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Bioshuffle posted:When has this ever happened anywhere else? Was Luke chanting when he fired off the torpedos? Was Rey chanting when she sliced up Kylo Ren? They point out that when he says that chant he's praying. So he says that chant on the way to the lever because he's praying. This doesn't take a loving genius to figure out if you watch the movie and understand that people pray in dire situations.
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Dec 18, 2016 20:51
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Filthy Casual posted:This is the first time we've had a Star Wars main cast that wasn't going to be around for any other movies, so their arcs were really limited by comparison. There was certainly more growth from the main five or six than, say, the cast of Alien sans Ripley. Cassian was a huge dick, though, but he rediscovered some level of humanity by the end. I mean I get what you're saying but I think because they wanted to tell these big epic stories about these dudes that more or less are condensed into a single sentence in the scrolling marque and it falls super hard on it's face. Like I said when I just got out of the theater the most interesting characters were the bit characters in Sassy Robot and Blind Monk. The girl got over the fact the rebels carpet bombed her dad to death at breakneck speed and giving super cliche speeches about hope. Honestly the more interesting points were how they all bit it than what exactly they did before getting to that moment. I dunno how else to really explain it. Like Whitaker's character seemed interesting but he's like "No, don't take me to the Rebels! I have to uh, die here because.... uh, the plot demands it? You can't drag me around because my pots and pans robot rear end is too heavy? I forgot how to walk?" Really I felt most engaged with the whole suicide mission and the Empire busting out some of the big robots and of course Vader himself
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Dec 18, 2016 20:59
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Saw resigned himself to his fate after seeing the power of the Death Star destroy the entire city that he had been fighting the Imperials in. Like that look on his face is just one of complete resignation and just facing crushing defeat. He'd dspent all this time fighting the Empire on this world and then he just watched it completely obliterated. He just realized that everything they had fought for up to that point meant nothing really. How can you be a fanatic when your enemy makes your actions look like nothing. Like everything he did meant nothing.
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Dec 18, 2016 21:02
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Servaetes posted:I mean I get what you're saying but I think because they wanted to tell these big epic stories about these dudes that more or less are condensed into a single sentence in the scrolling marque and it falls super hard on it's face. Like I said when I just got out of the theater the most interesting characters were the bit characters in Sassy Robot and Blind Monk. The girl got over the fact the rebels carpet bombed her dad to death at breakneck speed and giving super cliche speeches about hope. Honestly the more interesting points were how they all bit it than what exactly they did before getting to that moment. I dunno how else to really explain it. Like Whitaker's character seemed interesting but he's like "No, don't take me to the Rebels! I have to uh, die here because.... uh, the plot demands it? You can't drag me around because my pots and pans robot rear end is too heavy? I forgot how to walk?" He.. couldn't walk though? Like, literally you see Saw stumbling around on his poo poo robot feet.
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Dec 18, 2016 21:14
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ShineDog posted:He.. couldn't walk though? Like, literally you see Saw stumbling around on his poo poo robot feet. He kinda walked around though! But they coulda picked his rear end up or something as opposed to him stoically facing his death for no reason.
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Dec 18, 2016 21:30
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I thought it was pretty obvious that he stayed behind because he realized everything he'd done all the atrocities didn't matter.wyen faced with what the Empire would and could do. He realized he become a monster for nothing.
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Dec 18, 2016 21:33
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The shot that stuck with me the most is weirdly K-2SO downloading information from another droid's brain.
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Dec 18, 2016 21:38
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Hollismason posted:I thought it was pretty obvious that he stayed behind because he realized everything he'd done all the atrocities didn't matter.wyen faced with what the Empire would and could do. He realized he become a monster for nothing. None of this is actually in the movie though. This is in your head. The movie paints these characters in incredibly broad strokes and gives them maybe one scene of characterization (he's a man that's gone too far in pursuit of the good because he lets a brain slug ruin a guys brain for like 10 minutes, he's...well, another guy that's done horrible thing for the cause because he shoots some other guy that I guess is an ally or something) and then expects you to fill in all of the blanks. There's no time for any of the characters to get established because they're just being rushed from one plot point to another (literally, rushed, there are like a dozen different locations in this two hour movie) so they can all make it to their marks in time for the big battle to start so they can all die so that we can have the payoff of a completely meaningless Vader sighting and computer Carrie Fisher leading us into A New Hope.
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Dec 18, 2016 21:50
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Really you dont think h disconnecting his breathing apparatus and the look of utter sadness didn't mean anything.
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Dec 18, 2016 21:57
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big money big clit posted:None of this is actually in the movie though. This is in your head. The movie paints these characters in incredibly broad strokes and gives them maybe one scene of characterization (he's a man that's gone too far in pursuit of the good because he lets a brain slug ruin a guys brain for like 10 minutes, he's...well, another guy that's done horrible thing for the cause because he shoots some other guy that I guess is an ally or something) and then expects you to fill in all of the blanks. There's no time for any of the characters to get established because they're just being rushed from one plot point to another (literally, rushed, there are like a dozen different locations in this two hour movie) so they can all make it to their marks in time for the big battle to start so they can all die so that we can have the payoff of a completely meaningless Vader sighting and computer Carrie Fisher leading us into A New Hope. Movies spelling everything out in laborious detail is a worse risk. A little bit (and here is is just a little bit) of subtlety and trust in the audience is a good thing. That said, there are probably more characters in this movie than the plot really requires.
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Dec 18, 2016 21:58
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There's subtlety and there's vague flat dialogue. Jyn has like three facial expressions and we meet Saw for like ten minutes. He says some really generic stuff about why he abandoned her and then he dies like we're supposed to be welling up with tears.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:02
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Hollismason posted:I thought it was pretty obvious that he stayed behind because he realized everything he'd done all the atrocities didn't matter.wyen faced with what the Empire would and could do. He realized he become a monster for nothing. Both of these things are true. They were not, realistically, going to get him back to the ship. He was OK with this, for the reasons you have stated.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:02
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Yeah I mean I don't think he was like " Oh man my favorite eatery is destroyed" tearily throws away breathing apparatus and resigns himself to his fate.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:04
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Magic Hate Ball posted:I'm glad he didn't flip the switch with his brain powers. It might be time to give this gimmick a break, you made back to back posts that were calling for magic brain powers and then saying you were glad you didn't see those magic brain powers.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:05
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Mulva posted:It might be time to give this gimmick a break, you made back to back posts that were calling for magic brain powers and then saying you were glad you didn't see those magic brain powers. It would've been neat to see some application of it, but not the climax.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:06
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Whereas practically every single person calls the climax where they happen to be one of the most striking scenes in the movie.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:12
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Hollismason posted:Really you dont think h disconnecting his breathing apparatus and the look of utter sadness didn't mean anything. It meant he was resigned to dying. Why was he resigned to dying? Who knows, we know almost nothing about him other than that he's considered an extremist by the alliance and he has a funny voice. Maybe it's because of what you said, or maybe it's because he's worn out from fighting, or maybe it's because he's realized what a terrible surrogate father he's been, or maybe it's because he trusts Jyn to continue his work, or maybe it's because he knows he doesn't have any more lines in the script. Who knows why?! And he's actually better characterized than most of the main cast. He's at least got some interesting stuff going on besides just being a brooding dude who sacrifices himself for the greater good, or a brooding lady, who sacrifices herself for the greater good, or a snarky robot, who sacrifices himself for the greater good, or... Captain von Trapp posted:Movies spelling everything out in laborious detail is a worse risk. A little bit (and here is is just a little bit) of subtlety and trust in the audience is a good thing. The characters don't need to give expository dialogue explaining who they are (though they actually do this too), but they're basically just empty vessels in this. They're all just an archetype stamped on a cipher.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:12
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LesterGroans posted:The shot that stuck with me the most is weirdly K-2SO downloading information from another droid's brain. Yes! It evoked the same general feeling of hosed-up-ness that the tortured robot in Jabba's dungeon does (the one that's basically drawn and quartered). It was the only moment of "that is some hosed up poo poo done in the interest of this ostensibly good goal" in the movie I thought. It needed more of that kind of twisted poo poo if they wanted to evoke extremism more
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Dec 18, 2016 22:15
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big money big clit posted:The characters don't need to give expository dialogue explaining who they are (though they actually do this too), but they're basically just empty vessels in this. They're all just an archetype stamped on a cipher. I don't agree with this at all. They had character, but they weren't studied. Not every film needs to be an exploration of it's characters. It wasn't what the film was about. The characters were compelling enough for what the film was. I mean, if nothing else, look around social media and see how much people like them.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:18
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Mulva posted:Whereas practically every single person calls the climax where they happen to be one of the most striking scenes in the movie. I like how they used it in the climax, I just wish it had a little more emphasis. The way it's done in the movie he just kinda cakewalks over to the lever. I want more opera in my space opera.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:19
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Waffles Inc. posted:Yes! It evoked the same general feeling of hosed-up-ness that the tortured robot in Jabba's dungeon does (the one that's basically drawn and quartered). It was the only moment of "that is some hosed up poo poo done in the interest of this ostensibly good goal" in the movie I thought. It needed more of that kind of twisted poo poo if they wanted to evoke extremism more Yeah, there was a weird disconnect between that scene and Cassian shooting the dude who would obviously talk if captured and everything said about Forest Whitaker's suicide bombers being some disowned faction of the Rebel Alliance.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:19
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yeah. I liked the movie alot, but it every much reminded me of Godzilla(the one edwards did which i also liked) its a simplistic story with one note but likable or at least somewhat likable characters who are there to service the events and the set pieces. i mean most of the characters are there fill out the body count and most of the people there is there to see vader or death star do poo poo. which is what happens.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:22
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ShineDog posted:I don't agree with this at all. They had character, but they weren't studied. Not every film needs to be an exploration of it's characters. It wasn't what the film was about. The characters were compelling enough for what the film was. I mean, if nothing else, look around social media and see how much people like them. People like them because they're attractive people in a blockbuster movie who largely don't do anything offensive or off-putting. The movie would be a lot more interesting if some of them were actually unlikeable. I don't think everyone in a war should actually be likable because war is not a good thing. But the fact remains that them being likable doesn't actually mean that they are well characterized or that their interiority is established, it must means that people like their quips, or their faces, or that they do kung fu.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:22
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Oh my god I forgot he did Godzilla, the main character in that movie was like a slice of dry bread.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:22
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Oh my god I forgot he did Godzilla, the main character in that movie was like a slice of dry bread. The main character in that is Godzilla though, and Bryan Cranston. Or do I repeat myself?
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Dec 18, 2016 22:23
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LesterGroans posted:Yeah, there was a weird disconnect between that scene and Cassian shooting the dude who would obviously talk if captured and everything said about Forest Whitaker's suicide bombers being some disowned faction of the Rebel Alliance. i assumed cassian is part of rebel black ops or whatever, kinda of the idea of the burned out agent who has to kill people for the greater good and all that poo poo. like he still believes in the cause but he is sick of having to kill people that dont need to die. Saw is basically a bunch of fanatics living in space middle east basically being space al qaeda. saw is basically junkyard vader with probably most of his body gone and its clear his mind is going or gone.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:28
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big money big clit posted:The main character in that is Godzilla though, and Bryan Cranston. Or do I repeat myself? Godzilla's neat but I don't want to just watch things fall down, that's boring.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:29
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i assumed cassian is part of rebel black ops or whatever, kinda of the idea of the burned out agent who has to kill people for the greater good and all that poo poo. like he still believes in the cause but he is sick of having to kill people that dont need to die. It's clear he's junkyard Vader and I would have love if they explored that even a little, but like with everything else in the movie we're just told that those guys are extremists, when all that we see is bog standard insurgency street fighting
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Dec 18, 2016 22:30
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Waffles Inc. posted:It's clear he's junkyard Vader and I would have love if they explored that even a little, but like with everything else in the movie we're just told that those guys are extremists, when all that we see is bog standard insurgency street fighting Oh i agree with that definatly. i wish we had gotten more ideas behind there stuff. my assumption is they didn't care about civilian casualties or something like that. maybe they put imperial pilots in cages and burned them to death or bombed the homes of officers.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:33
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It seemed kind of tame and uncreative. Maybe there was more interesting stuff that got cut out. Is Saw's breathing tube literally just for breathing? I mean, is he Blue Velveting it? It seems like he huffs it and then he's like YEAH TIME TO BE EVIL but then it cuts away before we get to see the squeamish ramifications.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:35
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Magic Hate Ball posted:I like how they used it in the climax, I just wish it had a little more emphasis. The way it's done in the movie he just kinda cakewalks over to the lever. I want more opera in my space opera. Literally every shot missed him until he hit the lever. Then he got shot. That's the force yo. Only Jedi can do cool mind poo poo with it. No one else.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:46
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I'm a sucker for scenes where characters are completely ready to die, and Saw dropping his oxygen mask because he wouldn't need it anymore was a good one.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:53
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Poldarn posted:I'm a sucker for scenes where characters are completely ready to die, and Saw dropping his oxygen mask because he wouldn't need it anymore was a good one. His face right as the shockwave hits him and a split second before it cuts was really impactful too.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:57
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Magic Hate Ball posted:It seemed kind of tame and uncreative. Maybe there was more interesting stuff that got cut out. Is Saw's breathing tube literally just for breathing? I mean, is he Blue Velveting it? It seems like he huffs it and then he's like YEAH TIME TO BE EVIL but then it cuts away before we get to see the squeamish ramifications. maybe. he might be on pain drugs and that fucks up his mind even more. Poldarn posted:I'm a sucker for scenes where characters are completely ready to die, and Saw dropping his oxygen mask because he wouldn't need it anymore was a good one. me too. and this movie had decent amount of good ones. i liked donnie yen because it was realistic and not(that) stylized. you see him get fragged and his body just contort and then he is just dead. heavy weapon guys death was alright too. shooting stormtrooper version of combine(they sounded like combine soldiers) so what was the deal with deathtroopers, i assume they arnt fully human.
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Dec 18, 2016 23:19
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I haven't read any of the new canon EU novels so bear with me. But was the weird subplot of the Geonosis bugs in Attack of the Clones being involved in the Death Star design just dropped? I mean I hope it was because that was loving stupid as all hell. It hasn't been mentioned in anything since, even in Revenge of the Sith.
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Dec 18, 2016 23:25
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The Death Star was actually built in orbit around Geonosis, and when it was done, the whole planet was sterilized by the Empire to cover it's tracks. Galen Erso didn't build the Death Star; he was just in charge of the superlaser aspect of the project. It was barely even 10% done at the end of Episode III, and wasn't completed for almost 20 years. Everything adds up.
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Dec 18, 2016 23:28
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Gonz posted:The Death Star was actually built in orbit around Geonosis, and when it was done, the whole planet was sterilized by the Empire to cover it's tracks. *checks Wookieepedia* Oh lord you aren't joking. Well at least that stupid planet got annihilated.
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Dec 18, 2016 23:31
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Magic Hate Ball posted:It would've been neat to see some application of it, but not the climax. We get it though, you didn't like the movie. Codependent Poster posted:They point out that when he says that chant he's praying. I can't believe you actually had to explain this to someone but then again, this is a Star War thread.
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Dec 18, 2016 23:41
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Dapper_Swindler posted:so what was the deal with deathtroopers, i assume they arnt fully human. They made me think a whole lot of Half Life 2 Combine Grunts
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Dec 18, 2016 23:54
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ShineDog posted:They made me think a whole lot of Half Life 2 Combine Grunts same. they sounded just like them.
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Dec 19, 2016 00:05
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