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Turns out if you spend the entire primary sneering at Millenials because they don't want to get their adult lives strangled in the crib due to student loans they don't come out and vote for you Holy gently caress, what a concept.
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Dec 13, 2016 17:49
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BarbarianElephant posted:Assuming you live in the USA too, I don't think you can be completely dispassionate about this issue. Unless you are a Trump supporter, in which case, congrats. The only thing making me "dispassionate" about politics are the useless milquetoast liberals (clinton huffers) dragging us all down into the Trump cavern by way of utter political ineptitude.
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Dec 13, 2016 17:50
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Fiction posted:The only thing making me "dispassionate" about politics are the useless milquetoast liberals (clinton huffers) dragging us all down into the Trump cavern by way of utter political ineptitude. Get on yer bike and start volunteering for your favorite political party. What? They aren't 100% to your liking? Here is your chance to do your little bit to change that.
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Dec 13, 2016 17:52
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Hillary's student loan program was hilarious
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Dec 13, 2016 17:52
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BarbarianElephant posted:Assuming you live in the USA too, I don't think you can be completely dispassionate about this issue. Unless you are a Trump supporter, in which case, congrats. I am not a Trump supporter. I'm 29 and I didn't vote, despite voting in every single other election since I turned 18 (even the mid terms). I felt that neither candidate really gave a gently caress about any of my issues, so I stayed home. I put in my good faith as a voter. I went to the polls plenty of times on nothing but promises that didn't pan out. It seems like we're slowly stagnating no matter who is at the helm and I don't really trust anyone at the top to do much about it, so I've withdrawn.
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Dec 13, 2016 17:53
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:In many ways Obama, not Bernie Sanders, was most responsible for progressivism becoming a thing in the Democratic Party. Mostly because very few people knew who Bernie Sanders was until about January of the current year.
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Dec 13, 2016 17:53
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BarbarianElephant posted:Get on yer bike and start volunteering for your favorite political party. What? They aren't 100% to your liking? Here is your chance to do your little bit to change that. a lot of us are or are trying barbarianelepant. i've called my state party multiple times this month offering what support i can and they still haven't contacted me back even though they've promised to. what the hell are you doing to try to save the dems?
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Dec 13, 2016 17:55
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BarbarianElephant posted:Assuming you live in the USA too, I don't think you can be completely dispassionate about this issue. Unless you are a Trump supporter, in which case, congrats. The whole point of politics is that the politicians at least pretend to care about the voters and the whole "vote for the Centrist becsuse they're more electable" just got blown up in the most hilarious way. I was fine sacrificing my principles and slowly losing when it actually worked. I'm not interested in your version of limpdick incrementalism anymore and if we get another Clinton wing candidate in 2020 I'm not voting for the democrats. If the choices are between "compromise my values and lose" and "vote for third party but feel good about it (and lose)", I'm taking the latter. Good luck pissing off the most liberal generation in recent history though! That'll work out great, honest!
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Dec 13, 2016 17:55
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Fiction posted:The only thing making me "dispassionate" about politics are the useless milquetoast liberals (clinton huffers) dragging us all down into the Trump cavern by way of utter political ineptitude. I think this is the time for reflection and learning, before the new Congress tries repealing Medicare in 2018 and people really get angry. EDIT: Well more like fall 2017.
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Dec 13, 2016 17:56
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Chomp8645 posted:I am not a Trump supporter. I'm 29 and I didn't vote, despite voting in every single other election since I turned 18 (even the mid terms). I felt that neither candidate really gave a gently caress about any of my issues, so I stayed home. You know what? I bet that Trump cares a great deal about your issues, in the sense that Hitler cared a great deal about the Jews. But on the plus side, when it all goes to rack and ruin, you can be all smug about the fact you didn't vote Trump and so have absolutely no culpability for what happens. Enjoy the moral high ground. Chomp8645 posted:I put in my good faith as a voter. I went to the polls plenty of times on nothing but promises that didn't pan out. This is pretty much how politics works. Progress is glacial, regression can happen very fast. Hold onto your hat! We are in for quite a ride!
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Dec 13, 2016 17:56
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BarbarianElephant posted:Assuming you live in the USA too, I don't think you can be completely dispassionate about this issue. Unless you are a Trump supporter, in which case, congrats. this idiotic argument doesn't work. hillary tried it hard during the general and she lost to neo-mussolini. DEMS NEED TO ACTUALLY APPEAL TO VOTERS IF THEY WANT TO WIN!
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Dec 13, 2016 17:57
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Fiction posted:The only thing making me "dispassionate" about politics are the useless milquetoast liberals (clinton huffers) dragging us all down into the Trump cavern by way of utter political ineptitude. What type of primary process would allow you to support the eventual winning candidate, assuming it isn't your first choice?
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Dec 13, 2016 17:58
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If the Democratic party actually gives a poo poo about helping out minorities and the disadvantaged as they claim they better quit the bullshit blaming voters for not doing the duty and voting enough yesterday. That doesn't get anyone to the polls and has never worked despite the snide insinuation that they are being betrayed by leftists/young people/etc not being loyal enough despite only being given small considerations if any. Even if they do nothing at all starting at "maybe not being openly antagonistic to potential voters" is a good start and if they are more concerned with party unity and being dogmatically stuck on the idea that since people SHOULD vote against Republicans they will goddammit than actually getting elected I will call into question their actual concern for anyone.
Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Dec 13, 2016 |
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Dec 13, 2016 17:59
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zegermans posted:What type of primary process would allow you to support the eventual winning candidate, assuming it isn't your first choice? one that doesn't select a candidate that appeals to no-one and refuses to appeal to anyone in lieu of flinging poo poo at their opponent
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Dec 13, 2016 17:59
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zegermans posted:What type of primary process would allow you to support the eventual winning candidate, assuming it isn't your first choice? Not clearing the way for one candidate to run against the vote of no-confidence against her and some also-rans.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:00
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Like Clinton won the primary there's no dispute, but the fact that before it even started everyone knew exactly how it was going to go, with the small unexpected road bump of Bernie Sanders, says a lot to the argument it wasn't really run as a way find the most effective 2016 Presidential candidate. Say what you will about the GOP clownshow but it certainly picked the right guy to take down Clinton.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:02
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Condiv posted:a lot of us are or are trying barbarianelepant. i've called my state party multiple times this month offering what support i can and they still haven't contacted me back even though they've promised to. what the hell are you doing to try to save the dems? You probably have to actually go along to meetings, you know. Don't require others to give you permission before you do something. If the Democrats in your area are in a bad way - understaffed and demoralized - they aren't going to be in to mood to baby you along and tell you exactly what to do. The dems in my area are doing fantastic. Frankly, I think they are doing an ace job and are completely on the right track. The Republican party might as well not exist in my area. Also I have personal issues I won't go into that make it hard for me to commit to anything right now. What I do plan to do is *vote* - every time I am allowed to - even for local offices. Democrats forget to do that a lot, which is why local government is Republican led.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:03
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Who exactly could have run to compete with Clinton, that didn't, because the DNC "cleared the way"? Also, claiming that her massive vote advantage was just "rigging" minimizes the massive minority support she received, because it implies their votes didn't matter.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:04
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The fact that the Democrats had no one other than Hillary Clinton to effectively run for President after eight years of Obama is a pretty damning example of their incompetence as politicians.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:05
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BarbarianElephant posted:You know what? I bet that Trump cares a great deal about your issues, in the sense that Hitler cared a great deal about the Jews. I really don't feel like you are taking my words in good faith.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:05
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Chomp8645 posted:I really don't feel like you are taking my words in good faith. What do you mean by that?
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Dec 13, 2016 18:05
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Biden is probably feeling like poo poo atm
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Dec 13, 2016 18:06
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BarbarianElephant posted:Assuming you live in the USA too, I don't think you can be completely dispassionate about this issue. Unless you are a Trump supporter, in which case, congrats. I personally find it distasteful to call Hillary merely uninspiring when the thing I want to be "inspired" about is "no longer supporting the bombing of Yemeni children."
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Dec 13, 2016 18:11
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"I mean we have no choice but to nominate this 70 year old that is hated more than anyone in the world by the other party, has twenty years of character assassination against her, and is under a potential FBI investigation. There's literally no one else we can try." A political party that is serious about running a candidate for President.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:11
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Radish posted:"I mean we have no choice but to nominate this 70 year old that is hated more than anyone in the world by the other party, has twenty years of character assassination against her, and is under a potential FBI investigation. There's literally no one else we can try." A political party that is serious about running a candidate for President. So, who was prevented from running as an alternative? It's not like there weren't primary elections.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:12
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BarbarianElephant posted:The dems in my area are doing fantastic. Frankly, I think they are doing an ace job and are completely on the right track. The Republican party might as well not exist in my area. Also I have personal issues I won't go into that make it hard for me to commit to anything right now. What I do plan to do is *vote* - every time I am allowed to - even for local offices. Democrats forget to do that a lot, which is why local government is Republican led. so you actually do nothing. you sit on your rear end and do the bare minimum to help a party that is currently on the cusp nationally. oh wait, you also go onto forums and act like you're superior to us that are actually voluteering. BarbarianElephant posted:You probably have to actually go along to meetings, you know. Don't require others to give you permission before you do something. If the Democrats in your area are in a bad way - understaffed and demoralized - they aren't going to be in to mood to baby you along and tell you exactly what to do. how am i supposed to go to okdem meetings while i live in france idiot. what i can do is offer web admin and tech support for candidates and representatives in my state, something the oklahoma dems have expressed interest in (and that they need desperately looking at the sites of may pols in my state, when they exist). i'm trying to set things up with them and help out in the only way i can right now, why do you feel like you can talk down to me when you just sit on your rear end and expect the dems to be ushered into power without your aid?
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Dec 13, 2016 18:13
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Ugh you lefties need to nut up and vote for this uninspiring candidate that will continue to hold Chelsea Manning in foreverjail, support the Saudis while they obliterate starving peasants with our missiles, etc etc
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Dec 13, 2016 18:13
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Condiv posted:so you actually do nothing. you sit on your rear end and do the bare minimum to help a party that is currently on the cusp nationally. oh wait, you also go onto forums and act like you're superior to us that are actually voluteering. I'm not going to go into more detail because I don't want to go into detail about my life on the internet (doxxing exists) but this makes me really mad and I wish I could go volunteer but I REALLY CAN'T.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:14
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daydrinking is fun posted:Ugh you lefties need to nut up and vote for this uninspiring candidate that will continue to hold Chelsea Manning in foreverjail, support the Saudis while they obliterate starving peasants with our missiles, etc etc This but unironically. Because having a competent politician in the white house probably matters. *cue "if competent, why lost?" Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Dec 13, 2016 |
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Dec 13, 2016 18:16
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zegermans posted:So, who was prevented from running as an alternative? It's not like there weren't primary elections. Like I said the fact they apparently had no one other than her is pretty disastrous from a party that is supposedly trying to win elections. Saying "well who got out of the way for her?" is missing the next question of why was there no one else better? They had eight years to groom a successor.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:16
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*implies trump is Hitler and therefore not voting for Hillary is a vote for Hitler* *accuses others of trying to obtain the moral high ground*
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Dec 13, 2016 18:18
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Business Gorillas posted:*implies trump is Hitler and therefore not voting for Hillary is a vote for Hitler* Eighty percent of the knives-out internal violence between liberals and the left post-election is from liberals suddenly realizing that leftists are also on their vaunted high ground & are now trying to kick them off.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:19
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Business Gorillas posted:*implies trump is Hitler and therefore not voting for Hillary is a vote for Hitler* He ain't far off. At the very least, he's John the Baptist for fascists - preparing the way for an even bigger fascist to come after him. Remember when he praised Duterte, the biggest fascist in the world today? Or have we forgotten that already because it wasn't as funny as bitching about the cast of Hamilton? I wouldn't freak out like this if McCain or Romney was the victor. I don't like their politics, but in democracy you win some, you lose some. THIS. IS. DIFFERENT.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:21
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BarbarianElephant posted:I wouldn't freak out like this if McCain or Romney was the victor. I don't like their politics, but in democracy you win some, you lose some. THIS. IS. DIFFERENT. So you weren't freaked out by a guy who sang songs about bombing Iran as a joke or the dude who called himself 'Severely' conservative, but this orange racist is what's got you really scared?
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Dec 13, 2016 18:22
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BarbarianElephant posted:He ain't far off. At the very least, he's John the Baptist for fascists - preparing the way for an even bigger fascist to come after him. Maybe Hillary should have campaigned in the states she lost to the fascist? 
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Dec 13, 2016 18:22
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daydrinking is fun posted:Ugh you lefties need to nut up and vote for this uninspiring candidate that will continue to hold Chelsea Manning in foreverjail, support the Saudis while they obliterate starving peasants with our missiles, etc etc So now you have all that plus an AG who thinks weed is worse than the Klan.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:23
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zegermans posted:So now you have all that plus an AG who thinks weed is worse than the Klan. When given those two options, most people on the left aren't going to vote for someone who is 12% less terrible, they're going to stay home. If you don't play ball with them, you're going to keep losing.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:24
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BarbarianElephant posted:You probably have to actually go along to meetings, you know. Don't require others to give you permission before you do something. If the Democrats in your area are in a bad way - understaffed and demoralized - they aren't going to be in to mood to baby you along and tell you exactly what to do. They'll all last about a month longer than your average New Year's Gym Membership once they realize that they have to work with other people to get poo poo accomplished who have different ideas. From the comments some people seem to make around here, I bet they'll not even last that long because the other Democrats will get tired of their messiah complex.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:24
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daydrinking is fun posted:When given those two options, most people on the left aren't going to vote for someone who is 12% less terrible, they're going to stay home. If you don't play ball with them, you're going to keep losing. Yet True Believer conservatives don't have this issue, which is why we lose. They're willing to hold their nose when they don't get their way, instead of running for the fire escape and then barring the exit.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:26
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daydrinking is fun posted:So you weren't freaked out by a guy who sang songs about bombing Iran as a joke or the dude who called himself 'Severely' conservative, but this orange racist is what's got you really scared? Yes. And you should be too.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:27
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