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JeffersonClay posted:Maybe you're a loving moron. hate to break it to you but blaming Hillary's loss on mostly poor undereducated minority voters is actually openly, cravenly racist
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Dec 12, 2016 22:54
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JeffersonClay posted:It's not just lack of turnout, it's male POC switching to Trump. I'd offer the same explanation for that. But we aren't really taking about a lot of people there, are we?
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Dec 12, 2016 22:55
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zegermans posted:I'm sure this nuance would be easily messaged. Maybe he should say "He was for the bailouts before he was against it" The issue was that Hillary said he was opposed to bailing out the auto industry which is patently false.
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Dec 12, 2016 22:56
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icantfindaname posted:hate to break it to you but blaming Hillary's loss on mostly poor undereducated minority voters is actually openly, cravenly racist This didn't happen. stop making poo poo up
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Dec 12, 2016 22:57
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:Obama energized huge demographics that lean D but generally don't turn up to vote like no other candidate in recent history; he was the first Presidential candidate (if not President) for progressives since Carter and the first Presidential candidate for black voters ever. Yet Clinton may eclipse his vote total for 2012.
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Dec 12, 2016 22:57
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Nevvy Z posted:This didn't happen. stop making poo poo up Ah, OK, he only strongly implied though rhetorical framing that poor, undereducated minority men cost Hillary the election. Definitely not a racist
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Dec 12, 2016 23:00
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Clinton should run for governor of California if she isn't done with politics yet. People do love her there apparently. I bet it's back to the paid speech circuit for her though.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:00
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zegermans posted:Yet Clinton may eclipse his vote total for 2012. yeah well it turned out 98% of what he campaigned on in 2008 was bullshit but whatcha gonna do. He might've even lost had the Republicans not decided to run their Hillary Clinton against him that year.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:00
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icantfindaname posted:Ah, OK, he only strongly implied though rhetorical framing that poor, undereducated minority men cost Hillary the election. Definitely not a racist No, he didn't. Stop making poo poo up.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:02
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JeffersonClay posted:If you dig into the statistics, Hillary's declining share of these two groups is entirely due to men of color. Exit poll crosstabs aren't totally reliable.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:02
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Nevvy Z posted:No, he didn't. Stop making poo poo up. Actually he did. And he basically framed it as those poor black and hispanic men are misogynistic without any proof.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:03
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Clinton performed better with women than men, period, so I'm not sure why you're insisting on reading it as 'minority men are misogynists' and not 'women, in general, liked hillary more (but still not enough).'
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Dec 12, 2016 23:03
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Mister Fister posted:Actually he did. Quote the post, liar. Z. Autobahn posted:Clinton performed better with women than men, period, so I'm not sure why you're insisting on reading it as 'minority men are misogynists' and not 'women, in general, liked hillary more (but still not enough).' Because he brought it up on reply to a post about how Trump gained a small amount of minority voters over Romney. The context was already about minority voters, not voters in general. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 23:04
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Nevvy Z posted:Quote the post, liar. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3797387&pagenumber=73&perpage=40#post467326470 Seems pretty straightforward to me, if anything icantfindaname was too soft on him.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:05
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Mister Fister posted:http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3797387&pagenumber=73&perpage=40#post467326470 You didn't even quote it. Probably because you know you are lying. He is clearly saying that of the minority voters Trump gained on Romney, most were men.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:07
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I can believe this, but then the original Mister Fister claim that Clinton was terrible because she lost POC voter share is equally suspect.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:07
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Nevvy Z posted:You didn't even quote it. Probably because you know you are lying. Here, let me quote it and bold it then: JeffersonClay posted:If you dig into the statistics, Hillary's declining share of these two groups is entirely due to men of color. Again, seems pretty straight forward to me.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:08
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Mister Fister posted:Here, let me quote it and bold it then: You might be an idiot. He never suggested that was why she lost. His game of spinning you all into sexists is being much better pulled off because all you do in response is flail for excuses to call him racist and you can't do it without making poo poo up.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:09
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Is this babby's first intersectionality? Sexism is not a phenomenon limited to white men. Suggesting men of color cannot be sexist is bad and dumb.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:10
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Nevvy Z posted:You might be an idiot. He never suggested that was why she lost. Oh THAT'S the part you're arguing over? Ahahah, come on, he certainly made a racist implication of minority men. Jesus.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:10
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One thing that happened is that the authoritarian vote showed up. Bigly. https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/808412708966043648
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Dec 12, 2016 23:11
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Mister Fister posted:Oh THAT'S the part you're arguing over? Ahahah, come on, he certainly made a racist implication of minority men. Jesus. That's the part that people are whole cloth making up, yes. I don't think he said anything particularly racist, but at least 2 people have accused him of blaming minorities for Trumps win, completely baselessly. That's what you just tried to defend. Maybe you should work on reading gooder.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:11
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Do you boys want to join my club Get Rid Of Slimy clintonS?
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Dec 12, 2016 23:13
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Nevvy Z posted:That's the part that people are whole cloth making up, yes. I think suggesting minorities might be bigots for voting in a certain way when there are far more plausible explanations is pretty racist.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:13
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Mister Fister posted:I think suggesting minorities might be bigots for voting in a certain way when there are far more plausible explanations is pretty racist. Tell me more about who the real racists are.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:14
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Mister Fister posted:I think suggesting minorities might be bigots for voting in a certain way when there are far more plausible explanations is pretty racist. As we've painfully established, your explanations are not plausible.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:15
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Bip Roberts posted:Tell me more about who the real racists are. Tell me more about inevitability and how bernouts were totally wrong.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:16
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JeffersonClay posted:As we've painfully established, your explanations are not plausible. So you're saying a sizable number of black and hispanic men hate women and don't care about lost jobs from outsourcing/automation. Gotcha.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:17
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mcmagic posted:One thing that happened is that the authoritarian vote showed up. Bigly. I dunno, only 51% of Republicans having an unfavorable opinion of Putin seems, not that damning? icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 23:18
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Remember when you said you'd only consider voting for Hillary if she was stripped naked and forced to walk through the crowd and atone like cercei? Maybe you're hyper-reactive when someone starts talking about sexism because that usually means you're about to get in trouble?
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Dec 12, 2016 23:19
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Mister Fister posted:Tell me more about inevitability and how bernouts were totally wrong. I remember all the discussion from Bernie supporters about her specific weaknesses in the rust belt. Also, this is a huge change of subject
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Dec 12, 2016 23:20
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JeffersonClay posted:Remember when you said you'd only consider voting for Hillary if she was stripped naked and forced to walk through the crowd and atone like cercei? No, but i do remember i'd only consider voting for hillary after she got torn apart by Donald. The fact that you have to lie pretty much sums it all.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:21
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Well as long as a man put that uppity woman in her place.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:23
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Mister Fister posted:No, but i do remember i'd only consider voting for hillary after she got torn apart by Donald. The fact that you have to lie pretty much sums it all. Lol, you shook.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:25
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JeffersonClay posted:Well as long as a man put that uppity woman in her place. Right, because she's a woman, not because she's a warhawk and a sellout to corporate interests. But hey, i voted for her, i guess that makes me less "sexist" than those minority men you keep blaming. Bip Roberts posted:Lol, you shook. Remember when you used to go into the s4p subreddit and copy/pasted racist posts to the forums from 1 day old accounts due to 4chan invasions? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 12, 2016 23:26
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JeffersonClay posted:It's not just lack of turnout, it's male POC switching to Trump. This is incredibly misleading. Trump won 13% of black men, and around 30% of Hispanics (though the numbers are still not quite assured there, its still the second showing for Hispanics ever since people started measuring it). Black men voted Hillary more than any other demographic. It was about turnout. EDIT: What I'm saying is, this is on my pale brothers.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:26
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Condiv posted:would like to see this evidence, because there's been published evidence that more often than not they respond to their wealthy constituents' policy preferences, with the poor and middle class being afterthoughts I am also aware of the literature you refer to, like Martin Gilen's Affluence and Influence, and it's good, but less well-established and more controversial from a methodological perspective than the above. The issue is that there is a high degree of correlation between the views of the rich and poor and due to multicollinearity it's hard to integrate the preferences of high and low income earners into a regression model. There is also a high degree of skepticism among low-income voters that the plans from the left to help them will actually work, and at the end of the day many of them would rather just keep their tax money. e: Of course there's a lot more lit out there than what I've cited about responsiveness, which is on the whole kind of a controversial subject and more difficult to prove causally than you might expect. Would be happy to send other article/book recs on the subject over PM. KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 23:39
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Black women were the demographic group most likely to support Clinton and black men were 2nd. I don't disagree that white voters were the real problem, and white men in particular.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:42
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Ok. There was a lack of turnout for AAs tho, but you can say that about any demo, Clinton did terribly with all of em compared to Obama.
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Dec 13, 2016 00:02
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Nevvy Z posted:You didn't even quote it. Probably because you know you are lying. if your best counterargument is "YEAH WELL YOU LINKED IT BUT YOU DIDNT QUOTE IT  " maybe you should just stop
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Dec 13, 2016 00:23
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