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Neddy Seagoon posted:There's one question no-one seems to be asking; Agnika Kaieru 
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Dec 12, 2016 20:36
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Argas posted:An Order of the Seven Stars was not worth potentially waking up the mobile armor in the process, but now that the mobile armor is active, why not? It'd put him closer to Agnika Kaieru, who is pretty much a hero figure to him. You know who McGillis said reminded him of Agnika Kaieru? Mika You know who is standing in front of the MA right now? Mika Mika is going to destroy Hashmal and McGillis is going to fanboy the gently caress out and try to make Mika King of Space, calling it now.
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Dec 12, 2016 20:36
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Neddy Seagoon posted:There's one question no-one seems to be asking; I've been wondering that too, but like BizarroAzrael said, we don't have enough information to even speculate outside of guessing. I really like how IBO had been handling the mystery of the Calamity War and adding increasingly complex layers to it. My first assumption was that it was fought between factions both using Gundam Frames and that the demonic naming scheme was just for flavor, but the introduction of the mobile armor completely changed that while still making sense with previously established information.
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Dec 12, 2016 21:29
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paragon1 posted:This reminds me: I really like that for all the big plans and plotting he does, McGillis is just as broken and delusional as the rest of Gallajhorn seems to be. His delusions are just a little more person like "I too am a war orphan who hates the way the world is, Tekkadan. It's like I'm already a member of your family! I hope Mika likes me." instead of "The world is just and good and since I'm in power clearly that means I'm competent and right."
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Dec 12, 2016 22:16
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Because it turns out they're secretly manipulative and evil in many Gundam series, I'm going to wildly guess humans around Jupiter are responsible.  In all seriousness we really don't have enough to do anything other than mass guessing though.
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Dec 12, 2016 22:19
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The AIs were obviously created by the Trade Federation, duh.
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Dec 12, 2016 22:20
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I am really starting to like Hush. At first he comes in as this cocky rear end in a top hat, but reality quickly humbles him which encourages him to take a fresh look at everything. So unlike the rest of the cast which see Mika as this badass warrior and hero, he actually sees him as a person and is growing more and more horrified at just what Mika so willingly does on a constant basis.
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Dec 12, 2016 23:07
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paragon1 posted:This reminds me: Just look at him in the car ride. He's just looking at Mika while smiling. Mikas harem is powerful, but he only has eyes for a certain bird right now.
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Dec 13, 2016 00:25
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paragon1 posted:This reminds me: I'm still on McGillis not being an evil prick so much as ambitious and driven. Here's hoping he and Orga/Mika end up taking over G-Horn so they can achieve the objective of being so strong that no one will dare challenge them; thus letting them live in peace. Flausei-Go is totally coming in next episode to provide fire support with it's rail guns. Gridlocked fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Dec 13, 2016 |
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Dec 13, 2016 01:05
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My theory now is that Mars previously tried to gain independence and earth didnt like that so they sent murder machines to mars. Mars eventually overthrows Earth and installs Gyallarhorn to keep poo poo in check, except it just turns out the same as before because this is Gundam and the Earth Government is always lovely.
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Dec 13, 2016 02:21
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I'm not convinced the writers even know what McGillis' plan is at this point
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Dec 13, 2016 04:09
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I'm pretty sure the plan is to discredit/destroy Rustal's faction and assume uncontested leadership of the Seven Stars and therefore Gjallahorn as a whole. He's already got 3/7 of what he needs, and has partially succeeded in his goal by forcing Gjallahorn to back off on interfering with the economic blocs.
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Dec 13, 2016 04:48
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muike posted:I'm not convinced the writers even know what McGillis' plan is at this point I'm not sure he has one, to be honest. At least, not A Plan, with caps. He has a goal, like paragon said, and he takes steps towards that goal, but I don't think he has a set in stone "Then Tuesday, I order the pastrami, which will mean that Rustal won't have enough for both himself and Iok, forming a breach in their alliance! As for step NINE hundred..." set of moves. Look at the first season. He didn't even know CGS existed when the season kicked off. By the end, Tekkadan was the center of his gameplan. And every time he could have lost them, he had a backup. Carta and Gaelio were old friends and some of the few honest people in any kind of power. They take down the terrorists, well, it's not what he wanted, but it's still moving people into a better position to get his long term reforms through, and although he loses the people he was rooting for (who he's fanboying over more by the week) he doesn't lose long term investments. Right now, he wants Iok and Rustal out of play, one way or another. But they've been setting the pace, while McGillis has been the defender, the guy with more to lose. So mostly right now, he's been trying to hold onto what he's got and reinforce it, while looking for vulnerabilities in his opponents as they come up. And also he was trying not to restart the apocalypse, probably, because even for a bastard like McGillis, that's a questionable play.
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Dec 13, 2016 08:52
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McGillis being so flexible and opportunistic is part of what makes him so dangerous; he's willing to wait for the right opening and has no qualms about taking advantage of it, and it's hard to counter his plans when they're so nebulous. The best you can do it keep him shut down for as long as possible, because he's smart enough to keep a level of plausible deniability to his actions so it's hard to pin anything on him through official channels. And that's not even counting the political power and back deals he has protecting him.
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Dec 13, 2016 10:08
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I think McGillis just really wants a hug, and he just never noticed how much his childhood friends were willing to oblige him.
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Dec 13, 2016 10:53
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Nah, he knew that if Carta gave him a hug he'd have to join the Outer Earth Orbit Regulatory Joint Fleet.
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Dec 13, 2016 13:08
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Shinjobi posted:I think McGillis just really wants a hug, and he just never noticed how much his childhood friends were willing to oblige him. Actually it's mostly "I'm gonna gently caress over my abusive adoptive father and everything he stood for", by the looks of it.
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Dec 13, 2016 13:15
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This whole time I thought IBO was MGSV, but after these Mobile Armor episodes it turns out it was secretly Peace Walker.
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Dec 13, 2016 22:52
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Actually it's mostly "I'm gonna gently caress over my abusive adoptive father and everything he stood for", by the looks of it. I dunno, I'm getting more of a "My great, great, great, great granddaddy was Agnika Kaieru and you have all hosed up the vision he had." feel from him.
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Dec 14, 2016 02:36
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Raxivace posted:This whole time I thought IBO was MGSV, but after these Mobile Armor episodes it turns out it was secretly Peace Walker. It does seem like a good fit in a lot of ways. Especially with the subtle road to hell. I was considering when the fall of Tekkadan (which kind of has to happen this season by every narrative rule in the books. How hard it falls is variable, but that it falls is pretty much guaranteed.) would really kick off, since we're about halfway through, but thinking about it? We're probably in the middle of it already. It's just not meant to be obvious yet. The highwater mark was episode 4, after the fight with Dawn Horizon. Tekkadan just took on the largest pirate organization in the inner sphere and annihilated them. Their reputation just hit "Who the hell is stupid enough to gently caress with us?", which they could parlay into contracts pretty easy. even aside from the fact it makes attacks less likely. Teiwaz agreed their performance merited getting a hold of a mine, that's legitimate business money on the table. And their contract with Arbrau was headed towards another big milestone. If Orga was content to take things slow and steady? That's it. They'd won. No enemies who'd consider taking them out worth the trouble. Yeah, there were people grumbling at how fast they were expanding, but slowing down takes care of that, and more and more of the organization could be shifted into non-mercenary work as the mine grew. But Orga wouldn't be Orga if he knew how to walk away from the table. He made the deal with the devil, same as always, and now look at what's changed. The Earth branch is gone. Not entirely wiped out, but a significant portion of the forces deployed there were lost in lovely, pointless combat, including multiple mobile suits, and now Tekkadan's pretty much banned from working in the nice neighborhoods. The farm, one of Tekkadan's big purchases, is sold off for safekeeping, and now the mine is wiped out by killbots. (Which seems like it's not going to reflect well on Teiwaz, and considering Naze's promise... mucky territory.) Half of Gjallarhorn gunning for them again, and a deathbot woke up as a consequence. And what have they gained? McGillis in their corner? Fine, but he was helping them before, and we've seen how he deals with his friends if his plan calls for it. Beyond that, they just have a promise to string them along while every alternative they had falls to ash. All while they think they're big winners, because they've killed their enemies when they've seen them, and haven't lost too many of their own in the bargain. I'm not sure where this is going to end, and if the last few episodes have shown anything, it's that the show's going to pull poo poo nobody saw coming, but right now it looks like Tekkadan's only going to realize how much they hosed up when the bottom falls out right under them.
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Dec 14, 2016 04:11
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I hope Orga and Mika rule as kings of mars, killing all mafia and Gjallarhorn stooges everywhere. Cause why the hell not, you know?
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Dec 14, 2016 04:55
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That stuff listed above is why it was good for Takaki to get out while everything was pretty good. Along with the fact that Takaki was not a good fit for the life of a solider. He was far too nice. Hell he even felt a good deal of guilt and regreted killing the guy that caused everything to go wrong.
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Dec 14, 2016 05:48
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Caros posted:I dunno, I'm getting more of a "My great, great, great, great granddaddy was Agnika Kaieru and you have all hosed up the vision he had." feel from him. Actually that makes a considerable amount of sense. A Seven Stars family tracking down his heir and adopting them would probably have at least some political play with the other Families somehow.
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Dec 14, 2016 07:38
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Re: the origin of the mobile armors, I'm betting that they were effectively weapons of mass destruction developed by pre-Calamity War governments akin to the current economic blocs to be used as deterrents against each other Mutually Assured Destruction style and then some sort of conflict caused them to actually be deployed en masse. Cue the governments collapsing under the weight of literal robot dragons trying to wipe out humanity and Agnika Kaeru forming Gjallarhorn to save humanity.
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Dec 14, 2016 07:44
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MonsterEnvy posted:That stuff listed above is why it was good for Takaki to get out while everything was pretty good. Agreed. He's the only guy in Tekkadan who actually listened to Kenny Rogers. Of course, now he's an action movie waiting to happen. I mean, think about it. You got this nice, kinda shy guy at the corporate office. He doesn't stand out much, keeps a picture of his sister at his desk since he's working to pay her way through school. Says he's an orphan, doesn't much like bringing up his past. He's even got an obvious sign that he's been involved with something hosed up that only shows in private or with people he's very, very close to with the whiskers. That's exactly the guy who gets a couple scenes or an hour (depending how artsy the film is) establishing him as a Regular Person With A Sad Past before something goes horribly wrong and it turns out the guy was one of the founding members of the most infamous PMC since The War.
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Dec 14, 2016 07:47
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Kanos posted:Re: the origin of the mobile armors, I'm betting that they were effectively weapons of mass destruction developed by pre-Calamity War governments akin to the current economic blocs to be used as deterrents against each other Mutually Assured Destruction style and then some sort of conflict caused them to actually be deployed en masse. Cue the governments collapsing under the weight of literal robot dragons trying to wipe out humanity and Agnika Kaeru forming Gjallarhorn to save humanity. If that were true, there'd be some kind of parameter for friendly forces and locations. These things had to have all come from a single source or faction to be utterly indescriminate in their genocidal slaughter. If they were "conventional" military superweapons, you can be certain after 300 years Gjallarhorn would have archived IFF signals or faction banners to use.
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Dec 14, 2016 07:55
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Or maybe IFFs are cryptographically impossible to spoof, and the infrastructure to build friendly IFF keys were wiped out by other faction's MAs before Gjallarhorn rose to power. I think the existence of killbots doesn't necessarily change the themes of this show from the sins of man to the sins of AI.
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Dec 14, 2016 08:03
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Phobophilia posted:Or maybe IFFs are cryptographically impossible to spoof, and the infrastructure to build friendly IFF keys were wiped out by other faction's MAs before Gjallarhorn rose to power. I think the existence of killbots doesn't necessarily change the themes of this show from the sins of man to the sins of AI. 350 years of better tech, owned by the people with the only real records lasting all the back to the Calamity War, are gonna crush any kind of encryption that old by brute force. If it were a military weapon that several factions use, it wouldn't bother playing possum and then go for a random civilian population, it'd assess threats and go for Gjallarhorn bases.
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Dec 14, 2016 08:11
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I just assumed that tech had plateaued, AI-driven research has been banned, no new breakthroughs in materials or infotech. And there has been no incentive to brute force crack MA IFFs. I mean, the Calamity war is over, the MAs are all dead.
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Dec 14, 2016 08:33
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Phobophilia posted:I just assumed that tech had plateaued, AI-driven research has been banned, no new breakthroughs in materials or infotech. And there has been no incentive to brute force crack MA IFFs. I mean, the Calamity war is over, the MAs are all dead. A major plot point in season 1 was it turning out Gjallarhorn were happliy researching and using technology considered banned. It's how we got Graze Ein.
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Dec 14, 2016 08:37
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Neddy Seagoon posted:A major plot point in season 1 was it turning out Gjallarhorn were happliy researching and using technology considered banned. It's how we got Graze Ein. Which got owned by a 350 year old suit.
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Dec 14, 2016 09:08
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Neddy Seagoon posted:If that were true, there'd be some kind of parameter for friendly forces and locations. These things had to have all come from a single source or faction to be utterly indiscriminate in their genocidal slaughter. If they were "conventional" military superweapons, you can be certain after 300 years Gjallarhorn would have archived IFF signals or faction banners to use. Does a doomsday device need an off switch? If the retaliating party makes a precommitment to perpetually depopulate a given area, potential aggressors will know that if they attack, regardless of winning or losing, there would be no way to negotiate deactivation afterward.
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Dec 14, 2016 09:12
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I sort of doubt that we are looking at a Doomsday device working as intended. After all humans stopped building autonomous robots.
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Dec 14, 2016 09:35
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Neddy Seagoon posted:If that were true, there'd be some kind of parameter for friendly forces and locations. These things had to have all come from a single source or faction to be utterly indescriminate in their genocidal slaughter. If they were "conventional" military superweapons, you can be certain after 300 years Gjallarhorn would have archived IFF signals or faction banners to use. As others have alluded to, I'm thinking more of a mutually assured destruction second strike thing; if you gently caress us up, we'll turn on our mobile armors and they'll loving kill all of you. There's absolutely no other situation where a device programmed to literally hunt down and slaughter all humans indiscriminately would ever be deployed. A device like that wouldn't need an off switch and in fact would be actively hampered in its purpose by such an off switch.
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Dec 14, 2016 10:42
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Kanos posted:As others have alluded to, I'm thinking more of a mutually assured destruction second strike thing; if you gently caress us up, we'll turn on our mobile armors and they'll loving kill all of you. There's absolutely no other situation where a device programmed to literally hunt down and slaughter all humans indiscriminately would ever be deployed. A device like that wouldn't need an off switch and in fact would be actively hampered in its purpose by such an off switch. Mr. Itsuka, it is not only possible, it is essential. That is the whole idea of this machine, you know. Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack. And so, because of the automated and irrevocable decision-making process which rules out human meddling, the Mobile Armor is terrifying and simple to understand... and completely credible and convincing.
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Dec 14, 2016 10:46
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Oh, hey, speaking of, the Hashmal's manual just came out, and it's got a bunch of relevant info in it. Long story short, Treize Khushrenada was right.
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Dec 14, 2016 10:49
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Darth Walrus posted:Oh, hey, speaking of, the Hashmal's manual just came out, and it's got a bunch of relevant info in it. I'm not a Wing guy, what did he say? That kit looks pretty cool, hopefully getting it with the 1/100 Vidar won't carry a ridiculous shipping charge.
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Dec 14, 2016 12:07
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I just got caught up with the last three episodes, and I have to say I approve of the sudden introduction of Metal Gear RAY loving poo poo up.
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Dec 14, 2016 12:21
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Darth Walrus posted:Oh, hey, speaking of, the Hashmal's manual just came out, and it's got a bunch of relevant info in it. So what they built AI not-kill bots that then decided that kill botting was the superior choice? From that article it sounds it was a case of AI going SkyNet.
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Dec 14, 2016 14:18
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It might be more like people got so obsessed with increasingly innovative automation that it naturally escalated into, "hey, why not have AI fight our wars for us? It'll reduce the loss of human life and surely nothing will go wrong  " and didn't stop to think just because they could, doesn't mean they should.And if everything is automated, that's a lot of jobs not going to poorer people and it's easy to see overly automated countries having a lot of poverty and huge class gaps. The manual mentioned that automation was a rich people thing. It'd be interesting if they went the angle of Agnika Kaieru and the Seven Star founders being members of a lower class who came together to clean up the aristocracy's hosed up MAs and tried to set up a system where the rich couldn't make the same mistake, only for their descendants to rebuilt the aristocracy around themselves.
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Dec 14, 2016 16:22
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