Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

Haha, the bastard doesn't realize that the centralizing of jobs is exactly the problem. If you put all the jobs in one place without the residential support structure to provide employees then both fail.

# ? Dec 13, 2016 21:50

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# ? May 28, 2024 11:12

MickeyFinn: May 8, 2007; Biggie Smalls and Junior Mafia some mark ass bitches

leftist heap posted:

Guys, actually it was the supply side all along:

http://www.financialpost.com/m/wp/p...ent-being-built

You don't hate *jobs* do you?

What if I want prices to go down? That does make things more affordable.

# ? Dec 13, 2016 23:26

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

MickeyFinn posted:

What if I want prices to go down? That does make things more affordable.

You don't understand how the market works.
So you can't afford a house because they're so expensive? Wrong, you choose not to invest in a house because you're not sufficiently enticed or you can't get into enough debt to afford it. The answer is to make sure prices keep going up, practically have the government guarantee minimum price gains. The faster prices go up, the more confidence in the market there will be which will allow people to make the good choice to buy a home. The absolute worst thing we could do to try help people gain the pride of ownership is anything that doesn't inflate prices. If prices go down our noble developers won't build new houses and then no one will be able to buy anything.

Keep prices up, let the debt flow, keep our boys building.

Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Dec 13, 2016

# ? Dec 13, 2016 23:49

ductonius: Apr 9, 2007; I heard there's a cream for that...

ExecuDork posted:

And the worst air pollution of any city in Canada! Putting major train yards plus mills plus power generation in the bottom of a steep-sided bowl valley subject to inversions all year long means you get just a hint, the merest taste, of Beijing's soup.

In Prince George, every kid has a friend with asthma. If not, they're the friend with asthma.

# ? Dec 14, 2016 00:20

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

MickeyFinn posted:

What if I want prices to go down? That does make things more affordable.

Why do you hate equity?

# ? Dec 14, 2016 00:22

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

If house prices in the GTA get cut in half, I'll pour one out for my ~~~lost equity~~~ and then join the parade. The city would be so much healthier for it.

# ? Dec 14, 2016 00:32

the talent deficit: Dec 20, 2003; self-deprecation is a very british trait, and problems can arise when the british attempt to do so with a foreign culture

Subjunctive posted:

If house prices in the GTA get cut in half, I'll pour one out for my ~~~lost equity~~~ and then join the parade. The city would be so much healthier for it.

you should move to vancouver in, uhhh, september 2017ish

# ? Dec 14, 2016 00:56

Eighty: Jun 15, 2005

the talent deficit posted:

you should move to vancouver in, uhhh, september 2017ish

Is this when the crash is scheduled? Asking for a friend.

# ? Dec 14, 2016 01:18

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

the talent deficit posted:

you should move to vancouver

I thought we were friends

# ? Dec 14, 2016 01:25

Reince Penis: Nov 15, 2007; by R. Guyovich

Subjunctive posted:

If house prices in the GTA get cut in half, I'll pour one out for my ~~~lost equity~~~ and then join the parade. The city would be so much healthier for it.

Same.

But it ain't happening anywhere a subway runs. :toxx:

# ? Dec 14, 2016 01:35

dev286: Nov 30, 2006; Let it be all the best.

PK loving SUBBAN posted:

Same.

But it ain't happening anywhere a subway runs.

Except maybe Line 2 East of Victoria Park...

# ? Dec 14, 2016 05:18

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

Eighty posted:

Is this when the crash is scheduled? Asking for a friend.

There was a Vancouver housing graph posted a while ago that had the trough about three years after each peak. So maybe Sept 2019..?

# ? Dec 14, 2016 05:36

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/canadas-cooling-housing-market-will-soon-drag-the-economy-down-watchdog-warns

quote:

Canada�s cooling housing market will soon start dragging the economy down, watchdog warns

Canada�s housing sector will soon become a drag on growth as the number of new homes decline, according to the country�s budget watchdog.

The independent Parliamentary Budget Officer forecast in a report Tuesday that residential investment will subtract from economic growth from 2018 to 2020.

Policy makers have been introducing measures in recent months to slow growth in the country�s two hottest markets, Toronto and Vancouver, with the province of British Columbia imposing a tax on foreign buyers in the latter. Real-estate activity in the two cities is diverging as a result. Average prices around Toronto rose 23 per cent in November from a year earlier, while sales also soared. Sales in Vancouver, meanwhile, have declined steadily, falling 37 per cent last month compared to the prior year.

Housing has buoyed Canadian GDP growth in recent years. The budget office projected the sector would provide modest boosts to growth through 2017 before turning negative. In 2018, the watchdog expects residential investment to subtract 0.2 percentage points from GDP growth, followed by 0.4 percentage points in 2019 and 0.1 per cent in 2020.

The Bank of Canada has forecast housing to subtract 0.2 percentage points from growth in 2017, but add 0.1 percentage points in 2018.

During Canada�s housing boom, new supply outstripped new demand for a decade through 2011. However, from 2012 to 2015, demand exceeded supply, the budget officer forecast.

New housing completion is set to peak in 2017 at 198,900 units before declining to an average of around 170,900 units from 2019 to 2021, according to the budget officer.

so the solution is obviously build more to keep the RE industry afloat also more supply!

# ? Dec 14, 2016 05:52

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

quote:

Real estate developers slammed B.C. over surprise foreign-buyer tax

Hours after B.C. announced its tax on foreign buyers this past summer, prominent developers e-mailed Premier Christy Clark and her government saying the policy amounted to a betrayal of Metro Vancouver�s international citizens and could hurt a market already showing signs of cooling.

Correspondence obtained through a Globe and Mail Freedom of Information request also shows the government received hundreds of e-mails from the public after the July 25 announcement. Many people praised the move and urged politicians to do more to limit foreign speculation across British Columbia, while others pleaded for Victoria to exempt existing deals that were caught up in the tax.

Neil Chrystal, president of leading real estate developer Polygon Homes, e-mailed the finance minister�s chief of staff criticizing the government for the decision.

�While I was at first appreciative of the consultation meeting we had last week I feel that our industry has been somewhat blind-sided by the announcement of this new tax, given how extreme it is,� Mr. Chrystal wrote. �I actually find it hard to believe that something so drastic wasn�t discussed further with our industry and that our meeting was a bit of a waste of time, given that the policy was likely already determined.�

The government has said most cabinet members were kept in the dark as a handful of bureaucrats in the Ministry of Finance worked feverishly to craft the rules of the tax. Bob Rennie, the B.C. Liberal Party�s chief fundraiser and the local real estate industry�s best-known marketer, said he had no advance knowledge of the tax, but that he anticipated the government would enact such a policy to quiet public outrage as home ownership became more unaffordable.

In his e-mail, Mr. Chrystal said it was outrageous that the new policy would not exempt deals begun before the tax was announced but were not scheduled to close until after it went into effect.

�The tax of 15 per cent is excessive and a sure fire way to halt sales to foreign buyers in a market that was already [showing] signs of fatigue,� he wrote, which recent government data have since confirmed.

In the seven weeks leading up to the start of the tax, foreign buyers accounted for 13.2 per cent of Metro Vancouver�s total sales, but these buyers made up just 3 per cent across that region in October, according to the B.C. government�s data based on land title registrations. Over that period, the average price of single-family detached homes began to drop in Metro Vancouver from the peak last January at $1.83-million.

Experts cannot say whether this downturn in foreign owners will remain a long-term trend, but immediately after the Premier announced the tax on the morning of July 25, industry insiders were warning it could badly hurt one of the province�s most important economic drivers.

John Stovell, chair of the Urban Development Institute, who was copied on Mr. Chrystal�s e-mail, responded to the government, saying that his trade association for real estate developers agreed with Mr. Chrystal�s arguments.

�This is ill advised in the extreme and your government�s failure to exempt pre-sales is a betrayal to our non residents willing to participate in good faith in our economy in what has been both � legal and arguably encouraged through other government policy,� Mr. Stovell wrote.

A month before the tax was announced, Anne McMullin, president and CEO of UDI, e-mailed the Premier warning that any taxes aimed at curbing demand would not make Metro Vancouver more affordable without the stimulation of more supply. And, she added, increasing taxes might severely undermine the value of people�s homes �perhaps even destabilizing our industry, which represents 25 per cent of British Columbia�s economy,� she wrote.

A day after the tax was announced, she wrote again expressing the UDI�s disappointment with the policy and strongly urged the Premier to allow pre-sale contracts in place as of Aug. 2 to be exempted from paying the levy.

Meanwhile, many members of the public heaped praise on the government for moving ahead with the tax and urged them to go further.

�Nice start on reducing foreign ownership of B.C. residential property � but more is needed!� one respondent wrote, adding that a 500-per-cent tax on any vacant property would be a good next step.

Others wrote angry e-mails that asked the Premier to step in and allow deals involving foreign buyers still pending to be exempted from the levy.

A person living outside the Lower Mainland asked the government to tackle the growing unaffordability of housing in their community.

�Vancouver is a lost cause. It has been sold out to the highest bidders,� the person wrote. �The Real Estate Housing CRISIS is THE most important issue of all and my vote at the upcoming elections will be focused on candidates and parties who present the most effective actions to address this problem.�

That's quite a bit of outrage coming from a group that insisted for so long that foreign investment was just a tiny, insignificant part of the market.

# ? Dec 14, 2016 06:04

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

lmao

"Vancouver's international citizens" is one *hell* of a euphemism.

# ? Dec 14, 2016 07:02

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

leftist heap posted:

lmao

"Vancouver's international citizens" is one *hell* of a euphemism.

"citizens" seems like maybe the wrong word.

# ? Dec 14, 2016 12:05

SpannerX: Apr 26, 2010; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.; Fun Shoe

Subjunctive posted:

"citizens" seems like maybe the wrong word.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

# ? Dec 14, 2016 14:19

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

Can someone remind me why non-citizens and foreign corporations should be able to own property in the first place?

# ? Dec 14, 2016 15:13

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

why shouldn't they? Unless you're saying 'ban all foreign capital'

# ? Dec 14, 2016 15:17

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

eXXon posted:

Can someone remind me why non-citizens and foreign corporations should be able to own property in the first place?

where exactly is it that recent immigrants are supposed to live

# ? Dec 14, 2016 15:21

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

namaste faggots posted:

why shouldn't they? Unless you're saying 'ban all foreign capital'

What useful purpose does foreign investment in property serve? Corporations can set up Canadian subsidiaries if they care, so forget that part of the question.

Cease to Hope posted:

where exactly is it that recent immigrants are supposed to live

Is this a serious question? Change "non-citizen" to "non-permanent resident" if you care.

# ? Dec 14, 2016 15:27

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

Why are people legally allowed to do things that do not benefit and may even mildly inconvenience me? I don't understand this at all

# ? Dec 14, 2016 15:30

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

eXXon posted:

What useful purpose does foreign investment in property serve? Corporations can set up Canadian subsidiaries if they care, so forget that part of the question.

Is this a serious question? Change "non-citizen" to "non-permanent resident" if you care.

you think that foreign money just buys property and the proceeds just evaporate into your hopes and dreams for a stanley cup

# ? Dec 14, 2016 15:33

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

eXXon posted:

What useful purpose does foreign investment in property serve? Corporations can set up Canadian subsidiaries if they care, so forget that part of the question.

Is this a serious question? Change "non-citizen" to "non-permanent resident" if you care.

You gonna ban foreign ownership of corporations too?

# ? Dec 14, 2016 15:38

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Postess with the Mostest posted:

You gonna ban foreign ownership of corporations too?

exxon literally woke up and got wrecked on a bowl and is now just expanding his mind

# ? Dec 14, 2016 15:41

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

eXXon posted:

Is this a serious question? Change "non-citizen" to "non-permanent resident" if you care.

only as far as your proposal is worth taking seriously, so i guess no

# ? Dec 14, 2016 15:48

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

GUYS I"M HIGH AF WHAT IS THIS "PROPERTY" YOU ALL SPEAK OF

# ? Dec 14, 2016 15:59

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

...hey, man, you can't just like, "own" property....

# ? Dec 14, 2016 16:03

Mameluke: Aug 2, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

Cease to Hope posted:

where exactly is it that recent immigrants are supposed to live

Renting is absolutely unconscionable to any Real Canadian, how can we deny others basic human rights like a mortgage?

# ? Dec 14, 2016 16:03

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Mameluke posted:

Renting is absolutely unconscionable to any Real Canadian, how can we deny others basic human rights like a mortgage?

only Dalits rent just fyi

# ? Dec 14, 2016 16:04

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

On the property side at least he has a valid point. Go try buying a house in China motherfuckers. :smuggo:

# ? Dec 14, 2016 16:11

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

eXXon posted:

Can someone remind me why non-citizens and foreign corporations should be able to own property in the first place?

Gonna blow your mind, non-citizens and foreign corporations (and canadians) already don't own land in Canada.

quote:

All physical land in Canada is the property of the Crown, Queen Elisabeth 11. There is no provision in the Canada Act, or in the Constitution Act 1982 which amends it, for any Canadian to own any physical land in Canada. All that Canadians may hold, in conformity with medieval and feudal law, is �an interest in an estate in land in fee simple�. Land defined as �Crown land� in Canada, and administered by the Federal Government and the Provinces, is merely land not �dedicated� or assigned in freehold tenure. Freehold is tenure, not ownership. Freehold land is �held� not �owned�.

# ? Dec 14, 2016 16:14

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Ya that's who we should look to for policy ideas: China!

# ? Dec 14, 2016 16:15

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

PT6A posted:

Ya that's who we should look to for policy ideas: China!

Yeah man, we definitely shouldn't have built highways either. That scoundrel Hitler popularized them after all.

:fuckoff:

# ? Dec 14, 2016 16:18

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

Rime posted:

On the property side at least he has a valid point. Go try buying a house in China motherfuckers.

# ? Dec 14, 2016 16:20

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Hey if you guys are saying we should ban the flow of foreign capital into Canada so you can all afford housing

# ? Dec 14, 2016 16:21

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

It's all that foreign capital distorting the used-van market, so Rime cannot afford to live out his dream of camping in a van for the rest of his life.

# ? Dec 14, 2016 16:23

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

Postess with the Mostest posted:

Gonna blow your mind, non-citizens and foreign corporations (and canadians) already don't own land in Canada.

Not to blow your mind here but this is how land ownership works in almost every nation on the planet.

# ? Dec 14, 2016 16:26

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

MiddleOne posted:

Not to blow your mind here but this is how land ownership works in almost every nation on the planet.

WHoa

# ? Dec 14, 2016 16:28

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# ? May 28, 2024 11:12

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

Rime posted:

On the property side at least he has a valid point. Go try buying a house in China motherfuckers.

The article posted a few pages ago in this very thread about the Vancouver guy who is "designing" housing developments in China selling his apartment in Shanghai for 5 times what he paid for it.

Try buying a Dodge Caravan in Japan motherfuckers

# ? Dec 14, 2016 16:28

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