Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004
Exciting Lemon

Crazy_BlackParrot posted:

in the refund QUEUE lmao.

They didn't even try to do that with me:

quote:

Beer (aka: Beer4TheBeerGod)

Dec 9, 19:08 GMT


Hello,

This is the third time I have attempted to contact you. The first was directly through e-mail via support@cloudimperiumgames.com. I received no response indicating my message was received and the ZenDesk CS website indicates no record of a ticket. I then attempted to contact you through the robertsspaceindustries.com website, but there was an "unexpected transmission error". Contacting you through an alternative account ("BomberBro") was successful, but since this is my main account I decided to attempt a support ticket through here as well. Please use this e-mail account for all correspondence.

In accordance with your terms of service I am requesting a full refund on the grounds that your company has failed to deliver the "Star Citizen" and "Squadron 42" products within the allotted timeline. It has been significantly more than 18 months since the original delivery date of November 2014 (as per the Kickstarter page). Since then your company has displayed an incomprehensibly gross disregard for its customers, habitually wasting funds and time in a manner that flies in the face of the appreciation you supposedly express for your customers (as entailed in "The Pledge") and everything that Star Citizen was meant to stand for.

I'm fully aware of your product and what you promise to provide in the upcoming months. Please don't waste my time implying that the Terms of Service do not permit me a refund; I have never agreed to any ToS changes since June 10th and even if I had all of my packages are from before then. Please also don't waste my time talking about how I'm taking money from the developers, about how the development of Star Citizen is normal, about how amazing changes are right around the corner, or any of the countless other platitudes your company has used in the hopes that it will keep backer money in their account.

I have spent a total of $600. I currently have $530 worth of game packages, $10 in store credit, and $20 worth of purchased UEC. Therefore I expect a full refund on the order of $560 for the total value of the assets within my account. You may return the funds to the PayPal account associated with this account's e-mail address ("XXX").

I look forward to your response. If a response is not heard within three business days then I will pursue every option available to me. This will include submitting a complaint to the Federal Trade Commission, the Better Business Bureau, the County of Los Angeles Department of Consumer and Business Affairs, and the State of California Department of Justice Office of the Attorney General.

Kevin

quote:

Ray (Cloud Imperium Games)

Dec 12, 13:12 GMT

Hi Kevin,

I hope that you are well.

We received your message on Friday, however it appears the other messages came from your previously closed account under a different email address, so I will leave this one open to address this.

I will have the eCommerce Team look into your account for the full eligible refund amount and we will return to you by tomorrow with the review and calculation.


Many thanks,

Ray
Player Relations Team
Roberts Space Industries

quote:

Beer (aka: Beer4TheBeerGod)

Dec 12, 14:36 GMT


Thank you. I look forward to your response. I'm not sure what you mean by "previously closed account" because none of my accounts have ever been closed.

You're more than welcome to perform any calculation you want, but unless the amount returned is $560 I intend to contact every consumer affairs option available to me. It's not your money to keep.

Kevin

quote:

Beer (aka: Beer4TheBeerGod)

Dec 14, 06:36 GMT


Hello,

We've exceeded every reasonable definition of the word "tomorrow" and your account review is not here. Please provide an update as to when I can expect it.

Kevin

quote:

Ray (Cloud Imperium Games)

Dec 14, 17:54 GMT

Hi Kevin,

Following a review of your request, we have decided at our discretion to refund your account. When this is complete, your account will be closed.

We will now research your activity and refund eligibility for pledges which are present on this account. If you have received pledge items from third parties as gifts in excess of your actual account spend, we can, at your option, return those to the account which gifted the pledge to you, however those pledges are not refundable to you because you did not pay for them yourself.

Some pledges may no longer be refundable through their original payment methods, so are you OK with us returning the funds via PayPal to the PayPal email address XXX?

Upon confirmation of this, we will begin the research process and at that time your account will be made inactive.


Many thanks,

Ray
Player Relations Team
Roberts Space Industries

quote:


Beer (aka: Beer4TheBeerGod)

Dec 14, 17:59 GMT


Yes, I authorize you to refund the value of my account to XXX. Please verify the quantity to be refunded before closing. My estimation was $560.

Thank you.

quote:

Beer (aka: Beer4TheBeerGod)

Dec 15, 14:51 GMT


When should I expect the review to be completed?

quote:

Beer (aka: Beer4TheBeerGod)

Dec 16, 18:51 GMT


Hello,

It's been 48 hours since your previous response indicating you would investigate my account and provide a full refund. Please let me know when I should expect your team to complete its review, and when those funds will be sent to my PayPal account. Thank you.

quote:


Beer (aka: Beer4TheBeerGod)

Dec 19, 21:39 GMT


Hello,

It's now been three full business days since your previous response indicating you would investigate my account and provide a full refund. Please let me know when I should expect your team to complete its review, and when those funds will be sent to my PayPal account. Thank you.

Kevin

quote:

Beer (aka: Beer4TheBeerGod)

Dec 20, 18:15 GMT


Hello,

In light of your company's continued failure to provide a response I will give you until Friday before I submit complaints to the relevant consumer protection agencies. At the very least your company should be able to tell me when to expect the review to be completed.

Kevin

quote:

Will (Cloud Imperium Games)

Dec 21, 03:08 GMT

Hi Kevin,

We've completed our review and issued the requested full refund amount of $560 this evening to your XXX PayPal account.

Your RSI account has been permanently closed in accordance with our Terms of Service. Thanks for your patience and support.

Will Leverett
Director of Player Relations
Roberts Space Industries

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:

Yep, launch a big broken wet fart to everyone two days before Christmas. Sounds reasonable.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Ol Cactus Dick posted:

I bet other con men are jealous of CIG, they must wrack their brains trying to figure out an audience that is so willing to eat poo poo and continue throwing thousands of dollars at those feeding them.

The real con operations take in billions. Just look at:

Magic Leap
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Leap

quote:

Magic Leap was founded by Rony Abovitz in 2010[4] and has raised $1.4 billion from a list of investors including Google and China's Alibaba Group. As of December 2016, the company has not released a product to market.

It's since been revealed that all Magic Leap demos were faked, and were running on hardware not even close to being able to be accommodated in the promised head mounted unit.

Theranos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theranos

quote:

A 2016 article said that the company had been valued in the private market at $9 billion in 2013, soon after its tests had launched. At the time, Holmes was the majority shareholder.

Shareholder of over 50% of a $9 billion company.

Theranos CEO, Elizabeth Holmes, founded the company at the age of 19, using concepts her college professors told her were not workable. "In July 2016, Theranos announced that the CMS had revoked its CLIA certificate as well as sanctions prohibiting its owners and operators from owning or operating a lab for two years, suspension of approval to receive Medicare and Medicaid payments, and a civil monetary penalty."

One of Theranos original hires, a chief scientist, committed suicide when things began to unravel.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/09/elizabeth-holmes-theranos-exclusive

Then there's Bernie Madoff, whose scheme is alleged by prosecutors to have shorted his investors by $64.8 billion.

Chris Roberts is only in the single digit, or fractional digit, percentage of real (fraudulent/accidentally failing, just trying to keep above water) operations. He's just skimming the bottom of the barrel for actual "shady" white collar operations.

KM Scorchio
Feb 13, 2008

"If you don't find rape hilarious, you're a sensitive crybaby."
Beautiful.

his nibs
Feb 27, 2016

:kayak:Welcome to the:kayak:
Dream Factory
:kayak:
Grimey Drawer

Colostomy Bag posted:

Yep, launch a big broken wet fart to everyone two days before Christmas. Sounds reasonable.


It's for the best

Samizdata
May 14, 2007

WTF? You'd think I had done NOTHING!

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos

Samizdata posted:

WTF? You'd think I had done NOTHING!

Well this is CIG we're talking about :D

BeefThief
Aug 8, 2007

somebody needs to tell CIG how version numbers work, this is just now starting to get ridiculous.

Crazy_BlackParrot
Feb 1, 2016

Christ Roberts is way better than toilet lord...
:gary: :lesnick: :yarg:
:pgabz: :fuzzknot: :eonwe:
:wtchris:
oh this thread is fun
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/5jlm6l/someone_please_help_me/

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

These are great. :allears:

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

They may as well. Nobody else is dumb enough to user their washed up engine. CIG using it is a testament to their fundamental failure as a company and why there will never be a game from them.

Samizdata
May 14, 2007

peter gabriel posted:

Oooh yeah I have that, and Lego Worlds, none for me though. Hmmm, seems I do by EA games after all and am a filthy liar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_SKgkg6ltQ

But, do you edit the config files?

aleksendr
May 14, 2014

i cant even imagine the "Millions of new buyers!" they hope to get with SQ42 navigating trough this.

his nibs
Feb 27, 2016

:kayak:Welcome to the:kayak:
Dream Factory
:kayak:
Grimey Drawer



I can't believe reproduction features as one of CradleRobin's interests

Samizdata
May 14, 2007

peter gabriel posted:

Well this is CIG we're talking about :D


<puts on his stretchy purple pants>
:argh:

Fat Shat Sings
Jan 24, 2016

BeefThief posted:

somebody needs to tell CIG how version numbers work, this is just now starting to get ridiculous.

Actually this is why I figured they use the numbering convention they do. Since these patches should be like 0.0026 or 0.026 or 0.2.6 or something.

http://www.wisebread.com/party-like-its-1999-the-psychology-of-pricing

quote:

Consumers tend to place more emphasis on left digits than right ones (also known as the left-digit effect). And they "ignore the least significant digits rather than do the proper rounding." I like to think that I round $19.99 up to $20.00 rather than mentally truncating the last two digits to $19.00, but research suggests that most people retain the first two numbers only, possibly because people have gotten used to .99 as a price ending.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-things-cost-1995/

quote:

Psychologists have been studying cognitive bartering for some time, and several basics are well established. For example, an opening “bid” of any sort is usually perceived as a mental anchor, a starting point for the psychological jockeying to follow.

quote:

University of Florida marketing professors Chris Janiszewski and Dan Uy suspected that something fundamental might be going on, that some characteristic of the opening bid itself might influence the way the brain thinks about value and shapes bidding behavior. In particular, they wanted to see if the degree of precision of the opening bid might be important to how the brain acts at an auction. Or, to put it in more familiar terms: Are we really fooled when storekeepers price something at $19.95 instead of a round 20 bucks?

Basically an incredibly effective retail scam tactic that takes advantage of peoples instinctual reactions, just applied to a game development scam. It's plainly obvious, It's like a used car dealership or credit card commercial, except nobody is making CIG put a giant asterisk down with a ten page disclaimer about their lies and misrepresentations.

In an actual game being developed, I'll pick Star Sector as an example, the version numbers are 0.XX.rcX. I got into the game at 0.39.x 0.40 was a leap in functionality but the real star was what was in the game itself. 0.5X.rcX, 0.6X.rcX. 0.7X.rcX. After years the guy has been adding things to his game, and the game speaks for itself with easily trackable progress, the version numbers are doing what they are supposed to do, keep track of his development.

CIG is just using version numbers as marketing, their product right now is barely even a prototype. It's like if Apple had a giant malfunctioning phone that couldn't make calls with a bunch of exposed circuitry and a giant AC cord instead of a battery and called it the IPhone 2.0. Putting a cover on it makes it the IPhone 3.0. Changing the screen time out effect is the IPhone 4.0.

Most companies aren't that blatantly scamming people, but most customers aren't as stupid as backers.

I'd argue that the PU isn't even a prototype since you typically need to be working toward actually making something. Promising literally impossible technology in a dead end engine is the same thing as selling those rebreathers that were scientifically impossible. Sure they had "prototypes" but the project was a lie from the start.

Fat Shat Sings fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Dec 21, 2016

Raskolnikov
Nov 25, 2003

Tippis posted:

So, doors are controlled client-side and the animations are culled in such a way that they don't run through their movements properly, apparently…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdXt2PHcOyo

That this bug could even exist is an achievement in ignorance on CIG's part.
When your code goes from spaghetti to Stimporial you get this. :allears:

There comes a point when the programmers have to sit management down to get things done. Too bad Christ Roberts never can be wrong.

"Make it work!" "Just do it!" "You're fired!"

edit:

Tippis posted:

As far as anyone can tell, you trigger the door, and it starts to animate. You look away, and the object is aggressively culled from rendering — possibly even from memory altogether — meaning it no longer animates through the full motion. When it comes back into view, it is restored in its last know state, which is half-opened.

So at very least, the client-side door state is fully client controlled, with no server authority message saying “no, this door has bene triggered open” (much less “…and it's in this state”). If and how this might affect other players interacting with the same door can't be inferred from the video, but I'd love to see two players messing around with it. How this affects the physics of trying to get through the door is also anyone's guess.

…but it's not like we haven't seen plenty videos of people phasing through doors already, so that might just explain that.
This is probably exactly it. Most likely this was one of their "optimizations" in their last "refactoring of the pipeline" :v:

Raskolnikov fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Dec 21, 2016

Raskolnikov
Nov 25, 2003

Fatkraken posted:

I love Matcha Green Tea ice cream
I had homemade matcha green tea soft serve in Nagano that was to die for. I never would have though softserve could taste that good.

AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Will (Cloud Imperium Games)

Dec 21, 03:08 GMT

Hi Kevin,

We've completed our review and issued the requested full refund amount of $560 this evening to your XXX PayPal account.

Your RSI account has been permanently closed in accordance with our Terms of Service. Thanks for your patience and support.

Will Leverett
Director of Player Relations
Roberts Space Industries

You need a T-posed Star Marine under a "refund accomplished" banner.

Seriously, well done.

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

PlushCow
Oct 19, 2005

The cow eats the grass

1500 posted:

While Rimworld only just got into official EA, the fact that it was selling the same game on its own site for some time before still counts. And people are giving it very good early reviews.

I don't think you can break it down that way really, there are just way too many variables. There are also tons of poo poo EA games that released before that first year. EA can lead to some great games, and some cool games that would never happen. But at the same time it is prone to abuse and even if the Dev means well it can lead to burn out or apathy.

I stayed away from buying early access games when they were first introduced but in the past year or so I've bought into like 4-5 and think the only time you should buy an EA game is if you think there's enough content for you to be satisfied with your purchase in its current iteration. If you want to support development, great, but there should be part of a game there currently you can enjoy for a reasonable price.

That's one reason why I think I understand some of the mindset of the Star Citizen fans wanting their ultimate space sim game. All but one early access game I've bought have been $15 or under, and the one that was over was $40 for Naval Action, and I thought that was obscene for a rough (pre?)alpha. I love age of sail stuff, and Naval Action was hitting all my buttons and I wanted to support development (sound familiar??). I got excited enough reading about it to override my judgement.

However I got almost 70 hours out of it until I burned out. The game was, and still is rough; but I only had a handful of crashes in those ~70 hours of game time, and though the game has/had barely any content beyond the ship combat, they had the combat done right, the most important part of the game, and it was great, great fun. Star Citizen doesn't have that kind of basic functionality down yet, for their spaceships or FPS, and they really should have.

I think that's the trap of early access and Star Citizen; putting down your money for something that isn't there yet, the dreaming of what will be. I wouldn't recommend Naval Action to anyone. I have no idea if Naval Action will be completed or even be a game I'd want to play again if it is finished, but I feel I got my money's worth. There's no gameplay element in Star Citizen that's fleshed out enough to be comparable, certainly not beyond a minimum purchase.

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015

aleksendr posted:

i cant even imagine the "Millions of new buyers!" they hope to get with SQ42 navigating trough this.

This loving retarded game and these loving retarded people. Even dozens of SC obsessed shitizens can't agree whether or not he actually bought the game.

Ash1138
Sep 29, 2001

Get up, chief. We're just gettin' started.

why is the tab key "scan?"

tab key is for the scoreboard, map, or inventory

AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer

I'm the one telling Cymelion in private to ignore all you guys, I want his mental breakdown all to myself when this poo poo show finally ends.

Ash1138
Sep 29, 2001

Get up, chief. We're just gettin' started.

Daztek posted:

Grim Dawn was in EA for nearly 3 years!
3 years and they couldn't come up with a name or logo that doesn't crib from warhammer 40k so hard it's almost sad?

Foo Diddley
Oct 29, 2011

cat

Ash1138 posted:

why is the tab key "scan?"

tab key is for the scoreboard, map, or inventory

Let me guess: You can't rebind the keys

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015

AP posted:

I'm the one telling Cymelion in private to ignore all you guys, I want his mental breakdown all to myself when this poo poo show finally ends.

I tell him not to call his parents.

I also send him pictures of my wiener.

Eldragon
Feb 22, 2003

his nibs posted:

It's for the best



Everything is for the best, in the best of all possible space sims.

AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer
https://twitter.com/Mitauchi/status/811482051408986112

big nipples big life
May 12, 2014

Ash1138 posted:

why is the tab key "scan?"

tab key is for the scoreboard, map, or inventory

they were already using CTRL+ALT+Home+Num Lock+Your Monitor Power Button for inventory so they had it open.

Crazy_BlackParrot
Feb 1, 2016

Christ Roberts is way better than toilet lord...
:gary: :lesnick: :yarg:
:pgabz: :fuzzknot: :eonwe:
:wtchris:

Ol Cactus Dick posted:

they were already using CTRL+ALT+Home+Num Lock+Your Monitor Power Button for inventory so they had it open.

i died

Foo Diddley
Oct 29, 2011

cat

Ol Cactus Dick posted:

they were already using CTRL+ALT+Home+Num Lock+Your Monitor Power Button for inventory so they had it open.

But enough about emacs

Raskolnikov
Nov 25, 2003

Xarbala posted:

Ironically the weird obsession with CIG and everyone attached to it has had the unexpected side effect of making this thread the most reliable source of Star Citizen news for people who actually care about Star Citizen

I was making GBS threads up the CIG discord last night, I said everyone should read SA for their Star Citizen news and a bunch of cultists actually said this thread is a good source of info. (It is, but that's pretty sad for the most open development ever.) Do better CIG!

Samizdata
May 14, 2007

scrubs season six posted:

I tell him not to call his parents.

I also send him pictures of my wiener.

Me too! But I also doxxed his parents, his wiener, and his parent's wieners.

Foo Diddley
Oct 29, 2011

cat

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

They didn't even try to do that with me:

Cool story, Kevin

Yet another motherfucker steps to the Star Citizen thread and gets his poo poo doxx'd

Samizdata
May 14, 2007

Foo Diddley posted:

But enough about emacs

But that's only because you are an emacs loser. Vim FTW!

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard



MeLKoR
Dec 23, 2004

by FactsAreUseless

Raskolnikov posted:

I was making GBS threads up the CIG discord last night, I said everyone should read SA for their Star Citizen news and a bunch of cultists actually said this thread is a good source of info. (It is, but that's pretty sad for the most open development ever.) Do better CIG!

Didn't they close the SC discord a while back? Did they reactivate it again for 2.6? :getin:

MedicineHut
Feb 25, 2016


This really loving 2.6 PTU?

How on earth?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Samizdata
May 14, 2007

I tried. I really. really tried. I had the tab open and everything. But I just could not deal with that poor deluded shill long enough to formulate anything resembling a coherent response.

Sorry, Kev...Erm...Beer.

EDIT: Also, a deluded felis for a deluded Citizenry.



(I had been SO lucky lately avoiding snypes, I got lazy and was not prepared.)

Samizdata fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Dec 21, 2016

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5