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Baudolino posted:The fur industry employs people and generates tax income in a era when the Norwegian economy is struggling. We have to keep it even if it is barbaric. Considering that the state is subsidizing the industry with 40 million kroner each year I'm not so sure it would be bad for the economy to get rid off the industry.
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Dec 12, 2016 08:12
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Cardiac posted:Malmö was originally built on a swamp that was drained. Apparently drain the swamp didn't work.
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Dec 12, 2016 12:46
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I think it's very cute to travel around the Swedish countryside and immediately be able to identify which cities burned down in the 19-20th century just by how the city center's look. It's this weird collective part of our history that is just never talked about.
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Dec 12, 2016 13:00
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Alhazred posted:Considering that the state is subsidizing the industry with 40 million kroner each year I'm not so sure it would be bad for the economy to get rid off the industry.
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Dec 12, 2016 16:07
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MiddleOne posted:No that's just cats. This is the truth. My neighbors cat has decided to adopt me and has decided that clawing my neck and back is an appropriate way of thanking me for petting it. That and tearing up my favorite shirt.
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Dec 12, 2016 16:31
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Would be more efficient to just pay people directly to torture cute animals. It's basically what we are doing now.
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Dec 12, 2016 17:16
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VI blir faen meg ikke kvitt ham: http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/aina-stenersen-trekker-seg-vil-ikke-kjempe-mot-carl-i-hagen-likevel/66027029
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Dec 12, 2016 19:13
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Alhazred posted:It's basically what we are doing now.
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Dec 12, 2016 19:15
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Are you sure? It's not paying companies to employ people to torture animals, where the company pockets the majority of the subsidy?
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Dec 12, 2016 20:47
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Biomute posted:I'd be all for Norwegian farmers blowing me away with their technological know-how. I'm not worried by GMO's or whatever if they can produce a superior product, but I don't want to pay a premum without anything in return, and while our milk farmers talk a good game about how they treat their cows and stuff I'm not that convinced considering other things our farmers will do, nor do I care enough to make it my primary concern. It's funny you should mention GMOs, because the production and importation for resale of products with GMO in the supply chain is all but banned in Norway. That limits our selection a lot right there, and if you want variety I think it makes more sense to try to ease specific regulation like that (food safety regulation in general is pretty strict, and the barriers to entry in retail are high, so we have only a few, big actors who extract a lot of value) than to pile scorn on the farmers. It's not exactly a profession people are dying to get into, and there are good reasons for that.
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Dec 13, 2016 01:46
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Alhazred posted:If the government openly said that the they would pay for the torture of cute animals, "companies that employ people to torture animals, where the company pockets the majority of the subsidy" is exactly what would happen.
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Dec 13, 2016 07:39
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MiddleOne posted:I think it's very cute to travel around the Swedish countryside and immediately be able to identify which cities burned down in the 19-20th century just by how the city center's look. It's this weird collective part of our history that is just never talked about. Well, you do also have a bunch of old city centres that got bulldozed in the 50-60s in the name of progress and modernisation. I think Katrineholm is one of those.
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Dec 13, 2016 09:12
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Cardiac posted:Well, you do also have a bunch of old city centres that got bulldozed in the 50-60s in the name of progress and modernisation. If you think Stockholm didn't desperately need to unfuck its city center in the 60s you're out of your mind.
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Dec 13, 2016 10:45
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Groda posted:If you think Stockholm didn't desperately need to unfuck its city center in the 60s you're out of your mind. And how is that working out? I hear about the traffic in Stockholm and feel relief for not commuting there. The NIMBY is strong there. As for hosed up city centres, I just came back from London and that is just a mess. You would think the nazis bombing the poo poo out of London in WWII would have lead to a redesign, but no. It is not like Paris where boulevards were designed in order to make barricades impossible and therefore cavalry shocks possible.
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Dec 13, 2016 11:42
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"Let's build on a set of small islands next to a steep cliff!" is a great idea for a medieval architect designing a small, fortified capital. It's a horrible, horrible idea for a modern city with more than a million inhabitants.
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Dec 13, 2016 13:09
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Sounds like we're in agreement, sending nukes to stockholm in 3,2,1...
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Dec 13, 2016 13:15
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lilljonas posted:"Let's build on a set of small islands next to a steep cliff!" is a great idea for a medieval architect designing a small, fortified capital. It's a horrible, horrible idea for a modern city with more than a million inhabitants. I'm not 100 percent sure, but wasn't Stockholm originally built as a kind of Viking trade town, in the sense that there were a bunch of poles (Stock) set around the port entry waterways to make it as nonviable as possible for boats to invade it without proper maps?
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Dec 13, 2016 15:14
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evilmiera posted:I'm not 100 percent sure, but wasn't Stockholm originally built as a kind of Viking trade town, in the sense that there were a bunch of poles (Stock) set around the port entry waterways to make it as nonviable as possible for boats to invade it without proper maps? Isn't that Birka, which is not that close to Stockholm? If I recall my history Stockholm was relatively lately settled in comparison to other settlements like Uppsala, Lund and then mainly for controlling the sea ways to Malaren. Kalmar for example was a very important city around Knut the great (who managed to be king 5 times)
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Dec 13, 2016 15:26
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Seeing the dear jarl's face everywhere in Stockholm makes me think it's 13th century. It is on par with new Uppsala (maybe not old)? I'm enjoying not googling this.
Svartvit fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Dec 13, 2016 |
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Dec 13, 2016 15:42
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"Killgissning"
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Dec 13, 2016 15:45
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Cardiac posted:Isn't that Birka, which is not that close to Stockholm? Probably. I haven't read Swedish history in years. Edit: vvv I remember driving to Stockholm a few years back. It was bad, and I got really stressed out after spending most of my time driving through smaller communities... but it was nothing compared to driving home again. In the dark. During rush hour. Or at least what I perceived to be. evilmiera fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Dec 13, 2016 |
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Dec 13, 2016 15:46
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Cardiac posted:And how is that working out? I hear about the traffic in Stockholm and feel relief for not commuting there. Anyone insane enough to drive past the first subway station on their way in deserves whatever suffering they are in for by the time they reach Slussen.
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Dec 13, 2016 15:47
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Cardiac posted:Isn't that Birka, which is not that close to Stockholm?
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Dec 13, 2016 16:37
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cuckholm..
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Dec 13, 2016 16:40
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I had a small assignment regarding the founding of Stockholm in my History-class, the city Stockholm was first mentioned in some letter from 1252 or something, but it was founded before that. As to when, I'm not sure we know. I've also heard of the "stock" theory for what it's worth.
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Dec 13, 2016 16:40
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Svartvit posted:Seeing the dear jarl's face everywhere in Stockholm makes me think it's 13th century. It is on par with new Uppsala (maybe not old)? I'm enjoying not googling this.
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Dec 13, 2016 17:06
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cinci zoo sniper posted:What's that about Uppsala? The name Uppsala was moved from old Uppsala to a newer town called Eastern Aros. The old one is really old and apparently used to be a King's seat. There's a museum there now. IIRC there's also an old Gothenburg in what is now called Lödöse. There's a museum there too.
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Dec 13, 2016 20:10
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I'm ashamed that virtue signaling, or 'godhetsignalering' as it is in Swedish, has seriously become an actual rhetorical tool in media in the last month.
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Dec 13, 2016 20:14
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There is also an old Lund in todays Uppåkra that is supposedly almost 2k years old and at least 8 times the size of Birka, and larger than Hedeby was, making it the largest pre-medieval settlement in Scandinavia iirc. It's almost unheard of for some reason.
Fox Cunning fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Dec 13, 2016 |
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Dec 13, 2016 21:04
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MiddleOne posted:I'm ashamed that virtue signaling, or 'godhetsignalering' as it is in Swedish, has seriously become an actual rhetorical tool in media in the last month. 
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Dec 13, 2016 23:23
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Svartvit posted:The name Uppsala was moved from old Uppsala to a newer town called Eastern Aros. The old one is really old and apparently used to be a King's seat. There's a museum there now. No, Lödöse was a separate town to Gothenburg, it was the most western town of Sweden and was quite old. However, it was deemed too far upstream of the river to be safe from Danish control of the river inlet which was the only way to avoid Danish taxes, on top of this it was badly placed for defense and was burned down by the Danes a few times, so the king forcefully evacuated most people and moved them downstream to what is now known as "Gamlestan" which is significantly to the east and further upstream of the current city center. This was also deemed to be a lovely location, most likely because it was torched by the Danes several times. Thus it was yet again moved further downstream to some steep rocks in the swamp overlooking the river inlet, this is where the current city center is located. Finally they had found a more defensible position! That did little to discourage the Danes though, as they kept on burning all that poo poo down for centuries to come!
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Dec 14, 2016 00:39
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Zudgemud posted:No, Lödöse was a separate town to Gothenburg, it was the most western town of Sweden and was quite old. However, it was deemed too far upstream of the river to be safe from Danish control of the river inlet which was the only way to avoid Danish taxes, on top of this it was badly placed for defense and was burned down by the Danes a few times, so the king forcefully evacuated most people and moved them downstream to what is now known as "Gamlestan" which is significantly to the east and further upstream of the current city center. This was also deemed to be a lovely location, most likely because it was torched by the Danes several times. Thus it was yet again moved further downstream to some steep rocks in the swamp overlooking the river inlet, this is where the current city center is located. Finally they had found a more defensible position! That did little to discourage the Danes though, as they kept on burning all that poo poo down for centuries to come! Life lesson, gently caress the danes The Last Kingdom is also a good exploration of this complex theme.
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Dec 14, 2016 00:48
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MiddleOne posted:I'm ashamed that virtue signaling, or 'godhetsignalering' as it is in Swedish, has seriously become an actual rhetorical tool in media in the last month. Just last month?
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Dec 14, 2016 07:10
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Cardiac posted:Just last month? I might just not read enough evening papers but it's been on 'krackelerar' levels in the last week.
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Dec 14, 2016 07:40
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So nice to see Denmark showing the path toward a brave new Nordic welfare state.  http://www.expressen.se/kvallsposten/sjuka-anita-straffas--for-att-hon-orkat-baka/
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Dec 14, 2016 10:51
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Nenonen posted:So nice to see Denmark showing the path toward a brave new Nordic welfare state. Jag skulle säga att jag var förvånad men de nya arbetsförmåga-bedömningarna som har blivit standard i socialtjänsten och försäkringskassan appliceras minst like godtyckligt här i Sverige. Hela idén med den moderna formen av behovsprövad välfärd där tjänstemän ska agera domare och subjektivt tolka förmåga är ett gissel som lämnar allt för mycket godtycklighet till besluten. Stockholm Stad till exempel har raffinerat godtyckligheten i deras regler till en konstform där vem som helst kan bli vänd bort av socialtjänsten för att de brutit någon oskriven ide om vad som är okej för bidragstagare att syssla med. Det här är inte ens ett unikt skandinaviskt problem. EU har jobbat stenhårt det senaste årtiondet genom ett antal mjukreform mekanismer för att långsamt standardisera hur medlemsstaternas byråkratier pratar om, arbetar med och bedömer arbetslöshet till något som i princip bara existerar för att neka åtkomst till de sociala skyddsnäten. EDIT: English version, just watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahWgxw9E_h4 MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 11:30 on Dec 14, 2016 |
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Dec 14, 2016 11:26
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Nenonen posted:So nice to see Denmark showing the path toward a brave new Nordic welfare state. However, now that we have Liberal Alliance in government, whose leader (Anders Samuelsen) has Ayn Rand as his favourite author, poo poo might be about to go down in the name of COMPETITIVENESS™
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Dec 14, 2016 11:34
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Nenonen posted:So nice to see Denmark showing the path toward a brave new Nordic welfare state. I'm seeing odd differences in the reports from Expressen vs. the Danish media I usually visit. Espressen posted:Ålborgs kommun har efter kritikstormen uttalat sig – och de ser inga problem i att deras handledare hämtar information om de anställda via sociala medier. Kommunen menar att de, ifall någon misstanke uppstår, kan ringa och reda ut hur det verkligen står till. Berlingske Tidende posted:I Aalborg Kommune beklager jobcenterchef, Jesper Dahlgaard, forløbet.
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Dec 14, 2016 11:47
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Foulbrood posted:As is common with all Scandinavians, we're always harping on about the death of the welfare state. In Sweden we have Annie Lööf, leader of Centerpartiet (the old Farmer's league which these days has morphed into a weird business-first party with a mix of rural centrists and inner city libertarians) who idolises Thatcher and Rand. Reassuring to know that if the right-wing alliance wins back power in the next election, the party leaders will include a Randian, a Swedish neo-moralist Sarah Palin, and a woman behind the Moderate's new daring tactic of openly courting Swedish Democrat voters. Oh, and someone from the Liberals I assume.
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Dec 14, 2016 12:54
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The liberals have been sending out signals that Jan Björklund is not comfortable with the current leadership of the other Alliance parties for the better part of the last year so there's that at least.
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Dec 14, 2016 13:01
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