Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

Araganzar posted:

It's also a huge nerf to necromutation, since now you can't heal or haste at all. Guess a lot more people will be taking revivification or ddoor....

That didn't even occur to me, since I can count the number of times I have had access to and the ability to cast necromutation on the fingers of one foot.

Maybe it's time to let mummies and liches drink. They have mouths!

edit: now with quote so this makes sense on the new page

Prism fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Dec 21, 2016

# ? Dec 21, 2016 07:13

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# ? May 13, 2024 21:57

tote up a bags: Jun 8, 2006; die stoats die

Can't wait to get hosed on by silent spectres now there's no way to teleport without reading :o

# ? Dec 21, 2016 07:45

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Oh yeah now silence is super lethal.

Better hope Mennas doesn't spawn early!

# ? Dec 21, 2016 08:03

ThermosAquaticus: Nov 9, 2013

Zot 5 is pretty rough when both lung entrances have permanent teleport traps huh.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 10:17

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

Bring back shadow traps and only allow them to appear in lung entrances.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 10:37

Elusif: Jun 9, 2008

Shatter is the best spell.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 10:40

tote up a bags: Jun 8, 2006; die stoats die

E Equals MC Hammer posted:

Shatter is the best spell.

weird way to spell summon forest

# ? Dec 21, 2016 10:57

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

quote:

The new Sandblast works like Sticks to Snakes: consumes a missile in
your inventory to power the spell. There is no fallback anymore for this
spell, if you're out of stones you can no longer cast Sandblast.

RIP Ogre/Troll Earth Elementalists. (Not really, they'll still be fine.)

This got overlooked because of the wands, but legit RIP earth elementalists. Stone arrow has terrible mana efficiency compared to stoneblast and you burned through stones really quickly if you were leaning on stone blasts. The number of level 1 spellcasts you typically use easily outstrips the number of stones you can find. I mean, you can probably still be fine by rationing and using stone arrow more but it makes EE even more annoying, and it was already a very fiddly pure caster start. I guess if you want to play with earth spells you should pick any other start and branch to it.

TrEE could probably survive by using claws but at that point why not TrNe? _{(Because gimmick word combos are great)}

# ? Dec 21, 2016 12:16

Carcer: Aug 7, 2010

I asked here why sandblast didn't autouse stones from your inventory. I should have expected that some sort of potentially crippling disadvantage be added as well.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 12:55

Elusif: Jun 9, 2008

tote up a bags posted:

weird way to spell summon forest

I was about to say "you can't break through walls with summon forest" but if you have enough time and a fire spell I guess you can.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 12:56

Elusif: Jun 9, 2008

It never occurred to me that I could just shatter the slime walls away and not get burnt.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 13:43

PlasticAutomaton: Nov 12, 2016; Artoria Pendonut

And as a side effect of Lichform getting nerfed, we're pretty much down another effective way to deal with Malmutate and Torment.

Never do extended ever.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 13:53

Elusif: Jun 9, 2008

I just did hells of extended including pan scumming for 60 floors, I didn't get as mutated as I expected. Granted, thanks to ashe, I can fling out all 4 of the good AOE murder spells.

That +12 artefact dragon armour I ran into on D:5 really made this run great. Also the +5 artefact elec demon blade was hecka good.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 13:56

Elusif: Jun 9, 2008

code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19.0 (tiles) character file.

12782707 Frank the Conqueror (level 27, 220/220 (224) HPs)
             Began as a Demonspawn Artificer on Dec 17, 2016.
             Was the Champion of Ashenzari.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 15 runes on Dec 21, 2016!
             
             The game lasted 11:38:21 (131399 turns).

Frank the Conqueror (Demonspawn Artificer)        Turns: 131399, Time: 11:38:22

HP:   220/220 (224) AC: 33    Str: 27    XL:     27
MP:   54/54         EV: 34    Int: 29    God:    Ashenzari [******]
Gold: 8212          SH: 20    Dex: 24    Spells: 10 memorised, 4 levels left

rFire  + + +      SeeInvis +    Z - +5 demon blade {elec, rF+ Str-3 Int+4 Dex+3} (curse)
rCold  + + +      Gourm    .    O - +12 fire dragon scales of Omuosm {rF++ rC- Int+2} (curse)
rNeg   + + +      Faith    .    A - +0 shield of the Thinker {+Fly rN+ Dex+3} (curse)
rPois  +          Spirit   .    k - -2 hat of the Alchemist {rElec rPois rF+ rC+ rN+ MR+ rMut rCorr} (curse)
rElec  +          Reflect  .    L - +0 cloak of Quantum Leap {rPois rC++ Str+2} (curse)
rCorr  +          Harm     .    w - +0 pair of gloves "Ucum" {rPois rC- rCorr Int+6} (curse)
rMut   +          Clarity  +    (boots unavailable)
MR     +++++                    b - amulet of the Four Winds {rN+ MR+++ Clar} (curse)
Stlth  ..........               m - ring "Xomipic" {rC- MR+ Str+7 Int+2 Slay+3} (curse)
                                Q - ring of Tuz Daiq {rElec rPois rC+++ Int-2 Slay+3} (curse)

@: no status effects
A: talons 3, see invisible, agile 1, clarity, fire resistance 1, frail 1, magic
resistance 1, mutation resistance 2, powered by death 3, powered by pain 3,
regeneration 1, screaming 1, shaggy fur 1, strong 1, augmentation 3, MP-powered
wands, sturdy frame 3
a: Curse Item, Scrying, Transfer Knowledge, Renounce Religion, Evoke Flight
0: Orb of Zot
}: 15/15 runes: serpentine, barnacled, slimy, silver, golden, iron, obsidian,
icy, bone, abyssal, demonic, glowing, magical, fiery, dark


You escaped.
You worshipped Ashenzari.
Ashenzari was exalted by your worship.
You were very full.

You visited 18 branches of the dungeon, and saw 90 of its levels.
You visited Pandemonium 2 times, and saw 65 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 4 times.
You visited 1 bazaar.
You completed 1 ziggurat, and saw 27 of its levels.
You also visited: Trove, Sewer, Ice Cave and Wizlab.

You collected 24467 gold pieces.
You spent 16255 gold pieces at shops.

code:

   Skills:
 O Level 27 Fighting
   Level 0.0(17.8) Short Blades
 - Level 25.8(27) Long Blades
 O Level 27 Crossbows
 - Level 25.4(27) Armour
 + Level 26.3(27) Dodging
 - Level 0.5 Stealth
 - Level 24.1(26.1) Shields
 O Level 27 Spellcasting
 - Level 25.3(27) Conjurations
 - Level 17.6(21.3) Hexes
 - Level 10.1(14.4) Charms
   Level 7.4(11.9) Summonings
 - Level 13.5(17.5) Necromancy
 - Level 7.6(12.1) Transmutations
 O Level 27 Fire Magic
 - Level 22.8(26.1) Ice Magic
 - Level 23.9(27) Air Magic
 - Level 23.7(27) Earth Magic
 - Level 5.8(10.3) Evocations


You had 4 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Irradiate             Conj/Tmut      ########..   0%          5    None
b - Discord               Hex            #########.   1%          8    ###....
c - Ring of Flames        Chrm/Fire      #########.   1%          7    None
d - Freezing Cloud        Conj/Ice/Air   #########.   0%          6    None
e - Shatter               Erth           #########.   2%          9    #####..
f - Tornado               Air            #########.   2%          9    #####..
g - Infestation           Necr           ########..   4%          8    ###....
h - Glaciate              Conj/Ice       #########.   3%          9    #####..
i - Fire Storm            Conj/Fire      #########.   2%          9    #####..
j - Statue Form           Tmut/Erth      ########.    1%          6    None

code:

Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have claws for feet.
You regenerate a lot of health from kills.
You are powered by pain.
Your magical and physical power is greatly enhanced at high health.
Your movements are significantly less encumbered by armour. (ER -6)
You have supernaturally acute eyesight. (SInv)
You are agile. (Dex +2)
You possess an exceptional clarity of mind.
Your flesh is heat resistant. (rF+)
You are frail. (-10% HP)
You are resistant to hostile enchantments. (MR+)
You are somewhat resistant to both further mutation and mutation removal.
Your natural rate of healing is unusually fast.
You occasionally shout uncontrollably at your foes.
You are covered in fur. (AC +1)
Your muscles are strong. (Str +2)
You expend magic power (3 MP) to strengthen your wands.

Elusif fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Dec 21, 2016

# ? Dec 21, 2016 14:40

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

I like how removing the good wands, a very major change, wasn't mentioned or alluded to in the Dev Wiki's 0.20 planning page. Nor was there any discussion on the Tavern. Just dpeg coming to SA to troll us for a week before committing it.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 15:09

Elusif: Jun 9, 2008

Maybe a goon ran over his dog or something? We can always just run our own copies with whatever changes removed.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 15:13

Can Of Worms: Sep 4, 2011; That's not how the Triangle Attack works...

E Equals MC Hammer posted:

I was about to say "you can't break through walls with summon forest" but if you have enough time and a fire spell I guess you can.

You can't destroy summoned trees, actually.

Speleothing posted:

I like how removing the good wands, a very major change, wasn't mentioned or alluded to in the Dev Wiki's 0.20 planning page. Nor was there any discussion on the Tavern. Just dpeg coming to SA to troll us for a week before committing it.

It was brout up in the mailing list speg linked to, and the dev irc channel (which is logged!!!)

# ? Dec 21, 2016 15:36

tweet my meat: Oct 2, 2013; yospos

I'm fine with the changes personally, even being a beginner I've seen how wildy powerful those effects can be when attatched to a wand rather than a consumable. It would be nice to see more of their long term replacement plans though. With healing wands gone, mummies especially are gonna suck for a while, though I like how they handled the DD with a racial ability.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 15:43

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

I just do not give a gently caress about mummies.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 15:44

Obfuscation: Jan 1, 2008; Good luck to you, I know you believe in hell

Please remove mummies and make vampires good, tia

# ? Dec 21, 2016 15:50

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

I like Mummies

They were my first ever 15-rune.

Speaking of, I lose another gently caress-off good Ant-man to a Crypt ending that was filled to the brim with monsters from the Tomb. That was fun! Nothing like getting death cursed to hell and back and then having a Greater Mummy summon all his buds around me. I did play poorly because I was in a tab-fugue and wasn't expecting a Greater Mummy to be at the Crypt end but goddam was I frustrated because I hate doing Tomb and what the hell was Tomb doing in my Crypt?

# ? Dec 21, 2016 15:59

Elusif: Jun 9, 2008

In that super 15 rune run I just had my greatest fears were greater mummies and hell sentinels. gently caress those guys!

# ? Dec 21, 2016 16:00

taqueso: Mar 8, 2004

Ugly John posted:

From a technical perspective, yes. Not everything has been great. Race removals and the wand swap (not the upcoming removal) are two that stick out off the top of my head.

At this point, I probably should just fork the game into my own little private branch and start changing things to put in what I want, but I only play webtiles and not having a way to play anywhere through a browser would be a deal-breaker.

You can run a local webtiles server real easy if you are able to build from source.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 16:07

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

This is once again a change I am happy with, but frustrated that all the cascading consequences for doing so haven't been corrected before committing. Hopefully they get fixed faster than removing rMut has fixed mutations!

Internet Kraken posted:

Oh yeah now silence is super lethal.

Better hope Mennas doesn't spawn early!

Time to HOM by carrying a ring of teleportation and avoiding clearing the entire level in order to have a chance to escape Mennas/Ereshkigal!

Also mummy and lichform are hosed, just let them drink potions at this point because lich form still can't use the better high level necro spells and mummies will still be hot garbage.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 16:15

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

Yeah they should probably be able to drink potions now. Lich form was already not that great, and mummies have always been garbage.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 16:19

Carcer: Aug 7, 2010

Speleothing posted:

I like how removing the good wands, a very major change, wasn't mentioned or alluded to in the Dev Wiki's 0.20 planning page. Nor was there any discussion on the Tavern. Just dpeg coming to SA to troll us for a week before committing it.

Careful, dpeg might take his ball and go home if we keep on criticizing him here.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 16:21

taqueso: Mar 8, 2004

Floodkiller posted:

This is once again a change I am happy with, but frustrated that all the cascading consequences for doing so haven't been corrected before committing. Hopefully they get fixed faster than removing rMut has fixed mutations!

If you can code, you could work up some fixes to whatever you think has been left unbalanced. I'm sure they will give your ideas a fair shake, the devs are incredibly responsive and accommodating of beginners. Crawl has been the nicest pull-request experiences I've had.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 16:21

MOVIE MAJICK: Jan 4, 2012; by Pragmatica

Is it possible to play this without a num pad? What's the best setup for movement?

# ? Dec 21, 2016 16:23

Elusif: Jun 9, 2008

This really was a buff to wands of random effects.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 16:24

Elusif: Jun 9, 2008

MOVIE MAJICK posted:

Is it possible to play this without a num pad? What's the best setup for movement?

Click the tile you want to move to.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 16:24

taqueso: Mar 8, 2004

MOVIE MAJICK posted:

Is it possible to play this without a num pad? What's the best setup for movement?

I use arrow keys plus home/end/pgup/pgdn for diagonals. Before I realized that was possible, I used the non-numpad numbers for diagonals (1 = downleft, etc), which isn't too bad once you get some muscle memory going for it, but the home/end keys are arranged in the right shape so they are much better. There are also letter diagonals (and orthogonal moves that I think match vi), but I can never remember those.

e: related to keys, is there a way to allow ctrl-q work in firefox without being intercepted by the browser?

# ? Dec 21, 2016 16:26

Ugly John: Jul 18, 2009; [img]https://forums.somethingawful.com/attachment.php?postid=514899866[/img]

MOVIE MAJICK posted:

Is it possible to play this without a num pad? What's the best setup for movement?

Someone will inevitably come in and tell you to use the hijuybmn keys. These people are madmen and not to be trusted.

taqueso posted:

You can run a local webtiles server real easy if you are able to build from source.

Sure, but I'm actually a weirdo who plays from multiple different locations, so I'd need to have it hosted somewhere.

I know this isn't some insurmountable task, but it's just enough of an irritation to deter me.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 16:31

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

taqueso posted:

I use arrow keys plus home/end/pgup/pgdn for diagonals. Before I realized that was possible, I used the non-numpad numbers for diagonals (1 = downleft, etc), which isn't too bad once you get some muscle memory going for it, but the home/end keys are arranged in the right shape so they are much better. There are also letter diagonals (and orthogonal moves that I think match vi), but I can never remember those.

e: related to keys, is there a way to allow ctrl-q work in firefox without being intercepted by the browser?

If you use * then q you should get the same effect, I use *w a lot.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 16:32

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

code:

Found a dark tunnel.
You swap places.
You swap places.
Your transformation is almost over.
Press: ? - help, v - describe, . - travel
Here: a lindwurm
The floor.
You fall through a shaft!
The shaft crumbles and collapses.
You hear a distant snort.
Hark! There is an entrance to a minotaur's labyrinth on this level. Find the entrance quickly before the gate is sealed!

Welp, guess I ain't doing that Volcano, but hey, I like Labyrinths more anyways.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 16:34

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Speleothing posted:

I like how removing the good wands, a very major change, wasn't mentioned or alluded to in the Dev Wiki's 0.20 planning page. Nor was there any discussion on the Tavern. Just dpeg coming to SA to troll us for a week before committing it.

The planning pages have never had much correspondence with what people actually decide to work on, at least not in the period i've been watching crawl development. We didn't bother having a planning page at all for 0.19, which might have been a stronger move in terms of player expectations!

Carcer posted:

I asked here why sandblast didn't autouse stones from your inventory. I should have expected that some sort of potentially crippling disadvantage be added as well.

The commit message isn't completely clear about the reasoning here. Here's the problem: if Sandblast autoused stones from your inventory but still worked without any stones, you'd be encouraged to drop your stones whenever you wanted to use the weak version. That's not really a net improvement in UI!

# ? Dec 21, 2016 16:36

MOVIE MAJICK: Jan 4, 2012; by Pragmatica

Add dual wielding please so shortblades can be usable end game

# ? Dec 21, 2016 16:49

dpeg: Jul 18, 2008; As far as I see it, you should never go to SA to look out for useful feedback or even interesting ideas; I certainly don't

Speleothing posted:

I like how removing the good wands, a very major change, wasn't mentioned or alluded to in the Dev Wiki's 0.20 planning page. Nor was there any discussion on the Tavern. Just dpeg coming to SA to troll us for a week before committing it.

I was about to say that SA coped with the removal way better than the tavern: the first posting about it linked the commits (something which tavern didn't manage until now), and comments have been sane. But thankfully Spidiothing comes to the rescue!

dpeg fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Dec 21, 2016

# ? Dec 21, 2016 16:59

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

people talked about wand removal on tavern for weeks and were mostly in favor of it(not once it actually went through, of course...)

MOVIE MAJICK posted:

Is it possible to play this without a num pad? What's the best setup for movement?

I rebound movement to
QWE
ASD
ZXC
and things on those keys moved elsewhere(ex: t is spell instead of z, y is eat). whenever I mention this there are people who tell me I'm crazy but I still hold the fastest realtime speedrun so fight me tbh

# ? Dec 21, 2016 17:00

Ugly John: Jul 18, 2009; [img]https://forums.somethingawful.com/attachment.php?postid=514899866[/img]

dpeg posted:

I was about to say that SA coped with the removal way better than the tavern: the first posting about linked the commits, and comments have been sane. But thankfully Spidiothing comes to the rescue!

Have you thought about maybe drinking a cure mut to get rid of your abnormally thin skin?

# ? Dec 21, 2016 17:02

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# ? May 13, 2024 21:57

dpeg: Jul 18, 2008; As far as I see it, you should never go to SA to look out for useful feedback or even interesting ideas; I certainly don't

Ugly John posted:

Have you thought about maybe drinking a cure mut to get rid of your abnormally thin skin?

I'll have a bottle of German beer and keep thinking you're all overprivileged American teenagers with bad spelling and fat bellies!

Happy now?

# ? Dec 21, 2016 17:03

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