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Business Gorillas posted:I'm not understating his populist support, but imagine how far it would've gotten if the clinton wing of the party basically won the campaign without it I really don't know to be honest, I think he could still do a lot of good as a VP, even if it's using his position to put pressure on Hillary. LBJ wasn't a populist iirc, he wasn't hosting rallies that were more successful than JFK's. Unless you're expecting Bernie to just fall in line (not going to lie, I could buy it) I don't really think him being VP could possibly be a bad thing.
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Dec 15, 2016 02:15
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like seriously in what universe would sanders have any sort of meaningful impact on policy besides some poison pill brocialism thing put forward so the clintonistas could yell "WELL WE TRIED IT YOUR WAY AND IT DIDNT WORK, LEFTISTS" for the next decade
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Dec 15, 2016 02:15
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Business Gorillas posted:like seriously in what universe would sanders have any sort of meaningful impact on policy besides some poison pill brocialism thing put forward so the clintonistas could yell "WELL WE TRIED IT YOUR WAY AND IT DIDNT WORK, LEFTISTS" for the next decade I don't know, people seem to think Mike Pence is going to have all sorts of meaningful impacts on policy. I don't really buy that the VP is a powerless position. I mean, put him there just so if Hillary dies we get him. Based on that strategy alone I'm in.
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Dec 15, 2016 02:16
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Yeah the way things shook out and the attitudes expressed by a lot of the Democratic establishment makes me think the promises and platform would have been completely ignored except when convenient as unrealistic
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Dec 15, 2016 02:17
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NewForumSoftware posted:I don't know, people seem to think Mike Pence is going to have all sorts of meaningful impacts on policy. that's because known Garbage Man Donaldo Trump literally doesn't want to be president. there's a pretty big difference. you see how smug and insufferable clinton supporters are? how they jettisoned the entirety of economic justice from the party because regulating the banks doesn't fix racism? imagine if they actually won on that platform. this whole soul-searching thing that we're doing right now wouldn't even be happening, sanders wouldn't be the current kingmaker, and the left would be even further marginalized.
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Dec 15, 2016 02:19
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Business Gorillas posted:that's because known Garbage Man Donaldo Trump literally doesn't want to be president. there's a pretty big difference. Yeah, I disagree with that assertion... quote:you see how smug and insufferable clinton supporters are? how they jettisoned the entirety of economic justice from the party because regulating the banks doesn't fix racism? imagine if they actually won on that platform. this whole soul-searching thing that we're doing right now wouldn't even be happening, sanders wouldn't be the current kingmaker, and the left would be even further marginalized. Look I get that die hard Hillary supporters are poo poo but I don't think that's the entirety of the Democratic party and I do believe there are factions in the party that would be more than willing support Vice President Bernie Sanders if he attempted to pressure his own administration to take better action. Really doesn't matter though, only point was that she probably could have won with him as VP and the country would probably be better off for it.
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Dec 15, 2016 02:24
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Nevvy Z posted:Sorry Bernie lost but get over it. I supported him too. And then I supported Clinton. Because we need a competent President. If voting against trump wasn't enough motivation, you are a loving idiot. hahaha it's precious you think abuela is competent as if we didn't just get confirmation again today that she is completely incompetent
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Dec 15, 2016 02:29
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Chomp8645 posted:It was really just a comment about the enthusiasm gap. The idea that in California of all places I could see Trump supporters lining the roads with nary a Hildawg in sight is just I doubt most of those Trump supporters actually showed up, though. The way the EC works means that California republicans will, for the most part, not bother to show up.
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Dec 15, 2016 02:43
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Condiv posted:hahaha Seriously, if her campaign was any sign of her administration... Business Gorillas posted:like seriously in what universe would sanders have any sort of meaningful impact on policy besides some poison pill brocialism thing put forward so the clintonistas could yell "WELL WE TRIED IT YOUR WAY AND IT DIDNT WORK, LEFTISTS" for the next decade The one where Hillary suffers a debilitating seizure and has to drop out of the race
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Dec 15, 2016 02:44
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http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/michigan-hillary-clinton-trump-232547
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Dec 15, 2016 02:49
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NewForumSoftware posted:I really don't think the political parties are able to really quash political movements like this, especially in the internet age(see: Donald Trump). Bernie had way too much public support for the DNC to attack him. There was nothing allowed, they fought him as hard as they could, and won. What do you think the point of all those restrictions on primary voting are? LOL. Bernie was hilariously unprepared for a national campaign. He was a safe "joke" candidate to placate the left wing of the party as part of a "fair contest". That he was a major threat to Hillary's coronation was seen as an insult by Clintonistas but was a warning to everyone else. I told you fuckers she was a toxic mix of Nixon and Romney. And all I got for it was this lousy red text.
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Dec 15, 2016 02:50
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Majorian posted:This is true, and I think we should take them with more of a grain of salt than a lot of the Bernie fans here are. I'm pretty sure they did realize it and that's why they gave Bernie so much leeway on the platform.
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Dec 15, 2016 02:57
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Condiv posted:it's precious you think abuela is competent as if we didn't just get confirmation again today that she is completely incompetent This is a gross misuse of the word incompetent.
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Dec 15, 2016 03:28
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NewForumSoftware posted:I disagree, the Dems control Vermont, they can replace the senator just fine there if it came down to it. Yeah, but it's unlikely that a Dem with Sanders' voice would have been appointed. He's far more useful as someone continually putting leftward pressure on the Dems in the Senate, than in a position that doesn't really affect policy at all. JeffersonClay posted:I'm pretty sure they did realize it and that's why they gave Bernie so much leeway on the platform. It was pretty dumb of them to not let him do more on the campaign trail, though, per the Politico article.
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Dec 15, 2016 03:28
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If anyone has the data, what was the 2012, and 2016 turnout in Flint, considering that it was lead poisoned by state Republicans in the years between. I'm genuinely curious if the Democratic Party's Nominee was even able to motivate a city with at least two years of hate towards Snyder loving a generation of their kids.
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Dec 15, 2016 03:30
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Hey other backwards looking thread, hope you guys got in on the Keith Ellison thing and saw how good and cool he is and can take some heart that the Democratic Party might have a future left in it
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Dec 15, 2016 03:30
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statistically, some of you fuckers voted for Trump and are just here lobbing bernie bombs i know it
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Dec 15, 2016 03:38
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Majorian posted:Yeah, but it's unlikely that a Dem with Sanders' voice would have been appointed. He's far more useful as someone continually putting leftward pressure on the Dems in the Senate, than in a position that doesn't really affect policy at all. I think maybe you're misreading it a bit. The article says sanders did campaign appearances throughout the fall but Sanders' campaign staffers never got asked for help formulating strategy. That's still not smart but less obviously terrible.
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Dec 15, 2016 03:38
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Shageletic posted:This was a point of pride in the campaign. Well, now that we have a president who is determined to run the government like a business, I think it's time to consult this handy reference guide. Things that should be run like a business A business (arguably) Things that should not be run like a business Literally everything else.
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Dec 15, 2016 03:42
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Mnoba posted:statistically, some of you fuckers voted for Trump and are just here lobbing bernie bombs i know it Your point? That doesnt make them republicans. Lol iron abuela. The most hilarious nickname. Id almost started to forget it.
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Dec 15, 2016 03:43
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Mister Macys posted:If anyone has the data, what was the 2012, and 2016 turnout in Flint, considering that it was lead poisoned by state Republicans in the years between. these numbers are old before the vote was finalized but here's what i got back when i was curious about it quote:Michigan 2016
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Dec 15, 2016 03:50
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also y'all should listen to bernie and keith's speech on their vision for the future of the democratic party https://ourrevolution.com/keith-ellison-dnc-livestream/ key takeaway https://twitter.com/aseitzwald/status/809216565287813120
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Dec 15, 2016 03:51
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Keith gives a shout out to Hubert Humphreys and is very good. Please go watch and then return to your regularly scheduled circular firing squad
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Dec 15, 2016 03:55
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only reason ellison looks good is putin hasn't hacked him yet.
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Dec 15, 2016 03:57
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FuriousxGeorge posted:only reason ellison looks good is putin hasn't hacked him yet. Ellison doesn't have the 20 years of baggage that Hillary had even before the hacks started.
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Dec 15, 2016 04:45
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Nevvy Z posted:This is a gross misuse of the word incompetent. how so?
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Dec 15, 2016 04:48
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FuriousxGeorge posted:only reason ellison looks good is putin hasn't hacked him yet. Well, we know Ellison has good opinions on Israel. Presumably if he has any spooky skeletons we'll be finding out shortly from our good friends in the Middle East.
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Dec 15, 2016 04:50
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Condiv posted:how so? Can't fail/Can only be failed
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Dec 15, 2016 04:51
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Shbobdb posted:LOL. Bernie was hilariously unprepared for a national campaign. He was a safe "joke" candidate to placate the left wing of the party as part of a "fair contest". That he was a major threat to Hillary's coronation was seen as an insult by Clintonistas but was a warning to everyone else. You say this unironically given that Trump had a terrible campaign and almost no ground game, yet beat Clinton. Red text validated.
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Dec 15, 2016 04:55
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Zikan posted:quote: Lmao okay, decouple cause and effect from any expectations in US politics plz. Sethex fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Dec 15, 2016 |
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Dec 15, 2016 05:01
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Condiv posted:i think you'll find if you read this article that she lost because she was an idiot Well then I guess you can stop pretending the problem is the 'neoliberals' you want to purge. Shageletic posted:Come on Nezzy, you can't argue that the energy of the party isn't with Sanders right now. What are you even arguing. Oh for sure the party went full on far left progressive overnight, as evidenced by... John_A_Tallon posted:Now you need to call him a racist. Stick to your programming! Maybe it is you who is the sheep.
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Dec 15, 2016 05:13
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Doctor Butts posted:Well then I guess you can stop pretending the problem is the 'neoliberals' you want to purge. Neoliberal runs campaign like a corporation. Fails to win populist support required not only for swing states, but previously "safe" states. Somehow not the Democratic Party Nominee's fault. Got it.
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Dec 15, 2016 05:20
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Doctor Butts posted:Well then I guess you can stop pretending the problem is the 'neoliberals' you want to purge. why? they were at the helm alongside hillary
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Dec 15, 2016 05:21
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One thing I remember from both the primaries and general election is Clinton supporters* talking about how much of a "policy wonk" she was, in the sense that it gave her nerd cred or something. What was up with that? Is there any reason to think that she's some sort of "policy expert" to an unusual degree among politicians, or was this just a perception based upon the fact that she wasn't good at public speaking ("she's awkward with speaking therefore she must be a policy savant" or something). I'm not asking this rhetorically, I'm genuinely curious if this had any concrete basis. My personal feeling is that being a policy expert/"wonk" (dear lord I hate the word "wonk") is not as important in a President as having a general ideology/vision that points in a positive direction, since ultimately the President isn't the one who is personally writing legislation. Also, being an "expert" in policy is only useful if the policies you're knowledgable about point in a direction voters agree with. *Just to avoid confusion, I voted for her in the general
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Dec 15, 2016 05:23
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Ytlaya posted:One thing I remember from both the primaries and general election is Clinton supporters* talking about how much of a "policy wonk" she was, in the sense that it gave her nerd cred or something. What was up with that? Is there any reason to think that she's some sort of "policy expert" to an unusual degree among politicians, or was this just a perception based upon the fact that she wasn't good at public speaking ("she's awkward with speaking therefore she must be a policy savant" or something). it probably has as much founding as her "electability"
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Dec 15, 2016 05:25
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Sethex posted:You say this unironically given that Trump had a terrible campaign and almost no ground game, yet beat Clinton. Yes, Trump didn't emerge from an intensely competive field. Hillbots on the March!
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Dec 15, 2016 05:25
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Sethex posted:Lmao okay, decouple cause and effect from any expectations in US politics plz. The county Flint is in went hard for Clinton, for what it's worth. Michigan, like most of the Midwest, is incredibly segregated and political power is concentrated in the rich, white suburbs. That's how Flint ended up with an unelected debt management council that chose to switch to tainted water.
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Dec 15, 2016 05:26
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"We aren't idiots," said the neoliberal idiots who lost an election to Donald Trump.
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Dec 15, 2016 05:26
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FuriousxGeorge posted:"We aren't idiots," said the neoliberal idiots who lost an election to Donald Trump. Technically correct, the best kind of correct.
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Dec 15, 2016 05:32
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Ytlaya posted:One thing I remember from both the primaries and general election is Clinton supporters* talking about how much of a "policy wonk" she was, in the sense that it gave her nerd cred or something. What was up with that? Is there any reason to think that she's some sort of "policy expert" to an unusual degree among politicians, or was this just a perception based upon the fact that she wasn't good at public speaking ("she's awkward with speaking therefore she must be a policy savant" or something). Paul Ryan is also a "policy wonk" while also being the emptiest of empty suits. It's a signifier for "tool of the establishment"
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Dec 15, 2016 05:39
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