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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:y'all are literally making the "it's just a few bad apples" arguments that copfuckers do except you're doing it for corrupt union officials, no matter how rare a breed those officials might be how long until you are just pretending to be stupid?
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Dec 15, 2016 00:55
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Cmon guys, it's not like there's a widespread systemic smear campaign to make unions seem corrupt and useless as a tool to extract what few labor rights workers have in our country.
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Dec 15, 2016 00:55
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:y'all are literally making the "it's just a few bad apples" arguments that copfuckers do except you're doing it for corrupt union officials, no matter how rare a breed those officials might be No, they're not. One reflects an institutional lack of restraint & accountability. One reflects the fact that perfect institutions are impossible.
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Dec 15, 2016 00:55
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:No. Just having them acknowledge that sometimes The Union doesn't care about the workers and their leaders have become part of The Problem. The correct response is to discuss accountability and how to empower the worker to deal with that type of situation which 100% exists as the few high-profile cases from this year demonstrate. They exist and they should be solved, but they shouldn't be dragged to the foretfront of national discourse to reinforce the anti-union bias and distract the left from laying down a new argument for unions. The efficiency concerns of running an organization are of secondary importance if the organization is struggling to even survive.
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Dec 15, 2016 00:56
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:No. Just having them acknowledge that sometimes The Union doesn't care about the workers and their leaders have become part of The Problem. The correct response is to discuss accountability and how to empower the worker to deal with that type of situation which 100% exists as the few high-profile cases from this year demonstrate. corruption isn't the same thing as incompetence. i can be the first person to attest that personally, many union officials are incompetent
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Dec 15, 2016 00:56
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Ace of Baes posted:Cmon guys, it's not like there's a widespread systemic smear campaign to make unions seem corrupt and useless as a tool to extract what few labor rights workers have in our country. hmmm sounds like a conspiracy theory. capitalists would never attempt to do anything untoward with our economic/political systems in order to further enrich themselves! lol!
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Dec 15, 2016 00:57
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b-b-but unions are corrupt I cry as wages haven't risen in the last 30 years
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Dec 15, 2016 00:57
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most officials are incompetent, end quote
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Dec 15, 2016 00:57
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I get some actual work done for like an hour and a half and the whole thread burns down.
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Dec 15, 2016 00:57
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After we take on union corruption I hope we can move on to more prescient issues, like people taking advantage of welfare and social security disability insurance.
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Dec 15, 2016 00:57
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Whoever the lucky poor bastard is that runs against Trump in 2020, they'll have their hands full descalating, or finishing the Iranian War maybe http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-38299179
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Dec 15, 2016 00:58
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Serf posted:hmmm sounds like a conspiracy theory. capitalists would never attempt to do anything untoward with our economic/political systems in order to further enrich themselves! its almost as if a conscious class acts in its own interests hmm...
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Dec 15, 2016 00:58
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GlyphGryph posted:That was definitely not what Trump's campaign was founded on. No, but it made enough of a difference to get him elected. Without the bogeymanning of Clinton's pro-choice SCOTUS choices, Evangelicals wouldn't have turned out to vote for Trump.
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Dec 15, 2016 00:58
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what unions should do, rather than fight for our very existence, is to police every one of our members, everywhere, and root out any and all lawbreaking.
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Dec 15, 2016 00:58
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steinrokkan posted:They exist and they should be solved, but they shouldn't be dragged to the foretfront of national discourse to reinforce the anti-union bias and distract the left from laying down a new argument for unions. Agreed, but I do not represent the forefront of national discourse. I am merely a poster on a comedy forum pointing out a specific problem, and am curious in what the answer is from National Unions. If the answer is "Jimmy Hoffa" I'm going to have to question if Unions, as they exist today, are worth supporting.
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Dec 15, 2016 00:59
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:Agreed, but I do not represent the forefront of national discourse. I am merely a poster on a comedy forum pointing out a specific problem, and am curious in what the answer is from National Unions. If the answer is "Jimmy Hoffa" I'm going to have to question if Unions, as they exist today, are worth supporting. maybe don't post dumb fuckin 'stories' you heard about a union official wanting $100,000 and two SUVs to "join the union", which lmao
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Dec 15, 2016 00:59
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lazorexplosion posted:Literal fact: Republicans are better at identity politics than Democrats. Their version of identity politics at least isn't loaded with academic gibberish and they're generally better at framing the off-putting part of their identity politics into more subtle and deniable dog whistles. Think about it. The one problem with speaking to racial identity is that white people eventually remember their identity is 'majority in charge of everything with all of the power' and then whelp. Gotta have some other identities in the mix.
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Dec 15, 2016 00:59
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RENEGADE CUCKSKY posted:what unions should do, rather than fight for our very existence, is to police every one of our members, everywhere, and root out any and all lawbreaking. obviously stop stealing from your social betters. those billionaires worked hard for that money
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Dec 15, 2016 00:59
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Like, once there is a strong consensus about the necessity of organized labor, there can be a good faith debate on corruption within its institutions. Until then yielding debate space to such a discussion means serving the regressive conservative agenda. And consequently anti-corruption measures must be mainly restricted to internal auditing and such, rather than to democratic political oversight, as non-optimal as it may be from an idealist point of view.
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Dec 15, 2016 01:00
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RENEGADE CUCKSKY posted:what unions should do, rather than fight for our very existence, is to police every one of our members, everywhere, and root out any and all lawbreaking. A union boss breaking the law isn't a problem. A Union Boss undermining the workers of the union he is supposed to represent IS a huge problem.
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Dec 15, 2016 01:00
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Majorian posted:No, but it made enough of a difference to get him elected. Without the bogeymanning of Clinton's pro-choice SCOTUS choices, Evangelicals wouldn't have turned out to vote for Trump. Ahahaha no. Evangelicals would have voted for Trump regardless. Defeating women's rights was just a side bonus
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Dec 15, 2016 01:02
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'what happened to the unions daddy' 'well, son , they worked for a while, did us a lot of good,' 'but then, like, 0.5% of the people working for a union embezzeled some money, or something, so we just threw up our hands in the air' 'and that's why we have to dig up coal with our bare hands. so hurry up and put on your respirator' 'but it's my 10th birthday tomorrow and this respirator is broken, can i at least get a new one' 'it's called personal responsibility son'
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Dec 15, 2016 01:02
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:Agreed, but I do not represent the forefront of national discourse. I am merely a poster on a comedy forum pointing out a specific problem, and am curious in what the answer is from National Unions. If the answer is "Jimmy Hoffa" I'm going to have to question if Unions, as they exist today, are worth supporting. Yeah, fair enough, but this is a thread about national politics, so it's only natural that bringing up something implies it is in the context of national politics.
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Dec 15, 2016 01:02
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paranoid randroid posted:which is the more Voxy thing - using The West Wing or Game of Thrones to explain politics pointing out how the conventional media narrative about how a thing is just like this thing in game of thrones is actually more like this thing from harry potter
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Dec 15, 2016 01:03
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RENEGADE CUCKSKY posted:maybe don't post dumb fuckin 'stories' you heard about a union official wanting $100,000 and two SUVs to "join the union", which lmao I guess I could call the guy a liar. But he is a jersey dude who's father is union from the get-go, and who was willing to help him pay the unofficial dues. So maybe he isn't whatever strawman you've concocted in your head. But here lets make this theoretical. Let's say that the Fox Characture of the Union boss appeared out of the ether, and started demanding bribes from new members to join the union. What should the workers do?
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Dec 15, 2016 01:03
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Oh Snapple! posted:Considering running on his approval rating just ended in a resounding defeat, I'm going to submit that approval rating doesn't actually mean poo poo Do you really think that's why Clinton lost? That's one of the few things she did right. Jesus dude. 
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Dec 15, 2016 01:03
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either that or twirling their drawn-own moustache while sneering about coal miners losing medicaid coverage
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Dec 15, 2016 01:04
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Majorian posted:Do you really think that's why Clinton lost? That's one of the few things she did right. Jesus dude. clinton lost for like 40 different reasons
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Dec 15, 2016 01:04
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AngryBooch posted:Let's all sit in a circle in a park so I can tell you about a movement more concerned with process than actually accruing political power called Occupy Wall Street. We'll call a lot of things problematic Hello fellow protester. I am a protester just like you and let me tell you why unions are bad. Say, do you have any actionable intelligence about your friends or family? Furthermore, lets go cause some property damage!
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Dec 15, 2016 01:05
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oh loving christ is Majorian trying to argue my point now? gently caress this I'm out, y'all are right
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Dec 15, 2016 01:06
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Stexils posted:clinton lost for like 40 different reasons Indeed. Running on Obama's high approval ratings wasn't one of them.
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Dec 15, 2016 01:07
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this thread is a case study on why the democratic party should be purged and rocketed into a volcano
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Dec 15, 2016 01:08
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Not a Step posted:Ahahaha no. Evangelicals would have voted for Trump regardless. Defeating women's rights was just a side bonus Trump was doing pretty shittily among Evangelicals until he started harping on abortion-happy SCOTUS picks. They broke pretty late for him.
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Dec 15, 2016 01:08
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although I will say it's cool y'all totally freaked out and started screaming false flag at the suggestion that maybe someone somewhere in a union might be corrupt and that that's a bad thing, y'all are great spokesmen and will surely be able to make convincing arguments to people who don't already agree with you
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Dec 15, 2016 01:09
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:oh loving christ is Majorian on my side now? gently caress this Stfu.
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Dec 15, 2016 01:09
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Majorian posted:Indeed. Running on Obama's high approval ratings wasn't one of them. I dunno. Promising to be Obama's third term was the height of 'America is Already Great'. Stronger themes of building on his legacy rather than just acting as caretaker might have turned out more of the vote.
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Dec 15, 2016 01:09
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:although I will say it's cool y'all totally freaked out and started screaming false flag at the suggestion that maybe someone somewhere in a union might be corrupt and that that's a bad thing, y'all are great spokesmen and will surely be able to make convincing arguments to people who don't already agree with you  Just Asking Questions, right?
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Dec 15, 2016 01:09
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:although I will say it's cool y'all totally freaked out and started screaming false flag at the suggestion that maybe someone somewhere in a union might be corrupt and that that's a bad thing, y'all are great spokesmen and will surely be able to make convincing arguments to people who don't already agree with you go pop a xanax
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Dec 15, 2016 01:10
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:although I will say it's cool y'all totally freaked out and started screaming false flag at the suggestion that maybe someone somewhere in a union might be corrupt and that that's a bad thing, y'all are great spokesmen and will surely be able to make convincing arguments to people who don't already agree with you You are an incredibly, jaw-droppingly stupid and disingenuous piece of poo poo that should cease posting in this thread.
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Dec 15, 2016 01:11
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edit: gently caress it, never mind
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Dec 15, 2016 01:11
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