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cheetah7071 posted:If there aren't going to be any races which prefer specific weapons, then just merge all the weaponskills together one thing you can use weapon skills for is to push species to use weapons which they might not otherwise bother with; e.g. halflings' axe options are not very good, so why not give them good apts so that there's a reason to sometimes use em? sort of the opposite of the traditional philosophy for weapon skills, but potentially more interesting. however, the actual answer to your question is that it's good to make characters decide what weapons they're going to use and invest in them, just like spell schools.
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Dec 14, 2016 06:07
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Centaurs are basically just minotaurs that run fast and kobold is a spriggan without an eating disorder, please remove
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Dec 14, 2016 06:10
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PleasingFungus posted:one thing you can use weapon skills for is to push species to use weapons which they might not otherwise bother with; e.g. halflings' axe options are not very good, so why not give them good apts so that there's a reason to sometimes use em? In the few minutes since I made that post I actually thought about it a bit and I'm now actually moderately in support of merging weaponskills (and giving some races an innate bonus to certain weapons? Like merfolk having an innate mut "you deal somewhat more damage with polearms"). The difference I see between weaponskills and spellskills is that training a new branch of magic doesn't negate my old training. If I have fireball castable, and train up freezing cloud, I can still cast both (and likely will)--the investment in fire was still meaningful. If I train up to 14 LB for a scimitar, then switch to M&F because I find a bitching randart, that 14 LB is essentially wasted now. The decision of whether switching is worth it may be interesting, but it certainly isn't fun--either I feel bad for "wasting" a bunch of experience, or I feel bad for not being able to use the cool thing I found on the ground. If for some reason it would really be terrible for people to regularly switch weapon types, have it drain you when you switch them (possibly only when you switch between melee types so you can still switch freely between melee and ranged?), flavored as you needing some time to get used to your new weapon. I assume melee and ranged would remain different skills under this system. I have no idea what would happen to throwing/UC. In conclusion, bring back high elves, mountain dwarves, and coastal crabs
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Dec 14, 2016 06:17
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Obfuscation posted:Centaurs are basically just minotaurs that run fast and kobold is a spriggan without an eating disorder, please remove Got those somewhat wrong: the centaurs are the worse spriggans (and so are felids, but I like felids better than spriggans because I despise spriggans), and kobolds are shittier trolls.
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Dec 14, 2016 06:22
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felid is the only race i tried a handful of times and then decided to never ever come back to again. very unique!
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Dec 14, 2016 06:31
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rchandra posted:Terrible news, everybody! Internet Kraken posted:Hey can we put High Elves back in and remove Tengus instead because they are loving awful by comparison. Internet Kraken posted:Or better yet, remove neither. Edit: poo poo, I could have been happy at leaving maces at +1. Ogres are a hard enough start with no armor and bad dodging without taking away the ability to get a great club up and going so you can use offense as a defense. World Famous W fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Dec 14, 2016 |
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Dec 14, 2016 06:32
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Do people actually change weapons based on randarts past Lair? Even with crosstraining, the investment to get any good 2H weapon to mindelay is huge. It's a big sacrifice to your other skills to switch weapons. I just make do with what I find. I think racial weapon affinities are fun because they encourage a specific playstyle, but they don't mandate it. Maybe you want polearms on your HO of Yred, even though axes are less investment. If you want to play a stealthy or hybrid archer, your options are just shittier with High Elves gone. Tengu lose -2 Bows, -4 Charms, -3 Hexes, etc.
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Dec 14, 2016 06:47
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Why the gently caress are there boggarts in my LairWorld Famous W posted:Tengus are awesome and I will fight you. Tengus are certainly unique but I'd rather them be removed than HE simply because elves are more fun for me to play. Tengus feel a lot less flexible when it comes to the kind of stuff I want to do. Their apts are so different there's no reason for either to be removed though. brainwrinkle posted:Do people actually change weapons based on randarts past Lair? Even with crosstraining, the investment to get any good 2H weapon to mindelay is huge. It's a big sacrifice to your other skills to switch weapons. I just make do with what I find. I've done it before if I found an exceptionally good weapon. Cross-training makes it a lot easier to do this. Also, the amount of exp to raise a skill the first 10 levels is WAY less than to go from 10 to 20, and even more past that. Swapping at that point will make things more difficult in the short term, but not matter much in the long run. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Dec 14, 2016 |
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Dec 14, 2016 06:47
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Deep Elves only works as a name if they have something to compare to, so I suggest we make Shallow Elves, who are only able to use the most popular weapons and only cast spells if they see another unique casting that spell (because then they know it's cool)
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Dec 14, 2016 06:48
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tote up a bags posted:Deep Elves only works as a name if they have something to compare to, so I suggest we make Shallow Elves, who are only able to use the most popular weapons and only cast spells if they see another unique casting that spell (because then they know it's cool) we already have deep dwarves, tho. they're pals
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Dec 14, 2016 06:49
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What's a deep dwarf? I've never seen one in the dungeon. I saw a strange short little man named Jorgrun but he didn't appear to be any race you could play as.
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Dec 14, 2016 06:51
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PleasingFungus posted:we already have deep dwarves, tho. they're pals FR: Rename Tengu to Deep Tengu, then 'deep' can mean 'survived the dev team'
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Dec 14, 2016 06:52
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you'll look awful silly when i... remove deep dwarves 'whisper farewell as you leave, Shadow Gimli'
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Dec 14, 2016 06:54
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Dark Gimli. Nega-Gimli
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Dec 14, 2016 06:55
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Please make reverse nagas who can use boots but can't read scrolls because they can't speak
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Dec 14, 2016 06:59
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Hey with High Elves gone and only Deep Elves left, you can change the Elven Halls into the Deep Pits and fill it with the Dwarf enemies as well.
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Dec 14, 2016 07:03
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PleasingFungus posted:one thing you can use weapon skills for is to push species to use weapons which they might not otherwise bother with; e.g. halflings' axe options are not very good, so why not give them good apts so that there's a reason to sometimes use em? When will formicids get their translocations apt buffed
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Dec 14, 2016 07:07
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With the inclusion of beckoning they actually have a reason to invest in that school. Beckoning is really loving useful.
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Dec 14, 2016 07:18
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RIP wand acquirement.quote:Merge wand and misc acquirement  World Famous W posted:Tengus are awesome and I will fight you. Obviously HE needs to come back with the name Tengu, so we can have a good race without the Tolkien reference. PleasingFungus posted:you'll look awful silly when i... remove deep dwarves Obvious replacement: Wiglaf race. Your innate racial power is a perma-hat(fashion++).
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Dec 14, 2016 07:30
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code:
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Dec 14, 2016 07:36
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Haifisch posted:Tengu are awesome if you like dying to a stiff breeze while using the worst early game school of magic. (Or pure conjurations, but if you're going to do that, why not just play DE?) Tengus also ain't an elf, which is always a plus.
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Dec 14, 2016 07:48
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Haifisch posted:RIP wand acquirement. This actually sucks. I used wand acquirement a lot because it had a decent chance of giving you heal wounds or teleport. I'd never want to get a loving rod instead of one of those given I barely ever use evocations. quote:DD is boring as poo poo, so I don't think they'd be missed. I'd say DD should stay as a historic example about how to not design a race.
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Dec 14, 2016 08:00
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World Famous W posted:Edit: poo poo, I could have been happy at leaving maces at +1. Ogres are a hard enough start with no armor and bad dodging without taking away the ability to get a great club up and going so you can use offense as a defense. This. Race is absolutely crippled for melee now. Offense was their defense, having a big hp pool and being able to kill poo poo before it could erode it. Microcline posted:As a relatively new player, can someone explain the appeal of sludge elves? I looked at their apts and I can't tell how they're not just mermaids with an OC donut steel name. +3 transmut. The reason to play a sludge elf was to be a SeSt and train transmute using fulsome distillation and evaporate to trivialize the early game with meph and poison clouds (and if you got lucky, miasma from potions of decay) until you found more transmute spells. For example, you could pretty much clear the Hive with a pile of potions of poison and strong poison. 20.0 isn't special. This vigesimal generation, like usual, thinks they are the first one to see things removed.
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Dec 14, 2016 08:02
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Race idea: Kirby Slimes. Corrosive branded unarmed, can't wield weapons, CAN wear armor and jewelry but it is automatically melded. No hp regen, has to eat items for sustenance and healing. Can change forms and gain temporary powers based on the last few things it's eaten. Form changes can cause armor and jewelry to unmeld. No orb run, your goal is to eat the orb. This takes 100 turns and when you are done an exit appears. Either that or eating the orb gives you an OOF form.
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Dec 14, 2016 08:09
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quote:82623 InternetKraken the Nimble (level 15, -1/107 HPs) I really loving hate paralysis. Went from full health to dead because of one loving sorcerer.
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Dec 14, 2016 08:10
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PleasingFungus posted:Dark Gimli. Nega-Gimli
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Dec 14, 2016 09:17
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taqueso posted:
Orc Wizard with wand of lightning on D3
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Dec 14, 2016 10:56
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World Famous W posted:This is an awful change.
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Dec 14, 2016 12:14
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I don't get the argument for cutting high elves. Someone doesn't like tolkien? They do some stuff other races do? What? Someone articulate this in a way so that it doesn't sound like whoever did it is saying "I never play them, therefore they must go."
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Dec 14, 2016 12:47
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IronicDongz posted:How? It makes investing into magic much easier as Og while making weapon choice very slightly less of a no brainer. See my post about offense as defense on an ogre. You won't have any real AC for awhile unless you luck into a dragon armour or good AC ring. You can buff up your HP with fighting but that only goes so far when your evasion sucks and each hit is not being reduced by armour. Your best defense is being able to get maces to about 12 early on so you can one or two hit most things with a big piss off stick before they kill you in four hits. The magic apt buff helps a little, but that is delaying the club again which, well, sucks. Overall, it will make ogres a better end game race at the cost of an even harder start. And seeing as ogres were already powerful end game I don't see a point. Also, weapon choice is still no brainer seeing as almost all ogres are still going to aim for gsc.
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Dec 14, 2016 13:26
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I'm torn whether the reactions to HE removal are more far out here over the tavern. I guess here it's more ... awful  The future of DCSS: all the cool guys dead, only rubbish left to roam the dungeons! Let's see how long the Deep Elf kicks around.
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Dec 14, 2016 13:48
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Shoulda seen it coming when they removed MD.
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Dec 14, 2016 13:56
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World Famous W posted:See my post about offense as defense on an ogre. You won't have any real AC for awhile unless you luck into a dragon armour or good AC ring. You can buff up your HP with fighting but that only goes so far when your evasion sucks and each hit is not being reduced by armour. Your best defense is being able to get maces to about 12 early on so you can one or two hit most things with a big piss off stick before they kill you in four hits. The magic apt buff helps a little, but that is delaying the club again which, well, sucks.
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Dec 14, 2016 13:58
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dpeg posted:I'm torn whether the reactions to HE removal are more far out here over the tavern. I guess here it's more ... awful dpeg for the love of CHRIST please turn deep elves into deep crabs at this point im starting to worry you're not following our excellent suggestions
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Dec 14, 2016 14:04
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I'm pretty sure Humans are a better HE equivalent if you want to play an archer with support magic. Remove humans instead - they're generic and drawn from Tolkien lore. Seriously, Tengu Hexes are -3 and Charms are -2. Besides "they can use bows and air magic" I really don't see the overlap. Play styles between the two are pretty different.
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Dec 14, 2016 15:10
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HE always seemed to me to be the melee with buffs race. The combination of good combat apts and good charms mean they get to buffing much quicker.
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Dec 14, 2016 15:15
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There's not that many buffs in the game anymore though outside of the skald book(and for good reason). Charms is basically just repel, spectral weapon, ozo's and regen.
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Dec 14, 2016 15:21
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IronicDongz posted:There's not that many buffs in the game anymore though outside of the skald book(and for good reason). Charms is basically just repel, spectral weapon, ozo's and regen. Whats the good reason?
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Dec 14, 2016 15:26
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charms like stoneskin, phaseshift, and the 10 billion different brand spells were really annoying to use because it was a good idea to just keep them active all the time, which meant recasting them constantly(and in the end the end up basically like equipment, but in spell slots). ozo's is still kind of problematic after the reform because the downside is generally not meaningful and regen could do with a retool as well(probably to function like Powered by Death)
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Dec 14, 2016 15:46
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Ah, so its the HOM argument?
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Dec 14, 2016 15:56
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