary dragon slaying sword forged by the gods that would break after you swung it 45 times. I guess in the later games (and I think 4?) the legendary items did get unlimited uses which helped them stand out from normal weapons even better. It was still a net negative for the game though.well why not posted:It'd be remiss to not mention the worst offender, the PC port of Dark Souls II, where it was tied to framerate, meaning that weapons could deteriorate much, much faster than on console. The super weird thing about DS2 durability for me was how it would degrade like 50x faster when hitting a corpse rather than a live enemy. You could swing 3 times at enemy and kill it without seeing your durability bar move, but if you queued up a 4th swing that connected with its corpse suddenly a third of your durability would be gone. I'm pretty sure this has been long since fixed, but at the time you had people coming out of the woodwork to defend it by talking about how supple live bodies would take a blade much more smoothly than a ragdolling corpse, or how it was intentional punishment for button mashing. The Moon Monster has a new favorite as of 16:16 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 16:11
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Byzantine posted:Durability was good in Fallout 3 since all your poo poo is 200-year-old garbage. I'm glad they got rid of it in 4 except for power armor parts (though it's pretty easy to fix), because it's cool going in to some big intense fight then coming out of it missing an arm and a leg.
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Dec 12, 2016 16:14
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Swinging through a teammate in dark souls 2 would also slam your durability, which was not a fun thing to deal with when I did a coordinated coop run through the whole game
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Dec 12, 2016 16:25
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RBA Starblade posted:I'm glad they got rid of it in 4 except for power armor parts (though it's pretty easy to fix), because it's cool going in to some big intense fight then coming out of it missing an arm and a leg. More games need to do the deus ex 1 thing where you can literally come out of a battle missing an arm and a leg
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Dec 12, 2016 16:40
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RyokoTK posted:They patched that out, but durability in DS2 is still extremely weird and inconsistent.
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Dec 12, 2016 16:56
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The Moon Monster posted:
Digirat posted:Swinging through a teammate in dark souls 2 would also slam your durability, which was not a fun thing to deal with when I did a coordinated coop run through the whole game I'm willing to bet that this is because the code that checks to see if your weapon should receive damage is being triggered multiple times as it moves through a corpse/ally.
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Dec 12, 2016 17:18
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I'm playing Skyrim for the first time and it just seems weird that early missions (going after that horn thing for the Greybeards) send you through places where overleveled things gently caress you up. Why am I fighting Frost Trolls and getting destroyed so quick and then I gotta start from the beginning of the quest.
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Dec 12, 2016 17:24
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Kay Kessler posted:Swearing off everything by Nomura is a big mistake. You need to play The World Ends with You. This is the truth. TWEWY isn't just one of the best DS games I've ever played, in my opinion, it's one of the best games I've ever played period.
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Dec 12, 2016 17:30
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FactsAreUseless posted:So is everything else. It's kind of a mess. It is a messy game but it's still my favorite Dark Souls game aside from Bloodborne.
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Dec 12, 2016 17:32
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well why not posted:It'd be remiss to not mention the worst offender, the PC port of Dark Souls II, where it was tied to framerate, meaning that weapons could deteriorate much, much faster than on console. My favorite tied to FPS game mechanic was in GTA SA you had to ride a motorcycle onto a plane that was taking off. If you had too high of FPS the plane would travel faster and you could never reach it in time.
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Dec 12, 2016 17:52
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Fried Watermelon posted:My favorite tied to FPS game mechanic was in GTA SA you had to ride a motorcycle onto a plane that was taking off. If you had too high of FPS the plane would travel faster and you could never reach it in time. I remember not being able to dive in the PC version unless I kept the frame limiter on. 27 fps or bust!
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Dec 12, 2016 17:59
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Fried Watermelon posted:My favorite tied to FPS game mechanic was in GTA SA you had to ride a motorcycle onto a plane that was taking off. If you had too high of FPS the plane would travel faster and you could never reach it in time. In final fantasy 11 the pc version had/has things tied to cpu clock and fps. Overclocking some processors made your character run faster and got your account flagged and banned.
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Dec 12, 2016 18:27
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OldTennisCourt posted:I'm playing Skyrim for the first time and it just seems weird that early missions (going after that horn thing for the Greybeards) send you through places where overleveled things gently caress you up. Why am I fighting Frost Trolls and getting destroyed so quick and then I gotta start from the beginning of the quest. I know exactly which troll you're talking about and I hate it so much. You basically have to run or hope that one of the npc pilgrims is around to help you kill it if you go to High Hrothgar as soon as possible.
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Dec 12, 2016 18:30
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That one sucks. but the worse one is on your way to the horn you'll more than likely go through this ruin which has multiple frost trolls running around and you need to bolt to make sure you don't get slaughtered.
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Dec 12, 2016 18:35
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OldTennisCourt posted:That one sucks. but the worse one is on your way to the horn you'll more than likely go through this ruin which has multiple frost trolls running around and you need to bolt to make sure you don't get slaughtered. I know exactly the part you mean, there's definitely a difficulty increase to that section. That's pretty much the point for me where I tell the main story to gently caress off for awhile and start exploring and doing side quests.
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Dec 12, 2016 19:10
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The Lone Badger posted:Durability was a major progression mechanic in FO3. You don't find an assault rifle and now you have an assault rifle, lesser weapons are obsolete. You need to find lots of assault rifles to bring it up to full effectiveness, lengthening the progression. And you're still happy to find another one after that. I thought durability was kind of fun in Fallout 3 to be honest for literally this exact reason....but I think they abstracted it a bit too far. Since you can only repair items with identical items, it felt less like you were duct-taping rusty poo poo together to survive and more like you were finding Assault Rifle Tokens to make your gun better for longer. If they were a bit looser on what could repair what, and maybe added some extra items (duct tape, screws, barrels, w/e) that acted as a modifier when you repaired something with them, I think the whole system would have been a ton better.
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Dec 12, 2016 19:49
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Since we're back to Fallout chat, FO3 and NV are great. I love both of them, especially New Vegas! Except for the city of New Vegas. So many load screens, half the city isn't really worth bothering with (hell, on most of my characters I go once, kill Benny, deal with House, then go to the Gun Runners or that one NCR base for the rest of forever), going into the casinos wipes your hotkeys, and as nice as it is that they considered stuff like farmland, the farmland is incredibly boring. The best part about New Vegas is staying as far away from it as possible and being a laser cowboy. The Legion can have that lovely city. The Boomer airstrip also sucks, but at least the Boomers are interesting and you can help them achieve their dream of bombing everybody else.
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Dec 12, 2016 19:55
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John Murdoch posted:Rise of the Tomb Raider: They seem to have put a ton of work into Lara's face animations in cutscenes and barely any for all the other characters. It's made all the worse because the voice acting has generally been really good, so you get believable, emotional dialogue coming out of awkward, stiff-faced weirdos. I'm playing this right now, and I'm going to have to disagree with the believable dialogue. Every conversation either has "your people" or "my people" in it at least a dozen times. Fun game, though.
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Dec 12, 2016 20:16
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Professor Wayne posted:I'm playing this right now, and I'm going to have to disagree with the believable dialogue. Every conversation either has "your people" or "my people" in it at least a dozen times. It does break down once you're being force-fed stilted side mission briefings from random Remnant dudes. I was mainly thinking about Jonah during the prologue and to a lesser extent the antagonists.
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Dec 12, 2016 20:42
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food court bailiff posted:I thought durability was kind of fun in Fallout 3 to be honest for literally this exact reason....but I think they abstracted it a bit too far. Since you can only repair items with identical items, it felt less like you were duct-taping rusty poo poo together to survive and more like you were finding Assault Rifle Tokens to make your gun better for longer. If they were a bit looser on what could repair what, and maybe added some extra items (duct tape, screws, barrels, w/e) that acted as a modifier when you repaired something with them, I think the whole system would have been a ton better. I think they were trying to do this with ammo customization. you could take your stuff to a workbench and craft different types of bullets. sounded cool but I never went too far into it besides converting one type of bullet to another so my gun could fire it.
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Dec 12, 2016 20:50
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different bullets in fonv could increase damage by like 50% in a few cases. its main utility was saving caps and just loading your own bullets so you could finish the game with like 60000 caps
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Dec 12, 2016 21:58
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Durability works for Dead Rising since the entire premise is you're in a place loaded with stuff. But like a lot of other games with durability, they really need to make items more, well, durable. "Congratulations, you've unlocked a motorcycle with chainsaw attachments! ... Aaaaand it broke."
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Dec 12, 2016 22:15
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The main problem that I have with durability is thus: the basic premise behind durability is giving limited usage to a particular item. It's a finite resource that you consume to attack, which I don't have a problem with, conceptually: for example, a shotgun in Doom has a finite consumable resource, and that's shotgun shells. However, giving said shotgun weapon durability on top of that is completely redundant since the ammo is enough of a resource to manage. A sword with an enchantment can have some sort of Elder Scrolls-style energy limitation on it that it consumes each hit. Mundane items such as iron swords having a limited durability is completely pointless since you either are putting a finite use on melee combat in any capacity, or you have repairs/backup swords available enough to render the sword's durability nothing but meaningless busywork, so unless you're making a game where combat is discouraged entirely it should not be employed. Something like Fire Emblem is an example of durability done both wrong and right: having ordinary weapons have limited usage is stupid and gainless since you can effortlessly buy a zillion silver swords between every mission... however, the super-powerful sword you got from killing a boss should have some sort of limiting factor on it, or else you could trivialize every fight afterward. In the above example, the motorcycle-chainsaw tool already has a built-in option for finite usage, and that's gasoline... obviously!! Giving it a durability on top of it is just pointlessly limiting a neat tool. It's a similar problem I had with magic in Dark Souls 3. Casting a spell consumes MP and a large amount of stamina. Which seems completely redundant to me -- why isn't the MP consumption enough? It doesn't regenerate passively, so you still need to be choosy with your spell usage; meanwhile, stamina regenerates quickly so it just adds a level of inconvenience to spellcasting, which is already inconvenient enough in DS3 relative to earlier entries in the franchise.
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Dec 12, 2016 22:28
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RyokoTK posted:A sword with an enchantment can have some sort of Elder Scrolls-style energy limitation on it that it consumes each hit. TBF this also totally sucks.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:09
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Slime posted:I'm willing to bet that this is because the code that checks to see if your weapon should receive damage is being triggered multiple times as it moves through a corpse/ally. It is. I once broke a 100% whip in 2 hits because each section of the whip counts as a hit, the killing blow was enough to shatter it.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:29
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Far Cry 2 was actually a very well done game in terms of atmosphere and fighting. I really liked how it was set up. I have two complaints: The first is that it's repetitive as gently caress. Go here, shoot mans, go there, shoot mans, go there ambush convoy, shoot mans, go here, find new friend, new friend is useless as gently caress, gets shot, dies despite your best try. The second is the loving stealth mechanic in that game is dogshit. You sneak around in the grass, trying to avoid getting spotted so that you can machete a boy to death but in the corner of your ear, you hear some loving totally unintelligible South African say something that can be interpreted as alarm sound, and now you're hosed. Cue explosions, shoot mans, death.
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Dec 13, 2016 01:14
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A White Guy posted:The second is the loving stealth mechanic in that game is dogshit. You sneak around in the grass, trying to avoid getting spotted so that you can machete a boy to death but in the corner of your ear, you hear some loving totally unintelligible South African say something that can be interpreted as alarm sound, and now you're hosed. Cue explosions, shoot mans, death. I saw a video where someone snuck into an outpost, set up an ied next to an ammo crate and snuck back out and sat in the grass some distance away from the outpost and blew it. The AI ignored the explosion and the resulting cook off from the ammo crates and beelined straight for the player.
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Dec 13, 2016 01:25
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I think durability applied to a game weapon is stupid -- as noted, from a gameplay perspective there is already a limitation on the weapon (ammo) that encourages you to be careful with its use. I think it's not quite as terrible if the stat is applied sparingly, though, in a way to simulate maintenance rather than the overall state of the object's integrity. e.g. your weapon will never just fall apart in your hands, but with 100% maintenance you do more damage and the gun doesn't jam as much, while at 0% you can still defend yourself but it's annoying to use. I think S.T.A.L.K.E.R works this way, iirc. Durability applied to armor makes a lot of sense though. Eventually all those bullets are going to rip your jacket to shreds, and you need to fix it if you want it to provide any protection.
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Dec 13, 2016 01:37
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