Retro Gaming Megathread: Disconnect from the present, and Go back to the nineties.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Retro Gaming Megathread: Disconnect from the present, and Go back to the nineties.

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Kid Fenris: Jan 22, 2004; If someone is reading this...
I must have failed.

Film buffs and wine snobs maintain vast collections of movies and vintages, so you all better sell those flashcarts and get to work filling your shelves with actual games.

TheRedEye posted:

Actually I'm going back to the film buff analogy, at least for me.

Film buffs want to watch the best print possible of a movie. Lucky for them, technology has evolved so that the home theater experience is only bringing them closer to the ideal of being able to watch the movie "as it's intended," i.e. on a theater screen. I think most people are capable of understanding why a film fan would prefer to watch a blu-ray of a film on a good screen/projector instead of on a DVD on some Wal Mart TV.

Game "buffs" or w/e want that pure experience too, but new technology has made old stuff look worse, so we have to retain old stuff instead of upgrading to new stuff.

This comparison fractures when you consider that Blu-Rays and other visually improved movie formats do more than just look better. They often bring out details that simply weren't visible on lower-resolution formats; a sharper version of Metropolis or Royal Space Force or Kangaroo Jack will show you things you couldn't see in a more primitive incarnation. In some small way, it changes what the film conveys to you.

Most video games, old ones at least, aren't visually complex enough to do the same. It might look better when Mario leaps over a Koopa in Framemeister-vision, but the information it conveys is no different than it would be in a less polished format. It's just prettier. I can understand why that matters to some people, but I don't see a quest for pixel-perfect video games the same way I see a Blu-Ray version of a favorite movie.

Kid Fenris fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Dec 15, 2016

# ? Dec 14, 2016 23:07

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# ? May 25, 2024 12:27

d0s: Jun 28, 2004

Improbable Lobster posted:

The idea of comparing NES graphics to 70mm is pretty absurd

nobody is doing that though? they're comparing the mentality

# ? Dec 14, 2016 23:08

Random Stranger: Nov 27, 2009

8-bit Miniboss posted:

Let me tell you about the different audio chip revisions of the Sega Genesis...

There's special $200 cables you can buy for your Gamecube to get perfect picture fidelity on your television with your original Game Boy games!

# ? Dec 14, 2016 23:12

wa27: Jan 15, 2007

d0s posted:

a lot of people don't care to collect the originals but still prefer to play on the real hardware through flash carts, burned CDs etc. I don't really see it the same as vinyl records because the vinyl person prefers the lossy old format over the perfect lossless digital CD while the person who likes to play on hardware prefers the accuracy of the hardware over the "lossy" (inaccurate) emulation. video games are digital to begin with, it's choosing reality over a simulation

I use flash carts and it's nothing to do with accuracy of the hardware. It's simply because using my original SNES 20 years after I got it still brings me a small amount of joy that an emulator can't provide.

Also, I wouldn't go around saying "digital is perfect and analog is lossy" to most vinyl people. There are tons of people out there using your exact argument for original hardware as their argument for listening to vinyl.

# ? Dec 14, 2016 23:13

d0s: Jun 28, 2004

Kid Fenris posted:

Film buffs and wine snobs maintain vast collections of movies and vintages, so you'd all better sell those flashcarts and get to work filling your shelves with actual games.

This comparison fractures when you consider that Blu-Rays and other visually improved movie formats do more than just look better. They often bring out details that simply weren't visible on lower-resolution formats; a sharper version of Metropolis or Royal Space Force or Kangaroo Jack will show you things you couldn't see in a more primitive incarnation. In some small way, it changes what the film conveys to you.

Most video games, old ones at least, aren't visually complex enough to do the same. It might look better when Mario leaps over a Koopa in Framemeister-vision, but the information it conveys is no different than it would be in a less polished format. It's just prettier. I can understand why that matters to some people, but I don't see a quest for pixel-perfect video games the same way I see a Blu-Ray version of a favorite movie.

I'm pretty sure if you offered a film buff a 1:1 perfect copy of a rare film reel to play in their own personal movie theater they wouldn't really give a poo poo if it actually came from the studio that released the movie, they'd watch the movie and enjoy it. wine obviously is something that requires having a specific real thing to consume which is one of the reasons why it's a terrible comparison. the other thing you mentioned gets into really personal reasons why people want things displayed in particular ways and is completely subjective. I know film buffs who prefer watching laserdiscs over blu-rays

# ? Dec 14, 2016 23:16

d0s: Jun 28, 2004

Random Stranger posted:

There's special $200 cables you can buy for your Gamecube to get perfect picture fidelity on your television with your original Game Boy games!

as stupid as it is to spend that kind of money on those, they 1.) weren't originally sold for that price and 2.) actually improve things in a way that's completely scientifically provable. I agree that to someone who knows nothing about this stuff it would sound exactly like audiophilery though

# ? Dec 14, 2016 23:30

XYZ: Aug 31, 2001

Ya audiophiles are delusional to an extreme degree, spending tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars on complete bullshit.

We just want our games to look nice. :unsmith:

# ? Dec 14, 2016 23:45

al-azad: May 28, 2009

I still have a wood ~~stickered~~ PlayStation I'll give up for $1,000. Everyone knows the PS1 is the best CD player designed by man.

# ? Dec 14, 2016 23:48

Random Stranger: Nov 27, 2009

d0s posted:

I agree that to someone who knows nothing about this stuff it would sound exactly like audiophilery though

al-azad posted:

I still have a wood ~~stickered~~ PlayStation I'll give up for $1,000. Everyone knows the PS1 is the best CD player designed by man.

Audiophiles and retrogamers fight over PS1s that have the parallel port at the back.

# ? Dec 14, 2016 23:51

signalnoise: Mar 7, 2008; i was told my old av was distracting

I prefer my video games in an analog format

# ? Dec 14, 2016 23:51

Random Stranger: Nov 27, 2009

signalnoise posted:

I prefer my video games in an analog format

https://vimeo.com/7548051

It bothers me a lot that they use joysticks for that.

I've actually kicked around the idea of a mechanical Super Mario Bros. I was thinking that levels could be made with something like player piano scrolls and Mario's jumping could be controlled pneumatically by hitting a plunger. But mechanical engineering isn't my field.

# ? Dec 15, 2016 00:00

Karasu Tengu: Feb 16, 2011; Humble Tengu Newspaper Reporter

signalnoise posted:

I prefer my video games in an analog format

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZY_LPhkzUk

# ? Dec 15, 2016 00:05

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

Random Stranger posted:

https://vimeo.com/7548051

It bothers me a lot that they use joysticks for that.

I've actually kicked around the idea of a mechanical Super Mario Bros. I was thinking that levels could be made with something like player piano scrolls and Mario's jumping could be controlled pneumatically by hitting a plunger. But mechanical engineering isn't my field.

Did the original Pong only return balls at three angles? (I mean straight, 45 degree diagonal up, 45 degree diagonal down.) I've only played later Pong clones but they could do more angles than the 45 degree one by hitting the ball near the end of the paddle while moving.

# ? Dec 15, 2016 00:07

Shadow Hog: Feb 23, 2014; Avatar by Jon Davies

Random Stranger posted:

Audiophiles and retrogamers fight over PS1s that have the parallel port at the back.

I actually have one of these (well, specifically, one of the PS1s with the RCA jacks on the back, though those have the parallel port too), but it doesn't read any discs. Suppose I get what I paid for, given I found it at a thrift store and was like "oh, this is the one with the good sound, innit".

Actually, my PS2 has issues reading PS1 discs, too. Guessing that one's laser is on its way out or something...

# ? Dec 15, 2016 00:15

flyboi: Oct 13, 2005; agg stop posting; College Slice

d0s posted:

that actually does something useful, a lot of audiophile stuff is pretty obviously pseudoscience. without a scaler playing old consoles on an HDTV isn't a very good experience and may actually be impossible in some cases. I can't really think of much in this hobby that's as straight up scammy as audiophile stuff

edit: honestly I think the film buff comparison makes a whole lot of sense

# ? Dec 15, 2016 00:17

Crackbone: May 23, 2003; Vlaada is my co-pilot.

Probably a sidenote, but does anybody produce knock-off classic console shells? I found Zoga, who makes a near perfect top loader NES ripoff, but I'm kind of shocked nobody is making replica NES cases.

# ? Dec 15, 2016 00:21

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

Speaking of vaporware retro projects, daftmike, who gained some notoriety with his 3D-printed NES with "functional" cartridges (which contain an NFC sticker with a ROMname programmed on them and some python scripts to auto-load if you press the power button), posted about some fuckery with mass production of a kit allowing people to DIY them...back on October 31st, and a promise of daily shipping updates stopped November 2nd. Since he seems to have dropped off the face of the earth people are applying for refunds via Paypal.

Crackbone posted:

Probably a sidenote, but does anybody produce knock-off classic console shells? I found Zoga, who makes a near perfect top loader NES ripoff, but I'm kind of shocked nobody is making replica NES cases.

Well, that was interesting timing. There are several people who do NES shells 3D printed like on Thingiverse and the like, for stuffing with a Raspberry Pi.

# ? Dec 15, 2016 00:24

Alucardd: Aug 1, 2006

Elliotw2 posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZY_LPhkzUk

Monaco GP is fascinating in that it looks way better than any other game at the time in 1979 by a long shot and yet still TTL.

# ? Dec 15, 2016 00:25

Wise Fwom Yo Gwave: Jan 9, 2006; Popping up from out of nowhere...

Bought all this today at Micro Center in Tustin for 97 bucks. Not bad, say I. Not bad.

# ? Dec 15, 2016 00:31

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

Ineffiable posted:

Well kind of. But original video games are like actual film strips, close to the most pure format you can get it in.

Buying bluray is getting closer to the original resolution. Buying framemeister or hdmi nes is getting closer to the best we can see that game in. Emulators are more like up scaling and hdr+ on tvs (hdr+ is literally the TV trying to do fake hdr on stuff that isn't, essentially a filter)

This kind of breaks because Blu-Ray actually can do higher quality, higher resolution, then a lot of movies' original film actually represents - particularly films that made heavy use of special effects in forms that involved copying original frames onto another set in the production process in combination with the effect images, as well as just plain films shot cheaply.

And you also have to consider that the original films would tend to be watched on low quality projectors, with low quality projection screens from not the greatest prints. So the way people originally watched them was often quite a bit lower quality than it could be, kinda like game players hooking up a console by RF instead of composite or s-video... and the modern Blu-Ray you buy could end up looking a lot better than the original experience in the same way proper scaling on a modern display would, instead of Grandma's half broken 1975 color TV you used.

Kid Fenris posted:

This comparison fractures when you consider that Blu-Rays and other visually improved movie formats do more than just look better. They often bring out details that simply weren't visible on lower-resolution formats; a sharper version of Metropolis or Royal Space Force or Kangaroo Jack will show you things you couldn't see in a more primitive incarnation. In some small way, it changes what the film conveys to you.

Where this really shines is mid-20th century TV shows that were shot on good quality film stock. Something like the Blu-Ray transfers of the Twilight Zone (besides the few episodes shot on videotape) not only look amazing, they look better than you could have possibly seen the shows when new, broadcast on TV.

# ? Dec 15, 2016 00:32

Karasu Tengu: Feb 16, 2011; Humble Tengu Newspaper Reporter

A tip with that particular controller, if either joystick is sticky you just need to undo the screws a little.

# ? Dec 15, 2016 00:32

Wise Fwom Yo Gwave: Jan 9, 2006; Popping up from out of nowhere...

Elliotw2 posted:

A tip with that particular controller, if either joystick is sticky you just need to undo the screws a little.

Screws?

# ? Dec 15, 2016 00:39

Karasu Tengu: Feb 16, 2011; Humble Tengu Newspaper Reporter

Wise Fwom Yo Gwave posted:

Screws?

Yeah, the back plate just snaps off, and you can undo the screws on the lower left and right if your joysticks get caught or whatever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHz9x3zzXwM

# ? Dec 15, 2016 00:42

Wise Fwom Yo Gwave: Jan 9, 2006; Popping up from out of nowhere...

Elliotw2 posted:

Yeah, the back plate just snaps off, and you can undo the screws on the lower left and right if your joysticks get caught or whatever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHz9x3zzXwM

Thank you for that. What I'm actually noticing are some issues like holding Y, for example, will occasionally cause Mario to toss a fireball in Super Mario World, even though I'm holding it down steady.

# ? Dec 15, 2016 00:51

LegoMan: Mar 17, 2002; ting ting ting; College Slice

I bought an SNES off craigslist for $60 hoping to relive the glory days of college. My first trip to a retro gaming shop had Super Metroid for 125 dollars. I'm really not interested in creating a wall of games to stare at, I'm just a tired dad who wants to get high in his shed and play Super Nintendo when the kids go to bed. Is there a definitive list of ROMs the SD2SNES cart won't play so I don't waste 200 bux on it before realizing it won't play the games I want to play?

*edit* ok I found this as usual seconds after I post.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_NES_enhancement_chips#List_of_Super_NES_games_that_use_enhancement_chips

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:05

flyboi: Oct 13, 2005; agg stop posting; College Slice

LegoMan posted:

I bought an SNES off craigslist for $60 hoping to relive the glory days of college. My first trip to a retro gaming shop had Super Metroid for 125 dollars. I'm really not interested in creating a wall of games to stare at, I'm just a tired dad who wants to get high in his shed and play Super Nintendo when the kids go to bed. Is there a definitive list of ROMs the SD2SNES cart won't play so I don't waste 200 bux on it before realizing it won't play the games I want to play?

*edit* ok I found this as usual seconds after I post.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_NES_enhancement_chips#List_of_Super_NES_games_that_use_enhancement_chips

https://sd2snes.de/blog/compatibility

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:07

Caitlin: Aug 18, 2006; When I die, if there is a heaven, I will spend eternity rolling around with a pile of kittens.

it's literally in our OP

http://retrogooning.com/wiki/Flashcarts

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:08

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

LegoMan posted:

I bought an SNES off craigslist for $60 hoping to relive the glory days of college. My first trip to a retro gaming shop had Super Metroid for 125 dollars. I'm really not interested in creating a wall of games to stare at, I'm just a tired dad who wants to get high in his shed and play Super Nintendo when the kids go to bed. Is there a definitive list of ROMs the SD2SNES cart won't play so I don't waste 200 bux on it before realizing it won't play the games I want to play?

*edit* ok I found this as usual seconds after I post.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_NES_enhancement_chips#List_of_Super_NES_games_that_use_enhancement_chips

With an SD2SNES the only chips that don't work that you'll likely run into are SA-1 (Super Mario RPG, Street Fighter Alpha 2) and SuperFX (Star Fox, DOOM, Yoshi's Island).

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:08

Wise Fwom Yo Gwave: Jan 9, 2006; Popping up from out of nowhere...

After doing a firmware update on the FC30Pro, I'm super happy to report that the issue I was encountering is GONE! Whoooooo

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:09

Zamujasa: Oct 27, 2010; Bread Liar

al-azad posted:

I still have a wood ~~stickered~~ PlayStation I'll give up for $1,000. Everyone knows the PS1 is the best CD player designed by man.

I actually had an old clock that had a sticker on it proudly proclaiming SIMULATED WOOD GRAIN. Things were weird.

Kid Fenris posted:

Most video games, old ones at least, aren't visually complex enough to do the same. It might look better when Mario leaps over a Koopa in Framemeister-vision, but the information it conveys is no different than it would be in a less polished format. It's just prettier. I can understand why that matters to some people, but I don't see a quest for pixel-perfect video games the same way I see a Blu-Ray version of a favorite movie.

There's a small argument to be made that back in the days of RF adapters and budget TV sets there was some pretty major visual loss compared to what you can get out of the RGB/Fraimmeister/HDMI setups these days; for example, how many people were surprised to find out that the flagpoles in SMB1 were truly perfectly solid and straight as opposed to a weirdly-textured slanty pattern?

Some days I miss the old analog stuff :shobon:

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:11

LegoMan: Mar 17, 2002; ting ting ting; College Slice

flyboi posted:

https://sd2snes.de/blog/compatibility

This link is tits, thank you.

univbee posted:

With an SD2SNES the only chips that don't work that you'll likely run into are SA-1 (Super Mario RPG, Street Fighter Alpha 2) and SuperFX (Star Fox, DOOM, Yoshi's Island).

Yeah the link above makes me hopeful. I really just want to play Donkey Kong Country and Super Metroid. I heard there's a good side scrolling shooter the retro gaming guy tried to sell me but by then I was so loving blown away by the price of games I just wanted out.

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:12

Karasu Tengu: Feb 16, 2011; Humble Tengu Newspaper Reporter

Wise Fwom Yo Gwave posted:

After doing a firmware update on the FC30Pro, I'm super happy to report that the issue I was encountering is GONE! Whoooooo

Don't forget to update to 1.71 beta if you have Windows 10 and a bluetooth adapter, since it adds a wireless xinput mode.

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:12

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

LegoMan posted:

This link is tits, thank you.
Yeah the link above makes me hopeful. I really just want to play Donkey Kong Country and Super Metroid. I heard there's a good side scrolling shooter the retro gaming guy tried to sell me but by then I was so loving blown away by the price of games I just wanted out.

Incidentally you can pay quite a bit less for a Super Everdrive; not as compatible but only a tiny subsection of games are affected by this, and likely none that you care about.

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:16

Wise Fwom Yo Gwave: Jan 9, 2006; Popping up from out of nowhere...

Elliotw2 posted:

Don't forget to update to 1.71 beta if you have Windows 10 and a bluetooth adapter, since it adds a wireless xinput mode.

I just did 1.71 proper, not beta, but I was mostly looking at using this thing on the old systems themselves because I thought it'd be neat.

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:16

Monitor Burn: Nov 29, 2001; No clever to be found here

LegoMan posted:

I bought an SNES off craigslist for $60 hoping to relive the glory days of college. My first trip to a retro gaming shop had Super Metroid for 125 dollars. I'm really not interested in creating a wall of games to stare at, I'm just a tired dad who wants to get high in his shed and play Super Nintendo when the kids go to bed. Is there a definitive list of ROMs the SD2SNES cart won't play so I don't waste 200 bux on it before realizing it won't play the games I want to play?

*edit* ok I found this as usual seconds after I post.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_NES_enhancement_chips#List_of_Super_NES_games_that_use_enhancement_chips

https://sd2snes.de/blog/compatibility

As far as the games most people care about :

Star Fox / Star Fox 2
Yoshi�s Island
Kirby�s Dream Land 3
Kirby Super Star
Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
Street Fighter Alpha 2 / Zero 2

OK yeah no one needs to play Alpha 2 on the SNES

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:17

Random Stranger: Nov 27, 2009

LegoMan posted:

This link is tits, thank you.
Yeah the link above makes me hopeful. I really just want to play Donkey Kong Country and Super Metroid. I heard there's a good side scrolling shooter the retro gaming guy tried to sell me but by then I was so loving blown away by the price of games I just wanted out.

Pricing on old games has gotten absurd, but it sounds like the store you were in was especially crazy.

Monitor Burn posted:

OK yeah no one needs to play Alpha 2 on the SNES

Especially when they should just play Alpha 3.

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:18

Monitor Burn: Nov 29, 2001; No clever to be found here

Also the reason to pick up an SD2SNES is to play MSU-1 games like Road Blaster:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YuWwoeAxCk

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:19

LegoMan: Mar 17, 2002; ting ting ting; College Slice

univbee posted:

Incidentally you can pay quite a bit less for a Super Everdrive; not as compatible but only a tiny subsection of games are affected by this, and likely none that you care about.

The Everdrive costs 114 with DSP support but is the loading speed a problem?

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:21