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Elman posted:I did it. I loving did it  gently caress yeah on the WC, man.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:23
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I'm cautiously optimistic. I like the idea of making different eras of the game feel more distinct. This could finally make the late game interesting and make me want to play past 1700. I think the tough part here is going to be balancing giving things more structure and giving the player more objectives, which could be cool, against putting everything on rails. It's also a little weird that based on what we know so far, this doesn't interact with Institutions, which would seem to be a natural complement or even vehicle for Ages. Also yeah even more feature bloat, but PleasingFungus is right that that ship sailed along ago anyway.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:23
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Exactly. Give me paid features for upgrades to existing systems! I'd totally be onboard for a dlc that added a bunch of new tiles, the option for a fully random world, and some other fun features for custom nations/randomization.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:26
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Not sure making the game mechanics more complicated is such a good idea...
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Dec 13, 2016 18:30
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My concern about replacing the current lucky nations with a 'dynamic' system is that lucky nations isn't just historical railroading; it's also, and more importantly, a way to try to extend challenge into the late-game, by providing some extra-powerful mega-blobs for the player to fight after becoming super powerful. That's not something that the ages' special bonuses will provide - they're far too narrow & limited for that. Luckily, it doesn't look like they're actually replacing lucky nations with this, as far as I can tell? Here's something else I'm wondering. If Mughals are going to get special bonuses, does that mean that Paradox thinks they've found a way to get the Mughals to actually form in 1444-start games? That'd be real nice.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:46
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PleasingFungus posted:My concern about replacing the current lucky nations with a 'dynamic' system is that lucky nations isn't just historical railroading; it's also, and more importantly, a way to try to extend challenge into the late-game, by providing some extra-powerful mega-blobs for the player to fight after becoming super powerful. That's not something that the ages' special bonuses will provide - they're far too narrow & limited for that. Luckily, it doesn't look like they're actually replacing lucky nations with this, as far as I can tell? It could also be them focusing on start dates other than 1444 and perhaps including achievements for starting in different eras?
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Dec 13, 2016 18:52
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Baron Corbyn posted:It could also be them focusing on start dates other than 1444 and perhaps including achievements for starting in different eras? I think they've said that like, 99.9% of all games (no exaggeration) are started at 1444, so I suspect them spending any effort (other then not breaking what's already there) on later start dates is near 0.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:57
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lol Paradox can't win, if they focus on patching and detail work people say the DLC is pointless, if they add a new feature people freak out about bloat
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Dec 13, 2016 18:58
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Fintilgin posted:I think they've said that like, 99.9% of all games (no exaggeration) are started at 1444, so I suspect them spending any effort (other then not breaking what's already there) on later start dates is near 0. Having each era be different might change that? How many games actually reach 1710?
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Dec 13, 2016 19:01
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I half expected them to add in administrators as another manpower pool as a troll
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Dec 13, 2016 19:08
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Alikchi posted:lol Paradox can't win, if they focus on patching and detail work people say the DLC is pointless, if they add a new feature people freak out about bloat The bloat is actually a real and serious issue because they can't make all of the new systems work together organically because of how their DLC model works. They're going to have to bite the bullet at some point and either give some old DLC mechanics away for free or else the game is going to become a total mess (some would argue that it has already). I mean take the game with all DLC from the ground up and imagine explaining it to a new player, there's so many completely unrelated systems which all do similar things it's absurd. OTOH this new thing sounds pretty cool even though it should tie into tech and/or institutions rather than arbitrary dates.
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Dec 13, 2016 19:20
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RabidWeasel posted:The bloat is actually a real and serious issue because they can't make all of the new systems work together organically because of how their DLC model works. They're going to have to bite the bullet at some point and either give some old DLC mechanics away for free or else the game is going to become a total mess (some would argue that it has already). Arumba and Filthyrobot (both are youtubers) are doing a series where Arumba is teaching EUIV and going deep into the mechanics. I think they ended up unpausing once in the first few 20 minute episodes with all the poo poo that needed to be explained. I like the idea behind the new feature, but these things feel like they could be done as an extension of the existing mission system rather than bolting an entirely new system onto the game.
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Dec 13, 2016 19:33
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the first game i played ended quickly because i vassalized lorraine, which was one of burgundy's missions. that's when i learned about the hre and ae
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Dec 13, 2016 19:37
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Ages seem like a good replacement for the now almost vestigial (aside from the historical ones) mission system.Pellisworth posted:Yeah, adding more objectives for players is cool but I would really like Paradox to tweak existing mechanics rather than adding whole new ones. The last thing EU4 needs right now is more complex systems and UI elements. Sindai fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Dec 13, 2016 |
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Dec 13, 2016 20:26
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Ages feel like bloat to me, but at least it's the sort of bloat that offers concrete goals to the player. In a big game like this I enjoy always feeling that there are Things I Can Do (tm), and this mechanic provides more of that. Admittedly it does so in what looks to me like a gamey and non-organic way, but at the bottom line I get more short- and mid-term goals I can pursue for goodies and I appreciate that.
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Dec 13, 2016 20:34
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There are so many ways they could have made it integrated and organic, is the worst of it. Just tie it into institutions. Move the institution dates around a bit or change them slightly if you feel like they don't fit exactly. You just added this enormous overhaul that allows for changes to the game as it progresses over certain dates and then... did it again, with another loving UI element and a whole different set of dates.
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Dec 13, 2016 20:36
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RabidWeasel posted:I mean take the game with all DLC from the ground up and imagine explaining it to a new player, there's so many completely unrelated systems which all do similar things it's absurd. It does seem weird to have yet another in-game currency introduced. Like it seems like you could have folded Splendor into Prestige or something. Like each Age Quest you complete gives you +X% Prestige for X years (until end of era?), and then the bonuses are purchased at the cost of like 50 or 75 Prestige or something. Or maybe the Age Bonuses are purchased with monarch points but each Age Quest you complete gives you substantial % (10?) off buying them. Fintilgin fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Dec 13, 2016 |
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Dec 13, 2016 20:38
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Fintilgin posted:Like it seems like you could have folded Splendor into Prestige or something. this is a great idea, it would suddenly make prestige valuable and it would mean there are more organic (if slower) ways to get the rewards outside of having to do very specific things.
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Dec 13, 2016 20:42
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Baron Corbyn posted:Convoluted? I think the word you're looking for is... byzantine. 
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Dec 13, 2016 20:49
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Yeah this kind of feels like it's crossed the line of "way too much stuff to keep track of".
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Dec 13, 2016 21:04
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Sindai posted:Ages seem like a good replacement for the now almost vestigial (aside from the historical ones) mission system. Missions are good for the AI though, and give it incentives to do things it might otherwise not.
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Dec 13, 2016 21:13
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Prestige is useful now. It allows you to play monarch lottery. And I really like the new system because it could possibly make keeping track of special events a lot more comfortable if it replaces most before/after year whatever conditions with age something. It really should be bound to institutions somehow though.
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Dec 13, 2016 21:16
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Splendor, Prestige, and Power Projection all feel to me like different measures of the same thing (your esteem in the eyes of the global community) and I should think there's a coherent way to integrate them. Maybe in the far-off future world of EU5 they will be.
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Dec 13, 2016 21:16
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I like it but I agree with the splendor/prestige/power projection thing.
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Dec 13, 2016 21:18
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Having institutions and ages be separate things is awful.
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Dec 13, 2016 21:19
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Not to be a broken record but I love how the first Age is basically pointless for non Europe
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Dec 13, 2016 21:22
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I like the idea of Ages and I don't think it's too much feature bloat but I do think they should somehow be tied into institutions rather than having static starting and ending dates.
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Dec 13, 2016 21:26
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Seems like you could add a single institution and even it out. One institution comes at the beginning of each age and one at the midpoint. Age of Discovery => 1400 -1530 Feudalism 1400 Renaissance 1450 Age of Reformation => 1530 - 1620 Colonialism 1530 Renamed Printing Press 1580 Age of Absolutism => 1620 - 1710 Global Trade 1620 Manufactories 1670 Age of Revolutions => 1710-1821 Enlightenment 1710 Revolution 1760
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Dec 13, 2016 21:29
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This looks very cool. +1 for integrating it with Institutions. I get that people are upset that it seems eurocentric but I'm honestly okay with that for the "Age of Discovery," so long as the ones that follow are more balanced. It's not like the generic bonuses are that insane or anything.
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Dec 13, 2016 21:41
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Also institutions broke the fantasy random new world again. High Americans are a joke now.
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Dec 13, 2016 22:25
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I'm still not sure what power projection does for me tbh
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Dec 13, 2016 22:34
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Seems like a missed chance to bring the missions/triggered modifiers/achievements together into a single mechanic.
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Dec 13, 2016 22:40
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Ofaloaf posted:I'm still not sure what power projection does for me tbh It's a thing they added that does very limited things and takes some care and attention to increase or optimize in any way. 99% of the time I forget it's even there. The bonuses aren't good enough for me to really base my wars or plans on, so it's just some bloat sitting up there on the bar.
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Dec 13, 2016 22:40
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if you go to war with a rival and have 40% warscore to spare you'll probably get +1 to each mp out of it so that's cool
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Dec 13, 2016 22:43
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RabidWeasel posted:
Haha this is me as of the last couple weeks. Bought the collection on steam after playing the base game for about 2 hours. It hasn't been so bad, have had to ask some questions in this thread and reference the wiki a lot. Googling problems helps also, though you often get answers from different patches. Couldn't say I understand all the mechanics but think I'm getting the hang of it and it doesn't seem like you have to know everything to do ok as a strong starter. In saying that my first game I stopped at about 1550 as the Ottomans as it had been about 20 hours and I got over it a bit. Will come back to them. Started again as England and have made it to the same time period in less than half the time, really enjoying this one. Things certainly pop up though, like I'm colonising the poo poo out of the Americas and all my colonies are turning into colonial nations. I now see what triggers that, but I'm not entirely sure if it's something I should aim for or what. Also I had 4 or 5 colonists at one point all going at once, suddenly I only had 3 colonists and 5 colonies which cost me 20 gold per month maintenance and almost bankrupted me. Not sure what happened there but it was fine in the end.
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Dec 13, 2016 22:44
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jpparker55 posted:Things certainly pop up though, like I'm colonising the poo poo out of the Americas and all my colonies are turning into colonial nations. I now see what triggers that, but I'm not entirely sure if it's something I should aim for or what. Also I had 4 or 5 colonists at one point all going at once, suddenly I only had 3 colonists and 5 colonies which cost me 20 gold per month maintenance and almost bankrupted me. Not sure what happened there but it was fine in the end.
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Dec 13, 2016 22:56
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I dont know how you would have had more than 3 colonists, but to explain it: Each colony costs a base of 2.0 ducats a month in upkeep. You can have one growing colony per colonists in your pool. Thus if you have three colonists and three colonies, you are paying 2.0 per colony. If you go over that limit you pay double for the colony that is over. The doubling continues. Thus if you have three colonists and five colonies, you will be paying 2 + 2 + 2 + 4 + 8. As the colonies finish, are abandoned, or are lost in war, the costs re-settle to normal. Maybe I didn't and that would explain how I got myself into that situation.
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Dec 13, 2016 23:01
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Baronjutter posted:It's a thing they added that does very limited things and takes some care and attention to increase or optimize in any way. 99% of the time I forget it's even there. The bonuses aren't good enough for me to really base my wars or plans on, so it's just some bloat sitting up there on the bar. lol ok
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Dec 13, 2016 23:05
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If Humiliate wasn't so expensive I'd probably care about it a lot more
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Dec 13, 2016 23:06
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In the early game I always humiliate. It used to stagnate where it's too much effort by the later game when your only rivals are like the commonwealth and ottomans, but with great powers passively giving PP and extra from privateering, I make sure to stay over 50 pretty much from start to finish now. +1 in every stat is worth going a little bit out of your way for, and then the other bonuses hardly hurt.
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Dec 13, 2016 23:24
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