|
cheetah7071 posted:Rename Tengu to crabfolk, reflavor flight as scuttling, give them back their helmet slot and remove glove slot (pincers)
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 03:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 23:24 |
|
|
One last hurrah for the high elves. http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/InternetKraken/morgue-InternetKraken-20161216-041255.txt Had more spells than I knew what to do with. I think this is the first time I abused toxic radiance and ignite poison. That combo is crazy good and did solid damage all the way through depths. Alistair's Intoxication on the other hand seems worthless. When it did actually work it only confused stuff for like 3 turns. Not very useful. Of course all poison magic is worthless in extended so the venom part of this mage didn't last there. Statue form with hat of the alchemist is about as easy as extended gets. EDIT: Did you know sky beasts could polymorph into hell hounds I sure didn't Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Dec 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 05:27
|
|
|
*smugly watching from on high as everyone complains about removals* Hi, I'm the person that's been playing 0.12.2 on and off for the last couple years. Just started again recently and I achieved my dream: ascending a Spriggan Venom Mage, the combo I really learned the game with. I think I've only ascended twice ever before, the stereotypical MiFi and HEFE, which makes it more impressive that my return to the game went like this: 1) SpVM dead on D:1 to a kobold with exploding darts 2) TeFi killed on D:5 fighting an orc warrior to the death (failed to finish it off from almost-dead for a full 4 turns) 3) SpVM killed on D:5 trying to melee-range a worker ant and #2's ghost, while standing on an upstair 4) SpVM 4-rune ascension. code:1) Spriggans have terrible aptitudes for this kind of build 2) I accidentally got 10 levels in Hexes when trying to get the failure for Mass Confusion down, and also kept Fighting on max training the entire game, which actually felt really good with the extra HP 3) I didn't find a book with Battlesphere until the end of Slime, my 3rd rune. I had honestly forgotten the spell existed. But there wasn't anything I couldn't pelt from afar and then run away from if I ran out of mana, and I had all the time in the world to choose my battles (in-game and out - took 3 weeks playing mostly in small segments). The game finally picked up after I found a staff of conjuration, got Fire Storm castable and finished off Elf (which I was actually able to clear out quietly/without Fire Storm, using an ungodly amount of Venom Bolts), then Slime (continuous application of Fire Storm to the royal jelly chamber), then Vaults, which were almost an afterthought as I didn't even have to run to one of the corridors. I just threw some Fire Storms out, followed up with some Venom Bolts, and went upstairs to recharge my mana, then went back down, popped Mass Confusion because I was completely surrounded by the guards, threw some more Fire Storms out while the guards attacked each other and mostly missed me repeatedly, and then finished off the stragglers. The only really hairy moments in the game were on Slime:2 and Zot:3, both of which had no safe entrances, but even in Zot I wasn't even swapping jewelry for resists, and the Orb run was so uneventful that 1) I began it by dropping a couple things and then eating a bread ration to get unencumbered, 2) the only thing I killed during the run was an adder (with Sticky Flame, because I felt like it), and 3) I didn't even realize that I saw a Pan Lord on D:24 until I saw it in the game log. Highlight of the game was the trove that required a wand of hasting (9), which I reluctantly gave up after finding only one, late in the game, and having to use my last recharging scrolls to get the charges up. In the trove was a wand of hasting (6) and a bunch of recharging, remove curse, and identify scrolls  And then I never used the wand.I think now that I've got that out of the way I'll jump blind into the newest version and see what happens/see if I can ascend my first character. Recommend a combo or I'll just play a Human Wanderer (tell me Wanderers are still in the game). VROOM VROOM fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Dec 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 10:06
|
|
|
lazorexplosion posted:0.17 Crawl will remain best Crawl You have a typo in 0.16 there, mate.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 10:46
|
|
|
So High Elves bit it, huh? I feel a bit nostalgic, since HEFE was my first 3 rune win. I personally don't mind the change though, I think it's fine that sometimes old stuff is thrown out and new stuff is put in. The only thing I'm wondering is what are we supposed to recommend for new players who want to try out casters? High elf elementalists seemed to be the go-to training wheels caster characters. Should there be a training wheels caster option? Ogres are not it, I don't care what the new spell aptitudes are. Deep elves aren't it either, they're way too unforgiving. Maybe just human, or kobold? I don't know, I don't play that much straight up blasters.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 11:39
|
|
|
High Elves were my favorite species, partly because I'm an insufferable Tolkien nerd, partly because of their long, flowing blonde hair and partly because they did have a unique playstyle. Very high stats (highest of all species but demigods) combined with good spell casting and strong all-around magical aptitudes made them very good at learning a very wide range of different magic and using a broad toolset to deal with problems creatively. Tengu have to pick and choose and are pushed hard towards certain schools. High elves could pick up bits and pieces of whatever they found, which made for a different spell selection every game and a lot of fun in finding synergies between different schools of magic. Other species can do this too, but have limitations. Deep elves are the ultimate generalist casters, but you'll never want to take one into melee. Humans, hill orcs, merfolk, tengu etc. have a much tougher time casting such a broad net and making a character that could fight, hex, charm and pick relatively freely from summonings, necromancy or conjurations. High elves were exactly such a character. They sucked if you tried to make them good at one thing, but were quite strong once they got going if you hit just the right investment into a little bit of everything. Nothing in crawl quite fits that niche now. I will admit, however, that while I haven't played crawl too much in the past year or so, when I have, I've enjoyed deep elves and ogres more. Two bright notes for those complaining about the removal of HE, though. First, I've seen some people complain about the lack of other species besides Ce with very high bows. Actually, I never found HE that great in this area compared to other choices. If you want a fighting archer, Ce is better, and if you want a magic archer, DE is much better. Don't forget DE has +1 bows and that pairs very well with their magic aptitudes, since a longbow gives you an MP independent way to quietly eliminate even quite sturdy monsters without getting into melee. Second, in the most Tolkieny sense, high elves haven't actually been removed since all the high elves in middle earth were actually deep elves anyway!
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 12:15
|
|
|
What the heck. D:3 a shop had an artifact demon trident. I went and got the gold and came back. +11, speed brand, mr+, int+5.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 12:49
|
|
|
Please let us know when ya' splat to something easily avoidable.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 13:38
|
|
|
Well then on the first level of the lair I got the artifactiest shadow dragon armour ever. Then on lair 3 I got the ring of shadows. Then I went back to elven halls and got myself banished so I am currently rampaging around the abyss until I get out or get malmutated into the own zone.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 13:58
|
|
|
Found a potion of bene mutation and it gave me genetic stability. However the exits keep eluding me. I really should have gone for that ashe altar when it came by.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 14:06
|
|
|
E Equals MC Hammer posted:Found a potion of bene mutation and it gave me genetic stability. However the exits keep eluding me. I really should have gone for that ashe altar when it came by.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 14:15
|
|
|
Any fun suggestion for a noob that isn't just something like troll berzerker or whatever. Every time i've played this with "easy" characters i've just gotten bored real fast.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 14:16
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:One last hurrah for the high elves. a - the +10 sword of Jihad (weapon) {holy, *Rage rN+ EV+3} (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon) That's some awesome Floor God.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 14:18
|
|
|
Womyn Capote posted:Any fun suggestion for a noob that isn't just something like troll berzerker or whatever. Every time i've played this with "easy" characters i've just gotten bored real fast. Try a fighter that uses invocations. So Makleb, the good gods, etc. That's what I am doing now and it is interesting and different than Oka/Trog.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 14:20
|
|
|
Made it out of the abyss and got sent back 3 moves later.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 14:27
|
|
|
Womyn Capote posted:Any fun suggestion for a noob that isn't just something like troll berzerker or whatever. Every time i've played this with "easy" characters i've just gotten bored real fast. High Elf Conjurer.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 14:52
|
|
|
Womyn Capote posted:Any fun suggestion for a noob that isn't just something like troll berzerker or whatever. Every time i've played this with "easy" characters i've just gotten bored real fast. euphronius posted:Try a fighter that uses invocations. So Makleb, the good gods, etc. Yes, Invo fighters are very fun. Pick something like a Hill Orc, and grab the first altar of an Invocations heavy god you see. Or just start as an Abyssal Knight, plenty of different characters work well with Lugonu. StoryTime fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Dec 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 15:16
|
|
|
StoryTime posted:Yes, Invo fighters are very fun. Pick something like a Hill Orc, and grab the first altar of a Invocations heavy god you see. Or just start as an Abyssal Knight, plenty of different characters work well with Lugonu. HOMo and DsMo are good for this, now that monk doesn't force UC.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 15:20
|
|
|
That was all impossibly annoying. Made it back out and immediately got the hell out of elven halls. Went back to the lair and became a jelly worshipper. Those jellies work fast. Within like 20 turns every item on that level of the lair was gone.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 15:29
|
|
|
I'm legit pulling for you E Equals. When you get a badass start like that and avoid death in an early-ish abyssing it's a sign from the floor god that you are destined for great things.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 15:52
|
|
|
Saint Roka the Acid Blob
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 16:16
|
|
|
On one hand jivya gave me the -50% base armour ac before giving me any scales, on the other hand I grabbed the gong before a jelly could eat it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 16:29
|
|
|
Jelly couldn't eat it anyway, it's a unrandart. All (un)randarts are safe from predation.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 16:36
|
|
|
Oh god really? Edit: praying to stun jellies doesn't work anymore right? Elusif fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Dec 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 16:38
|
|
|
E Equals MC Hammer posted:On one hand jivya gave me the -50% base armour ac before giving me any scales, on the other hand I grabbed the gong before a jelly could eat it. That's not a issue with Jiyva, just burn piety to remove it. dpeg posted:If you play a recent Crawl, then killing monsters in the Abyss will open up an exit. Personally, I think that's the cheesy way, but now there are three ways to get out: (1) randomly run into exit, (2) Lugonu, (3) fight. This was a really good change in my opinion, because if you are buff enough to fight until an exit (or downstairs) appear, the Abyss isn't a threat to you outside of the statistical oddity and should absolutely be sped up instead of wasting your time. I wish Pan was as efficient as that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 17:10
|
|
|
Floodkiller posted:This was a really good change in my opinion, because if you are buff enough to fight until an exit (or downstairs) appear, the Abyss isn't a threat to you outside of the statistical oddity and should absolutely be sped up instead of wasting your time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 17:38
|
|
|
Floodkiller posted:That's not a issue with Jiyva, just burn piety to remove it. No its the Jiyva pseduopod aux attack that also messes up your AC.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 17:42
|
|
|
Was playing 0.19 on my phone today. OgHu, got a +2 GSC of Speed {rF+, rElec, rN+} on d:4 ish. Proceeded to smash absolutely everything, no fucks given. Until I died to hubris vs acid blobs.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 22:57
|
|
|
StoryTime posted:So High Elves bit it, huh? I feel a bit nostalgic, since HEFE was my first 3 rune win. I personally don't mind the change though, I think it's fine that sometimes old stuff is thrown out and new stuff is put in. The only thing I'm wondering is what are we supposed to recommend for new players who want to try out casters? High elf elementalists seemed to be the go-to training wheels caster characters. Should there be a training wheels caster option? I found GrEE the easiest way to learn spellcasting. You've got good apts for your main offensive skills (+2 earth/+1 conj/+0 fire/+0 ice) and if you run out of mana you're still a decent melee fighter that gets the the AC/GDR of chain mail and the evasion of a robe.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2016 23:45
|
|
|
StoryTime posted:So High Elves bit it, huh? I feel a bit nostalgic, since HEFE was my first 3 rune win. I personally don't mind the change though, I think it's fine that sometimes old stuff is thrown out and new stuff is put in. The only thing I'm wondering is what are we supposed to recommend for new players who want to try out casters? High elf elementalists seemed to be the go-to training wheels caster characters. Should there be a training wheels caster option? Cj gets Battlesphere for MP efficiency, Dazzling Spray as an early multitarget spell that also debuffs the target, and Prism as crowd control. It's also really easy to branch out from, since most damaging spells are partially Conj. IE gets Ozoarmor to make up for typically-lovely caster AC, Ice Beasts to distract enemies and act as meatshields, and Throw Icicle to deal with rC enemies. It's good as a hybrid start, but it also works well as a blaster start. AE gets rMsl, Swiftness for emergency exits, Static Discharge as insane crowd control, and Lightning Bolt as an early bolt spell. EE is weird. People seem to like it, but I'm not sure I'd recommend it as a training wheels caster option. It just plays really oddly compared to other caster starts.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2016 03:03
|
|
|
Aumanor posted:You have a typo in 0.16 there, mate. You mean the only release with shadow traps? Internet Kraken posted:Statue form with hat of the alchemist is about as easy as extended gets. I have a demonspawn right now with statform and that hat along with Shield of Resistance and Brooch of Shielding. Also Robe of Vines so I can have regen+++++++ whenever I want while still being able to heal while fighting. With claws 3 and ignite blood. Unfortunately also with Black Mark, the WORST demonspawn power. 20% chance to apply weakness, draining, or antimagic on a melee attack. As opposed to forms and weapons that provide draining or antimagic on every single attack. AND it's a weak-rear end drain (power 10 vs 20-35 for a drain brand) and weak-rear end antimagic (1/4 the power of an AM brand). AND it doesn't activate unless you do damage! Now it USED to have vampirism as well, which made it borderline OP, and I know that had to go. But antimagic is completely worthless unless it's on every swings. So every 1 in maybe 10-15 swings depending on your melee and their AC, you get to apply a lovely drain or a 25% melee damage debuff to a single monster. From your Tier 3 capstone power. Araganzar fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Dec 17, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2016 04:45
|
|
|
oh, that's a good idea! while we're talking about bringing back removed content, why not bring back shadow traps? c'mon, let's get a petition together.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2016 04:57
|
|
|
PleasingFungus posted:oh, that's a good idea! while we're talking about bringing back removed content, why not bring back shadow traps? You're not thinking big enough. Why just traps? Why not add the shadow trap effect to mimics, they need something now! Why not have boggarts randomly lay shadow traps?
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2016 05:00
|
|
|
Haifisch posted:The main problem is that people like to recommend FE as the training wheels class, when its startbook gives you no options except "kill it with fire" and "fart out a fire cloud and hope your enemy stays away from you." The other elemental schools give you startbooks with options that make your life a lot easier, even if you have to think a tiny bit more than "aim spell at thing". It's because FE offers unparalleled control and escape compared to any other starting caster other than Wz. Cj has dazzling spray but it can be resisted. IE has no escape, maybe once you get ice beasts online they can block. Hope you didn't need that XP you invested in summoning. Swiftness is very useful, but you have to play an AE. Don't play an AE. EE has no escape, maybe Petrify which is expensive, resistable, and requires investment in transmutations. Meanwhile, FE and Wz have that "fire fart" which has no resist and will either keep an enemy off you while you nuke it, or cause it to sit in flames. It kills just about any undead and many other stupid monsters in a single cast. It's a level 3 spell that retains usefulness and damage through Vaults/Crypt due to its duration and the control it provides. Add Sticky Flame which is by far the best point blank spell of all the starting books and will reliably kill poo poo all the way through Orc in 1-2 casts. It couldn't be more training wheels. Conjure Flame undead and anything you don't want to get to you, sticky flame anything that has the audacity to attack you in melee.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2016 05:12
|
|
|
Boggarts gain the ability to eat items like slimes could and also split into more boggarts.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2016 05:13
|
|
|
quote!=edit The other part is you need to go Vehumet so you are pretty much guaranteed a non-fire option by the time you need it. Otherwise like VM or AE, FE can get very dicey.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2016 05:14
|
|
|
Look, all I want are Unique Mimics and Unique Mimic vaults. A Sigmund comes into view x5.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2016 05:30
|
|
|
Araganzar posted:It's because FE offers unparalleled control and escape compared to any other starting caster other than Wz. Why the hate for AE? I've really been loving what I've played of it. Are there some specific reasons why it sucks compared to other casters?
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2016 05:42
|
|
|
AE puts you in melee range to deal the most damage which isn't the greatest play for squishy mages. Zap can miss and Static Discharge is pricey for spamming it early game. Then Swiftness is such that you can't really cast it in preparation for handling an enemy so you're ready to bail because of the movement speed penalty after it wears off. So if things do go poorly, you need to be prescient and cast it just before things go wrong or you cross your fingers and hope the extra turn after getting reamed doesn't get you killed. Compare that to IE which has similar play in melee range and you have Freeze not being able to miss and Ozu's Armour giving you some protection. And then the other schools have better ranged choices which lets you more easily tell when to back off before an enemy can get to kill you (ie. don't let them get adjacent!).
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2016 06:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 23:24 |
|
|
Araganzar posted:EE has no escape, maybe Petrify which is expensive, resistable, and requires investment in transmutations.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2016 07:39
|
|
