SUK ZONE: it's all a pointless exercise and you're just screaming into the void

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > SUK ZONE: it's all a pointless exercise and you're just screaming into the void

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Zoq-Fot-Pik: Jun 27, 2008; Frungy!

Majorian posted:

And yet big chunks of their demographic didn't show any signs of turning out for him until late in the race.

My point is, negative campaigning had a pretty significant effect. Acting like running negative ads against Trump was a mistake, is dumb.

Maybe trying to lean hard on negative campaigning to shore up a vaporous, dishonest, unpopular policy platform is also dumb.

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:43

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# ? May 13, 2024 06:45

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

i wonder if "merry holidays" will trigger people

not that I could find out, i'll be vacationing in :japan:

by then

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:43

Majorian: Jul 1, 2009; Inverted Offensive Battle: Acupuncture Attacks Convert To 3D Penetration Tactics Taking Advantage of Deep Battle Opportunities

docbeard posted:

Bit of a tangent, but since evangelical voters have been brought up it feels relevant, but all I want for Christmas is a big ol' Liberation Theology Revival with some good old-fashioned preaching about Love and Peace and Good News For The Poor and the Sermon on the Mount and Whatsoever You Have Done To The Least Of These You Have Done To Me and how the Prosperity Gospel is Literal Farts From Satan's Butt.

Even atheists on the left need to get on this boat IMO. You don't have to believe in the Gospel to say, "Hey, you say you believe in the principles of this Jesus guy, buuuuut..."

Zoq-Fot-Pik posted:

Maybe trying to lean hard on negative campaigning to shore up a vaporous, dishonest, unpopular policy platform is also dumb.

It is, but the lesson we take from this shouldn't be, "Negative campaigning doesn't work." It does, and it did in this case, to some extent. It just wasn't enough to eclipse Clinton's own shortcomings.

Majorian has issued a correction as of 01:46 on Dec 15, 2016

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:44

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

also on a more anecdote side of things, in my experience most of the Good Christian Morals types who wound up being holdouts that only crumbled at last minute for Trump weren't actually holdouts at all, but wanted to pretend to be so they looked like they were grappling with the choice and solemnly had to vote how they did For America.

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:45

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

Majorian posted:

Yup, there you go. Negative campaigning at work.

This is only negative campaigning from your point of view though. To his target audience this was a positive message of political change. ~~Hillary~~ The Democrats are in favor of baby murder, and Trump will put a stop to that. Contrast that to Hillary, whose primary campaign message was 'Trump real bad. lik, so bad' but lacked any follow up point on how she was different and what she would do to fix the issues Trump was associated with.

Like it or not Trump ran the more positive campaign. He followed up his insults with policy promises. Excruciatingly stupid policy promises, but policy promises nonetheless. He consistently told his base about what made him different from Clinton and how he was going to run things.

Clinton ran exclusively negative ads, pointing out Trump was bad with no followup. No policy goal to differentiate her, no magic words.

Nix Panicus has issued a correction as of 01:51 on Dec 15, 2016

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:45

docbeard: Jul 19, 2011

paranoid randroid posted:

[sotto voce] william barber my dude

Repairers of the Breach. Now that's the stuff.

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:46

Majorian: Jul 1, 2009; Inverted Offensive Battle: Acupuncture Attacks Convert To 3D Penetration Tactics Taking Advantage of Deep Battle Opportunities

Not a Step posted:

This is only negative campaigning from your point of view though. To his target audience this was a positive message of political change. Hillary is in favor of baby murder, and Trump will put a stop to that. Contrast that to Hillary, whose primary campaign message was 'Trump real bad. lik, so bad' but lacked any follow up point on how she was different and what she would do to fix the issues Trump was associated with.

Like it or not Trump ran the more positive campaign. He followed up his insults with policy promises. Excruciatingly stupid policy promises, but policy promises nonetheless. He consistently told his base about what made him different from Clinton and how he was going to run things.

Clinton ran exclusively negative ads, pointing out Trump was bad with no followup. No policy goal to differentiate her, no magic words.

All true. It was a half-baked strategy, and it's mind-boggling to me that her campaign vets didn't recognize this at the time. But I think Dems should be cautious about overcorrecting on that strategy. Negative campaigning still works - you just have to balance it with positive, attractive policy goals, as you yourself say.

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:49

big black turnout: Jan 13, 2009; Fallen Rib

Tatum Girlparts posted:

also on a more anecdote side of things, in my experience most of the Good Christian Morals types who wound up being holdouts that only crumbled at last minute for Trump weren't actually holdouts at all, but wanted to pretend to be so they looked like they were grappling with the choice and solemnly had to vote how they did For America.

this was generally my experience as well. i think that's all the "voter shaming" or whatever you want to call it that the clinton campaign did actually accomplished

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:55

The_Politics_Man: Aug 25, 2015

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

i wonder if "merry holidays" will trigger people

not that I could find out, i'll be vacationing in by then

merry winter solstice celebration

# ? Dec 15, 2016 01:57

bump_fn: Apr 12, 2004; _{two of them}

"b-b-b-but unions can be corrupt!" he shouts as the literal next president of the united states literally violates the constitution

# ? Dec 15, 2016 02:00

Pollyanna: Mar 5, 2005; Milk's on them.

livestream starting soon

https://ourrevolution.com/keith-ellison-dnc-livestream/

# ? Dec 15, 2016 02:00

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

Tatum Girlparts posted:

also on a more anecdote side of things, in my experience most of the Good Christian Morals types who wound up being holdouts that only crumbled at last minute for Trump weren't actually holdouts at all, but wanted to pretend to be so they looked like they were grappling with the choice and solemnly had to vote how they did For America.

My Evangelical family was all on the Trump train since just after the primary (they were Cruzites before :negative:

). But honestly they are just the worst kind of people in many ways and I expected nothing different from any of them. I have a cousin who is half Latin who spouts White Nationalist talking points and somehow misses the irony of it.

resar posted:

merry winter solstice celebration

Happy Festivus

# ? Dec 15, 2016 02:02

Aurubin: Mar 17, 2011

Well that's some poo poo. Solis, Obama's previous Labor Secretary is endorsing Ellison on this stream.

# ? Dec 15, 2016 02:03

blood simple: Apr 10, 2010

our dear leader now speaks

# ? Dec 15, 2016 02:04

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Aurubin posted:

Well that's some poo poo. Solis, Obama's previous Labor Secretary is endorsing Ellison on this stream.

# ? Dec 15, 2016 02:04

paranoid randroid: Mar 4, 2007

docbeard posted:

Repairers of the Breach. Now that's the stuff.

I think that model is probably our best shot at an American left-populism

# ? Dec 15, 2016 02:05

Aurubin: Mar 17, 2011

I don't know if the FEC will allow "Kickin' rear end 4 the Workin' Class" on a campaign sign. Also this woman is having a stroke on stage.

# ? Dec 15, 2016 02:06

bump_fn: Apr 12, 2004; _{two of them}

i will admit that part of the reason i like keith is that he is the thing that reactionaries said obama was

a leftist muslim pro labor socialist

# ? Dec 15, 2016 02:07

big black turnout: Jan 13, 2009; Fallen Rib

Aurubin posted:

Well that's some poo poo. Solis, Obama's previous Labor Secretary is endorsing Ellison on this stream.

ya that made me laugh

# ? Dec 15, 2016 02:07

big black turnout: Jan 13, 2009; Fallen Rib

but lady stop squintin so hard drat

# ? Dec 15, 2016 02:07

bump_fn: Apr 12, 2004; _{two of them}

poo poo BOUT TO GET DEUS EX IN HERE

# ? Dec 15, 2016 02:09

paranoid randroid: Mar 4, 2007

bump_fn posted:

i will admit that part of the reason i like keith is that he is the thing that reactionaries said obama was

a leftist muslim pro labor socialist

sworn in on Thomas Jeffersons koran

troll game: strong

# ? Dec 15, 2016 02:10

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Aurubin posted:

Well that's some poo poo. Solis, Obama's previous Labor Secretary is endorsing Ellison on this stream.

Perez just winced and grabbed his balls but he's not sure why

# ? Dec 15, 2016 02:10

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

paranoid randroid posted:

sworn in on Thomas Jeffersons koran

troll game: strong

also iirc he's the reason glenn beck got shitcanned from CNN after glenn challenged him to prove he wasn't a terrorist

# ? Dec 15, 2016 02:11

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

^^^Yea that was basically the straw that broke the camel's back.

I have a massive amount of respect for Ellison as an activist and a politician, I think he seems to be genuinely a good man who's good for the party and country and fully qualified for the DNC chair role.

But yea I also kinda love that after all that crying the reactionaries did odds are good the DNC will now ACTUALLY be run by a black Muslim socialist,

# ? Dec 15, 2016 02:12