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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Incidentally, I decided to look up the name Goettsch. It's a variant spelling of Goetsch, which is a "pet form" of either Gottfried or Gottschalk. "Gott" means either "good" or "god", "fried" means "peace" or "protection", and "schalk" means "servant". No creation can use the Geneforge or the Canisters without dissolving (painfully) into goo, it's built in. The Shapers make very sure that their power remains theirs.
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Dec 17, 2016 20:19
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wiegieman posted:No creation can use the Geneforge or the Canisters without dissolving (painfully) into goo, it's built in. The Shapers make very sure that their power remains theirs. The canisters, yes. The Geneforge is as-yet an unknown quantity. It might very well be able to reshape a servile back into a human, at which point anything that can be done for Shapers can be done for the ex-servile.
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Dec 17, 2016 21:01
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There's something that confuses me about all this. If what we've heard and/or inferred is true, the Geneforge is a thing of unimaginable power, and probably the reason why Sucia was Barred. It's just... why? If it's too dangerous to use, the Shapers would have destroyed it, and if it was OK to use, it'd still be in use, and if the side effects were a problem, they'd be doing research on how to mitigate it (which I kind of assume would involve the thing itself). But they've done none of the above - why?
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Dec 17, 2016 21:11
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vdate posted:There's something that confuses me about all this. If what we've heard and/or inferred is true, the Geneforge is a thing of unimaginable power, and probably the reason why Sucia was Barred. It's just... why? If it's too dangerous to use, the Shapers would have destroyed it, and if it was OK to use, it'd still be in use, and if the side effects were a problem, they'd be doing research on how to mitigate it (which I kind of assume would involve the thing itself). But they've done none of the above - why? The Shapers on the island were really, REALLY keen to save their research, as noted by the multiple 'I wish to leave behind my research even if these small minded fools fear it!' tomes we've found. I wonder if they didn't give a false, different reason the island had to be barred, evacuated as fast as possible, and planned (originally) to come back later and resume their work.
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Dec 17, 2016 21:14
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vdate posted:I suppose, not having any knowledge of what Shapers look like, they Sholtai might have concluded that anything that can, well, Shape, is a Shaper. So hell, you might be right. Then again, they knew enough to fetch you, so maybe not? There are statues all over the place, so it's likely they went off of that.
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Dec 17, 2016 21:17
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vdate posted:There's something that confuses me about all this. If what we've heard and/or inferred is true, the Geneforge is a thing of unimaginable power, and probably the reason why Sucia was Barred. It's just... why? If it's too dangerous to use, the Shapers would have destroyed it, and if it was OK to use, it'd still be in use, and if the side effects were a problem, they'd be doing research on how to mitigate it (which I kind of assume would involve the thing itself). But they've done none of the above - why? There were probably three reasons: 1.) Shapers rule most of the world and their leaders tend to be very confident/arrogant. Once they said "this island is Barred, leave immediately", they probably just figured that was good enough since nobody under Shaper rule would openly defy them by coming back. The concept of Sholai outsiders is either unknown, arrogantly dismissed or forgot about. 2.) The Shapers on the island thought it was temporary and really didn't want to abandon their research. You can see this in all the journals, notes, and other stuff that they left around. They planned on coming back and restarting their research right where they left off. 3.) Everybody left in a hurry. Some stuff was just straight up left there because they were basically ordered to GTFO immediately.
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Dec 18, 2016 00:08
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It's improbable, but I hope we get to find out what happened to the Shapers once they left. As the protagonist has noted, it's odd that we didn't know this island even existed. Did the other Shapers decide the Geneforge was too much of a temptation to even risk going back to destroy it and just murder everyone who knew it existed?
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Dec 18, 2016 01:11
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FredMSloniker posted:It's improbable, but I hope we get to find out what happened to the Shapers once they left. As the protagonist has noted, it's odd that we didn't know this island even existed. Did the other Shapers decide the Geneforge was too much of a temptation to even risk going back to destroy it and just murder everyone who knew it existed? It's very likely they would do that. Maybe they can re-write memories too, though? Either way, I can't see them risking information about something so dangerous and powerful ever becoming public knowledge. As far as not destroying it, they didn't trust it but who knows? They might need it someday, if things get too out of hand for anyone but an Uber-Shaper to fix. Shapers seem to be very practical and while they wouldn't want any further tampering with the Geneforge, or spreading of the canisters, that doesn't mean they would just break them either.
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Dec 18, 2016 03:20
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I suspect actually destroying knowledge completely rather than just barring it might also be taboo, considering how highly they value scholarship.
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Dec 18, 2016 03:25
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Didn't some documents we found indicate that, while rushed, the barring (at least from the Sucia Island Shapers' PoV) was an interim-barring and would be either rescinded or finalized after a council decision?
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Dec 18, 2016 03:59
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Didn't some documents we found indicate that, while rushed, the barring (at least from the Sucia Island Shapers' PoV) was an interim-barring and would be either rescinded or finalized after a council decision? Taker journals from Kazg posted:Two of them are for Entry Batons. You don't know what those are, but the sheet says that one of them was sealed in the mines, and the other was 'inadvertently forgotten' in the West Workshop. More Taker journals from Kazg posted:Inside the cabinet, you find an old, dusty scroll. Unrolling it carefully to keep it from crumbling, you read the faded words on the page. It is a proclamation, issued about two hundred years ago: >Note the Geneforge was specifically 'deactivated', not 'destroyed'. >Also "all other research" and products were to be stored, which explains why canisters and research notes were left everywhere. FWIW, I don't remember if the game ever actually clarifies whether the Barring was declared permanent or if 'interim' just ended up lasting forever. MagusofStars fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Dec 18, 2016 |
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Dec 18, 2016 05:14
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It's likely that if they did remove information it would be through the murder of those who knew about it. That said, I do feel like it was just a case of the interim Barring lasting for much longer than anticipated, since our protagonist hadn't even heard of Sucia before washing ashore. Two centuries is plenty of time for the general public to lose information about an isolated, Barred island. (I haven't gotten much farther than this in the game; the encounters kept killing me even on easy because of bad skill allotment and poor positioning. I'm just working on general knowledge of Shaper ruthlessness/pragmatism.)
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Dec 18, 2016 06:30
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The only thing I'll say about the geneforge is to point out something we already have. Notice that the geneforge has the word gene in it. This might be obvious really, but that could tell you that despite the trappings, this game in not really a fantasy genre but a sci-fi genre. If you think about it that way, then anything with the word "gene" and "forge" put together would be a rather scary thing indeed.
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Dec 18, 2016 07:40
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Didn't some documents we found indicate that, while rushed, the barring (at least from the Sucia Island Shapers' PoV) was an interim-barring and would be either rescinded or finalized after a council decision? I see you have the same suspicion as I about how the mainland Shapers got the island ones to leave...
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Dec 18, 2016 10:20
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mauman posted:this game in not really a fantasy genre but a sci-fi genre. It always felt this way, with how much more the Shapers seem like scientists who merely use magic as their medium rather than mystics. Magic seems really 'technologized' here, with predictable results, the ability to do large scale manufacture, etc.
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Dec 18, 2016 14:00
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Incidentally, I decided to look up the name Goettsch. It's a variant spelling of Goetsch, which is a "pet form" of either Gottfried or Gottschalk. "Gott" means either "good" or "god", "fried" means "peace" or "protection", and "schalk" means "servant". I always assumed it came from Goethe, for the whole deal with the Devil thing.
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Dec 18, 2016 15:02
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By intention or not, there doesn't seem to be any one real-world culture that the Shapers can be mapped to - Shaper names we see in the later games include Greta and Shanti, so yeah - Goettsch could be a reference to some real world name, or just a rando fantasy name.
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Dec 18, 2016 15:16
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Night10194 posted:It always felt this way, with how much more the Shapers seem like scientists who merely use magic as their medium rather than mystics. Magic seems really 'technologized' here, with predictable results, the ability to do large scale manufacture, etc. Considering what the "magic" actually is, I find this to be a very fitting post. I looked back a few pages and found out the "scrolls of life" aka genes had already been mentioned, Shapers have been doing genetic mutation for a while and not actually realizing it. Definitely a sci-fi thing  I don't know if it had been mentioned yet, but Geneforge was supposed to be straight up sci-fi at some point with ray-guns and everything. But Vogel wasn't sure how well balanced new tech (like guns) would match up with old tech (swords and magic) so he changed the guns to the batons (among other things). Honestly, I think it was a good change. I always liked the concept of living projectile weapons, it's unique and interesting. mauman fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Dec 18, 2016 |
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Dec 18, 2016 20:47
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I love the biological tools and weapons fluff. It fits the theme much better than rayguns and etools, and is pretty unique. Same for the control panels and automatic doors -- these things are all motivated by living creatures.
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Dec 18, 2016 21:11
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:By intention or not, there doesn't seem to be any one real-world culture that the Shapers can be mapped to - Shaper names we see in the later games include Greta and Shanti, so yeah - Goettsch could be a reference to some real world name, or just a rando fantasy name.
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Dec 18, 2016 21:19
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mauman posted:Considering what the "magic" actually is, I find this to be a very fitting post. They also throw fireballs with their minds and create creatures from nothing (since I doubt Solution is carrying around several pounds of life goop). There is clearly magic in the setting, it just has a firm stance on being very science-y in how it handles it. It's more science fantasy than pure scifi. I'm really glad that we have the batons and living doors and the like instead of typical scifi rayguns and stuff. It makes it stand out in the mire of aesthetically identical sci-fi games, in addition to just being more interesting and better fitting the setting.
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Dec 19, 2016 00:30
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Like Clockwork posted:They also throw fireballs with their minds and create creatures from nothing (since I doubt Solution is carrying around several pounds of life goop). There is clearly magic in the setting, it just has a firm stance on being very science-y in how it handles it. It's more science fantasy than pure scifi. Also, while standard magic is just that in this setting, shaper magic has more of a commonality with something very real and VERY sci-fi when used in a fantastic manner. Of course, there are (huge) liberties taken like it can't be summoned out of nowhere in real life like the shapers can or create giant battle-creatures (or at least not yet, certain sci-fi flicks would disagree), but there are details that make me think that it's an intentional parallel. And yeah, science fantasy would be a good term for it I suppose. And I definitely agree that the bio-engineering aspect of tools and such is better than bog-standard tech. Makes the setting much more interesting. All things being equal though, once you get through the fantasy-like surface, I would say that this series leans more towards sci-fi. mauman fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 00:45
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Too Many Circles You head to Learned Jaffee's lab next. The servile is quietly remonstrating with one of his tamed fyoras when you arrive. You watch until he notices you. "Tell me, ally, what you've learned," you say. News that you're now working with the Obeyers has almost certainly reached the ears of everyone in Pentil. It's not as though Rydell's hall has doors. "I know that there is great turmoil on this island. I know that alien invaders have come here, and they are unleashing powerful forces," Jaffee says. "But most of what I have is rumor and supposition. When you gain information, tell it to Rydell. I will then use that knowledge to assist you. The thing I can help you with best is understanding the strange Shaper magic left on Sucia." "There is something powerful on this island. I don't know what it is, but its name sounds like 'Geneforge.'" You're curious if Jaffee's connections are better than his leader's. Learned Jaffee doesn't strike you as the type who feels much loyalty to any individual figure. He's probably more interested in his projects and, perhaps, in the sect's principles. "Interesting. Remember, though, that this island is Barred. Whatever this thing is, the Shapers wanted it to be forbidden, forgotten, ignored. If you seek it, it should only be to destroy it," he says. Then it is the principle of the matter that concerns Jaffee, not knowledge for its own sake. "There are definitely foreign, alien humans on this island. One of them is named Trajkov. Do you know anything about them?" "This explains much." Jaffee leaves for a moment, and returns with a sheaf of paper. "We found this near the bridges to the east." He shows the sheets to you. They are covered with writing. It seems alien. At first. "These papers were dropped by one of the foreign humans. We didn't know it at first. We do now. It is different from our written language, but similar. With some work, we were able to decode a bit of it. Better, by spying on alien humans near here and eavesdropping, we were able to understand some of the pronunciation. We can teach you a small amount of their language. It is not enough, by itself, to communicate, but, if you can learn more elsewhere, you may be able to speak with these beings. Then, perhaps, we may be able to deal with them properly, and the true will of the Shapers might be furthered." Jaffee teaches you some more of the Sholai language. It is strange, and yet familiar. (You have now had one language lesson.) I think the game assumes that this will be the first place you receive a language lesson. Clearly, that's not how things worked out for Solution. "I have used many of the canisters on this island. They are making me more powerful. What else are they doing?" The rebel Sholai have been clear about one thing: use of the canister turned their leader and his followers violent and angry, qualities not fit for a diplomatic mission. "Shaper, it is clear. They are rewriting you. What will be the final result? I do not know. But, while I suspect you will need the power they give you, beware. Sucia Island was Barred for a reason." It's a shame that this servile can't further your understanding of the canisters and the Geneforge, but your expectations weren't very high. The serviles can't use the canisters, and are understandably reluctant to experiment with them. But Jaffee has more initiative than most of his kind when it comes to working with Shaper materials. "I saw your fyoras in the woods to the south. Why don't you tell me some of what you have learned, so I can add to it and help you." Jaffee bows his head. "I am ashamed, Shaper. But, for the sake of my fellow serviles here, I will expose my ignorance so that you can help me." You discuss the qualities of fyoras and other aspects of creations with Jaffee for a while. He learns some things from you, and you are surprised at how much he has discovered. You even manage to learn a few things, which is quite a surprise. We gain a point in Fire Shaping for this. Also, all the dialogue options about what we've learned from our adventures grant experience, though now Solution's level is too high to gain exp.  You unlock the old storage room in Jaffee's lab, freeing up extra space for his work. You're rewarded with the discovery of another usable canister. The effects of this one aren't as immediately apparent, but you feel more confident than you did before, above and beyond the rush of power and well-being you've come to associate with the canisters. I forgot to check out the Pentil storage area before leaving, so we'll come back to that in a future update. But if you kept track, you'll see that Pentil just gave us some serious upgrades -- an extra point in Mechanics, Leadership, Fire Shaping, and Melee just from joining up. There's also a canister of Create Roamer in the untouched storage room. As a bonus, we got some vendor trash and the carnelian gloves! Also, in the interests of full disclosure, I played the next section before Solution joined the Obeyers, but it made more sense to switch the order for the LP. Nobody really wanted to wait for me to finally mosey my way back to the main plot, right?   All the evidence you've collected points north and east. Goettsch, Trajkov, and your potential escape all lay in these unexplored lands. Astrov advised you to avoid the bridges, and your alternatives, such as the pass, require you to explore.  The road leads north of Darian's vale before it's blocked again by overgrowth. You follow an unmarked path amid bone-strewn ruins until you reach a circle of menhirs. The arrangement is certainly unnatural, but this style doesn't correspond with any Shaper monuments you've seen before.  There is a battle alpha standing in the middle of this clearing. He looks like a young specimen. Either he was recently created, or the battle alphas left behind on this island centuries ago have been breeding. He slaps himself on the chest and shouts, "I am Aitch!" It's a standard name. Shapers give all the battle alphas in a unit preset names to aid in standardization. "This Freeplace! We no want Shapers here. No follow no more. We greater than Shapers! I challenge you! Duel! Duel!" He raises his arms in the air, roars, and lunges forward. Freeplace? None of the serviles have mentioned the name, but it does sound like a Taker idea. But you don't have time to think about that -- this is the first time an alpha has spoken to you, and now it's coming for your blood. If it speaks, then maybe you can reason with it -- this alpha is already a step above nearly all the non-servile rogues. "But you're right! You are greater than Shapers." Somehow, your words pierce Aitch's tiny brain. He stops moving. "Uhh... What?" "Of course. You're clearly greater than me. I won't try to tell you what to do. You've won the duel," you say. "Oh. I... I... Oh. Hah! I have beaten you! You will have no Ieadering here!" He proudly tromps back to his post. He looks slightly doubtful. Something about what happened is bothering him, but he can't quite figure out what.   Game Text posted:This is the lair of a large group of battle alphas. The creatures are bred to function in groups. However, seeing how they try to live on their own is, in a bleak way, quite comical.  Game Text posted:This creature seems surprised and bothered by your presence in his or her lair. However, it doesn't move to attack you. It just snarls and shuffles away.  This battle alpha is extremely old. He may be the father (or mother, you're not sure) of this clan. He stares morosely into the fire. He is not as strong and confident as the others. He looks up at you. "I am Ell. I lead Freeplace." He looks back at the fire. "I need to know more about this island," you say. "No know. We stay here. No know." Ell subsides once more into painful contemplation. "I need your help. Come fight with me." A battle alpha would make a tremendous ally, especially when combined with your other forces. "No. We stay here. We no help. You not command us." He seems extremely depressed when he says it. His kind was not made for independence. He knows that he wants it, but he can't understand it. "What are you thinking about?" "I have to think lots. Have to take care of home. Is hard. Have to find food. Lead. Strange. Hard for us." Surely it is difficult. These creatures were not designed to live on their own. They were not given very good brains. You could try giving Ell an order. Battle alphas were shaped to serve, not to make their own settlements. But you're sure Ell will refuse, and perhaps violently. The alpha is working hard in his own way, and after your initial encounter outside, these rogues haven't threatened you. Freeplace represents an immense threat, but you find that you don't want to destroy these rogues, even if by law you should. These battle alphas are struggling to overcome their innate limits. This defies every Shaper effort to command and control creations, every law and barrier your kind has put in place to create useful, predictable, dependent lifeforms. Yet instead of fear, you only feel regret. "It's easy to live on your own," you say. "Here's a little advice." At first, Ell is reticent. Then you start to explain to him the basics of housekeeping and food gathering. You also throw in a little advice on organization and cleanliness. "You have... You... That help. Part about using shelves make sense. And cooking food. Very interesting. We will try what you say. May help us. We pay you back. I give you things we not need. Fair trade." He leaves the room for a minute. You hear the grinding of stone on stone. Then he returns. "I have to think lots. Have to take care of home. What you say is good start. But we always need to think more." You leave Ell to his work and investigate the canister behind him. None of the battle alphas react to you examining it, so you go ahead and use it. When their agents finish changing you, your searer spell is significantly more powerful.  The previously blocked off room is full of supplies, but most important is the shielding knife you find in the crystal box. With it in hand, your body is protected by a minor deflection spell.  Another path outside the battle alphas' burrow takes you further east into the woods. As you examine the tumbledown ruins, you hear something crashing through the forest nearby.  This battle alpha isn't friendly like its fellows. You're forced to order your creations to take it down. You examine its remains, but nothing indicates why it was so hostile to you. Perhaps it was just completely mad.   The obelisk here reads "Maintaining Station." You step inside in hopes that you might find more pods or tools. Game Text posted:Up until recently, this was a recharging and shaping station, maintained by a servant mind. The essence and healing pools are still alive, though, if they are not cared for, they won't be for much longer. That's another servant mind accounted for... At first, seeing how badly this facility has fared, you think the mind was slain by one of the battle alphas here.  Game Text posted:The servant mind is dead. It looks like it was killed about a month ago. It wasn't slain with weapons, but with magical fire and acid. The use of magic to murder this creation rules out the alphas, though. Perhaps a servile armed with fire wands and acid batons could have done it, but you suspect the outsiders did this.   Time to boost our fyoras and artilas a little.  There's another small ruin further east. Until the door slides open, there's no indication that anything's wrong. The first thing you notice is the stench of decay. This ruin is full of rubbish and worse. There's a single bedroll on the floor and beside it, a prone servile and a bloody hammer. You don't notice the other servile at first, not in the dark, not with all the heaped up trash. Your attention is on the downed servile, who is unfortunately quite dead.  This one is still alive, and as you draw near, he cries out a threat. You catch the glint of an iron dagger. There's only one conclusion to draw as the servile darts out at you... and with a single spell, you kill a probable murderer. There's really nothing to this room besides the hostile but not aggressive Zygan and the dead servile. As far as I know, there aren't any scripted actions here, nor any quests. I don't know if this is just a random weird thing to find or if Vogel intended to do more with the named NPC but forgot.  Game Text posted:You find a couple of old chemical vats. These thick crystal jars are made to store substances useful to Shapers. Usually, they need to be kept very cold. One of these actually has some consumables.  You head south, still mulling over the strange and fatal encounter with that deranged servile. It seems clear that the one servile murdered the other, but there are so many unanswered questions that you'll never be certain. You hope you served justice, but now you have to live with doubt. You find another box mine while you're distracted by these questions. Luckily you notice it before you stray too close. You shoo your creations back and try to disarm it, but it's too complex for you to disarm. On the bright side, you're fast enough that it doesn't trigger before you back off.  Sometimes there's an Ur-Glaahk here, but it doesn't spawn this time. We'll be back later.  As you head back south, you encounter another hostile battle alpha. The rogue charges right into your strung-out line. You don't have time to recriminate yourself for sloppiness. Your creations are more than a match for a lone rogue now, though. They take it out without sustaining more than bruises.  The path to the middle of the woods is also blocked with mines. You decide to turn back to Pentil for now, rest, and regroup.  After some time for sleep and meditation, you remember that Mickall Blade had asked you to look for one of the Obeyer outposts near Kazg. You're sure you're not welcome among the Takers now, but as long as the outpost hasn't been overrun by them, checking in on Doge should be safe enough. You haven't had an opportunity to investigate the southeastern coast of the island yet, anyway. Offscreen, I returned to the tombs regions and made sure we didn't miss any points. Thanks to our thrusting gloves, we gained a point in Anatomy, and thanks to the point in Spellcraft from the Sholai, we are able to gain a second point in that too. We're starting to get pretty powerful!   It's twilight when you make it over Southbridge. You walk into a huge clearing dominated by a paved circle inscribed with a huge glowing rune. Nothing happens when you draw near, not even when you dare to walk over it. Nearby is an intact version of the pillar you found in one of the caves back west. Before you can investigate it, though, some roamers emerge from the woods.  Regular roamers are no match for your creations now, nor is the vlish that leads them. You blast one roamer with searer while your fyoras finish the other off with fire. The vlish is burst before it can even act.  The rest of the roamers arrive too late to support the rogue vlish. They surround placid saviour, but the artila is far too fast and wily for them to contend with. Your team picks them off in short order.  Game Text posted:This stone pylon is very, very old and worn. It is probably ancient enough to predate the Shapers' settling of this island. The years of exposure to the elements have crumbled it and left whatever markings were on it completely illegible. This forest is very strange. You wonder what happened to the people who built all this, and what the Shapers who came before you made of it all.  You encounter another pair of rogue patrols before you reach a large ruin. Mopping the rogues up is almost more time-consuming than it is dangerous. The tedium is a relief, really, but you're also glad to have a look at what the Shapers left behind. Game Text posted:This looks like it might have once been a waypost or a station for maintenance of creations. More recently, traveling serviles have used it as a safe, enclosed place to camp.  The pools soothe your weariness and heal your creations. The serviles who used this as a waypost must have also maintained the pools.  Game Text posted:You find an old notebook dating back from Shaper days. The pages were coated to protect them from the elements, and the serviles have respectfully left it alone. It looks like it might have been an old study journal, protected from harsh conditions.   There are truly an alarming number of rogues here. The serviles wouldn't have stood a chance against the dozens of roamers you've destroyed so far. You also find more of those huge, glowing runes and more of the stone pylons.    Game Text posted:This is an ancient stone circle, made by whoever lived on this island before the Shapers did. It's a remarkable structure. It's a pity this island is Barred. If it wasn't, Sucia Island might have a solid tourist trade. After crushing a few more patrols, you find another ring of megaliths. They exude incredible power, though their purpose is not at all evident. The energy has drawn in a swarm of roamers and even another vlish. They don't respond well to your sudden appearance.    The roamers fling themselves at you even though they die swift and terrible deaths. The submission vlish controlling them can't keep up with the injuries your creations inflict, but it keeps struggling to heal its enslaved roamers. This ties it up until only one rogue roamer remains. Then the vlish turns its attentions on you. You think you've gotten almost as used to burns and stabbings as anyone can be, but you've not experienced a vlish trying to steal control of your mind. The effort of fending off the submission vlish's mental magic disorients you. Fortunately, your creations don't try to slip their leashes while you recover. Instead, they destroy the rogues.  The nausea fades as you leave the stone circle. You explore the outer ring of paths and clear out a few more patrols before you find a little break in the trees.  Game Text posted:This stone pylon is very, very old and worn. It is probably ancient enough to predate the Shapers' settling of this island. The years of exposure to the elements have crumbled it and left whatever markings were on it completely illegible. You need at least 1 point in Luck to get this from the northwestern pillar in this tiny clearing. You pocket the bone wand for a moment and examine the bodies, but neither the servile's nor the human's reveals any secrets.  You try focusing essence on the wand, but it doesn't respond any more than any other inert object. You point it at a pylon, then tap one with it, and even shake the wand, but nothing happens. Then you try taking the wand over to the first glowing rune you found. As you step onto the circle, you feel the wind. The impenetrable forest a few strides away abruptly becomes a small clearing. The wand has dispelled an illusion -- or perhaps it's a key, and the glowing rune is a lock.  You're not alone in the clearing, though. An almost completely transparent figure hovers between two ancient pylons. The land beneath it is just bare earth littered with bones, rocks, and pottery. The ghost points at you. Before it can do anything, your artilas shoot it down. Spirits are apparently no more proof against acid than clawbugs are.  You thought the spectral rogues the Shapers made were the closest things to ghosts that really existed, but apparently not. Perhaps the Shapers found inspiration from these old shades.  You cross all of the runes with the wand in hand and clear out the ghosts. The pylons over what you guess are graves don't reveal any more secrets, but at least you're making these woods a bit safer for anyone who passes through in the future.  In one of the clearings, you find a pair of enchanted boots after you clear out the resident specter. You suspect the boots are ancient, but they're still in amazing shape.   After you disperse the last specter, you find a robe that matches the boots. The material is very light and cool to the touch, like silk. This has been a very odd diversion. You're left with more questions than when you started. You rest by the pools for a while, and then press on. Next time: Everybody Run, It's the
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Dec 19, 2016 01:17
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So now we're ghostbusting eh?
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Dec 19, 2016 02:29
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The scripts don't indicate anything for Zygan other than his having a name. And I completely missed that I could open those groves in the stone circle area. Guess I'm heading back there next time I play!
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Dec 19, 2016 02:30
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Deceitful Penguin posted:So now we're ghostbusting eh? I ain't scared o' no ghosts! unless they vomit searing orbs 
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Dec 19, 2016 02:55
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:searing orbs Searing orbs ANYTHING is terrifying when playing a shaper 
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Dec 19, 2016 04:27
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mauman posted:And yeah, science fantasy would be a good term for it I suppose. And I definitely agree that the bio-engineering aspect of tools and such is better than bog-standard tech. Makes the setting much more interesting. All things being equal though, once you get through the fantasy-like surface, I would say that this series leans more towards sci-fi. I'd say the reason Geneforge is more like sci-fi than fantasy is because of its focus on social issues. The central aspect of Geneforge is essentially: "You've got unlimited bio-engineering power, what will it gently caress up and change if you use it? How will it affect society? What is the status of creations? How should they be treated? How will it change the mindsets of their owners?" And so on. That all smacks to me much more of what would be central points in a sci-fi story than what would be central points in a fantasy story. Of course, Geneforge ALSO has Fantasy elements. But they feel more like their purpose is to give the player something personally investing and interesting to do while they watch and formulate opinions on the sci-fi issues.
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Dec 19, 2016 08:40
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I see no reason to not just call it what it is: Science Fantasy. Fiction that blends the genres is far from unheard of. Dragonriders of Pern is an easy example. Arguably Shannara is another.
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Dec 19, 2016 08:55
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Science Fantasy is the favorite setting of JRPGs. Even the most straight-laced fantasy type stories typically have the ruins of some ancient high-tech civilization somewhere. Sometimes that civilization is specifically ours! (looking at you, Stella Glow)
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Dec 19, 2016 11:17
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PurpleXVI posted:I'd say the reason Geneforge is more like sci-fi than fantasy is because of its focus on social issues. The central aspect of Geneforge is essentially: "You've got unlimited bio-engineering power, what will it gently caress up and change if you use it? How will it affect society? What is the status of creations? How should they be treated? How will it change the mindsets of their owners?" And so on. That all smacks to me much more of what would be central points in a sci-fi story than what would be central points in a fantasy story. Never thought of it that way. I like it.
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Dec 19, 2016 11:42
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Tarezax posted:Science Fantasy is the favorite setting of JRPGs. Even the most straight-laced fantasy type stories typically have the ruins of some ancient high-tech civilization somewhere. Sometimes that civilization is specifically ours! (looking at you, Stella Glow) In those cases, though, they never really go into the social implications of such. The dead ruined high-tech civilisation's just there to be a thing for the characters to have a scrap over. What's important in the Geneforge series is that the story sweats the details of what living in a world where wizards can shape reality to their whim would actually be like. Creations aren't just something to make the combat more interesting, the morality of owning and controlling them is the core theme of the story.
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Dec 19, 2016 12:12
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So your underlying thesis is that in sci-fi, the setting drives the story (i.e. the story flows out from the implications of the setting), while in fantasy, the story determines the setting (i.e. the story demands X event happen; that requires a setting that can justify it). Is that accurate?
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Dec 19, 2016 16:54
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It is true that most scifi examines some theme of what society is/was/could be due to technology. It's why Star Wars is far more fantasy than scifi in the movies at least. The scifi trappings are just that, trappings for a human drama.
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Dec 19, 2016 18:03
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:So your underlying thesis is that in sci-fi, the setting drives the story (i.e. the story flows out from the implications of the setting), while in fantasy, the story determines the setting (i.e. the story demands X event happen; that requires a setting that can justify it). Is that accurate? Partially. The problem with Science Fantasy is that many people disagree what exactly qualifies. It would be closer to say that in Sci-fi, some sort of (real) science is what's driving the story or at the very least provides the foundation (space exploration, psychology, etc...) while in fantasy it's driven by factors that probably aren't even remotely real (dragons, magic). That's an oversimplification but for our purposes that explanation will work. Some are rather obvious, like star wars, but others are not quite as obvious. Fallout, Star Trek, and many more are argued to be science fantasy due to the impossibility of the science behind them. In fact most books/games that you might consider science-fiction could be considered science fantasy. This also means that certain books/games/movies that you might not think are science fiction actually are. This is why it's not used in a general sense, nor will you find a science fantasy section in most libraries. For instance, Pern is considered science fiction in quite a few reading lists, book shops, reviews, etc even though it would definitely qualify as science fantasy  It's why I tend to avoid using the term, and I would still describe it as sci-fi with fantasy elements to people to avoid confusion . But yes, this game is definitely science fantasy. Note - you might hear the term "soft" science fiction and think that refers to looser science (like star trek). The term actually has nothing to do with that. "Soft" science fiction refers to books driven by soft sciences like psychology, while "hard" science fiction refer to hard sciences like math and what not. mauman fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 21:54
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mauman posted:Partially. To be honest your entire post reeks of the old clash between prescriptivists ("This term has this meaning and nobody uses it correctly!") and descriptivists ("When we look at how people use this term, they are using it with this meaning."). Especially the hard vs. soft sci-fi thing. I literally have never heard your definition of it before; it's always been a measurement of how plausible the science is.
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Dec 19, 2016 22:06
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:To be honest your entire post reeks of the old clash between prescriptivists ("This term has this meaning and nobody uses it correctly!") and descriptivists ("When we look at how people use this term, they are using it with this meaning."). I took a literature class in college I wasn't trying to say anything really I was just listing what I know. If you don't believe me about the soft science thing, look it up. edit: I literally googled "soft science fiction" and my definition was the first thing that popped up.
mauman fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 22:12
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They told us not to cross the streams but we didn't listen
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Dec 19, 2016 22:29
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Captain Oblivious posted:They told us not to cross the streams but we didn't listen Speaking of which, that's another one that would definitely qualify as science fantasy in more than a few literature* circles *yes, I know it's a movie series not a book series. mauman fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 22:41
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mauman posted:edit: I literally googled "soft science fiction" and my definition was the first thing that popped up. Yeah, and that's super weird to me because like I said, you're the first time I've ever heard anyone use that definition. Wikipedia allows for both definitions, and I can definitely see how the drift happened: initially defined in terms of "hard science" (engineering, math, physics, etc.) and "soft science" (psychology, sociology, etc.), but the former would also tend to have more rigorous / less fuzzy science in the books, so people tended to associate "hard sci fi" with "accurate science" and therefore "soft sci fi" with "inaccurate science". Which amusingly ends up lumping, say, an accurate sociological sci-fi in as "hard sci fi".
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Dec 19, 2016 22:43
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