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DeimosRising posted:I think if your team is bad, then totally. If your team is somehow good or even decent and has a #1 pick like the cavs did, a sure thing lesser all star is probably going to move the needle more than, say, 2011 John Wall or even 2015 Karl Towns. A bird in the hand and all that, plus the birds in the bush are equally likely to be a tape recorder playing bird sounds with a picture of Andrea Bargani face planting taped to the front and a bomb taped to the back. Yeah I think it just depends on where your team is. I think draft picks are in general overvalued in all sports-it seems often you'll see someone traded for a draft pick that may become as good as the player that got traded away if the team's lucky. Unless it's someone who's a 100% can't miss superstar (and going back since '90, the only ones I can remember being considered that are Shaq, Duncan, Lebron, and Anthony Davis) a lot of times you'll be able to get a better player, or at least a player who's gonna contribute more in the next 5 years or whatever. euphronius posted:Any time you can trade for a hall of famer in his prime you should do it. The love trade was a no brainer. Especially since he fits well with lebron. This is the other thing. The 4 previous years, if you take out his injured year you had a dude who put up a PER of 24, 25, and 27 (and the 27 was the year after his big injury) with equally impressive counting stats, WS, etc. Love was only 25 too so it's not like you can't get some prime years out of him. As it is I'm still not sure what to think about Wiggins. Dude sure seems like an empty scorer, but he's still pretty young. And there has to be some value to guys who can put up 20 ppg.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:29
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lol that Nerlens Noel complained about a logjam at center after only getting 8 minutes in his first game back from injury so it was solved by giving him 0 minutes the next game
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Dec 19, 2016 02:39
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euphronius posted:Any time you can trade for a hall of famer in his prime you should do it. The love trade was a no brainer. Especially since he fits well with lebron. It took depressingly long for everyone to finally come around to this.
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Dec 19, 2016 02:40
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Lockback posted:It took depressingly long for everyone to finally come around to this. Would you have called Kevin Love a hall of famer in the summer of 2014?
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Dec 19, 2016 02:58
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https://twitter.com/rich_hofmann/status/810665408080527360 I wonder if Noel is getting the message lol.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:01
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dokmo posted:Would you have called Kevin Love a hall of famer in the summer of 2014? Yes because the basketball hall of fame is stupid easy to get in
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Dec 19, 2016 03:02
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euphronius posted:https://twitter.com/rich_hofmann/status/810665408080527360 He's never playing another minute for the Sixers.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:03
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Championship windows can be deceptively short, so if you can get a top 30 player in exchange for a pick go nuts.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:05
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Maybe he, Donatas Cousins and Jackson can make a team made solely out of disgruntled dudes
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Dec 19, 2016 03:09
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Joel Embiid 33 pts (12-17 FG, 2-3 3FG, 7-8 FT), 10 reb, ast, 2 stl, 3 blk, 3 to 27 minutes
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Dec 19, 2016 03:15
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dokmo posted:Would you have called Kevin Love a hall of famer in the summer of 2014? With how basketball hof works, yes.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:18
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euphronius posted:Joel Embiid Change the NBA logo to Embiid
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Dec 19, 2016 03:19
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The process I trust it
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Dec 19, 2016 03:23
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Jota posted:lol that Nerlens Noel complained about a logjam at center after only getting 8 minutes in his first game back from injury so it was solved by giving him 0 minutes the next game they solved the problem
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Dec 19, 2016 03:44
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Declan MacManus posted:they solved the problem Idk they played some weird lineups tonight that had Illyasova at the 5.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:47
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alansmithee posted:As it is I'm still not sure what to think about Wiggins. Dude sure seems like an empty scorer, but he's still pretty young. And there has to be some value to guys who can put up 20 ppg. If he only ever ends up being Jerry Stackhouse there's probably some value in that, if only to flip for assets.
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Dec 19, 2016 03:48
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dokmo posted:Would you have called Kevin Love a hall of famer in the summer of 2014? Unless you thought he was gonna die or something he was definitely on track for it. What would Wiggins have brought to a team that already had Irving and LeBron and was trying to win a title? He was promising but not actually good and would have been an awful fit
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Dec 19, 2016 03:53
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Declan MacManus posted:If he only ever ends up being Jerry Stackhouse there's probably some value in that, if only to flip for assets. I only think of jerry stackhouse the poster now when I see the name. I need some mid-season I Ching
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Dec 19, 2016 03:54
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Declan MacManus posted:If he only ever ends up being Jerry Stackhouse there's probably some value in that, if only to flip for assets. It's funny you mention that in this conversation because recently I asked for a list of 20 ppg scorers with the lowest ws/48 and Wiggins and Stackhouse were up at the top
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Dec 19, 2016 03:57
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https://twitter.com/CarmichaelDave/status/810634201733046272 anyone in the market for a cooked defensive SG that can't actually guard anyone anymore
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Dec 19, 2016 04:13
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I heard Lowry got shoved by Meeks in today's game. Can someone tell me what happened?
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Dec 19, 2016 04:19
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MourningView posted:
He would have been an extremely tradeable asset on a rookie contact. If it didn't work out they could have always traded him for a Love-like player later. You're asking why people didn't like the trade at the time. I'm saying that selling your owner on being a long-term payer of the luxury tax is not a given. Many or most other owners would not have reacted positively to paying so much for a one-way way player while giving up a cheap, desirable athletic player with a good potential to be great. I think the smart play was to wait and see how well Wiggins played, and moved him if it didn't work. Now we know that the owner was always willing to pay the tax so whatever I think is moot. There's a chance that everything I say is stupid. But people are acting like it was a no brainer now, but that's not how I remember the general range of opinions.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:20
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Well also it appears lebron came to cle on the condition they got Love so that maybe adds to the no brainerness.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:24
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The Love for Klay Thompson trade is a way cooler NBA alternate universe.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:25
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Henchman of Santa posted:The Love for Klay Thompson trade is a way cooler NBA alternate universe. It was Klay + Draymond. That would be been something. dokmo posted:He would have been an extremely tradeable asset on a rookie contact. If it didn't work out they could have always traded him for a Love-like player later. You're asking why people didn't like the trade at the time. I'm saying that selling your owner on being a long-term payer of the luxury tax is not a given. Many or most other owners would not have reacted positively to paying so much for a one-way way player while giving up a cheap, desirable athletic player with a good potential to be great. I think the smart play was to wait and see how well Wiggins played, and moved him if it didn't work. Now we know that the owner was always willing to pay the tax so whatever I think is moot. There's a chance that everything I say is stupid. But people are acting like it was a no brainer now, but that's not how I remember the general range of opinions. I think your Luxury Tax concern is valid, and opinions were all over the place but Love is/was an underrated player and Cleveland had everything else lined up for a title run.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:30
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The other thing is people now say Love is a great fit but at the time people wondered how a ball dominant post scorer would work as a pick and pop shooter. I would say that a lot of people wondered about his role at least through the first season. It was not a given that Love would fit in perfectly.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:35
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dokmo posted:The other thing is people now say Love is a great fit but at the time people wondered how a ball dominant post scorer would work as a pick and pop shooter. I would say that a lot of people wondered about his role at least through the first season. It was not a given that Love would fit in perfectly. I still don't think he is a perfect fit, the 3rd guy's numbers almost always take a hit. But I think you still make that move to bring in a versatile scorer like that. Right now his fit looks better because they've actually been able to use him. A big part of that is the rest of the Cavs outside of the big 3 + Shumpert have not looked very good. Maybe some of that is Love taking a lot of touches, not sure which is the symptom here.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:42
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pretty decent ceremony for tim tonight
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Dec 19, 2016 04:42
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Blatt was fired for using love as a ryan Anderson and as soon as lue got head coached, love got more touches at the elbow and othwr methods to get him involved.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:44
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:I heard Lowry got shoved by Meeks in today's game. Can someone tell me what happened? Didn't see it but https://streamable.com/u2bjz
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Dec 19, 2016 04:46
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Lockback posted:I still don't think he is a perfect fit, the 3rd guy's numbers almost always take a hit. But I think you still make that move to bring in a versatile scorer like that. In retrospect you're obviously right, but what I'm trying to get at is that it's much more difficult trying to forecast this stuff as it's happening, and I'm asking people to think back to what they thought back then. I think a lot of people are misremembering either their opinions or how confident they were in those opinions. I just know that I wasn't the only one who thought it was a bad idea back then, even though it sure feels like that now.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:47
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The issue was could love and Lebron work together in an offense outside of pick n pops and love standing in a corner for a 3 because where they pick their spots are the same spots
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Dec 19, 2016 04:52
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Paulocaust posted:Boogie is a dipshit rear end in a top hat that deserves what he gets No he isn't and no he doesn't.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:54
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Away all Goats posted:Didn't see it but Hmm didnt watch the game but I have a feeling this was the turning point from close to blowout
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Dec 19, 2016 04:54
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dokmo posted:In retrospect you're obviously right, but what I'm trying to get at is that it's much more difficult trying to forecast this stuff as it's happening, and I'm asking people to think back to what they thought back then. I think a lot of people are misremembering either their opinions or how confident they were in those opinions. I just know that I wasn't the only one who thought it was a bad idea back then, even though it sure feels like that now. It was defintiely controversial, I didn't think at the time Love was a great fit because of his defense and need to handle the ball, but I am 90% sure I said the same thing then - rookies always suck, rookie contract guys almost always suck on defense, and you're not winning a ring if 22 year old Wiggins is your third best player. And if Lebron comes back and you don't get a ring, that's gonna be seen as a failure. You're all in.
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Dec 19, 2016 05:13
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:Hmm didnt watch the game but I have a feeling this was the turning point from close to blowout It was, Kyle scored the next 5 points to go ahead and then Orlando only scored 40odd points for the rest of the game lol
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Dec 19, 2016 05:21
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DeimosRising posted:It was defintiely controversial, I didn't think at the time Love was a great fit because of his defense and need to handle the ball, but I am 90% sure I said the same thing then - rookies always suck, rookie contract guys almost always suck on defense, and you're not winning a ring if 22 year old Wiggins is your third best player. And if Lebron comes back and you don't get a ring, that's gonna be seen as a failure. You're all in. At some point the advanced stats definitely won the thread over to the "rookies almost always suck" angle and now it's common wisdom, I don't remember if the victory was complete by the time that trade went down. It might have been contemporaneous because they had to make the case a bunch just because of that trade? A rookie is almost never better for the actual team trying to Win Now and LeBron was ready to Win Now I seem to remember people being generally convinced that yeah the dude who just put up the NBA's first 30-30 game since Moses Malone in '82 was better an unproven rookie, but there were questions about Love's defensive ability and how that would relate to a deep playoff run (it was unnecessary worrying, he's one of the greatest perimeter defenders in NBA history since it's the end of the year I will quote the best post I made all year, everyone else should do the same:) EvanTH posted:cause ain't no such things as halfcourt looks
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Dec 19, 2016 05:33
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Id like to go on record and say gently caress you Jodie Meeks you punk bitch. You almost tore our starting PF's ACL and would have been out for the season. gently caress you. Also nice job waking up Lowry when you were in the lead so we had to smoke you by 30.
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Dec 19, 2016 05:35
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Yeah maybe there was some context I missed, but from the video it looked like Meeks shoved Lowry over, and then was so mad about shoving Lowry over that he shoved Lowry over again. What a jackass.
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Dec 19, 2016 05:39
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I'm glad we have a leader with truculence, it's refreshing compared to last decade's beta bitchboy squad featuring Bosh the emotional dinosaur and the dead-eyed dumbfuck Bargnani. https://twitter.com/CarmichaelDave/status/810634201733046272 Whats going on wit Afflalo? MOVIE MAJICK fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 05:40
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