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Servaetes posted:I mean I get what you're saying but I think because they wanted to tell these big epic stories about these dudes that more or less are condensed into a single sentence in the scrolling marque and it falls super hard on it's face. Like I said when I just got out of the theater the most interesting characters were the bit characters in Sassy Robot and Blind Monk. The girl got over the fact the rebels carpet bombed her dad to death at breakneck speed and giving super cliche speeches about hope. It was a bad speech, that's why it was just some Mon Calamari dudes and a few others already committed to fighting back rallying around her. She finally had cause to not resent her Dad, and his dying wish was that she carry out this mission. It would make more sense to try and get the Rebels to steal the plans because that way her Dad didn't die for nothing. quote:Honestly the more interesting points were how they all bit it than what exactly they did before getting to that moment. I dunno how else to really explain it. Like Whitaker's character seemed interesting but he's like "No, don't take me to the Rebels! I have to uh, die here because.... uh, the plot demands it? You can't drag me around because my pots and pans robot rear end is too heavy? I forgot how to walk?" Nothing about Saw Gurrera, as presented, suggested he could move quickly or be easy to carry. Plus his life's work of atrocities literally just exploded right in front of him. It seems reasonable that he just said gently caress it. quote:Really I felt most engaged with the whole suicide mission and the Empire busting out some of the big robots and of course Vader himself Same, it was spectacular, I just liked most of the other stuff, too.
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Dec 19, 2016 00:35
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"She's supposed to be boring and stupid!"
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Dec 19, 2016 00:38
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ShineDog posted:They made me think a whole lot of Half Life 2 Combine Grunts Combine grunts aren't fully human either. You can see some on operating tables having their vocal cords ripped out and getting cybernetic implants.
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Dec 19, 2016 00:44
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Magic Hate Ball posted:"She's supposed to be boring and stupid!" She's neither, but there's nothing to suggest that she's an accomplished orator. She is pretty good at fighting people, based on her history with Saw.
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Dec 19, 2016 00:47
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Filthy Casual posted:She's neither, but there's nothing to suggest that she's an accomplished orator. She is pretty good at fighting people, based on her history with Saw. I mean, I took it more as "she's giving a rousing speech, but they're too limp/pathetic/afraid to take action", and the "rousing speech" just happened to be badly written.
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Dec 19, 2016 00:53
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Bioshuffle posted:I personally felt that the blind monk was easily the worst part of the movie. He was obviously put there to appeal to kids and sell figurines. They went for the more realistic gritty angle, with people getting shot and blown up. Suddenly you have this literally blind monk slowly walking towards the switch and every single storm trooper misses him. How? There was literally no explanation given for this anomaly. lmfao are you serious my dude?
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Dec 19, 2016 00:54
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If I actually cared about any of the new characters in this movie, it would probably be close to A New Hope and Empire as my favorite. It has pretty much the opposite problems I had with Force Awakens. A shame since it has an amazing cast. The final 3rd is amazing though. It was really good at making the Death Star seem loving terrifying and it was surreal in the best way to have new Darth Vader scenes that didn't make my eyes roll.
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Dec 19, 2016 00:57
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SeANMcBAY posted:It was really good at making the Death Star seem loving terrifying. That was the best part. The, like, "atmospheric photography" in this movie is phenomenal. I loved how often there were huge things in the sky.
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Dec 19, 2016 00:59
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Between this and Arrival, Whitaker has been doing some weird-rear end accents lately.
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Dec 19, 2016 01:07
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Between this and Arrival, Whitaker has been doing some weird-rear end accents lately. maybe it was the re-shoots, but his character and scenes could easily have been removed and taken nothing away from the film. Have the defector show up right at Yavin base and use the 30 minutes for literally anything else. I would have accepted the full 30 minutes just being used for Darth Vader telling more dad jokes. Speaking of which, I guess some people liked it, or at least felt it was keeping with Vader's history of one-liners, but for me it fell flat. I was with some friends at the theater and we looked at each other right after and mouthed "what the gently caress?" That was some prequels level failure right there. It immediately made me think of Austin Powers puns, "well, I guess he'll never be the head of a major corporation." Although Vader's ending seen was redeeming. BTW, have we ever seen Vader (not Anakin) go toe-to-toe with regular mooks before?
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Dec 19, 2016 01:35
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Filthy Casual posted:She's neither, but there's nothing to suggest that she's an accomplished orator. She is pretty good at fighting people, based on her history with Saw. Jyn was a pretty generic lead. There was nothing interesting about her. If she had been some radical insurgent fighting with Saw's extremist rebel cell, that would have been cool to see develop and change over the course of the film.
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Dec 19, 2016 01:35
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Listen to this and think about what sort of character you expected and what you got. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcLzu3TTC2Y
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Dec 19, 2016 01:54
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Kaincypher posted:maybe it was the re-shoots, but his character and scenes could easily have been removed and taken nothing away from the film. Have the defector show up right at Yavin base and use the 30 minutes for literally anything else. I would have accepted the full 30 minutes just being used for Darth Vader telling more dad jokes. Yeah, agreed about Vader. I hate to say stuff like this but I saw it with my wife who is take-it-or-leave-it about Star Wars and she gave me a look like "what the gently caress even is this movie" about a dozen times throughout the movie, but reacted most viscerally to that line It was deeply bad
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Dec 19, 2016 02:03
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big money big clit posted:The characters don't need to give expository dialogue explaining who they are (though they actually do this too), but they're basically just empty vessels in this. They're all just an archetype stamped on a cipher. But enough about A New Hope. Most of the depth for the original characters comes from developments in ESB or simply extra screen time in ROTJ. In ANH they aren't much more than we get in this single movie.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:05
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AdmiralViscen posted:But enough about A New Hope. Luke staring off into the twin suns doesn't develop the character for you? I mean be honest. You truly don't think ANH organically develops its characters?
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Dec 19, 2016 02:08
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Jyn hiding in a hole in the ground fearfully staring up at the porthole doesn't do the same?
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Dec 19, 2016 02:13
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AdmiralViscen posted:Jyn hiding in a hole in the ground fearfully staring up at the porthole doesn't do the same? No. You don't have to argue for the sake of it, there's no one awarding points or anything so you don't have to "defend" R1 against ANH for whatever reason. I mean if you really think those scenes are equivalent than like you do you man
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Dec 19, 2016 02:31
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cargohills posted:He's a monk. He chants. It's not really a great mystery. Teal posted:Most IRL mysticism recognises prayers and chanting as just an easy to remember way of introducing the mind (and/or soul) into the right state rather than something like a radio call for a divine airstrike. Codependent Poster posted:They point out that when he says that chant he's praying. Milky Moor posted:lmfao are you serious my dude? If you're willing to overlook this plot hole, more power to you. But this is absolutely a plot hole and weak writing at play. This matter is not up for debate. I still feel I got my money's worth. As I've said repeatedly this was still an entertaining popcorn flick. But when I see weak writing, I'm going to point it out. I'm sorry I'm poking holes in your precious movie, but stop trying to tell me my opinion is wrong. You're simply wasting your time.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:31
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Waffles Inc. posted:No. You don't have to argue for the sake of it, there's no one awarding points or anything so you don't have to "defend" R1 against ANH for whatever reason. I mean if you really think those scenes are equivalent than like you do you man Uh ok dude ANH is a throwback to campy movie serials. I don't think my statement that it's full of broad archetypes is that radical but sorry if it ruffled your feathers. People in this thread can't even figure out why literal cripple Saw didn't run out of his base and instead stared at his oncoming death, so I'm not sure we can expect them to make a thoughtful interpretation of Luke staring at the suns, for what it's worth.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:37
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Bioshuffle posted:We don't have to reach a consensus. I'm allowed to have my opinions. quote:If you're willing to overlook this plot hole, more power to you. But this is absolutely a plot hole and weak writing at play. This matter is not up for debate. 
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Dec 19, 2016 02:38
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If there's one constant here it's people severely overestimating the overall quality of the oldest Star Wars filmsBioshuffle posted:Consider this. Jedi are some of the BEST users of the force in the entire world. Yet- when storm troopers shoot at them, they have to take ACTIVE action (ie using a light saber to deflect the shots) to avoid them. They can't use the force to get all the storm troopers to miss. This has been established. This is canon. Suddenly, you have some blind monk who is able to mysteriously make all the storm troopers miss him just with sheer will or use of the force? It does not add up. At all.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:38
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AdmiralViscen posted:But enough about A New Hope. I don't actually care about a New Hope and haven't seen it in like twenty years, so maybe? I'm talking about this movie that was just released.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:39
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Bioshuffle posted:Suddenly, you have some blind monk who is able to mysteriously make all the storm troopers miss him just with sheer will or use of the force? It does not add up. At all.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:41
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People itt are so desperate to defend R1 that suddenly ANH is bad and doesn't develop its characters 
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Dec 19, 2016 02:44
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It's actually a really fun thought experiment to consider what we would think of A New Hope today if Empire hadn't come along
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Dec 19, 2016 02:48
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Cardboard Box A posted:If there's one constant here it's people severely overestimating the overall quality of the oldest Star Wars films exactly. What the movie doesn't show us is that there are millions of tiny midichlorians in the air all disrupting the blaster shots. Or... the force does or is whatever the writers want it to be at any given moment. Wookiepedia be damned.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:50
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Cardboard Box A posted:It's actually a really fun thought experiment to consider what we would think of A New Hope today if Empire hadn't come along I guess? It's a legitimate great film and would be an all time classic even without sequels
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Dec 19, 2016 02:56
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It was maybe twenty years ago or something, but I think I remember one of the traits of Jedi or "Force-sensitive" PCs in the Star Wars pen-and-paper RPG was that they could basically use the Force to get a "natural 20" on one action per session or story or whatever. I like to think of the Force like that. It doesn't matter how or why it works, they just focus real hard and somehow pull of something they, in all rights, shouldn't be able to do.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:56
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Waffles Inc. posted:People itt are so desperate to defend R1 that suddenly ANH is bad and doesn't develop its characters I'm actually saying the exact opposite of that
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Dec 19, 2016 02:57
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teagone posted:Jyn was a pretty generic lead. There was nothing interesting about her. If she had been some radical insurgent fighting with Saw's extremist rebel cell, that would have been cool to see develop and change over the course of the film. I would've preferred they went with that angle too, but average is not bad. Its average.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:58
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Cirrus entire force shtick was trusting he would be where the force wanted him to be. He's the dirk gently of dodging. He's not making them miss, he's not dodging, he's just where the blasts aren't. It's a different use of the force. It's a loving cool one.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:59
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Baron Porkface posted:Listen to this and think about what sort of character you expected and what you got. Krennic is a total limp noodle and sucks
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Dec 19, 2016 02:59
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very cool to have a star war movie that takes a pro Iraqi insurgent viewpoint imo
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Dec 19, 2016 03:01
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Bioshuffle posted:This is literally the first time anyone chants in the Star Wars universe. This is a pretty big introduction. Can you name one major character who repeats a mantra over and over again? Go ahead. I'll wait. You won't be able to. Quoting this so you can't edit it later. Shameful. Jedi don't exist, friend. Canon is bullshit that you must free yourself from to enjoy the Star Wars. Bioshuffle is the CinemaSins guy. "Blind guy just walks through blaster fire" *funny ding noise*
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Dec 19, 2016 03:02
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Zikan posted:very cool to have a star war movie that takes a pro Iraqi insurgent viewpoint imo Takes an evil empire to know one. Still don't know why pilot guy shot that rebel with the grenade.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:04
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Remulak posted:Still don't know why pilot guy shot that rebel with the grenade.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:06
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Was Jyn hiding next to the tank at that point? I can't remember the exact order of events. Yeah. The guy was going to grenade the tank which Jyn was hiding under/next to.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:09
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AdmiralViscen posted:But enough about A New Hope. Did Jyn's motivations really change at all from the start of the film when she's at the labor camp to up until she's on the beach about to die? I couldn't tell because she's terribly undeveloped. What was she doing before she was imprisoned by the empire? We're introduced to her under really vague circumstances and we can't really get a read on her personality or what she's striving to be or achieve. The only part of her character that eventually breathes for the audience to take in is her daddy issues, but that gets resolved in cliche fashion. Other than that, she's a fairly generic heroine archetype without any unique or defining characteristics. Cassian is a weird character. He's kind of like Han I guess? He does shady poo poo, but the difference between he and Solo is he does such things because he believes in the rebellion; he kills informants and assassinates potentially innocent targets for the greater good or whatever. That's his character throughout the movie... that's it. Nothing gets built from that from the moment we're introduced to him, to the moment he's also on the beach. Maybe he starts to care about Jyn? But why? He doesn't care about her as a person right? It felt like he just cares because she has vital information that would benefit the rebellion. You can't debate that the arcs of Jyn or Cassian are comparable to the development of Luke as a farm boy to Death Star infiltrator and Han as selfish rogue to trusted ally. There's really no comparison there. [edit] I should mention I did like this movie. I just felt the main characters were really weak. teagone fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 03:09
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teagone posted:Maybe he starts to care about Jyn? But why? He doesn't care about her as a person right? It felt like he just cares because she has vital information that would benefit the rebellion. They're about to die and its Felicity Jones, if she's down, I'd at least try to get a quickie in.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:12
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I guess I don't view "farmboy goes to war" and "rogue with a heart of gold" as any less archetypical. Han goes from packing money and bailing to returning to help with no explanation. It's ok because it's a fun action serial that wasn't picked to pieces, and the characters grew in later installments (obviously won't happen this time). Jyn actually has on-screen motivation (cliche or not - again, it's an action serial) to go from not giving a poo poo to giving a poo poo about the task at hand, and Cassian doesn't seem like the type to shoot an acquaintance in the back by the end of the movie like he is at the start.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:15
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