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PT6A posted:Here's my hot take: Latinx people who are white will eventually, probably soon, be accepted as white, and Latinx people who are black, mestizo, indigenous, or biracial will continue to be not-white and treated like poo poo. A white person who says "all white people are terrible" isn't examining their own actions and attitudes. If they were, they would be saying, "I am terrible". When a white person says all white people are terrible, it's at best just a meaningless, powerless complaint. Traffic sucks, movie tickets are too expensive, white people are terrible. At worst it's performative self-flagellation. Look at me, in my wokeness I can see the indelible stain of whiteness on my soul.
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Dec 15, 2016 18:02
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Guy Goodbody posted:A white person who says "all white people are terrible" isn't examining their own actions and attitudes. If they were, they would be saying, "I am terrible". When a white person says all white people are terrible, it's at best just a meaningless, powerless complaint. Traffic sucks, movie tickets are too expensive, white people are terrible. At worst it's performative self-flagellation. Look at me, in my wokeness I can see the indelible stain of whiteness on my soul. Yes. I see this all the time with friends who will happily say "God I hate cops" or react to politics with a "man white people are really loving up the country", but then somehow they are totally in favor of education finance reform (despite disproportionately helping white schools) and don't seem to think it's a problem that they can get away with illegally tinted windows on their car while this is an excuse for the police to pull over and harass a black person (I actually got called an SJW in real life by a coworker for pointing that one out, lol). There's a difference between recognizing, in general, that white people are loving everyone else over and recognizing that you, in particular, are not the one innocent white bystander who is totally not contributing to the problem. This seems like an intractable problem in terms of getting grown adults to recognize this about themselves. You can help kids not think this way, but it would involve actually teaching the history of race in America in a far more nuanced and critical way than "Lincoln freed the slaves, MLK said nice words that got them rights, and now Jay-Z is super rich go America!"
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Dec 15, 2016 18:10
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Hey you know what would be loving cool is if people shut up about white people and latinx people who are not black people in this thread about black people. You guys literally have the entire rest of the site to go be white and have your white feelings on. We get exactly two threads, and they are both poo poo up constantly. Actual loving #notallwhites in here, are you people loving serious. Pretty tired of hearing how Negromancer's the arbiter of blackness too. Not a Step posted:You will *never* get white people to engage en masse in the way you want, no matter what you do, because they don't have to and nothing will ever change that. You might get *some* to come to your side, but odds are they're going to be obnoxious in other ways and be equally incapable of connecting with whites as a whole. If you invoke racial identity eventually they will remember that the white racial identity is 'in control of everything and doesn't have to listen to anyone else'. Shut this nonsense. Don't come in here and "uh" at black posters.
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Dec 15, 2016 18:18
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:arbiter of blackness This is a pretty cool loving name though.
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Dec 15, 2016 18:21
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:Yes. I see this all the time with friends who will happily say "God I hate cops" or react to politics with a "man white people are really loving up the country", but then somehow they are totally in favor of education finance reform (despite disproportionately helping white schools) and don't seem to think it's a problem that they can get away with illegally tinted windows on their car while this is an excuse for the police to pull over and harass a black person (I actually got called an SJW in real life by a coworker for pointing that one out, lol). Yes. There's a difference between "Men are fuckin trash" and "Men have historically been trash, and I have contributed to being trash due to patriarchal standards placed upon me as a man, to which I must unlearn if I want to try to make the world a better place for 51% of the earths population I may potentially interact with." A lot of people don't take that second step into owning their privilege out loud and how they play a role in it. They just do the brownie points first step of agreeing with PoC when we say how white people are the worst (y'all are, y'all apply the bar of soap directly to your skin instead of using washcloths and loofahs, and that's not okay).
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Dec 15, 2016 18:22
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BROCK LESBIAN posted:This is a pretty cool loving name though. Next name change incoming!
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Dec 15, 2016 18:23
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:There's a difference between recognizing, in general, that white people are loving everyone else over and recognizing that you, in particular, are not the one innocent white bystander who is totally not contributing to the problem. There is only so much any one individual can do though. Vote Democrat where possible (still flawed, since all of the non-Presidential elections at the local level are filled with unopposed incumbent Republicans so I end up only actually casting a vote for Presidential races, but better than ever giving Republicans any consideration)? Done. Call out family and friends whenever they do something racist that even my dumb white perspective sees as racist? I do this as much as I can (whenever I see it happening, though I still have to question just how much I'm missing). That is about all that can actually be done at an individual level. Participating in protests is at best seen as being condescending because you're the white guy protesting with black people trying to be the white savior/martyr, so you're hosed for wanting to help that way (assuming for even one second that peaceful protests are at all effective given how nothing has been accomplished by peaceful protests in recent memory). You get the same reception if you ask your local activist groups what you can do to help. Hell, even asking what you can do gets a "gently caress you, gently caress off, you're the problem" response and it's no real wonder that most people eventually throw up their hands and say "Ok, gently caress you too, then, I'm going back to focusing on just my personal life." because it's very easy to do. Yeah, most of the time when a white person says "all white people are terrible" it's a meaningless powerless complaint because the specific white individual that says it is living in a meaningless, powerless position in life. By virtue of white privilege I make just enough money to support myself and buy the occasional book/keep internet service going for entertainment, but coming from the poor segment of the white population it isn't as if I have open access to pathways to get Rich. My life is about as good as it's going to get, but considering how I don't have to worry about getting murdered by cops just for going about my business that's still pretty good--and that's where my problem with it comes in. That expectation should be normal for everyone of every race, but I have no real idea of what I can do on a personal level to effect that change. Yes, my life is better than literally any PoC simply because I have lighter colored skin. What can I do about it, though? Why am I wrong for telling a concern/tone troll that their No True Scotsman argument about White America is wrong?
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Dec 15, 2016 18:38
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negromancer posted:Next name change incoming! No no no, custom av and title. "Negromancer, Arbiter of Blackness" has a nice flow to it. poo poo, now I have to find an avatar that makes that work.
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Dec 15, 2016 18:38
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Raerlynn posted:No no no, custom av and title. "Negromancer, Arbiter of Blackness" has a nice flow to it. Probably find something in the whitest of white things, Warhammer fanart.
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Dec 15, 2016 18:42
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Raerlynn posted:No no no, custom av and title. "Negromancer, Arbiter of Blackness" has a nice flow to it. Maybe some kind of color swatches?
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Dec 15, 2016 18:45
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Probably find something in the whitest of white things, Warhammer fanart. 
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Dec 15, 2016 18:47
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This reminds me. Someone on Twitter was posting screenshots from nazi fucks saying to make fake black accounts to sow discord and dissent. I'm honestly assuming it's the same here.
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Dec 15, 2016 18:59
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Guy Goodbody posted:A white person who says "all white people are terrible" isn't examining their own actions and attitudes. If they were, they would be saying, "I am terrible". When a white person says all white people are terrible, it's at best just a meaningless, powerless complaint. Traffic sucks, movie tickets are too expensive, white people are terrible. At worst it's performative self-flagellation. Look at me, in my wokeness I can see the indelible stain of whiteness on my soul. Yeah, it's a verbal safety pin. "All white people are terrible" is a misnomer because all people are equal. The ratio of terrible white people to non-terrible white people is the exact same as terrible black people to non-terrible black people. A human is a human.
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Dec 15, 2016 19:00
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foobardog posted:This reminds me. Someone on Twitter was posting screenshots from nazi fucks saying to make fake black accounts to sow discord and dissent. I'm honestly assuming it's the same here. yeah thats basically whats been going on with the avatars. we've talked about this in the misogynoir thread too. Some racists (that we probably ran out of here) are all up in their feelings.
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Dec 15, 2016 19:05
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Koalas March posted:yeah thats basically whats been going on with the avatars. we've talked about this in the misogynoir thread too. Some racists (that we probably ran out of here) are all up in their feelings. It's kind of funny because you can tell they don't really understand what people are talking about so they come off tone-deaf. They're hateful, but they aren't good at it. biracial bear for uncut posted:Yeah, most of the time when a white person says "all white people are terrible" it's a meaningless powerless complaint because the specific white individual that says it is living in a meaningless, powerless position in life. I think there's an an argument to be made for white supremacy valuing whiteness more than white people and white people having much more ability to keep their head down and do fine than to stick their head up and do something, but unless I am flat out told such, I don't think this is the time or place. TB's right in my estimation, and I deleted a longer post earlier because of it. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Dec 15, 2016 |
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Dec 15, 2016 19:11
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Koalas March posted:yeah thats basically whats been going on with the avatars. we've talked about this in the misogynoir thread too. Some racists (that we probably ran out of here) are all up in their feelings. It's not enough that we segregate the black people off to their own threads, we also have to poo poo all over them while doing it!
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Dec 15, 2016 19:18
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I'm just so surprised that people think Putin influencing the gently caress out the US elections is just so so impossible. Like it's beyond belief to them a master KGB spy who seized control of his own country can't manipulate a bunch of racist chucklefucks who think learning and logic is for libtard cucks. And I honestly don't understand where this doubt comes from? Is it white American exceptionalism?
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Dec 15, 2016 19:20
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negromancer posted:I'm just so surprised that people think Putin influencing the gently caress out the US elections is just so so impossible. Conservative obsession with winning, liberal obsession with respectability.
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Dec 15, 2016 19:23
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negromancer posted:I'm just so surprised that people think Putin influencing the gently caress out the US elections is just so so impossible. The idea that you need a Russian mastermind to trick Americans into voting for a racist demagogue feels more like exceptionalism to me to be honest.
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Dec 15, 2016 19:26
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negromancer posted:I'm just so surprised that people think Putin influencing the gently caress out the US elections is just so so impossible. Part white American-exceptionalism and part whatever you'd call being unable to go back and make the argument after spending so much time talking about how it was impossible to rig the election.
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Dec 15, 2016 19:33
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botany posted:The idea that you need a Russian mastermind to trick Americans into voting for a racist demagogue feels more like exceptionalism to me to be honest. True enough. It's the fact that there's so much doubt that a country that has it clearly in their current best interests to undermine American hegemony would give a nudge to electing someone wildly embarrassing to our position in the world is somehow a bridge too far.
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Dec 15, 2016 19:35
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It's not really that hard to manipulate an election tbh. US has been doing it to other countries for decades.
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Dec 15, 2016 19:39
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Rush Limbo posted:The thing is, though, that "whiteness" isn't really a designation of race, it's a designation of power, and who has it. I'm not white. I can pass as white though, and I've had to because otherwise things in life would be closed off to me, often for good. I can't really openly practice my culture because of this. Many of the things that pass for normal in white society are completely denied to me.
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Dec 15, 2016 19:42
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Dexo posted:It's not really that hard to manipulate an election tbh. US has been doing it to other countries for decades. To be fair though, we were more like a hammer than a scalpel. It's hella easy to manipulate an election if you can pretty much kill or silence any dissenting voices without repercussions.
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Dec 15, 2016 19:45
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To be fair there's some internal policy paper from the late 90's Putin government that specifically outlines the long term goals of Russia should be to do everything it can to break up the EU, specially get the UK out by stoking right wing nationalism. It also says the best way to weaken the US is to support white supremacists and nationalists while also sowing rumours and misinformation to discredit the democratic system and people's faith in the government as an institution to pave the way for more radical politicians to gain power and gently caress everything up. From the US to the EU Russia has being financing and supporting racist right wing nationalists and pushing out effective propaganda via RT and it's troll army. Putin's troll machine was in full gear on reddit and 4chan and all those lovely places going pro-trump and pro-russia. They basically created this "Hillary wants cold war with Russia, Trump wants peace! Hillary will start WWIII and drag USA into dangerous global conflicts, Trump just wants to make america great again" narrative from whole cloth too. Russian propaganda is excellent because they manage to court and target both right wing nationalist white supremacists and chomsky style "america bad!" leftists at the same time often with the same propaganda and get the racists out voting and the leftists staying at home. Throughout the entire election cycle Russian disinformation was 100% on-message that Hillary is the establishment war-mongering imperialist. That's just their propaganda, then there's the actual hacking to help fuel their anti-hillary campaign. The election was very tight, I would not at all discount Russia's effects or underestimate how deep their propaganda and disinformation network goes.
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Dec 15, 2016 19:45
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Baronjutter posted:To be fair there's some internal policy paper from the late 90's Putin government that specifically outlines the long term goals of Russia should be to do everything it can to break up the EU, specially get the UK out by stoking right wing nationalism. It also says the best way to weaken the US is to support white supremacists and nationalists while also sowing rumours and misinformation to discredit the democratic system and people's faith in the government as an institution to pave the way for more radical politicians to gain power and gently caress everything up. From the US to the EU Russia has being financing and supporting racist right wing nationalists and pushing out effective propaganda via RT and it's troll army. Putin's troll machine was in full gear on reddit and 4chan and all those lovely places going pro-trump and pro-russia. They basically created this "Hillary wants cold war with Russia, Trump wants peace! Hillary will start WWIII and drag USA into dangerous global conflicts, Trump just wants to make america great again" narrative from whole cloth too. Russian propaganda is excellent because they manage to court and target both right wing nationalist white supremacists and chomsky style "america bad!" leftists at the same time often with the same propaganda and get the racists out voting and the leftists staying at home. Throughout the entire election cycle Russian disinformation was 100% on-message that Hillary is the establishment war-mongering imperialist. That's just their propaganda, then there's the actual hacking to help fuel their anti-hillary campaign. That's what I'm saying. Russia is in a lot of ways still a superpower. Obviously not as a major player as they were pre-USSR breakup, but they didn't just fall from number 2 to number 100 in the world. Their intelligence services were always top-tier.
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Dec 15, 2016 19:51
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negromancer posted:I'm just so surprised that people think Putin influencing the gently caress out the US elections is just so so impossible. I really think it doesn't go further than "we won the Cold War so they must have bad spies".
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Dec 15, 2016 20:02
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foobardog posted:I really think it doesn't go further than "we won the Cold War so they must have bad spies". Which makes zero sense and shows literally fuckall understanding of the cold war beyond "the USA is awesome and they aren't hence why we won", which circles back to the original question of exceptionalism.
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Dec 15, 2016 20:05
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foobardog posted:This reminds me. Someone on Twitter was posting screenshots from nazi fucks saying to make fake black accounts to sow discord and dissent. I'm honestly assuming it's the same here. Was it this? https://twitter.com/thelollcano/status/809169591914135560 Those accounts are way easy to spot.
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Dec 15, 2016 20:47
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Wiccan Wasteland posted:Was it this? Nope! It was a how-to guide: https://twitter.com/daniecal/status/808758514734796800
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Dec 15, 2016 20:52
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Wiccan Wasteland posted:Was it this? Yeah, amazing that people who go out of their way to avoid any interaction with blackness outside of what's pretty much pushed by mass media can't even do a passable presentation of it. Meanewhile black people can code switch like you wouldn't believe. My work voice is amazingly white lol e: The white people got all the time in the world to do this the same ones telling black people they need to get jobs. Comedy.
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Dec 15, 2016 20:53
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Wiccan Wasteland posted:Was it this? I feel like this might actually be more racist than just a bog-standard white supremacist account. Spreading racial hatred and revealing their stereotyped assumption that black people are inarticulate gangsters who can't string together coherent sentences.
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Dec 15, 2016 20:53
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:I PM'd FactsAreUseless because while I'm glad to take one on the chin if I make a lovely post, I feel like this one is just straight up harassing me based on my actual heritage and I'm feeling more and more upset about it as I sit here. Like some faceless, outside-the-thread racist, is calling me an Uncle Tom because I'm not the right kind of mixed-race for them I guess? Sorry my dad was pale and that passed on to me? I brought up this very issue in QCS and all I got for my troubles was this crappy redtext. Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Hey you know what would be loving cool is if people shut up about white people and latinx people who are not black people in this thread about black people. You guys literally have the entire rest of the site to go be white and have your white feelings on. We get exactly two threads, and they are both poo poo up constantly. An accurate recreation of the black American experience. 90s Solo Cup fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Dec 15, 2016 |
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Dec 15, 2016 20:53
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Baronjutter posted:To be fair there's some internal policy paper from the late 90's Putin government that specifically outlines the long term goals of Russia should be to do everything it can to break up the EU, specially get the UK out by stoking right wing nationalism. It also says the best way to weaken the US is to support white supremacists and nationalists while also sowing rumours and misinformation to discredit the democratic system and people's faith in the government as an institution to pave the way for more radical politicians to gain power and gently caress everything up. From the US to the EU Russia has being financing and supporting racist right wing nationalists and pushing out effective propaganda via RT and it's troll army. Putin's troll machine was in full gear on reddit and 4chan and all those lovely places going pro-trump and pro-russia. They basically created this "Hillary wants cold war with Russia, Trump wants peace! Hillary will start WWIII and drag USA into dangerous global conflicts, Trump just wants to make america great again" narrative from whole cloth too. Russian propaganda is excellent because they manage to court and target both right wing nationalist white supremacists and chomsky style "america bad!" leftists at the same time often with the same propaganda and get the racists out voting and the leftists staying at home. Throughout the entire election cycle Russian disinformation was 100% on-message that Hillary is the establishment war-mongering imperialist. That's just their propaganda, then there's the actual hacking to help fuel their anti-hillary campaign. That's fascinating, seriously, but it is not about loving black people. This thread isn't a secret underground USPOL replacement. Make a thread about this, it's interesting, but everyone stop using this thread like it's just empty space you can take over for whatever you want, because poo poo doesn't automatically belong to you just because you like it, white people. And gently caress you gfc for chasing all the black people out for insufficient darkitude and then encouraging derails like this.
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Dec 15, 2016 21:39
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:And gently caress you gfc for chasing all the black people out for insufficient darkitude. Yes: that is a real dick move.
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Dec 15, 2016 22:27
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I was a little surprised to hear that Roof got convicted, but there's still time for the sentencing to be terrible, I suppose. After Malhuer, I don't have a whole lot of faith in juries. Keeshhound fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Dec 15, 2016 |
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Dec 15, 2016 23:32
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:That's fascinating, seriously, but it is not about loving black people. This thread isn't a secret underground USPOL replacement. Make a thread about this, it's interesting, but everyone stop using this thread like it's just empty space you can take over for whatever you want, because poo poo doesn't automatically belong to you just because you like it, white people. Yeah, because that's what I was saying all along, right? Couldn't possibly be the case that you misinterpreted anything.
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Dec 16, 2016 00:50
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Back on track: Is it just me or are cinematic universes getting significantly blacker? I mean the MCU went from pretty much everyone being white, to having more black people than I would have ever anticipated actually getting screen time and not being present for 3 minutes then dying.
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Dec 16, 2016 00:52
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negromancer posted:Yeah, because that's what I was saying all along, right? Couldn't possibly be the case that you misinterpreted anything. This poo poo is written down, dude. Don't even try that poo poo. And you can thank me for blacking up movies because that's literally my loving job, even though I'm tainted with the cracker blood
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Dec 16, 2016 01:00
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People flipped out that Idris Elba played Heimdall but I thought he was metal as gently caress in the role.
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Dec 16, 2016 01:04
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