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Ramadu posted:It's worse now because I know more about movies and now the movies are even worse though. I am really confused by this much irony posting. I can promise you that 99% of us defending the prequels are not posting ironically. Why would anyone do that? Perhaps you can tell us why they're "even worse"? Waffles Inc. fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Dec 21, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 15:52
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Ramadu posted:It's worse now because I know more about movies and now the movies are even worse though. I am really confused by this much irony posting. You confusion stems from your belief that people are irony posting.
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Dec 21, 2016 15:52
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I don't like star wars but I like rogue one that's what's so crazy about this!
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Dec 21, 2016 15:52
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"Episode 1 taught me at a young age that movies could be bad" is such hyperbolic garbage too. Like there were no movies in the history of movies before episode 1 you've seen where you were like "no thanks"? Did you see the Ewok movies? How did you enjoy those but not the prequels? If anything, the statement should read "episode 1 tore down my ideas that these movies are only mine and I shouldn't walk into films with preconceived notions on what they should be" because that kind of thinking only sets you up for disappointment (see: every miserable soul who claims to be a fan of the "Aliens" franchise instead of fans of the "Alien" films.)
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Dec 21, 2016 16:05
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Ramadu posted:Because none of us who find the movies awful have ever heard that they are good in our real life ever. Are you saying it's just evidence of an otherwise-unrelated lack of socialization?
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Dec 21, 2016 16:13
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It says it all though, really. A bunch of kids learned via the prequels that a movie, no matter how much its hyped in the media and in your own mind, may end up being a disappointment. Its so seared in their memory that to go back now, 15 years later, and reevaluate that opinion would be extremely difficult. When a memory is wrapped up in that much nostalgia and emotion, its impossible to say "the prequels aren't great but they have their positive aspects along with the negative". That's too wishy washy for people who were obsessed with Star Wars in the lead up to Episode 1 and ended up feeling burned by it.
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Dec 21, 2016 16:15
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This movie is about the workers Kevin smith was talking about in clerks. The imperial working stiff. Finally.
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Dec 21, 2016 16:15
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I've been recently hearing opinions that ANH is worst of the OT and not actually a good film at all.
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Dec 21, 2016 16:19
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Ramadu posted:It's worse now because I know more about movies and now the movies are even worse though. I am really confused by this much irony posting. Part of the problem is that George Lucas, separately from being a weak screenwriter, also does not subscribe to some modern conventions about how movies should be written. Modern films tend to eschew melodrama and theatrics in favor of what I would call "realistic fakeness": real people almost never have the snappy, rapid-fire banter you tend to see in more modern movies, but it's become a convention to hide the characters' vulnerabilities behind this layer of sarcasm or wit. Nobody bares their soul for the audience to see anymore. This standard makes it harder to confront audiences with raw pain, but it also keeps the viewers more comfortable. We'd all like to imagine that we're clever folks, and nobody ever wants to reveal their deepest wounds to everyone; that's why it's accepted as "more realistic," despite being the opposite. Lucas's characters do create masks of bravado, but they fall away in private. Anakin's outburst after killing the Sand People and Obi-Wan's anguished declaration of love for Anakin are particularly memorable. I would argue that something like the Anakin/Padme romance is much more authentically real than most. But it's a messed-up relationship presented in a very matter-of-fact way, and that's weird and off-putting.
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Dec 21, 2016 16:24
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rear end Catchcum posted:This movie is about the workers Kevin smith was talking about in clerks. The imperial working stiff. Finally. I would no-poo poo watch an actual movie about the regular folks just doing their day jobs under the Empire. Hell, make it an office comedy.
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Dec 21, 2016 16:27
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Basebf555 posted:It says it all though, really. A bunch of kids learned via the prequels that a movie, no matter how much its hyped in the media and in your own mind, may end up being a disappointment. Its so seared in their memory that to go back now, 15 years later, and reevaluate that opinion would be extremely difficult. When a memory is wrapped up in that much nostalgia and emotion, its impossible to say "the prequels aren't great but they have their positive aspects along with the negative". That's too wishy washy for people who were obsessed with Star Wars in the lead up to Episode 1 and ended up feeling burned by it. This is very true. When I saw episode I, I was 19. I won't lie, I walked out of that move a bit culture shocked, and at the time I was a bit of a fanboy, but I also took my 6 year old brother who loving loved it. I wasn't about to go "Hey, that movie sucked because it wasn't what I thought Star Wars should be". It made me evaluate the prequel trilogy on their own terms and seeing them filtered through the eyes of someone younger than me who didn't have those preconceived notions helped better understand that, and helped me appreciate the movies beyond a fanboy level. I have a friend at work nowadays who refuses to let his kids watch episode 1 (he swears by the machete order) which to me is the most miserable, petty thing. Unsurprisingly, he's a RLM acolyte and every time he says something about a movie, it's no doubt something he heard from that podcast (or whatever it is).
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Dec 21, 2016 16:31
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I think the prequels are bad because much of the plot and dialogue is contrived and hollow and Lucas traded in fantasy and mysticism for crap sci-fi. Here's some space science to explain space magic and some space politics to explain space war. Fart. Cash Monet fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Dec 21, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 16:39
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Cash Monet posted:I think the prequels are bad because much of the plot and dialogue is contrived and hollow and Lucas traded in fantasy and mysticism for crap sci-fi. My interpretation of the "Jedi aren't actually mystical" thing is... yes, the Jedi very much go against the mystical ways of the Force by trying to explain it with "space science". And what happens to them? The movies have an underlying theme about the arrogance of institutions, with the Jedi being a prime example of this. They have abandoned the spirituality of the Force for a more rational explanation, rejecting things like the prophecy. And they pay for it. Midichlorians are nothing more than pseudoscience, another indicator of how wrong the Jedi are.
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Dec 21, 2016 16:43
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Cash Monet posted:I think the prequels are bad because much of the plot and dialogue is contrived and hollow and Lucas traded in fantasy and mysticism for crap sci-fi. So... redlettermedia.txt then. This is like the Alien thread "finally we're getting the back story of the Space Jockey!" turns to "What the gently caress is this Prometheus poo poo, THIS IS NOT MY SPACE JOCKEY! Why did they have to ruin it by explaining things?!"
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Dec 21, 2016 16:47
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ruddiger posted:So... redlettermedia.txt then. What?
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Dec 21, 2016 16:50
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The great irony is that the plot is actually the most interesting of the PT but the execution is just awful on all levels. Most PT fanboys however don't really think that at all and have somehow accepted that "the clone wars is the coolest poo poo ever" clones! robots!, "the best lightsaber fight in the series" etc. So you get a really weird thing where people are arguing in here as well "Star Wars fan" this and that etc. what is a true scotsman guys. Ultimately it still ruins most of the PT (except ian mcdiarmid) for me because even though what the PT does with the political stuff (more radical than R1 tbh) you still have a movie to watch and most of it is pretty cringe inducing.
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Dec 21, 2016 16:52
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Cash Monet posted:I think the prequels are bad because much of the plot and dialogue is contrived and hollow and Lucas traded in fantasy and mysticism for crap sci-fi.
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Dec 21, 2016 16:54
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Nielsen posted:The great irony is that the plot is actually the most interesting of the PT but the execution is just awful on all levels. Most PT fanboys however don't really think that at all and have somehow accepted that "the clone wars is the coolest poo poo ever" clones! robots!, "the best lightsaber fight in the series" etc. So you get a really weird thing where people are arguing in here as well "Star Wars fan" this and that etc. what is a true scotsman guys. What? Who is saying these things?
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Dec 21, 2016 16:57
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ruddiger posted:I have a friend at work nowadays who refuses to let his kids watch episode 1 (he swears by the machete order) which to me is the most miserable, petty thing. If he's trying to shelter his kids, shouldn't he be throwing out the other two prequels as well? There's an uncomfortable amount of child abuse going on in those flicks. EDIT: Holy hell, I'm largely in lock step with SMG's take on Rogue One. What a world.
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Dec 21, 2016 16:57
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It's more redlettermedia.txt. If you like the prequels, you must like them for the reasons I think they are over-indulgent and stupid. In reality, people who give a positive appraisal to the prequels have all along been talking about cinematography, politics, meta-textuality, etc. Only fanboys give a poo poo about "how many lightsabers there are, and whether there's too many lightsabers so it ruins everything."
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Dec 21, 2016 16:58
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They're ugly movies with incredibly boring characters and tedious action scenes, this isn't rocket science. Even back when I watched them all as a teenager I thought there was something off about them, especially in comparison to the original movies. They really are incredibly hideous to look at.
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Dec 21, 2016 16:59
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Lord Hydronium posted:What in the prequels is more scientific than the Force being described as an energy field in its first mention in ANH? It takes a sharp turn after that, by the end of the movie its all in on space magic. Even more so in the next two.
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Dec 21, 2016 17:00
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Cash Monet posted:It takes a sharp turn after that, by the end of the movie its all in on space magic. Even more so in the next two. Can you elaborate on this? How does it take a sharp turn, and what makes it more magical in the next two films?
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Dec 21, 2016 17:02
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Serf posted:Can you elaborate on this? How does it take a sharp turn, and what makes it more magical in the next two films? Obi Wan vanishes after he's sliced down then he talks to luke as a ghost. Does it again in the next two. Yoda training Luke. Luke talking with Leia and Vader at the end of the second movie. Yoda vanishing after he dies. Luke seeing force ghosts at the end of the third movie. I feel like I'm forgetting some more.
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Dec 21, 2016 17:07
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Magic Hate Ball posted:They're ugly movies with incredibly boring characters and tedious action scenes, this isn't rocket science. Even back when I watched them all as a teenager I thought there was something off about them, especially in comparison to the original movies. They aren't hideous to look at, I couldn't disagree more. The aesthetics of the prequels are their biggest selling point in my opinion.
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Dec 21, 2016 17:10
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Cash Monet posted:It takes a sharp turn after that, by the end of the movie its all in on space magic. Even more so in the next two.
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Dec 21, 2016 17:10
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K. Waste posted:It's more redlettermedia.txt. If you like the prequels, you must like them for the reasons I think they are over-indulgent and stupid. ^ this but it's weird how people are clinging to "the prequels aren't garbage" in here though, and sometimes those are people who do praise those thigns but it's hard to tell who's who with whatever irony post people come up with. K. Waste posted:It's more redlettermedia.txt. Kinda dumb, they can be right as well as another viewpoint you know. R1 can be both good on some accounts but still have wafer thin characters. That's what I mean by the "star wars fan etc." people are throwing that around in favour of some argument but it's total bs. Serf posted:What? Who is saying these things? I do some SW modding and people overwhelmingly want clone wars stuff and there's threads about the most minute details etc. "Fans" take away a lot of the SF stuff and minute details instead of the broader message which is funny but then again the films undermine themselves in this regard as well by placating all fans and the toy stuff too, R1 is no exception with regards to this when they show CGI Leia on screen and whatever fan service, how can you expect people not to talk about that? SMGs post about Rogue One garbage truck is great but that still doesn't mean some characters are wafer thin, "show don't tell" is fine with Galen and his wife yes but Saw Guerrera / Jyn with her youth would've been stronger imo if they'd actually shown that instead of a dry "you haven't seen me for 16 yrs" Fact of the matter is that the people I was with found it very hard to empathise or root for these people until the latter half of the movie. "why should I care" was one of the complaints. rear end Catchcum posted:This movie is about the workers Kevin smith was talking about in clerks. The imperial working stiff. Finally. The scene with Galen, Krennic and Jyn as a kid at some imperial party or w/e was great, wish there was more of that.
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Dec 21, 2016 17:11
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Magic Hate Ball posted:They really are incredibly hideous to look at. I know this isn't "my" thing, but SMG's, but post a bad shot from the prequels. If they're that hideous you should be able to. I'll post a shot I like, first. This one is from AotC (sorry for the non-HD, my internet connection is wonky this morning)  I think this is composed beautifully. I love the flash gordon ship there in the desert. I love it all If you're a lover of cinema you genuinely cannot honestly say the prequels are hideous to look at--by any objective measure they're gorgeous. In fact I thought the one thing that people who don't like them concede is that they're pretty?
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Dec 21, 2016 17:13
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Cash Monet posted:Obi Wan vanishes after he's sliced down then he talks to luke as a ghost. Does it again in the next two. Yoda training Luke. Luke talking with Leia and Vader at the end of the second movie. Yoda vanishing after he dies. Luke seeing force ghosts at the end of the third movie. Pardon me here, but if the Force is an energy field created by all living things, that subsumes them then they die, how does that not square with your examples? Magic is still magic, regardless of the terminology used.
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Dec 21, 2016 17:13
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Waffles Inc. posted:If you're a lover of cinema you genuinely cannot honestly say the prequels are hideous to look at--by any objective measure they're gorgeous. In fact I thought the one thing that people who don't like them concede is that they're pretty? Yea but remember that one shot where the hallway wasn't lit very well? An entire trilogy ruined by a single hallway.
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Dec 21, 2016 17:16
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Serf posted:My interpretation of the "Jedi aren't actually mystical" thing is... yes, the Jedi very much go against the mystical ways of the Force by trying to explain it with "space science". And what happens to them? The movies have an underlying theme about the arrogance of institutions, with the Jedi being a prime example of this. They have abandoned the spirituality of the Force for a more rational explanation, rejecting things like the prophecy. And they pay for it. Midichlorians are nothing more than pseudoscience, another indicator of how wrong the Jedi are. The midichlorians aren't false indicators and the prophecy isn't wrong. But the Jedi do misunderstand them, in the same way that Anakin misunderstands his visions: they both assume that, if they do nothing to interfere, then events will unfold exactly the way they expect. Where Anakin over-reacts and ultimately destroys everything he loves, the Jedi are complacent. They're so sure of their place in the galaxy and so certain that their savior will destroy their enemies (no matter what they do to push him away) that they don't react to the real threat until it's too late to do anything about it. So the antagonism between Anakin and the Order is reflected in their differing attitudes. Anakin hates the Council for being controlling and ignoring the galaxy's problems; the Jedi leaders in turn distrust him for upsetting the status quo. Zoran fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Dec 21, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 17:20
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Nielsen posted:I do some SW modding and people overwhelmingly want clone wars stuff and there's threads about the most minute details etc. "Fans" take away a lot of the SF stuff and minute details instead of the broader message which is funny but then again the films undermine themselves in this regard as well by placating all fans and the toy stuff too, R1 is no exception with regards to this when they show CGI Leia on screen and whatever fan service, how can you expect people not to talk about that? So these things are not being said by people in this thread? Okay, that's what was confusing me.
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Dec 21, 2016 17:20
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I think the real reason I disliked ep7 (beyond issues with it being a rehash , etc etc) was that there were no new cool ships and monsters/aliens being introduced, or hell, even cool sets past the opening Rey stuff. If they'd done that like they did in the prequels I'd have probably convinced myself to enjoy it.
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Dec 21, 2016 17:20
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Zoran posted:The midichlorians aren't false indicators and the prophecy isn't wrong. But the Jedi do misunderstand them, in the same way that Anakin misunderstands his visions: they both assume that, if they do nothing to interfere, then events will unfold exactly the way they expect. Exactly. The prophecy isn't wrong, the Jedi just don't understand that in order to bring balance to the Force, they must be destroyed.
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Dec 21, 2016 17:23
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Basebf555 posted:It says it all though, really. A bunch of kids learned via the prequels that a movie, no matter how much its hyped in the media and in your own mind, may end up being a disappointment. Its so seared in their memory that to go back now, 15 years later, and reevaluate that opinion would be extremely difficult. When a memory is wrapped up in that much nostalgia and emotion, its impossible to say "the prequels aren't great but they have their positive aspects along with the negative". That's too wishy washy for people who were obsessed with Star Wars in the lead up to Episode 1 and ended up feeling burned by it. This is a good post that deserves more praise.
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Dec 21, 2016 17:26
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Saw Rogue One last night. Real good movie. Really my only issue with it, and this is really only because I'm hugely nostalgic for the original trilogy, is the inconsistency between the very end of Rogue One and the beginning of a New Hope. But I can get over that. It's real, real good.
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Dec 21, 2016 17:34
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Nielsen posted:SMGs post about Rogue One garbage truck is great but that still doesn't mean some characters are wafer thin, "show don't tell" is fine with Galen and his wife yes but Saw Guerrera / Jyn with her youth would've been stronger imo if they'd actually shown that instead of a dry "you haven't seen me for 16 yrs" The trick is that we are told everything about Jyn's adolescence with the fuckin rad smash-cut from Saw approaching Jyn, to Jyn lying in prison with a sad monster. The movie has a recurring theme of metaphorical prison: Captain Dallas 'carries his prison with him wherever he goes' or whatever that line was. She was already in the prison all of the time. The name of the prison is ideology. And that's the point with Jyn: in plot terms, she was with Saw but left when he started to go all Kurtz. In terms of character motivation, she thought there was hope, but he abandoned her the same way her father did (there's even a flashback/dream sequence intercutting her father with Saw to underline this). Visually, you can note that editing and note that Saw is consistently associated with caves - and his death is accompanied with the image of Jyn trying desperately not to be swallowed up by the Earth. Clawing towards daylight, after her line about never looking up. Half the film is really about Jyn returning to visit her kinda-lovely adoptive dad, and then realizing how sad he was. Which works as a parallel with Watto in Episode 2. Despite the complaints about cut scenes, Saw is one of the best fleshed-out of the minor-minor characters. Just the shot of his mismatched prosthetic feet tells you a lot. There are a lot of nice metaphors in the film. Jyn talks about the time Saw left her behind with nothing but a handgun. Hopefully you remember the part earlier in the film where she just pulls this handgun out of nowhere. Saw gave it to her. Not literally, of course - but Saw gave her the skills to pickpocket that gun undetected.
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Dec 21, 2016 17:43
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The trick is that we are told everything about Jyn's adolescence with the fuckin rad smash-cut from Saw approaching Jyn, to Jyn lying in prison with a sad monster. I won't argue with this, I think you're right about a lot of this stuff but here's the hilarious kicker, all this kind of important character drama is "efficiently cut" so we can get extra shots of spaceships blowing stuff up and more fanservice, I would've loved to see more efficiently cut space battles and more moments between the characters that actually underline these things. That's my major problem with the film, as much as I loved all the spacebattles, I wanted to see some more people doing peoplestuff, to make me care more.
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Dec 21, 2016 17:58
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Nielsen posted:I won't argue with this, I think you're right about a lot of this stuff but here's the hilarious kicker, all this kind of important character drama is "efficiently cut" so we can get extra shots of spaceships blowing stuff up and more fanservice, I would've loved to see more efficiently cut space battles and more moments between the characters that actually underline these things. That's my major problem with the film, as much as I loved all the spacebattles, I wanted to see some more people doing peoplestuff, to make me care more. people are dismissing things as 'fanservice' that are actually very vital to the film. The space battles are also cut to the bone. What you're missing is the importance of not showing things. Not showing something can say a lot. We skip Jyn's adolescence the same way we skip Anakin's in the gap between Episode 1 and 2 - or Luke's career with the rebellion between Episode 4 and 5. Luke becoming a Jedi? Skipped. The entire clone war? Skipped. Like I said, Edwards is actually more a fan of Lucas' style of storytelling, paying homage to the narrative logic of the prequels - while also throwing in some radical departures (onscreen text in establishing shots, flashbacks, etc.). The 'blue milk' is just a shorthand to say that Jyn's mom a lot like Aunt Beru. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Dec 21, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 18:08
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Super Fan posted:I love Waffles because he just can't accept that people don't like the prequels. Just beyond his comprehension lol Ramadu posted:Because none of us who find the movies awful have ever heard that they are good in our real life ever. For me it's a shock because the phantom menace was when I first realized that movies could be bad. I've tried to rewatch them in the last couple of years (like before TFA came out) and they were some of the most miserable movies I've ever seen in my life. They are bad movies on pretty much every single level and it's just bizarre that people are trying to create this counter narrative that they are good. it's like the people doing it are being paid by Disney to try and change the opinion of them because the first time I even heard of this was after Disney bought the rights to it. It's just bizarre. hahaha goddamn I genuinely love this thread. This happens about every 50-100 pages or so and it is always hilarious: "Lol you dumb prequels lovers just can't seem to understand that people have different opinions than you!" * a dude comes in the thread for the first time and openly declares his extreme bafflement that people have different opinions than him *
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