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Arcsquad12 posted:How is the music? I was bummed out when they said desplat had been replaced by giacchino Very ill-fitting for a Star Wars score. There's a central theme that he kept trying to tie to big moments and it's easily one of the worst things he's ever composed. I usually like Giacchino, even if he's kinda paint-by-numbers, but this is a really weak score that's just tonally wrong for Star Wars. I really hope he's not the go-to for the spinoffs or Williams' inevitable replacement. I'd pay good money to hear what little Desplat completed before leaving.
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Dec 16, 2016 11:04
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Very ill-fitting for a Star Wars score. There's a central theme that he kept trying to tie to big moments and it's easily one of the worst things he's ever composed. I usually like Giacchino, even if he's kinda paint-by-numbers, but this is a really weak score that's just tonally wrong for Star Wars. I really hope he's not the go-to for the spinoffs or Williams' inevitable replacement. It was pretty dreadful. It sounded like a Marvel film - there's a soundtrack but you don't really notice it and it isn't memorable and I can't imagine listening to it outside the film. It was made all the more apparent coming off the trailers who had some great music pieces.
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Dec 16, 2016 11:18
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Very ill-fitting for a Star Wars score. There's a central theme that he kept trying to tie to big moments and it's easily one of the worst things he's ever composed. I usually like Giacchino, even if he's kinda paint-by-numbers, but this is a really weak score that's just tonally wrong for Star Wars. I really hope he's not the go-to for the spinoffs or Williams' inevitable replacement. I'll give him credit, he only had about a month or so to write and compose the score. If he had been given much longer, I'd be right there with you, but considering the time limitations and everything else, I'd say he did a good job. If they go back to him and give him more time for another movie, then yeah, he needs to up his game at that point.
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Dec 16, 2016 15:33
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I'm honestly pretty surprised how negative ya'll are being. Maybe more people who liked it will show up later. Anyway, for my money, I thought all of the performances were really good, some of the best we've had in a SW movie in a long time. Donnie Yen has a lot of low-key humor and charm, Ben Mendelsohn is probably one of the richest villains we've had in one of these, and even Luna and Jones, who had some kind of thin/trite/confused "motivations" totally sold me on them with some great character moments. Are you all complaining about the performances/in the moment characterization, or did you want more backstory or just downtime or what?
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Dec 16, 2016 15:38
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CharlestheHammer posted:You are insanely defensive about your lovely heist movie. I don't follow, aren't heist movies all about the characters? Heat, Snatch, Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels, all of these spring to mind as both excellent heist movies and great character movies.
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Dec 16, 2016 15:41
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What you're saying is guy Ritchie should have directed rogue one. That would be a sight
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Dec 16, 2016 15:57
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Megachile posted:I'm honestly pretty surprised how negative ya'll are being. Maybe more people who liked it will show up later. Anyway, for my money, I thought all of the performances were really good, some of the best we've had in a SW movie in a long time. Donnie Yen has a lot of low-key humor and charm, Ben Mendelsohn is probably one of the richest villains we've had in one of these, and even Luna and Jones, who had some kind of thin/trite/confused "motivations" totally sold me on them with some great character moments. Are you all complaining about the performances/in the moment characterization, or did you want more backstory or just downtime or what? The major issue for me is that most of the characters either don't have character arcs or their arcs are so truncated as to feel meaningless. I don't mind the characters being thin. (It's Star Wars after all, the characters are not exactly the most complex.) They just... don't do much with them. I will say the bulk of my complaints revolve around Jyn and Cassadin. They're the two leads and the film seems less interested in them than anything else despite getting the bulk of the screen time. Jyn's transformation from criminal to rebel feels ill-earned and basically seems built on the back of her father. (As does everything she does in the film.) Likewise Cassadin is a really interesting concept, a Rebellion assassin and spy who believes the actions he's taken are justified in the cause of a greater good. Yet he just sort of meanders through the plot, changing because why not? Jyn basically changes personality based off scene which makes it hard for Cassadin to play off her because Cassadin at once needs to be the one who teaches her about hope and optimism and fighting back and also the cynic who does the hard things that must be done and who she yells at for obeying orders like a Stormtrooper. I can get the basic idea of what they're going for (as they bluntly state their motivations onscreen) but they're just not well-executed. In comparison basically the rest of the Rogue One squad is better developed in a fraction on the screentime. Their personalities are simple but consistent and more importantly they have good dynamics with one another. The two monks play off each other well and I legitimately think Cassadin's scenes with Bohdi hit better than his scenes with Jyn. I said it before but it really stands out to me that the last 3/4ths of the film is based more around a vague Rebellion than the theoretical main cast, and it was clear the director was way more interested in the (admittedly awesome) big war battle than in anything else. Jyn and Cassadin being locked in the fault and insulated from everything else just makes them feel secondary.
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Dec 16, 2016 18:14
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General Battuta posted:I don't follow, aren't heist movies all about the characters? Heat, Snatch, Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels, all of these spring to mind as both excellent heist movies and great character movies. I never got the praise for those films. I guess the rest of the world still find cockney and Londoner stereotypes amusing instead of being loving annoying?
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Dec 16, 2016 18:38
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Snatch is funny not because of the stereotypes, but because everybody is blisteringly incompetent and they all live in a looney tunes version of the London crime scene.
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Dec 16, 2016 18:52
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SeanBeansShako posted:I never got the praise for those films. I guess the rest of the world still find cockney and Londoner stereotypes amusing instead of being loving annoying? Man you watched a really different cut of Heat.
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Dec 16, 2016 19:02
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Nitpick Time!
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Dec 16, 2016 19:05
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Arcsquad12 posted:Snatch is funny not because of the stereotypes, but because everybody is blisteringly incompetent and they all live in a looney tunes version of the London crime scene. That sounds pretty interesting. I only watched the first film, browsed the awkward TV series then more or less wrote off the whole thing.
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Dec 16, 2016 19:06
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SeanBeansShako posted:That sounds pretty interesting. I only watched the first film, browsed the awkward TV series then more or less wrote off the whole thing. I have no idea if this is the popular opinion, but I think Snatch is the far superior film to the first film, Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels. I though Lock, Stock was alright, but Snatch is a movie I have to watch the rest of if I ever find it flipping around. It's a really fun movie. You should check it out.
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Dec 16, 2016 19:09
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Will do, It will take my mind off the fact the music for Rogue One isn't as good which for some reason really saddens me. Also, going to take a break from this thread until I see the film myself.
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Dec 16, 2016 19:20
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Megachile posted:Are you all complaining about the performances/in the moment characterization, or did you want more backstory or just downtime or what? This is going to sound really stupid and I expect to have this criticism torn apart, but for me it's because Rogue One has very little heart or emotion. It's technically impressive and everything looks incredible, from the beat up trooper armor to the CG space battles. But then the movie asks you to give a poo poo about the characters and I just can't. There aren't any bad performances, the dialogue isn't aggressively bad, and everyone has a motivation (even if some are a bit thin), you're just not given enough time to care about anyone other than Jyn or Cassian. Everyone praises K2, but can you recall anything about him other than "blunt sarcastic droid'? Chirrut had the potential to be a great character (an actual Journal of the Whills reference!), but like every other side character he's given 10 lines and a hero moment and then he's sidelined so Jyn and Cassian can get back to glaring at each other. Chirrut's likeability has more to do with Donnie Yen than than the fictional character we're supposed to be invested in. Now, normally, this wouldn't be a problem in a big ensemble heist film. Ocean's 11 is full of one-note characters that get a handful of lines and then fade into the background. But Rogue One starts killing these characters off and you're supposed to feel something, anything, and you just don't. When these characters start dropping like flies, it should have been this montage of loss that shows the futility of the Rebel struggle and the brutality of the Empire. Instead, it's a checklist that the movie goes through while the audience sits there going "ok, next, next, now it's Bodhi's turn, next..." The only deaths with any real weight and emotion are Chirrut and (maybe) the terrified Rebels that Vader slaughters. I don't know, the movie just feels a bit muddled. Maybe it'll improve with a second viewing.
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Dec 16, 2016 19:21
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SirPhoebos posted:[*]I'm okay with planets getting nameplates as they're introduced, but for whatever reason they forget to include it for the planet with Vader's lava-fortress (which btw I thought was a cool inclusion otherwise). Is that supposed to be Mustafar? If so why is Vader hanging out in the place he once got his rear end kicked? I liked that, actually. The Sith are all about dwelling on misery and anger, so the planet where you strangled your pregnant wife and had your limbs lopped off by your former mentor and best friend would be a perfect spot for your brood-tower.
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Dec 16, 2016 19:32
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I'd just started rereading Wraith Squadron books again and it's just so gratifying that Rogue One is also something like Bantam EU at its best.
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Dec 16, 2016 19:55
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I liked that, actually. The Sith are all about dwelling on misery and anger, so the planet where you strangled your pregnant wife and had your limbs lopped off by your former mentor and best friend would be a perfect spot for your brood-tower. I'd see your point if Vader was actually brooding in this film. Instead the few lines he has include a quip that makes it clear he's outgrown his angsty teenage years by now
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Dec 16, 2016 21:04
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Chirrut is easy money, followed by Baze as he takes on 20 troops or something to avenge his friend or buy the team time. Bohdi will either die in the cockpit while getting Jyn and Cassian to the last act or he'll survive to the end. K-2 will either die protecting Cassian or K-2 and Cassian will both die protecting Jyn. I'd be extremely surprised if anyone other than Jyn makes it to the credits. I wouldn't even be surprised if Jyn bites it. Rogue One is gonna look like the end of King Lear. The Prophet hath spoken
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Dec 16, 2016 22:09
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Antequek posted:The Prophet hath spoken Man, I even had the order right.
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Dec 16, 2016 23:02
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I am just home from seeing Rogue One and enjoyed it a lot. I thought it was good fun and wasn't. It's once due in fit it. I hope that the next movie (the Han Solo one and Episode VIII) can be as entertaining. I imagine it must have cost a lot of money to bring Peter Cushing back to life to appear in this movie but I think it was well worth it. I was also surprised by Darth Vader's nude scene which I wasn't expecting at all! All in all, I recommend Rogue One to anyone who has not seen it already.
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Dec 16, 2016 23:49
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SirPhoebos posted:I'd see your point if Vader was actually brooding in this film. Instead the few lines he has include a quip that makes it clear he's outgrown his angsty teenage years by now "apology accepted captain needa" "i find you lack of faith disturbing" vader has always done stuff like that. plus he was brooding in the bacta tank. you can tell he is annoyed that he has to listen to krennic whine about how he is getting c'ucked by tarkin and openly demanding vader make him higher rank. Big Mean Jerk posted:This is going to sound really stupid and I expect to have this criticism torn apart, but for me it's because Rogue One has very little heart or emotion. It's technically impressive and everything looks incredible, from the beat up trooper armor to the CG space battles. But then the movie asks you to give a poo poo about the characters and I just can't. There aren't any bad performances, the dialogue isn't aggressively bad, and everyone has a motivation (even if some are a bit thin), you're just not given enough time to care about anyone other than Jyn or Cassian. Everyone praises K2, but can you recall anything about him other than "blunt sarcastic droid'? Chirrut had the potential to be a great character (an actual Journal of the Whills reference!), but like every other side character he's given 10 lines and a hero moment and then he's sidelined so Jyn and Cassian can get back to glaring at each other. Chirrut's likeability has more to do with Donnie Yen than than the fictional character we're supposed to be invested in. agreed. i liked the characters in a general sort of way and felt bad for them in general, but i dont remember there names specifically apart from the robot and the monks. but it was never prequel territory of bad writing and characters. just simple ones. it was a story to service that action and to make episode 4 look better.
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Dec 17, 2016 00:00
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SirPhoebos posted:Nitpick Time! Holy moley this is a bad post
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Dec 17, 2016 00:27
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I liked that, actually. The Sith are all about dwelling on misery and anger, so the planet where you strangled your pregnant wife and had your limbs lopped off by your former mentor and best friend would be a perfect spot for your brood-tower. Alternately, Sheev built it for Vader to gently caress with him. But yeah, either way, I liked it too.
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Dec 17, 2016 02:07
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Right, time to take a break from this thread and black bar poisoning until I get a chance to see the movie. See you on the other side.
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Dec 17, 2016 02:57
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I liked that, actually. The Sith are all about dwelling on misery and anger, so the planet where you strangled your pregnant wife and had your limbs lopped off by your former mentor and best friend would be a perfect spot for your brood-tower. I like to imagine that Palpatine just felt like being a massive dick and rang up Vader one day to say, "Vader, my man, you've been doing good work lately, and I want to reward you with your very own castle. It's on Mustafar. Enjoy!"
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Dec 17, 2016 11:10
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Really loved Rogue One. I liked how it gave us a reason why the Death Star isn't defended like it should be, with a lot of Star Destroyers and thousands of TIEs. Also, why the Rebel Main Base is only defended by a couple of X-Wings and Y-Wings. Without hitting you over the head with it. Loved the call-backs to IV and even III, loved the easter eggs from Rebels (the Hammerhead Corvette was just amazing). The characters might have been thin for a epic Star Wars movie (and of course for any movie outside the genre), they were done well enough compared to what you usually get in a war movie. Only the soundtrack is too boring and forgettable, but that seems to be the standard for today's blockbusters. Also Why would the Tantive IV, with one of the most important political Rebel leaders on board, be chilling inside of the flagship during what amounted to a suicide mission? Decius fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Dec 17, 2016 |
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Dec 17, 2016 17:27
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Milky Moor posted:Holy moley this is a bad post Yeah, holy gently caress everything about that critique is just flat dumb or wrong or both. Decius posted:Also Why would the Tantive IV, with one of the most important political Rebel leaders on board, be chilling inside of the flagship during what amounted to a suicide mission? Unclear, but my guess is maybe she had been flying with the rest of the fleet during the battle and hastily docked with the flagship after it had been disabled. It looked like her and her crew were making a mad-dash to get those plans out of there. Lake Jucas fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Dec 17, 2016 |
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Dec 17, 2016 19:54
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gently caress, double post.
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Dec 17, 2016 19:57
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One thing from the trailers that I was disappointed didn't show up in the movie: Jyn confronting a TIE fighter with a blaster at the top of the tower. One thing from the trailers that I am relieved didn't show up in the movie: any variation the "This is a Rebellion, isn't it? I rebelled," exchange cut together for the first trailer.
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Dec 17, 2016 23:58
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I thought this was pretty good but not great; some very high points but also some serious flaws. Kind of like TFA in that regards, but I think I like Rogue One better. One funny thing I realized is that for all Abrams aped the OT, I think that Edwards not only was better at imitating the feel of the OT, but also better at transcending and innovating from it. Loved that the Hammerhead ship from KOTOR was not only prominently used, but namechecked. Same with the Whills. I feel like the various script rewrites took Guardians of the Galaxy into account, this definitely felt like it was kind of a Star Wars mirroring of it, at least to a degree. I also had the weird sensation that the Scarif locale at the end was like a Battlefront map - land at one of several spokes leading to a central hub that is the objective to seize, directives like "find the map" or "push the button," even people calling in on the radio that reinforcements had arrived. Decius posted:Also Why would the Tantive IV, with one of the most important political Rebel leaders on board, be chilling inside of the flagship during what amounted to a suicide mission? The stuff with the Tantive IV at the end is the one area of Rogue One where it gets as fuzzy as parts of TFA were. We're told that the Rebel fleet has left to attack Scarif, then Bail says he's going back to Alderaan and calls for Captain Antilles, and then R2 and Threepio watch the other Rebels take off for Sacrif, and then it's revealed that the Tantive IV (with Leia, the droids, Antilles, but not Bail) were in the big command ship all along during the battle. How does that exactly work?
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Dec 18, 2016 00:59
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Chairman Capone posted:The stuff with the Tantive IV at the end is the one area of Rogue One where it gets as fuzzy as parts of TFA were. We're told that the Rebel fleet has left to attack Scarif, then Bail says he's going back to Alderaan and calls for Captain Antilles, and then R2 and Threepio watch the other Rebels take off for Sacrif, and then it's revealed that the Tantive IV (with Leia, the droids, Antilles, but not Bail) were in the big command ship all along during the battle. How does that exactly work? Bail sent Leia and the droids to pick up the plans and recruit Obi-Wan, while he went back home to Alderaan to prepare his people for
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Dec 18, 2016 01:09
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Chairman Capone posted:The stuff with the Tantive IV at the end is the one area of Rogue One where it gets as fuzzy as parts of TFA were. We're told that the Rebel fleet has left to attack Scarif, then Bail says he's going back to Alderaan and calls for Captain Antilles, and then R2 and Threepio watch the other Rebels take off for Sacrif, and then it's revealed that the Tantive IV (with Leia, the droids, Antilles, but not Bail) were in the big command ship all along during the battle. How does that exactly work? I think he was going back to Alderaan to start getting ready to come out openly for the Rebellion like you say, but he was sending Leia off separately to collect Obi-Wan - perhaps he went on his own ship and Leia took the blockade runner, then it was co-opted into the Rebel fleet that went to Scarif?
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Dec 18, 2016 01:09
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Anyone else disappointed the monk dude didn't vanish when he died? For someone who spent half the movie repeating "I am one with the Force", it seemed like an obvious thing to happen...
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Dec 18, 2016 04:48
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Angry Salami posted:Anyone else disappointed the monk dude didn't vanish when he died? For someone who spent half the movie repeating "I am one with the Force", it seemed like an obvious thing to happen... Remember that canonically the dying-after-death thing isn't a thing that happens to force users, it's a special technique. Nobody knew it before Obi-Wan did it. Even Qui-Gon Jin didn't vanish after death. Edit: note that I think this kind of takes away from it but it's explicitly canon now.
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Dec 18, 2016 05:12
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Just got back from seeing it. I'll reserve my thoughts on the film for later, but right now I want to talk about the Soundtrack. Holy poo poo, this is one of the worst soundtracks that I have heard in a long time, and the fact that it is in a freaking star wars movie is just embarrassing. There are precisely two leitmotifs in the film, one of which is good, while the other is horrendous. Krennic's theme is actually really good, and gives a nice sinister, martial tone whenever he appears. The other one is the one that plays during the main title, and good god is it bad. It is such a blatant temp track of Korngold's King's Row that even John Williams is looking at Giacchino and saying "dial it back a bit". Instead of having a giant, sweeping orchestra, it sounds like Giacchino recreated the King's Row theme with two trumpets and a timpani and it just sounds awful every time it appears in the film. The rest of the original music is also utterly forgettable. Apart from how bad one of the two actual themes in the film is, the biggest insult in the score comes from whenever actual Star Wars music plays, and then Giacchino fucks it up. It sounds like you are going to get a rendition of the Imperial March, but it plays for only two bars, stutters as the tempo changes, and then completely falls apart, ending with a loud BLAAP from a trumpet. Just let the music play, stop trying to improve on perfection, man. This film's score is the very definition of "The credits have been completed in an entirely different style at great expense and at the last minute." Apart from Krennic's theme, it is downright abysmal. We're never going to get another soundtrack as good as Return of the Jedi, are we?
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Dec 18, 2016 05:43
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Arcsquad12 posted:The other one is the one that plays during the main title, and good god is it bad. And holy poo poo that font! What were they thinking? But yeah the way the title pops up feels so abrupt and perfunctory and bad. They didn't have to have an opening crawl if they didn't want to but why make it this bad? 
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Dec 18, 2016 06:28
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I feel like the entire first third of the film could use a serious rewrite. For one thing, rather than having Jyn get busted out of prison to help them find Saw, just have her already with Saw. Cassian gets assigned to pick up Bohti like normal, but when he comes to Jedha, he meets Jyn while she is working with Saw's extremists. Additionally, cut out the blob monster scene. It's the worst part of Force Awakens, and it has no bearing on this film at all. By putting Jyn with Saw, the film could fix two major issues right away. One, it gives Saw more to do instead of just being a weird kook, and it would help redefine Jyn as the hardass cynic who needs hope, rather than Cassian being the cynic who arbitrarily rants about hope later in the film. If Cassian was the idealist who tries to change Jyn's mind, showing her as a hard edged extremist rebel would go a long way. Additionally, putting Jyn on Jedha right away would also give more time to develop Baze and Chirrut, maybe by making them part of Saw's terrorists as well. It would certainly help explain why Baze calls Jyn little sister despite never talking to her all film. It really annoyed that Cassian cut Jyn and Chirrut's scene short, when it could have been a great moment to expand on both of their characters. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Dec 18, 2016 |
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Dec 18, 2016 08:15
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I don't give a poo poo what anyone says, that was as good as any of the other movies. You guys complaining about acting and motivations are tapped. That was as good of acting as any of the other movies and a shitload better than most. The action had weight to it, very much like a WW2/Vietnam film Hammerhead Corvette rules! Knocked out of the park as far as I'm concerned.
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Dec 18, 2016 10:54
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Milky Moor posted:Holy moley this is a bad post You're welcome! 
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Dec 18, 2016 16:32
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