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playing star wars racer on the dreamcast good game
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Dec 15, 2016 22:33
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And wow, another telling bit. They used the green colors to indicate which ledges are ones you can do the mantle on. So they had to desaturate the rest of the colors on the level to make sure they pop out, explaining why it's all dull silver.
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Dec 15, 2016 22:34
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Help Im Alive posted:The more I hear about d44m the less I want to play it There's a neat game hidden in there but it needed a lot more work IMO. Or someone to mod it and make it more interesting. As an aside how possible is that? Could I make the really really cool Doom I think is partially in that new game?
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Dec 15, 2016 22:37
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In Training posted:There is a pretty interesting bit that they wound up locking all the doors because they couldn't let AI chase you through the level because it tanked performance on consoles. Which is why it's all so heavily gated and segmented. Yeah, I thought that was interesting. I guess the choice was probably between locking you in rooms or making the AI leash and I suppose they chose the one that led to the most shooting. In Training posted:And wow, another telling bit. They used the green colors to indicate which ledges are ones you can do the mantle on. So they had to desaturate the rest of the colors on the level to make sure they pop out, explaining why it's all dull silver. I don't remember them saying they had to desaturate everything else. If anything, bright green probably helped to ensure it would pop in the dull silver UAC environments as well as the reddish Mars ones and the darker Hell ones. Also, I haven't played DO4M yet, but I'm curious what you'd consider to be the major issues with its level design. Not because I have any argument, I'm just interested in level design.
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Dec 15, 2016 22:38
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Help Im Alive posted:The more I hear about d44m the less I want to play it New Doom is fine, if a bit reliant on monster spawner rooms and having the questionable bits where you are locked in a room to be talked at. If you want a fun and varied single player campaign with little fat that needs to be trimmed, I heartily recommend Titanfall 2.
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Dec 15, 2016 22:42
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One thing that's definitely true is that loving LoL ad on youtube with the high pitched girl is the most annoying ad I've come across this year making me want to play it even less.I don't even know what points she makes just everything about the ad grates on me because I'm not the target 13 year old girl market or whoever the gently caress that is aimed at.
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Dec 15, 2016 22:43
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Harrow posted:Yeah, I thought that was interesting. I guess the choice was probably between locking you in rooms or making the AI leash and I suppose they chose the one that led to the most shooting. It's a game of nothing but combat arenas. It's the same exact thing over and over again for the entire 10 hour campaign. Even in the parts where it looks more open, the gating just means there's zero surprise; it also makes the existence of red/yellow etc card keys baffling. Clearly they're a throwback to the originals but they don't play the same role, because every day is locked until you kill every enemy anyway, it's just sometimes you find a blue key card after you kill every enemy. There's no density of the original games, because there's no real doubling back or exploring the space. You just move down the hallway to the next arena. The arenas themselves can be fun, and the combat they built is enjoyable, it's just they get very tiresome without anything else to support it. Also having no choice to not kill everything is the #1 reason I don't like the game as much as I could. I find it a lot more fun trying to run past enemies than killing all of them.
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Dec 15, 2016 22:44
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Ostentatious posted:playing star wars racer on the dreamcast The one on N64 was better, play that one.
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Dec 15, 2016 22:44
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When people say they don't like mobas because of the community I just thank god that I don't give a gently caress about the community cause I only ever play with my friends against bots while we all chat friendly-like and shoot the poo poo
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Dec 15, 2016 22:47
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Cavelcade posted:One thing that's definitely true is that loving LoL ad on youtube with the high pitched girl is the most annoying ad I've come across this year making me want to play it even less.I don't even know what points she makes just everything about the ad grates on me because I'm not the target 13 year old girl market or whoever the gently caress that is aimed at. I don't think the 13 year old girl market is the target op.
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Dec 15, 2016 22:47
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In Training posted:It's a game of nothing but combat arenas. It's the same exact thing over and over again for the entire 10 hour campaign. Even in the parts where it looks more open, the gating just means there's zero surprise; it also makes the existence of red/yellow etc card keys baffling. Clearly they're a throwback to the originals but they don't play the same role, because every day is locked until you kill every enemy anyway, it's just sometimes you find a blue key card after you kill every enemy. There's no density of the original games, because there's no real doubling back or exploring the space. You just move down the hallway to the next arena. The arenas themselves can be fun, and the combat they built is enjoyable, it's just they get very tiresome without anything else to support it.  I liked the new Doom. I liked killing things and finding runes and upgrading guns and moving on. I haven't played it since I beat it and it probably wasn't worth what I paid, but I still liked the experience. I saw they added an arcade mode, and I think I'd like to go back and give that a shot when I have nothing else to play (never). e: I'm not knocking that the level design isn't what it was in the original games, but it seems designed to keep pushing you forwards. There are some stages, like the refinery, that are more open and allow you to explore different areas in different orders, and they include secrets and hidden levels to find or walk past as you wish. You don't have to run against every wall to the level mashing a button to see if there's a hidden wall though. Each game is a product of its time. LawfulWaffle fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Dec 15, 2016 |
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Dec 15, 2016 22:51
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chumbler posted:I don't think the 13 year old girl market is the target op. I ain't a marketing guru, I'm just a guy confused by an ad.
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Dec 15, 2016 22:53
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In Training posted:It's a game of nothing but combat arenas. It's the same exact thing over and over again for the entire 10 hour campaign. Even in the parts where it looks more open, the gating just means there's zero surprise; it also makes the existence of red/yellow etc card keys baffling. Clearly they're a throwback to the originals but they don't play the same role, because every day is locked until you kill every enemy anyway, it's just sometimes you find a blue key card after you kill every enemy. There's no density of the original games, because there's no real doubling back or exploring the space. You just move down the hallway to the next arena. The arenas themselves can be fun, and the combat they built is enjoyable, it's just they get very tiresome without anything else to support it. It's worth noting that In Training has not actually played the game which you can tell by the fact they claimed there are no levels in Doom 4 where you backtrack or explore space.
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Dec 15, 2016 22:58
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In Training posted:The arenas themselves can be fun, and the combat they built is enjoyable, it's just they get very tiresome without anything else to support it. I suspect this is what O'Dwyer's talking about when he says the game has good level design. They definitely focus on the individual arenas when discussing how they designed things, and everything else seems like it's there to get you from arena to arena (while also hiding secrets).
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Dec 15, 2016 23:00
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ImpAtom posted:It's worth noting that In Training has not actually played the game which you can tell by the fact they claimed there are no levels in Doom 4 where you backtrack or explore space. Ive beaten the game actually
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Dec 15, 2016 23:00
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In Training posted:Ive beaten the game actually Then why are you making the objectively false claim that every level is a linear hallway when is easily disproven by pointing to the stages that are not? Like, yeah, some of the areas (especially near the end) are pretty much straight fighting fests but there are multiple stages with multiple paths, hidden secrets and so-on.
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Dec 15, 2016 23:01
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in training is laying down extreme truth about most overrated game of the year, doom people were so ready for it to fail that a decent game became goty for defying expectations. its a very shallow experience imo. i enjoyed 2/3rds of it but beating it was a chore.
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Dec 15, 2016 23:03
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Just because Lurdiak admitted to yelling at a game without playing it can we stop accusing everyone with the vaguest criticism of having not played a game? It's happened twice now and it bothers the crap out of me.
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Dec 15, 2016 23:04
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ImpAtom posted:Then why are you making the objectively false claim that every level is a linear hallway when is easily disproven by pointing to the stages that are not? Like, yeah, some of the areas (especially near the end) are pretty much straight fighting fests but there are multiple stages with multiple paths, hidden secrets and so-on. Theres two that I can think of, the early level with the 3 gorenests and then the one hell level with the two different teleporters. In the latter case its basically just a hallway though because you choose one of two paths, go down the arenas and they just warp you back to where you started and you do the other one.
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Dec 15, 2016 23:04
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I don't hate the game at all. I was just expecting something much greater after hearing so much praise about it.
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Dec 15, 2016 23:06
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Dec 15, 2016 23:06
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Phantasium posted:Just because Lurdiak admitted to yelling at a game without playing it can we stop accusing everyone with the vaguest criticism of having not played a game? It's happened twice now and it bothers the crap out of me. We should never let Lurdiak forget that though. In Training posted:I don't hate the game at all. I was just expecting something much greater after hearing so much praise about it. It really sounds like you hate the game
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Dec 15, 2016 23:07
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The best and oldest stage in new Doom. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wwah3Y1hBk
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Dec 15, 2016 23:08
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In Training posted:The DOOM doc is pretty interesting, especially the second episode where they go nearly frame by frame through the intro up to the elevator to the surface. I like how they talk about how they used the first 2 minutes t establish that they're going to toss aside exposition, narrative etc in favor of gameplay. The creatives are like "nobody needs justification for a doom game" and then walk all that back multiple times in the rest of the game where they constantly lock you in rooms and make you listen to people drone on about irrelevant crap. I'm glad I'm not the only person who felt this way because the doom 4 thread shat on me a lot when I revealed my controversial opinion that doom 4's story execution is poo poo and I would've preferred literally none to the execution we got.
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Dec 15, 2016 23:10
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Phantasium posted:Just because Lurdiak admitted to yelling at a game without playing it can we stop accusing everyone with the vaguest criticism of having not played a game? It's happened twice now and it bothers the crap out of me. Am I allowed to wonder if CitB has played a Musou game or a MOBA?
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Dec 15, 2016 23:13
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CJacobs posted:I'm glad I'm not the only person who felt this way because the doom 4 thread shat on me a lot when I revealed my controversial opinion that doom 4's story execution is poo poo and I would've preferred literally none to the execution we got. I wonder if everyone's focusing entirely on the first part of the game when they talk about how the game doesn't tie you down with story, then. I haven't played it yet, but I was under the impression that it really tried as hard as it could not to lock you down and make you listen to NPCs talking about stuff, and everyone points to the beginning of the game, throwing away the monitor, all of that as examples.
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Dec 15, 2016 23:13
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"For the 1000th time, I am super evil, do you not get it yet, I am evil and here is why I am evil, I'm evil Doomguy", samuel hayden said to doomguy, who was busy crouchjumping on the furniture looking for easter eggs to pass the time until the door unlocked and he could leaveHarrow posted:I wonder if everyone's focusing entirely on the first part of the game when they talk about how the game doesn't tie you down with story, then. I haven't played it yet, but I was under the impression that it really tried as hard as it could not to lock you down and make you listen to NPCs talking about stuff, and everyone points to the beginning of the game, throwing away the monitor, all of that as examples. They skirt around it in a clever way precisely 1 time at the very start, and then every other time when it's not a voiceover log playing, you're locked in a room listening to someone talk at you. They're not even skippable.
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Dec 15, 2016 23:14
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codenameFANGIO posted:We should never let Lurdiak forget that though. Im trying not to sound that way, because its something I like enough that I wish it was better. Because theres lots of FPS game I just dont give a poo poo about, and most FPS games made in the last 10 to 15 years suck rear end. But this game does lots of stuff right, like you don't get killed in two seconds, you have actual mobility, the guns look cool and are fun to use. But if this becomes the model of imitators for the next 10 years again a la COD4 Im still not going to be able to enjoy the genre and thats a bummer, I wish there were more fun FPS games. Like if you could combine Titanfall 2 and DOOM 2016 that would be my ideal game. And cut out all the cutscene/dialogue
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Dec 15, 2016 23:14
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i wish the game actively prevented you from hearing the story. like the first screen destruction thing that everyone loves kept happening, like the robot dude keeps trying to call you and you keep doing crazy poo poo to not listen until you get to his office and tear of his loving head instead of bunny hopping around his desk for 3 minutes while he gets to talk crap nobody cares about. the game started with a great attitude but became half life 2 at the end. in terms of gameplay, i'd rather play painkiller. i think its way more intense and fun but to each their own.
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Dec 15, 2016 23:15
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In Training posted:Theres two that I can think of, the early level with the 3 gorenests and then the one hell level with the two different teleporters. In the latter case its basically just a hallway though because you choose one of two paths, go down the arenas and they just warp you back to where you started and you do the other one. There's multiple levels with opens paths and hidden areas. (Including the various hidden Classic maps.) They're not all mandatory but neither were they in the original Doom. Going "Oh, it's just linear hallways to monster arenas" is pretty disingenuous. And even if it was that isn't hand-in-hand with bad level design because it depends on the goals and Doom's goals are fairly straightforward in terms of creating combat arenas (including power-ups) for long extended fights. And if that isn't your bag it's cool but making snide comments about how ~terrible~ the level design is because you can't run past every fight in the game is ridiculous.
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Dec 15, 2016 23:15
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Harrow posted:I wonder if everyone's focusing entirely on the first part of the game when they talk about how the game doesn't tie you down with story, then. I haven't played it yet, but I was under the impression that it really tried as hard as it could not to lock you down and make you listen to NPCs talking about stuff, and everyone points to the beginning of the game, throwing away the monitor, all of that as examples. It happens almost once a level through the rest of the game, sometime for minutes at a time. Even in that foundry clip above, theres more dialogue there than the entire campaigns of Doom 1/2/Quake 1 combined, and thats just exposition about an upgrade system
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Dec 15, 2016 23:15
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CJacobs posted:They skirt around it in a clever way precisely 1 time at the very start, and then every other time when it's not a voiceover log playing, you're locked in a room listening to someone talk at you. They're not even skippable. The fact people keep pointing to the office scene is exactly why this poo poo is dumb. They point to one scene which lasts maybe 3 minutes and go "See, now the game is half-life 2!" Yes, Doom has a plot. A plot that for probably fewer than 10 minutes of its 10 hour running time pulls the Half-Life 2 trick of locking you in a place. They probably should have avoided that but acting like the game is suddenly nonstop cutscenes is dumb.
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Dec 15, 2016 23:18
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ImpAtom posted:There's multiple levels with opens paths and hidden areas. (Including the various hidden Classic maps.) They're not all mandatory but neither were they in the original Doom. Going "Oh, it's just linear hallways to monster arenas" is pretty disingenuous. And even if it was that isn't hand-in-hand with bad level design because it depends on the goals and Doom's goals are fairly straightforward in terms of creating combat arenas (including power-ups) for long extended fights. And if that isn't your bag it's cool but making snide comments about how ~terrible~ the level design is because you can't run past every fight in the game is ridiculous. I understand that the whole game design is in service of the arenas, and theres little nooks to explore, but I'm also saying that the arenas are largely identical. Its a lot to hang your hat on for an entire campaign, and I personally grew tired of it quickly. I'm trying not be snide, I just think they could have done more with what they had.
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Dec 15, 2016 23:19
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I don't even mind cutscene/dialogue stuff honestly but it was really boring in Doom. It's insane to me that there was no prompt to rip that dude's brain out of his helmet when he's talking to you in his office. To be fair it's only like three or so times in the game when that poo poo happens but it's still really dull. Also the game could have easily used, like, twice as many boss fights because they were a treat
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Dec 15, 2016 23:19
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ImpAtom posted:The fact people keep pointing to the office scene is exactly why this poo poo is dumb. They point to one scene which lasts maybe 3 minutes and go "See, now the game is half-life 2!" thinking on it, half life 2 had a buggy so its actually not a good comparison between 2 overrated games i guess.
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Dec 15, 2016 23:20
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goferchan posted:I don't even mind cutscene/dialogue stuff honestly but it was really boring in Doom. It's insane to me that there was no prompt to rip that dude's brain out of his helmet when he's talking to you in his office. To be fair it's only like three or so times in the game when that poo poo happens but it's still really dull. Also the game could have easily used, like, twice as many boss fights because they were a treat The bosses were awesome as hell, yeah, and were great examples of how they used their movement stuff beyond double jumping up boxes. Because you had to navigate tells and attacks and patterns and dance around while plugging them with a billion shotgun shells and grenades, it was just killer landing the final shot and running up to trigger the glory kill
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Dec 15, 2016 23:21
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ImpAtom posted:The fact people keep pointing to the office scene is exactly why this poo poo is dumb. They point to one scene which lasts maybe 3 minutes and go "See, now the game is half-life 2!" The scene that is clearly an issue and out of touch with the game's philosophy is a thing people point to, yes. But if giving the clearest example isn't enough for you, here are some more: - The scene where Doomguy gets the first argent energy container and has to stand there listening to hayden/vega talk about the casualties on the base - The (admittedly pretty short) scene where you have to watch olivia pierce do her thing to overload the tower and then just kinda trundle away slowly into an elevator while you're stuck in a room that's like 2 Doomguys wide. This one is especially dumb because it happens again later on and Doomguy just loving stands there like a lemon while she unleashes the armies of hell on the world - The scene where hayden is telling you what to do with vega after destroying the cooling pumps- the game won't let you hit the button and just do it, you gotta wait for hayden to tell you All three of these have you in control when there's no reason to be, lock you in a room because there's stuff you have to look at (which isn't even a thing in the office example), and don't let you skip them in any way. The point of mentioning them is not that they are so egregious that they interrupt the flow of the game- which they do -the point is, they run directly against the game's and the developers' own philosophy of pushing the story out of the way. edit: And I'm sure there's more, those are just the 3 that stuck out to me on my recent replay of the game. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Dec 15, 2016 |
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Dec 15, 2016 23:23
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In Training posted:I understand that the whole game design is in service of the arenas, and theres little nooks to explore, but I'm also saying that the arenas are largely identical. Its a lot to hang your hat on for an entire campaign, and I personally grew tired of it quickly. I'm trying not be snide, I just think they could have done more with what they had. They're not largely identical. Most of them are in fact specifically designed in different ways with different gimmicks, something that Arcade mode really helps emphasize. Even just the positioning of hazards and platforms and power-ups can significantly change how an environment plays. At the end of the day they're all in the same and there's only so much variety to be had (and yeah, probably a bit long in the tooth by the end) but they're actually really solidly designed in terms of the actual gameplay and mechanics. I don't think anyone is obligated to like any game but it's frustrating when every time Doom 4 comes up it's met with "But did you know it's (complete insane exaggeration of its every flaw), guess you're all just a bunch of nerds who like overhyped poo poo!!" which seems to be the trend lately. CJacobs posted:The point is not that they are so egregious that they interrupt the flow of the game- which they do -the point is, they run directly against the game's and the developers' own philosophy of pushing the story out of the way. And again then are less than 10 minutes total of the entire game, at worst, and pointing at them as anything more than a minor flaw involves such an absurd level of hyperbole that it is cartoonish. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Dec 15, 2016 |
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Dec 15, 2016 23:24
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Let's talk about painkiller, a game I have not played but I watched an LP of it and it was made up of a lot of arenas and new doom sounds like it might have cribbed some of that kind of gameplay/level design
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Dec 15, 2016 23:27
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bloodychill posted:The one on N64 was better, play that one. isn't it the same one but the n64 one had worse graphics
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Dec 15, 2016 23:29
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