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Tekopo posted:Hmmmm I'm starting to think that the Government side in Cuba Libre is the most boring side in any COIN bar none. That's my impression too. Basically 90% of your job is keeping the cities and trying to keep your OP cost low.
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Dec 12, 2016 22:52
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Like you can forget about the country except Las Villas and then just control the cities and hope that the order of events doesn't gently caress you over too much. The government strategy in CL is pre-ordained 90% of the times because of the constraints of the victory condition and your critical lack of resources. It's kind of boring.
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Dec 12, 2016 22:57
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I've said similar things before. Kind of rote, like early NVA actions in FitL. It just never changes.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:33
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Tekopo posted:Hmmmm I'm starting to think that the Government side in Cuba Libre is the most boring side in any COIN bar none. I quite like it, though the late game can be a slog and you certainly don't have the interesting politics of the ADP government. I don't think your Syndicate allies are helping you out too much in the LP game though...
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Dec 13, 2016 00:03
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Took me a while but I read through the whole USCW rulebook time to actually play!
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Dec 13, 2016 00:03
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My brother got me Napoleon's Triumph for Xmas 
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Dec 13, 2016 00:08
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It shipped and it's heavy! 
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Dec 13, 2016 00:12
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T-Bone posted:My brother got me Napoleon's Triumph for Xmas sonofa can I borrow your brother for two weeks
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Dec 13, 2016 00:44
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T-Bone posted:My brother got me Napoleon's Triumph for Xmas
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Dec 13, 2016 00:50
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I feel really bad that I have only played my copy of NT once. Need to get it out again and try to let the strategy click.
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Dec 13, 2016 01:01
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Pax Renaissance came today. Looks like a beaut of a game. The only downside is that Ecklund's insane libertarian scribbling now takes up the bottom 1/4 of most pages in the instruction manual. Someone please get this man an editor.
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Dec 13, 2016 01:06
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He plays a lot of wargames too so it's kind of a gift to himself in a way that sneaky gently caress. I'm a little worried about the adhesive being gone on the stickers but I'm sure I can glue it well enough.Impermanent posted:Pax Renaissance came today. Looks like a beaut of a game. The only downside is that Ecklund's insane libertarian scribbling now takes up the bottom 1/4 of most pages in the instruction manual. Someone please get this man an editor. I see a lot of folks on BGG saying this is the best Pax, would love to hear a review.
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Dec 13, 2016 01:09
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T-Bone posted:My brother got me Napoleon's Triumph for Xmas 
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Dec 13, 2016 01:16
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Impermanent posted:Pax Renaissance came today. Looks like a beaut of a game. The only downside is that Ecklund's insane libertarian scribbling now takes up the bottom 1/4 of most pages in the instruction manual. Someone please get this man an editor. An editor would probably be some sort of oppression to him.
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Dec 13, 2016 01:30
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Impermanent posted:Pax Renaissance came today. Looks like a beaut of a game. The only downside is that Ecklund's insane libertarian scribbling now takes up the bottom 1/4 of most pages in the instruction manual. Someone please get this man an editor. I know what you mean, I was telling a friend of mine after I bought it that's it a good thing I ordered the game before reading the rules book. Although it's pretty drat hilarious to me that Eklund's cynicism means that even some of the things he rails against are represented in the game such as using your political connections to have a monarch overly tax an opponent's merchant shipping. It would also be nice if the glossary didn't contain essential rules. Just keep in mind there are some changes in the living rules now, for example, you can use a corsair action to move a pirate token from the sea of the card it's on to an adjacent card's sea border (which basically means you can never use the corsair action on that pirate token again, but sure whatever man).
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Dec 13, 2016 01:34
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What's the "best" COIN-series game, as far as being the best balanced, most interesting to play, or the best use of the mechanics? I've just started playing a bit of Cuba Libre because I heard it was the recommended game for learning the system. What are the highlights/lowlights of the series?
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Dec 13, 2016 01:45
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Impermanent posted:Pax Renaissance came today. Looks like a beaut of a game. The only downside is that Ecklund's insane libertarian scribbling now takes up the bottom 1/4 of most pages in the instruction manual. Someone please get this man an editor. Please let me know if it's as chaotic and unplayable to newcomers as the other Pax games. Ithle01 posted:Just keep in mind there are some changes in the living rules now, for example, you can use a corsair action to move a pirate token from the sea of the card it's on to an adjacent card's sea border (which basically means you can never use the corsair action on that pirate token again, but sure whatever man). Eklund... Eklund never changes.
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Dec 13, 2016 02:02
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So my biggest hurdle in understanding USCW is Supply and ZOC. They seem so confusing, the whole control mechanic really complicates things.
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Dec 13, 2016 02:17
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The Narrator posted:What's the "best" COIN-series game, as far as being the best balanced, most interesting to play, or the best use of the mechanics? I've just started playing a bit of Cuba Libre because I heard it was the recommended game for learning the system. What are the highlights/lowlights of the series? I've played all of them except Andean Abyss and Falling Sky. It's definitely a weird series where you have to be willing to throw most of what you know from other games out the window (traditional wargames and eurogames alike). They come with a terrifyingly steep learning curve and a lot of negotiation/bluffing/bullying a lot of people can be uncomfortable with. Having said that, I've enjoyed most of the ones I've played, and feel they all have something to offer. Cuba Libre (and apparently Falling sky) are probably the best beginner games because of how well-defined the roles are. FITL comes with a LOT of extra rules and flavour - they can be fun, but can be incredibly intimidating for newbies. Distant Plain is good, but the theme can be a little too close to home for some people . Liberty or Death is the most conventional Wargamey of them all, and I'd argue is probably the COIN mechanics being used to simulate a conventional war rather than as a proper COIN game. I'd also probably avoid it if you're looking a COIN game, as it's the least COIN-y of all the games, though it IS a good game.
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Dec 13, 2016 02:31
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The Narrator posted:What's the "best" COIN-series game, as far as being the best balanced, most interesting to play, or the best use of the mechanics? I've just started playing a bit of Cuba Libre because I heard it was the recommended game for learning the system. What are the highlights/lowlights of the series? I own Cuba Libre, Falling Sky and Fire In The Lake, and I enjoy them all. I don't know why people lump Falling Sky in with Cuba Libre as a "beginner" COIN. Maybe because of the smaller map? But it's a lot more complex, with a broader range of strategic options. For me, it sits in the sweet spot in terms of interesting dynamics between the factions and reasonable playing time. It also has the most sophisticated bots. For the ones I haven't played, this is what I've picked up from the thread: Andean Abyss came out first, so it's the roughest (particularly the limited bots), but it's not a bad game. Many people consider A Distant Plain to be the most interesting multiplayer experience, but not as great for solo. Conversely, Liberty or Death might be best solo or two-player, because the French and Indian factions are so limited in their choices.
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Dec 13, 2016 03:48
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Thanks for the feedback. My first game was with one other person and bots (which I know is not recommended) with me as Govt and them as July26, so we missed out on the politicking that seems intended for 4 players. The rules are steep, though I appreciate CL's (and GMT rulebooks in general) thoroughness with rules and the strictness of their phrasing. The real difficulty is just remembering how all the pieces fit into place and being consistent on rulez- there was a lot of "hmm, I'm gonna do this" *flipflipflip* "oops, I can't actually do that." Some cards didn't parse well, though we worked them out eventually. I'm not bothered by LoD being an un-COINy COIN game if it's still a good game, though I would still like to get the COIN 'experience' first (which I guess involves having a full player count too). I'll probably check it out at some point, because the theme is appealing to me. The theming for ADP doesn't bother me so I might check that and Falling Skies out too if they're a good development of the system/dynamic. CL is probably the closest thing to a wargame I've ever played (despite not strictly belonging to the wargame category) so I'm excited to branch out too. Thanks for the thoughts!
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Dec 13, 2016 03:50
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Tekopo posted:Hmmmm I'm starting to think that the Government side in Cuba Libre is the most boring side in any COIN bar none. It's statements like this that makes me glad I got ADP as my first COIN (to sit on my bookshelf unplayed).
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Dec 13, 2016 06:18
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CaptainRightful posted:I own Cuba Libre, Falling Sky and Fire In The Lake, and I enjoy them all. I think Falling Sky is considered a more beginner friendly coin because it has some of the least rules overhead, especially compared to FITL with its Ho Chi Minh trail, Conventional vs Conventional combat, , and the teleporting/smite buttoning bulldozer that is the coalition in ADP.
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Dec 13, 2016 08:38
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tomdidiot posted:I think Falling Sky is considered a more beginner friendly coin because it has some of the least rules overhead, especially compared to FITL with its Ho Chi Minh trail, Conventional vs Conventional combat, , and the teleporting/smite buttoning bulldozer that is the coalition in ADP. I learnt the system on ADP and have played it with a lot of first time players, and personally I think it's a better intro to the system than Falling Sky. FS has the problem that it is very "mathy" compared to other COIN games due to having to calculate your odds for battle and is one of the least forgiving in the fact that you can be crushed hard if you don't play well. Also a poor Roman player can really screw the game for the Arverni and Aedui if they don't properly keep the Belgae down. A lot of the factions in ADP can come from behind easily, especially the Taliban since they can Rally in over half the map. It's quite forgiving in that regard.
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Dec 13, 2016 12:39
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So, while I keep looking for a mint copy of Victory Roads, what are the thread's recommendations for full ETO games? A note here is that chrome/historical cruft, as well as aesthetically pleasing maps and counters are pretty important for the desired group experience: WiF has a plenty of chrome and the rules don't seem impenetrable, but I don't know if I wanted to pay money for a map that ugly. UncSur seems interesting, but I am worried it might skimp on the chrome. Are there any all-ETO games as pretty as VR? PoontifexMacksimus fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Dec 13, 2016 |
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Dec 13, 2016 13:20
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anti_strunt posted:So, while I keep looking for a mint copy of Victory Roads, what are the thread's recommendations for full ETO games?
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Dec 13, 2016 13:54
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anti_strunt posted:So, while I keep looking for a mint copy of Victory Roads, what are the thread's recommendations for full ETO games? VR is still in print at the publisher.
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Dec 13, 2016 14:08
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What's "chrome" for a wargame? Thicker chits? An actual board instead of a tissue paper map? Dice with symbols on it??
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Dec 13, 2016 14:44
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al-azad posted:What's "chrome" for a wargame? Thicker chits? An actual board instead of a tissue paper map? Dice with symbols on it?? Historical fidelity. Often, but not necessarily, refers to little rules and exceptions bolted onto a core of the system purely for flavor purposes.
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Dec 13, 2016 14:50
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al-azad posted:What's "chrome" for a wargame? Thicker chits? An actual board instead of a tissue paper map? Dice with symbols on it?? Chrome is rules and exceptions laid on top of the base rules for the purpose of historical accuracy or detail. COIN games are a good example of games with little chrome, as the necessary details to give the factions flavour are tied up in the rules themselves and how the factions interact with other. Ted Raicer games like Paths of Glory are a good example of games with a lot of chrome - look at all the special rules for the 1914 turn for example, like banning the Central Powers from entering coastal French spaces until Race to the Sea gets played, because that's not what happened in reality and the rules wouldn't disallow it otherwise. e:f,b
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Dec 13, 2016 14:50
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al-azad posted:What's "chrome" for a wargame? Thicker chits? An actual board instead of a tissue paper map? Dice with symbols on it??
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Dec 13, 2016 14:53
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Well I didn't know chrome referred to rules and not better components, certainly a big difference between wargames and everything else. Although now I want to make a salty joke and say a Civil War game's chrome would be USC troops take damage first.
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Dec 13, 2016 15:43
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Ithle01 posted:Just keep in mind there are some changes in the living rules now, for example, you can use a corsair action to move a pirate token from the sea of the card it's on to an adjacent card's sea border (which basically means you can never use the corsair action on that pirate token again, but sure whatever man). Welp, that's a rule I got wrong, and I even knew about the change in the living rules. Totally missed/forgot about the part where they don't work like bishops in terms of the ops. I've gotten to play Pax Renaissance twice now. One thing I have noticed is that some victory types may be more difficult than others from one game to the next, especially religious victory. In reading the rules, I conceived of a game where many things would change hands and directions; in practice, the limited deck means that some things may happen only once, or not at all. One game saw no bishops out, and the second saw one come out. An emporium changed once in two games. I have never seen a card flip to theocratic (or to the other theocracy). Edit: empires totally change hands, though. That went as expected. Overall, I feel as though I've only scratched the surface of the game, in terms of appreciating what a real strategy would look like over the course of a game.
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Dec 13, 2016 16:01
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homullus posted:Welp, that's a rule I got wrong, and I even knew about the change in the living rules. Totally missed/forgot about the part where they don't work like bishops in terms of the ops. That sounds like a Eklund game alright. Porfiriana could lead to situations where a depression hit and because you remove something like 50% of the cards from the deck it's possible you're just broke for the remainder of the game. And things swap around a lot in Pamir to the point where you have to stop and recount which empire could possibly contend for supremacy. How many did you play with? Did it feel chaotic? Could people read the state of the game from halfway across the table?
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Dec 13, 2016 16:12
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al-azad posted:That sounds like a Eklund game alright. Porfiriana could lead to situations where a depression hit and because you remove something like 50% of the cards from the deck it's possible you're just broke for the remainder of the game. And things swap around a lot in Pamir to the point where you have to stop and recount which empire could possibly contend for supremacy. I played with three once and four once, I think. There is a lot of confusion for new players initially because nobody knows what cards are good, and reading the cards on the market and in others' tableaux can be challenging (though the icons are reasonably clear). I can't compare to other Pax games since I haven't played them. The board state itself is pretty easy to understand, if you understand what ops people can perform (which is harder, but if they get something good, you can count on their using it often to remind you). You can't end up broke since you can always sell cards and/or initiate trade fairs. Tracking who's close to which victory condition can be a little bit of an exercise, especially with the expansion, but players need to "activate" victory conditions to claim them, so you only need to compute the ones that are currently active.
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Dec 13, 2016 16:30
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Does the expansion feel like they cut heavier mechanics for no reason other than to sell you the advanced game separate? Like Eklund's High Frontier has the full rules for the expansion in the original rulebook and is like "If you want the fun poo poo send me 15 euro" *wink*
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Dec 13, 2016 16:42
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al-azad posted:Does the expansion feel like they cut heavier mechanics for no reason other than to sell you the advanced game separate? Like Eklund's High Frontier has the full rules for the expansion in the original rulebook and is like "If you want the fun poo poo send me 15 euro" *wink* The expansion adds cards that make the game's pendulum swing harder ("your X are now free" or "your Y are now also Z"), ones that slow the game end ("declaring a Renaissance victory now costs two actions"), and "Renaissance Man" cards, and a new One Shot on some cards (Apostasy, which names two of the three religions in the game -- any player with cards in both of the two discards all of their cards of those religions (!!)). The net result is not heavier mechanics but additional new ways for sudden changes to the course of history.
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Dec 13, 2016 17:32
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tomdidiot posted:VR is still in print at the publisher. The idea of a big wargame being in print seemed so outrageous I never checked! This'll be the first time I actually buy one first hand... PoontifexMacksimus fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Dec 13, 2016 |
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Dec 13, 2016 17:36
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anti_strunt posted:The idea of a big wargame being in print seemed so outrageous I never checked! This'll be the first time I actually buy one first hand... Hexasim actually reprints their stuff whenever they run out. Amazing, isn't it.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:09
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Obfuscation posted:Hexasim actually reprints their stuff whenever they run out. Amazing, isn't it.  Well, I guess I could get both Roads games and just play the ETO that way...
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Dec 13, 2016 22:22
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