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JaucheCharly posted:The issue is EXTREMELY complex, but the consensus is that there are a whole host of factors that lead to this constellation of "poo poo". ^^^ The simplest answer is usually right.
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Dec 12, 2016 10:12
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| # ? May 13, 2024 22:13 |
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Dec 12, 2016 11:40
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Outrail posted:I think he means the scientific method, being logical about poo poo rather than just accepting the world for what it is. That's a big part of it yes. Science is not something that just exists on its own, it's a specific way to explore and understand the world based on logical reasoning, analysis of data, experimentation, etc. What we call science was not a thing prior to... 1500ish? It's not an easy thing to nail down. It was invented by European philosophers and gave Europe a huge advantage in technological development. Pre-scientific ideas go back a long way but they were never put into the useful system we have now until much later. Aristotle is a good example. He's the basis of natural philosophy in European thought prior to science. Aristotle is full of things that are obviously wrong and would be easily proven wrong if you did experiments, but Aristotle never thought to do so and nobody else did either. His assertion that heavier things fall faster, for example. Obvious bullshit, but without a scientific mindset it wasn't addressed. Science is an invention like anything else. This is like the least controversial thing anyone has posted in this thread, it's pretty bizarre to call out. There are whole multi book series on the history of science you can read if you're unfamiliar. The new Cosmos series was obviously astronomy focused but had a lot of good history of science content in it.
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Dec 12, 2016 11:44
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Whenever he has to cough or sneeze, he turns his head to the right and does it with gusto.
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Dec 12, 2016 13:19
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Grand Fromage posted:That's a big part of it yes. Science is not something that just exists on its own, it's a specific way to explore and understand the world based on logical reasoning, analysis of data, experimentation, etc. What we call science was not a thing prior to... 1500ish? It's not an easy thing to nail down. It was invented by European philosophers and gave Europe a huge advantage in technological development. Pre-scientific ideas go back a long way but they were never put into the useful system we have now until much later. I think Modest Mao's point was that 'science' isn't a real thing you can hold and touch, and therefore doesn't exist. Like democracy isn't an actual thing that exists in reality, it's just a thing that we talk about. How can you like, invent an idea man?
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Dec 12, 2016 14:32
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https://i.imgur.com/Ula47MH.mp4
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Dec 12, 2016 14:32
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At first I thought this was an ebiker and thought "Yeah, that's standard for those assholes," but then it was not a ebiker and I was a little disappointed that it was a Final Destination scenario instead. EDIT: Outrail posted:I think Modest Mao's point was that 'science' isn't a real thing you can hold and touch, and therefore doesn't exist. Like democracy isn't an actual thing that exists in reality, it's just a thing that we talk about. How can you like, invent an idea man?
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Dec 12, 2016 14:46
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Haier posted:
Stares gormlessly at you, slack-jawed for a legitimate minute. Hands behind my back which is slightly bent. "HAAAALLLOUU."
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Dec 12, 2016 15:12
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Grand Fromage posted:That's a big part of it yes. Science is not something that just exists on its own, it's a specific way to explore and understand the world based on logical reasoning, analysis of data, experimentation, etc. What we call science was not a thing prior to... 1500ish? It's not an easy thing to nail down. It was invented by European philosophers and gave Europe a huge advantage in technological development. Pre-scientific ideas go back a long way but they were never put into the useful system we have now until much later. The big part of scientific method is formalized peer-review which was a big step in sorting out bullshit and didn't come in effect before late XIX century at least. As for "greeks invented logic" what IMO most people mean that they invented formalized rules of logic, rules of debate, neat tools of logical analysis (such as occam's razor). This whole thing was a big deal for the same reasons (filtering out bullshit) and generally checking concepts and ideas against inner contradictions. Logic is often undervalued because it is now such a fundamental part of our culture and education that often people think it is somehow inherent and intuitive.
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Dec 12, 2016 15:22
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Grand Fromage posted:That's a big part of it yes. Science is not something that just exists on its own, it's a specific way to explore and understand the world based on logical reasoning, analysis of data, experimentation, etc. What we call science was not a thing prior to... 1500ish? It's not an easy thing to nail down. It was invented by European philosophers and gave Europe a huge advantage in technological development. Pre-scientific ideas go back a long way but they were never put into the useful system we have now until much later. ughhhh edit: you gotta like define what europe means and in what time frame they dominated the world like if you mean the east india company was using the scientific method to pillage asia of its natural resources why that's different than the muslims using their engineering and philosophical / cultural advancements to take over the same areas centuries earlier Modest Mao fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 17:10
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In 2004, the Chinese government claimed success in extinguishing a mine fire at a colliery near Urumqi in China's Xinjiang province that had been burning since 1874. However, a March 2008 Time magazine article quotes researcher Steven Q. Andrews as saying, "I decided to go to see how it was extinguished, and flames were visible and the entire thing was still burning.... They said it was put out, and who is to say otherwise?"[9]
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Dec 12, 2016 17:15
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Also if china's reported populations numbers are to be believed they alone have as many people as north america, europe, and australia combined so like ideas of what it means to conquer the world are kinda skewed because of your familiarity with western history... granted that europe had basically the whole planet at one point but now a lot of europe is backwards as hell so if temporary conquest counts why were the mongols way more successful than any single european culture was it because the scientific method isn't top dog or what
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Dec 12, 2016 17:20
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Modest Mao posted:Also if china's reported populations numbers are to be believed they alone have as many people as north america, europe, and australia combined so like ideas of what it means to conquer the world are kinda skewed because of your familiarity with western history... granted that europe had basically the whole planet at one point but now a lot of europe is backwards as hell so if temporary conquest counts why were the mongols way more successful than any single european culture was it because the scientific method isn't top dog or what Winning the genocide game.
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Dec 12, 2016 17:27
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Modest Mao posted:Also if china's reported populations numbers are to be believed they alone have as many people as north america, europe, and australia combined so like ideas of what it means to conquer the world are kinda skewed because of your familiarity with western history... granted that europe had basically the whole planet at one point but now a lot of europe is backwards as hell so if temporary conquest counts why were the mongols way more successful than any single european culture was it because the scientific method isn't top dog or what because everywhere the mongols conquered, they'd absorb every local useful person into their army and give them a good life. as soon as they conquered china, they had the best technology of the time and walls / city sieging was no longer a problem for them also they were loving tough as poo poo and would make little cuts in their horses to drink their blood and ride on dan carlin has an awesome hardcore history on this, I think it's free now. it gave me a boner.
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Dec 12, 2016 17:33
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Dan Carlin is unlistenable.
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Dec 12, 2016 17:34
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Every time this poo poo comes up I get a bit excited that people want to talk about logos or Mozi before realizing that most of them are talking about their rough understanding of far later poo poo speaking of podcasts do you have any educating ones you'd suggest on these topics I really get down with a lot of eastern philosophy of mind, I mean a lot of it is rooted in Buddhism which has a bit of crazy poo poo thrown in, but the fundamentals are solid. it's too bad none of it is taught in regular college philosophy courses. I really liked reading Dogen for example
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Dec 12, 2016 17:35
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hot take from modest mao, the scientific revolution never happened and our epistemological attitudes are actually exactly the same as in the middle ages
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Dec 12, 2016 17:36
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modest mao is here to liven things up I wish pro prc laowai was still around, he was annoying as poo poo but he really knew how to set a thread on fire
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Dec 12, 2016 17:38
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Modest Mao posted:ughhhh Er, isn't it that the Muslim world also had/has/has had the scientific method, but that that method is after all only one part of a complex set of factors that "determine" history?
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Dec 12, 2016 17:42
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Pirate Radar posted:Er, isn't it that the Muslim world also had/has/has had the scientific method, but that that method is after all only one part of a complex set of factors that "determine" history? idk ask Grand Formage the history man
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Dec 12, 2016 17:43
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Phlegmish posted:hot take from modest mao, the scientific revolution never happened and our epistemological attitudes are actually exactly the same as in the middle ages science is good I'm very pro science idk about suggesting Science being the cause of the white man's blood lust tho, or science being a wholly white invention rather than whitey's version becoming the dominant one
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Dec 12, 2016 17:44
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'modern science' would probably be a good qualifier rather than just science it didn't cause anyone's bloodlust but does explain the insane pace of technological and philosophical advances that allowed europe to become crushingly dominant by the 19th century
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Dec 12, 2016 17:51
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Pirate Radar posted:But the highly patrimonial bureaucracy that Maoism built didn't focus on the betterment of the whole, it was constitutionally incapable of doing so! You're asserting that Maoism gave China a solid moral and ethical system in practice and not just in theory, which I find kind of questionable. Invisible Handjob posted:speaking of podcasts do you have any educating ones you'd suggest on these topics
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Dec 12, 2016 19:01
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Deceitful Penguin posted:To quote western philosphy a bit, it doesn't matter if it was real or not if the people believed it and acted according to it. Also gettin' late for work so gotta hurry. poo poo, would have been cool. If you have any books that aren't primary sources that'd be cool too. I can read Chinese but not the crazy old stuff like would be in philosophy books
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Dec 12, 2016 19:18
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If you wanted to make an effort post one day I'd read the poo poo out of that too
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Dec 12, 2016 19:20
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Haier posted:"If you're doing a good job and the guy next to you is doing the same job but really poorly, and you both still get paid the same, then what's the point of doing anything well at all or taking pride in your work? You're just over-working yourself compared to the other guy, so just relax and cut as many, or more, corners than he is and everything will be fine."
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Dec 12, 2016 19:21
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This looks cool, but what are they doing?
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Dec 12, 2016 20:37
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Modest Mao posted:edit: you gotta like define what europe means and in what time frame they dominated the world like if you mean the east india company was using the scientific method to pillage asia of its natural resources why that's different than the muslims using their engineering and philosophical / cultural advancements to take over the same areas centuries earlier lol You're a lot better than FBR or PWNER, but still, lol.
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Dec 12, 2016 20:51
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value-brand cereal posted:This looks cool, but what are they doing? Getting baked with pot.
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Dec 12, 2016 20:59
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value-brand cereal posted:This looks cool, but what are they doing? Guessing it's small batch artisinal metalwork/smelting/goldsmithing. And it's actually shot in San Fransisco.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:20
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B33rChiller posted:Guessing it's small batch artisinal metalwork/smelting/goldsmithing. And it's actually shot in San Fransisco. poo poo, do you have a source? I reverse-GISed it and nothing came up, and figured it was firing clay pots in Vietnam or something. Cottage industry work.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:33
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Accretionist posted:poo poo, do you have a source? Total and complete blind speculation to be honest.
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Dec 13, 2016 00:17
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Modest Mao posted:Also if china's reported populations numbers are to be believed they alone have as many people as north america, europe, and australia combined so like ideas of what it means to conquer the world are kinda skewed because of your familiarity with western history... granted that europe had basically the whole planet at one point but now a lot of europe is backwards as hell so if temporary conquest counts why were the mongols way more successful than any single european culture was it because the scientific method isn't top dog or what That's a lazy as poo poo argument. People of European descent dominate politically, genetically and culturally four, arguably five of the seven continents (exceptions are Asia and Africa). Of these continents Australia, Europe, North America and Antarctica are inarguable, with South America being a borderline case. On the other hand China and India have a supermajority domination of the planet earth only in the sense that they have a poo poo ton of people contracted into a comparatively small area. The cynical mind might ask if they truly are the rulers of the earth why can't they establish a foothold beyond the near confines of their borders? Disclaimer: I'm not a white supremacist, and the actions of Europeans in the past are shameful, but really, 'China rules the world because it's got lots of people'? Come on Modest Mao, that's just a weak argument and far from your username. Edit:Okay I'm mixing definitions, instead of' India and china', just pretend I said 'all of Asia'. Outrail fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Dec 13, 2016 |
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Dec 13, 2016 01:35
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What...what have you done to my thread!?!
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Dec 13, 2016 01:38
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It's arguable that South America isn't dominated by people of European descent? Even though it's called "Latin America?" And hell, Asia is something of a toss-up to depending on how you interpret Russia.
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Dec 13, 2016 01:42
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Glenn Quebec posted:What...what have you done to my thread!?! Threadshit. I just wanted to join in on the fun.
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Dec 13, 2016 01:42
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Fojar38 posted:It's arguable that South America isn't dominated by people of European descent? Even though it's called "Latin America?" Yes, that's why I said it arguably dominated. A vast majority have spanish/Portuguese blood, the vast majority speak a European language as a native language and the vast majority at least nominally subscribe to a European religion. Arguably you could say that's a cultural victory if you want to use sid Myer (?) Civilization XYZ rules. And I said arguably, as in you could make the argument but it isn't an overwhelmingly accurate or inarguable statement.
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Dec 13, 2016 01:47
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this isn't actually a history thread you dorks
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Dec 13, 2016 01:58
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its kinda like how republicans see the map of american voting being all red and being like wtf how could hillary have the popular vote just because bumfuck nowhere AKA most of the new world and australia is technically speaking a european language as its lingua franca doesn't mean poo poo If you add up all the chinese nationals and chinese ethnics in the world all those 'white people' continents you listed barely squeek out to having more people aka more of the human experience / human history edit I know white people are bad at math but, (People in millions) North America - 579 Europe - 739 Australia - 24 Antarctica - 0 Grand total: 1,342,000,000 people China: 1,382,000,000 If you throw in the white people who live in South America you'd probably just barely balance it out Modest Mao fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Dec 13, 2016 |
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Dec 13, 2016 02:01
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| # ? May 13, 2024 22:13 |
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Turns out that controlling territory is more important than having shitloads of people when it comes to global influence
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Dec 13, 2016 02:02
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