SUK ZONE: it's all a pointless exercise and you're just screaming into the void

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > SUK ZONE: it's all a pointless exercise and you're just screaming into the void

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paranoid randroid: Mar 4, 2007

bump_fn posted:

Sorry I wasn't specific the implicit meaning of "pearl clutchers" was that they're rich enough that they'll be fine

I'm not pretending there's no working class in cities

its hardly a generalized thing but ive seen just enough of it since the election to find it troubling. thankfully its all b-list Twitteratti nimrods, and frankly you can find all manners of dumbass opinions on twitter if you look hard enough

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:00

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# ? May 24, 2024 21:31

MizPiz: May 29, 2013; by Athanatos

bump_fn posted:

Tldr this please this is cspam not the model in

Why are you coddling racists!? :qq:

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:00

Elephant Ambush: Nov 13, 2012; ...We sholde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?; Nap Ghost

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

also the pearl clutcher wealth class mostly voted for trump, something a lot of people don't like to admit because it fucks over the "poors are racsexist" narrative

Dude I am in a rural white town RIGHT NOW and I've been visiting friends from high school and apparently I am imagining things when I hear them talk about making sure not to get anything pink for a newborn baby boy because it'll make him gay and how they don't understand how inter-racial relationships manage to work long-term or why anyone with a penis would claim to be a girl and how Trump might have a point with the whole wall thing.

Are you people all conspiring to gaslight me, a random forums poster?

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:03

big black turnout: Jan 13, 2009; Fallen Rib

Elephant Ambush posted:

(sorry BLM protesters who get run over in the streets while bigots cheer, we need the votes of the cheering bigots)"

link? I didn't hear about this

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:04

Elephant Ambush: Nov 13, 2012; ...We sholde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?; Nap Ghost

big black turnout posted:

link? I didn't hear about this

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=black%20lives%20matter%20protesters%20run%20over

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:05

Elephant Ambush: Nov 13, 2012; ...We sholde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?; Nap Ghost

No seriously. I can admit being wrong. I've already done it a lot since election night. Set me straight on all this.

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:07

Ace of Baes: Jul 7, 1977

Elephant Ambush posted:

And also while I agree that it's lovely to take a dump on poor people for being poor, and while I want our government and society to help them, I'm really confused as to how shitloads of people in here now seem to be giving bigotry a pass because poverty and/or straight-up claiming that poor rural people have never been bigots of any kind ever. Because I grew up in a poor rural town and I can safely say that visiting for the holidays has shown me that there is still tons of bigotry in these places. There's toxic masculinity all over the place and there are plenty of people in favor of Trump's stupid loving wall idea (but totally for border security reasons and not racism at all oh heavens no).

I keep reading tons of people saying that we can do economic and social justice at the same time (and I agree), but now nobody seems to think it's a good idea to remind bigots that it's not cool to be a bigot and hey maybe think about re-considering some of those bigoted ideas.

Yes I want these people to have jobs and good wages and affordable, quality health care (ideally single-payer). I don't want anyone to suffer in poverty or to live paycheck to paycheck. And yes I get that you can't get them to vote for you by sneering at them. However there are ways to talk about racism and bigotry that are not sneering or condescending and this idea that criticizing bigotry is something that only the $150k/yr+ ivory tower liberal elite class does (and that it's somehow a bad thing now) is kinda ridiculous.

I mean seriously the meta argument I'm seeing is "we can do economic and social justice at the same time BUT for now we have to make sure to never hurt the feelings of bigots which means that we're not actually going to work on social justice at all (sorry BLM protesters who get run over in the streets while bigots cheer, we need the votes of the cheering bigots)"

There are plenty of non-racist working class whites, there are also plenty of racist working class whites who care more about the economy than race, they voted for Obama, we need to win both of these groups, that doesn't mean pandering to racism, it means having an appealing progressive pro-worker platform (which, spoilers, is good for all poor/working people, regardless of race).

If getting outraged at well intentioned undereducated poor people eases your white guilt go for it, I'll be over here trying to win elections to actually help marginalized people.

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:08

big black turnout: Jan 13, 2009; Fallen Rib

Elephant Ambush posted:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=black%20lives%20matter%20protesters%20run%20over

so it hasn't then that's what I thought thanks

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:08

Proud Christian Mom: Dec 20, 2006; READING COMPREHENSION IS HARD

Democrats don't need the votes of cheering bigots, but they do need to stop pretending that they haven't been deep-dicking working people for a long time and maybe remember the things the party of labor once represented.

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:08

bump_fn: Apr 12, 2004; _{two of them}

Elephant Ambush posted:

Dude I am in a rural white town RIGHT NOW and I've been visiting friends from high school and apparently I am imagining things when I hear them talk about making sure not to get anything pink for a newborn baby boy because it'll make him gay and how they don't understand how inter-racial relationships manage to work long-term or why anyone with a penis would claim to be a girl and how Trump might have a point with the whole wall thing.

Are you people all conspiring to gaslight me, a random forums poster?

"who do you think is a more active threat to you and your family's well-being right now: a scared kid who is now homeless cause he told his dad he was gay and got kicked out or a billionaire robber baron actively petitioning the government to make sure you and your family dont get basic medical service, which is a human right unless you believe that "life" in "life liberty etc" doesn't actually refer to staying alive"

hth

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:09

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Elephant Ambush posted:

Dude I am in a rural white town RIGHT NOW and I've been visiting friends from high school and apparently I am imagining things when I hear them talk about making sure not to get anything pink for a newborn baby boy because it'll make him gay and how they don't understand how inter-racial relationships manage to work long-term or why anyone with a penis would claim to be a girl and how Trump might have a point with the whole wall thing.

Are you people all conspiring to gaslight me, a random forums poster?

well my angle was more "they're not the only ones voting for this shitheap, most of the people who will not be affected at all/will actually benefit from this voted for him"

I'm sorry you live in what's literally fallout and I realize this is the case for a lot of people, but areas like yours are why it's important that we need to tackle both economic and social issues instead of just one of them, but deprogramming people thinking we can have only one or the other takes a long time and it is the result of a reaganite ideological poison that is starting to fade away from everyone except of course, the upper classes who have the ability to broadcast their diarrhea all over the world.

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:09

big black turnout: Jan 13, 2009; Fallen Rib

millions of people are housing and food insecure, can't afford to use their insurance, etc... but let's talk about the real problem: not putting baby boys in pink

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:10

bump_fn: Apr 12, 2004; _{two of them}

this isn't loving hard people

dont engage on that cause for some people you won't win

redirect the anger to the robber barons jfc

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:11

Oh Snapple!: Dec 27, 2005

be nice if the goal of "get back people who flipped from obama to trump or just didnt vote" didnt keep getting switched to "get literally every trump voter"

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:13

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

bump_fn posted:

this isn't loving hard people

dont engage on that cause for some people you won't win

redirect the anger to the robber barons jfc

every now and then it's also worth drilling in that the reason why idpol (both the anti-racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic/religous and pro- kinds) with a suspicious exclusion of wealth inequality discussion is pressed on and repeatedly promoted by the elites is because they don't want to be taxed to make the government and country actually functional

Oh Snapple! posted:

be nice if the goal of "get back people who flipped from obama to trump or just didnt vote" didnt keep getting switched to "get literally every trump voter"

and this

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:14

theres a will theres moe: Jan 10, 2007; Hair Elf

Whenever I go back to my lovely hometown and talk to the people who never left, I run across the same stuff. Have a few drinks and suddenly everybody is furious at Mexicans for no discrete reason. Most of 'em have probably never even seen a Mexican person IRL.

They also get super mad at all the poors soaking up all their tax money, not realizing that they are among that group.

My own grandma yelled at me for supporting Bernie because socialists want everything for free. Later that same day she complained that her SS checks were too small and said "they might as well keep 'em!" (she hasn't worked in at least 40 years)

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:14

Elephant Ambush: Nov 13, 2012; ...We sholde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?; Nap Ghost

Ace of Baes posted:

There are plenty of non-racist working class whites, there are also plenty of racist working class whites who care more about the economy than race, they voted for Obama, we need to win both of these groups, that doesn't mean pandering to racism, it means having an appealing progressive pro-worker platform (which, spoilers, is good for all poor/working people, regardless of race).

Cool, we agree on all this.

quote:

If getting outraged at well intentioned undereducated poor people eases your white guilt go for it,

Who's being sneering and condescending now? This has nothing to do with "white guilt".

quote:

I'll be over here trying to win elections to actually help marginalized people.

Are you aware that black people and various Spanish-speaking people and women are also marginalized? I mean are you really this blind?

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:14

Elephant Ambush: Nov 13, 2012; ...We sholde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?; Nap Ghost

big black turnout posted:

so it hasn't then that's what I thought thanks

What the gently caress. There is literally a video.

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:15

Elephant Ambush: Nov 13, 2012; ...We sholde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?; Nap Ghost

bump_fn posted:

"who do you think is a more active threat to you and your family's well-being right now: a scared kid who is now homeless cause he told his dad he was gay and got kicked out or a billionaire robber baron actively petitioning the government to make sure you and your family dont get basic medical service, which is a human right unless you believe that "life" in "life liberty etc" doesn't actually refer to staying alive"

hth

Hey cool way to make it an either/or problem which reinforces exactly what I keep seeing in this thread. I thought we could do both at the same time.

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:16

Elephant Ambush: Nov 13, 2012; ...We sholde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?; Nap Ghost

big black turnout posted:

millions of people are housing and food insecure, can't afford to use their insurance, etc... but let's talk about the real problem: not putting baby boys in pink

Once again, this is an either/or argument when I thought we could do economic and social justice at the same time.

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:18

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

please stay focused, socialist ghost diaspora!

Proud Christian Mom posted:

Democrats don't need the votes of cheering bigots, but they do need to stop pretending that they haven't been deep-dicking working people for a long time and maybe remember the things the party of labor once represented.

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:19

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

Absolutely nobody ITT was "giving bigotry a pass" and I have no idea how it could be interpreted that way.

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:20

GOOD TIMES ON METH: Mar 17, 2006; Fun Shoe

Trump won because tons people viewed the party that brought about NAFTA and were banging the drum for TPP were the robber barons, not Trump, and the economy has sucked for them for decades. Not because some guy in your hometown hates Mexicans or something.

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:20

Pollyanna: Mar 5, 2005; Milk's on them.

i can tell you that a whole bunch of people are turned off by neglecting idpol for ecpol just as much as they are vice versa. class and identity are two intersecting dimensions we need to cover.

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:20

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

paranoid randroid posted:

realtalk its kind of obnoxious when people handwave coastal voters as being coddled pearl-clutchers, as if a lot of them arent in just as tenuous a position as heartland trump voters

yeah, but at least they've got pearls they can pawn

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:21

Michael Bayleaf: Jun 4, 2006; Tortured By Flan

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Absolutely nobody ITT was "giving bigotry a pass" and I have no idea how it could be interpreted that way.

I was.

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:21

big black turnout: Jan 13, 2009; Fallen Rib

realtalk: the second most infuriating thing about "but would it end racism?" is the implication that a political party can end racism. the best thing we can do is take away the tools to enforce various bigotry from the capitalist class.you're not going to convince some random hick that he should put his infant son in a skirt or whatever but if you can ease the material conditions for him, maybe it won't be so easy to rile up his bigotry

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:21

Pollyanna: Mar 5, 2005; Milk's on them.

there is no room for racism, sexism, or bigotry in my society :colbert:

and there sure as hell isn't any room for capitalism :ssh:

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:21

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

Michael Bayleaf posted:

I was.

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:21

Thoguh: Nov 8, 2002; College Slice

Jonny 290 posted:

infant and child mortality is sky loving high in flyovers and a lot of southerners/poor whites have had a baby die or a close family member that had a baby die, and they do not understand how somebody could willingly do that

"flyovers" is a pretty broad area that includes a number of large cities with access to really good healthcare.

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:22

logikv9: Mar 5, 2009; Ham Wrangler

if you live anywhere near a coast you're immediately part of the top 10% of america

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:22

big black turnout: Jan 13, 2009; Fallen Rib

Elephant Ambush posted:

What the gently caress. There is literally a video.

the video of the stopped suv that slowly goes forward through a line of protestors that parts for them to go through?

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:23

theres a will theres moe: Jan 10, 2007; Hair Elf

Proud Christian Mom posted:

Democrats don't need the votes of cheering bigots, but they do need to stop pretending that they haven't been deep-dicking working people for a long time and maybe remember the things the party of labor once represented.

Well it seems like we're trying to fix this what with overhauling the top-end that disenfranchised a shitload of us and lost us an election

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:23

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

the utter lack of public transportation means they can't exactly go there whenever they need to or please though

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:23

Pollyanna: Mar 5, 2005; Milk's on them.

logikv9 posted:

if you live anywhere near a coast you're immediately part of the top 10% of america

i live in boston does that make me scum???

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:24

Elephant Ambush: Nov 13, 2012; ...We sholde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?; Nap Ghost

Pollyanna posted:

i can tell you that a whole bunch of people are turned off by neglecting idpol for ecpol just as much as they are vice versa. class and identity are two intersecting dimensions we need to cover.

I don't really like idpol either because, as has been pointed out a lot ITT, it pits minorities against each other for the "least poorly treated minority" title and that sucks. But as a whte dude I'm certainly not going to tell minorities that their fears are unfounded.

# ? Dec 20, 2016 01:24