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Scionix posted:im honestly unsure what RLM wants out of star wars. I think, if we're going to get 10 more years of Star War, they want films that aren't referencing the original trilogy, something every SW property has done for decades now. That's the catch though. The Force Awakens, and now Rogue One, are showing the only value Star Wars is perceived to have by Disney is in referencing episodes 4 through 6 in future films. Episode 8 isn't going to tell its own story, it's going to keep making Yoda quotes and Kessel Run references, and we're going to hear nerds crow about how great it is that the next film ends on a dark note Just like Empire(!).
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Dec 20, 2016 08:44
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Scionix posted:im honestly unsure what RLM wants out of star wars. the prequels were boring we didn't care about any of the characters it's supposed to be a space opera with future ninja wizards ehhhhhhhhhh TFA was too cartoony they had too many quips and callbacks ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I don't care about any of the characters in rogue one again I hate star wars fans ehhhhhhhhhhh I think, to sum up what they want, they said they want good characters and good stories. The originals had good characters and good stories. The prequels had meh to OK characters and terrible stories. TFA had great characters and a rehashed story. RO had a bleh story (except for the last awesome act) and meh characters. This had been the main thing they've driven home with every review, from the very first part of the TPM review to this last one for RO. They want fun, relatable characters participating in an engaging story. As far as fanservice, part of what I think they're getting at isn't necessarily the inclusion of elements but the way these elements are called out. Like that first Darth Vader scene; in the originals he didn't need a giant Dracula-esque shadow and dramatic smoke and backlighting and etc. to signify his reveal, he just steps out of the lightly smoking doorway and there he is. Not once do the movies ever need to scream "here's Vader!" or "here's AT-ATs!!!!" or etc., yeah they get some subtle introduction but they all kinda exist and stand on their own because they're inherently badass as it is. Here, every nod to the original has to have some amount of fanfare: the cutaway to Pondu Baboo and Friend, the cutaway to Threepio/Artoo, the Vader reveal, etc. And after seeing this kind of thing in so many movies, the ol' nostalgia synapse is starting to get burnt out from continually having that bright a light shown in it. I don't feel smart for catching things anymore; they're all calculated and called out just to get that initial reaction that doesn't really hold up on subsequent viewings.
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Dec 20, 2016 09:07
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but I mean the original trilogy wasn't really big at all on world building, so how do you get around having some sort of event tangentially related to the OT as your starting point? Everyone loves to poo poo on the kooky EU stuff for being terrible but at the same time rolls their eyes at "look it's the dude with the balls for a chin." bioware release the tapes of kotor3 u hack frauds Scionix fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Dec 20, 2016 |
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Dec 20, 2016 09:07
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the only fanservice in r1 is the cantina guys, everything else is fine and makes sense from a story point of view
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Dec 20, 2016 09:16
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Whorelord posted:the only fanservice in r1 is the cantina guys, everything else is fine and makes sense from a story point of view Seriously? Random shots of R2 and 3-CPO for no reason isn't fan service?
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Dec 20, 2016 09:17
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The giant Death Star in Episode 7 almost ruins the entire movie for me. I really, really hate that idea and I really wish JJ Abrams had gone with something more original. But that's what these new Star Wars movies are going to be: retreads and mash-ups of the original trilogy. At least the prequels had new stuff in them. No I'm not a "prequel apologist" or whatever but I actually liked some of what Lucas created for the prequels. I liked Coruscant, the arena battle, the clone facility on that ocean planet, and some of the weird Jedi aliens (like that one guy that looks like a dinosaur). The prequels were executed poorly but Lucas was pretty creative. He didn't try to do the Death Star concept for a third loving time. But these new Star Wars movies are more by-the-numbers, design-by-committee. "People like the original movies, so make these ones more like those: classic Stormtroopers, X-wings, tie fighters, the Death Star, etc.; that's what people wanna see" is probably how the executive meetings went. No original ideas. People poo poo on the gungans and the weird bug people on Geonosis, but at least they were new. And I actually kinda liked the bug people. I actually liked the underwater bubble cities on Naboo. We're not going to see anything nearly as weird as those in any of these new movies. As for Rogue One...it okay, I guess. I thought the beginning was too confusing by jumping around to different planets, introducing too many characters too quickly. I also didn't like the gritty tone.
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Dec 20, 2016 09:18
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Scionix posted:but I mean the original trilogy wasn't really big at all on world building, so how do you get around having some sort of event tangentially related to the OT as your starting point? "Luke Skywalker is missing!' was an excellent starting hook. It gives you everything you need to jump from the original trilogy into your own story. But if you faff about and decide to hit the plot beats of Star Wars instead, you're squandering your opportunity.
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Dec 20, 2016 09:18
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Blazing Ownager posted:Seriously? Random shots of R2 and 3-CPO for no reason isn't fan service? they're droids owned by Leia and her family, why wouldn't they be there? also they're the only characters who've appeared in every film so they may have also been contractually obligated
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Dec 20, 2016 09:23
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Whorelord posted:the only fanservice in r1 is the cantina guys, everything else is fine and makes sense from a story point of view wow
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Dec 20, 2016 09:25
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C3PO was made by Darth Vader and they never got reunited
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Dec 20, 2016 09:25
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Whorelord posted:they're droids owned by Leia and her family, why wouldn't they be there? It's a difference between making logical sense and making good, entertainment sense. Yeah of course they'd be around, they were on the Tantive IV, but why was it necessary to show them? They have a perfectly good intro in ANH, we don't need to see them, they add literally nothing, esp. in light of certain other parts of the movie lacking which I think is the whole point of the review. Time that could've gone towards building up the characters get thrown at this unnecessary stuff.
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Dec 20, 2016 09:37
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turnways posted:It's a difference between making logical sense and making good, entertainment sense. shots of cantina guys, blue milk, leia, R2 + c3p0 were in the film for like 5 seconds, they didn't cost anyone character development any other old characters have an effect on the plot so they aren't really fanservice. I mean I don't know how you'll tell a story about the death star without including tarkin
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Dec 20, 2016 09:50
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The callbacks are barely in the movie, so who cares? It's like the space chess thing in TFA was dumb too, but it's like 2 seconds so who could possibly give a poo poo? But then there's folks who're real dumb and think the existence of TIE fighters and AT-ATs are "fan service." They should probably just not watch Star Wars movies at all.
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Dec 20, 2016 10:08
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PostNouveau posted:The callbacks are barely in the movie, so who cares? It's like the space chess thing in TFA was dumb too, but it's like 2 seconds so who could possibly give a poo poo? yeah there's definitely a lack of character development but blaming this on cantina guys and r2d2 is bizarre
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Dec 20, 2016 10:21
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Guy Goodbody posted:did any of you guys want to know the backstory of the doctor puppet from Star Wars 5? I never understood why he had that tube thing going to his mouth area. Does he need to breath or something
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Dec 20, 2016 10:25
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the only fanservice thing that wasn't that good was the C3PO/R2D2 one. i suppose the shoehorning in of Obi-Wan was a bit out of place but not bad, really the audience when i saw it wasn't shouting about callbacks at all. the annoying part was a girl behind me, standing up and chewing popcorn so that it was directly in my ear, and asking her dad who every character was. A+ parenting job, dad
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Dec 20, 2016 10:26
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What the poo poo RLM? You fan wank over TFA, but suddenly story critical characters and period accurate technology are verboten? You judged the movie based on the loving audience? You complained it wasn't a heist movie when it was clearly sold as a dirty dozen movie? How do you miss the awesome sight of the Death Star breaking the horizon? Heck even the space battle was period accurate in how they framed it, they even look like the toys they are made from. I could go on and on. TFA is a poo poo movie. What a loving troll review. turnways posted:It's a difference between making logical sense and making good, entertainment sense. They needed to connect the end of R1 to ANH. It filled in why Vadar knew who to chase, why he is so pissed off and how Leia got the plans. Showing the Tantive IV costed no more than 30 seconds in a plot critical moment. It showed how desperate the struggle was as the troopers pass the plans on. Vadar gets somewhat rehabilitated into a badass who is rightly feared. What was a waste of time was when Kerrinc begged Vadar for an audience with the Emperor. That was truly fan wank and needed to be cut.
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Dec 20, 2016 10:27
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PostNouveau posted:The callbacks are barely in the movie, so who cares? It's like the space chess thing in TFA was dumb too, but it's like 2 seconds so who could possibly give a poo poo? It's more in the way things like that are depicted in the new movies. Part of the charm of the originals (due to lucas' Mastery of film) was how all the amazing fantastical stuff is treated as normal and humdrum. For instance, when we see the holo chess thing, it's down in the bottom of the shot and little attention is given it. It just blends in with every thing else. In the new movie, when they switch it on there is soaring orchestra music and the camera zooms in tight and intimate with one of the actors faces in the shot with wonder and awe as he gazes on this NERDGASM CALLBACK CAMEO and it just seems so dumb and contrived and I wish George was back he would never let that happen
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Dec 20, 2016 10:30
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Here is the problem, 17 year old me would have thought these new movies where the greatest work of art in human history and that right there is enough reason for me to hate them
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Dec 20, 2016 10:33
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oohhboy posted:What was a waste of time was when Kerrinc begged Vadar for an audience with the Emperor. That was truly fan wank and needed to be cut. then we wouldnt get vader making a dad joke could we move it to the hallway scene
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Dec 20, 2016 10:34
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The gently caress is a period accurate space battle?
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Dec 20, 2016 10:38
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So turns out Lucas was right all along in not wanting to make any other movies after the first three.
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Dec 20, 2016 10:39
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Lotta bad opinions in this thread defending their tween space adventure. Those big meanies at RLM dont like my nerd service film. WAHHHHHHHH!.
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Dec 20, 2016 10:39
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Trunko posted:So turns out Lucas was right all along in not wanting to make any other movies after the first three. It was a mistake to make more after Star Wars. This whole thing was way better when it was just Lucas making an offbeat tribute to cinema. Now it's this deified idiot franchise, existing only to churn out money for the Disney™ Corporation.
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Dec 20, 2016 10:44
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They gave TFA a pass for retread because as they say, it needed to be. It's only after that one that fan service and old plot points have to stop, they covered it in TFA hitb.
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Dec 20, 2016 10:47
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JB50 posted:Lotta bad opinions in this thread defending their tween space adventure. Those big meanies at RLM dont like my nerd service film. WAHHHHHHHH!. "at-ats are fanservice" - mike stoklasa
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Dec 20, 2016 10:53
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Nanomashoes posted:The gently caress is a period accurate space battle? It was shot, edited and framed like ANH and RotJ was. It most definitely didn't shake cam during those sequences like TFA did. The Star destroyers look like the plastic toys from the original, it was all CGI but they intentionally made it look like it was made in the 80's oppose to TFA which looks like Nu-Star Trek. Wicker Man posted:They gave TFA a pass for retread because as they say, it needed to be. It's only after that one that fan service and old plot points have to stop, they covered it in TFA hitb. It didn't need to be this way and it made for a bad movie.
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Dec 20, 2016 10:58
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oohhboy posted:It was shot, edited and framed like ANH and RotJ was. It most definitely didn't shake cam during those sequences like TFA did. The Star destroyers look like the plastic toys from the original, it was all CGI but they intentionally made it look like it was made in the 80's oppose to TFA which looks like Nu-Star Trek. That seems dumb and bad. You shouldn't try to mimic the technical limitations of 40 year old movies with CGI, but instead surpass them. Makes it sound like dumb fanboy bait, just like Mike and Jay said.
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Dec 20, 2016 11:27
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Nanomashoes posted:That seems dumb and bad. You shouldn't try to mimic the technical limitations of 40 year old movies with CGI, but instead surpass them. Makes it sound like dumb fanboy bait, just like Mike and Jay said. Yeah, Lucas was definitely right to add stupid CGI aliens in special editions.
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Dec 20, 2016 11:47
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We Know Catheters posted:Star Wars is trash and they explained why the movie was bad. A+ review
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Dec 20, 2016 11:47
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Whorelord posted:the only fanservice in r1 is the cantina guys, everything else is fine and makes sense from a story point of view Did you watch the same film everyone else did
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Dec 20, 2016 11:49
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Shaking camera, the best technological advancement in cinema since the invention of colour film.
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Dec 20, 2016 11:50
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They legit should have added more film grain throughout, the random shots of the fighter pilots looking grainy as poo poo was bizarre.
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Dec 20, 2016 11:58
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Whorelord posted:yeah there's definitely a lack of character development but blaming this on cantina guys and r2d2 is bizarre It's not direct causation, just concurrent. There was a lack of pointed character-driven lines and an excess of lines that didn't directly serve the movie. More would've had to be trimmed to get those characters interesting but taking out the minor pointless nostalgia-bait stuff would've been a start. oohhboy posted:They needed to connect the end of R1 to ANH. It filled in why Vadar knew who to chase, why he is so pissed off and how Leia got the plans. Showing the Tantive IV costed no more than 30 seconds in a plot critical moment. It showed how desperate the struggle was as the troopers pass the plans on. Vadar gets somewhat rehabilitated into a badass who is rightly feared. I didn't mention Vader though, I was talking about Threepio/Artoo and their little cameo. Though, I also don't think it was super necessary to show Vader spotting the Tantive IV peeling out to get why he *knew* it was that ship; ANH made it seem like he was smart and cunning and using the Force to suss out what was going on, since he was a stone cold intuitive badass, and now he's just a guy who saw something. Anyone could've spotted that ship. Though I thought the ending bit with Vader was one of the best parts of the film, so I don't mind that as much. I also didn't think Leia was necessary either; she got the plans like she always got the plans, from Rebels. End of RO, plans are with the Rebels, beginning of ANH, plans are with a Rebel, and it's not that far of a mental leap. I don't think it's super necessary to show every baton pass (how did the Rebels get from Yavin IV to Hoth? Find out in 2019's Rogue One Two!) as that's an easy deduction to make when they kinda gloss over what the heck she was doing there in the Tantive IV in the first place. The last thing we heard about her was from her surrogate father saying he was heading to Alderaan to get his daughter to contact Obi-Wan, and then suddenly she's in a parked escape ship during a super dangerous mission doing basically nothing but waiting, which is just weird. Edit: Totally agree with you about that scene though, that was just absolutely pointless turnways fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Dec 20, 2016 |
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Dec 20, 2016 12:02
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It was kind of thematically important to show the plans reach Leia. It's all about little things resulting in a big thing. The weakness in the death star design is very small, but it sets in motion a chain of events that blows up the whole thing. So every guard on Leia's ship is important to set up Luke's hero journey. It only works for me because it's a one-off. If they try to go with that same theme for the next standalone movie, it's going to be nothing but trash. Also, thinking more about fan-service, I appreciate that they managed to get just one light sabre.
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Dec 20, 2016 12:46
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oohhboy posted:It was shot, edited and framed like ANH and RotJ was. It most definitely didn't shake cam during those sequences like TFA did. The Star destroyers look like the plastic toys from the original, it was all CGI but they intentionally made it look like it was made in the 80's oppose to TFA which looks like Nu-Star Trek. two christmases ago i crushed my pinkie toe in a closing metal door and i heard the bone splinter and crack and this post is making my brain feel the way my toe did that christmas
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Dec 20, 2016 13:22
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turnways posted:It's not direct causation, just concurrent. There was a lack of pointed character-driven lines and an excess of lines that didn't directly serve the movie. More would've had to be trimmed to get those characters interesting but taking out the minor pointless nostalgia-bait stuff would've been a start. I am not sure what lead you to see Vadar is smart and cunning in ANH in regards to his investigative skills. You can't intuitive something from nothing. It was definitely a show, not tell moment R1, it links to ANH so things aren't happening in a vacuum. Also using the force arbitrarily is BS. If Vadar was so good and the Force so strong, why didn't he figure out Leia was his daughter with the force? The problem with the force is the same problem using super weapons and having Jedi/Sith everywhere, it stops being cool and descends into Dragon Ball Z power level rubbish and secret attacks, see: Sun Sucker, Darth Maul, Yoda light sabre fight. It's why in the OT Force usage was so restrained, it was to avoid having super powered characters like you saw in the old EU where Force powered people could do just about anything. The best stories from the EU had virtually no Force and no Jedi/Sith. Plus if the Force is so powerful why did Tarkin berate Vadar over his failure to retrieve the plans or to divine the location of the rebel base?. Also what Paladinus said. It was great we only saw one light sabre for a moment and no Jedi with none of the flashy dancing, just Vadar going at it. They have plenty of background options to go in another direction for the next movie. With the Bothans stealing the DS2 plans RLM can get their heist/spy movie and find out why these guys were so good at spying. Hopefully it ends in a spy like fashion with a dead drop. Trunko posted:two christmases ago i crushed my pinkie toe in a closing metal door and i heard the bone splinter and crack and this post is making my brain feel the way my toe did that christmas I am ok with this, enjoy the pain. It was an artistic direction I enjoyed. Suppose you would like to complain about the period accurate visual displays and technology too?
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Dec 20, 2016 13:42
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i loving love star wars
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Dec 20, 2016 13:47
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LordArgh posted:i loving love star wars different
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Dec 20, 2016 14:32
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Trunko posted:I never understood why he had that tube thing going to his mouth area. Does he need to breath or something It is so he can spit out of his face grill onto rude patients.
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Dec 20, 2016 16:16
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