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big trivia FAIL posted:It depends on where that average is coming from (Metro area). For example, a COLA calculator says I'd need a ~70% upward adjustment to maintain my current standard of living if I moved from Mississippi to Boston, MA. I would, personally, say my number is 65K and then adjust up X% for Boston from where those salary reports are coming from. Thank you! I ended up putting the location (Boston) into Glassdoor and it said $68k. Not sure how accurate it is though? Should I somehow NOT give a number even though they asked for it? I know in the OP it says not to, but I'm not sure how to work around that since they asked. Should I ignore the question?
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Nov 29, 2016 21:15
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Bloody Cat Farm posted:Thank you! I ended up putting the location (Boston) into Glassdoor and it said $68k. Not sure how accurate it is though? If I'm asked to provide a number I always give a very, very high one. Make them tell you no. Hell, I'd throw out 80K based on the 68K average for Boston. I'm aggressive as hell, though.
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Nov 29, 2016 22:44
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I hadn't posted in this thread previously, but I had read it before engaging in talking to two companies who both wanted to hire me. Thanks to the advice I had read folks in this thread giving I *almost* doubled my previous salary.
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Nov 29, 2016 23:05
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Also going back to that previous COLA calculator and I mentioned the cost of living was roughly 70% higher in Boston than where I live now...how in the hell do people afford to live there (or anywhere on the coasts)? I earn $105K base currently, and this thing says I'd need to earn ~$180K for Boston. I can guarantee similar jobs don't pay that high there (I'm management, but below Director level). edit: the boston area average for my job title is $107K. I'm either grossly overpaid or (more likely) that's a microcosm of how salaries haven't kept pace with the rise in cost of living most places.
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Nov 29, 2016 23:41
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creatine posted:So I am in this situation: Make them want to hire you, make them name a number first. Its #1, 2, 3 and 4 in the OP.
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Nov 29, 2016 23:42
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big trivia FAIL posted:Also going back to that previous COLA calculator and I mentioned the cost of living was roughly 70% higher in Boston than where I live now...how in the hell do people afford to live there (or anywhere on the coasts)? I earn $105K base currently, and this thing says I'd need to earn ~$180K for Boston. I can guarantee similar jobs don't pay that high there (I'm management, but below Director level). It's mostly housing, at least for Boston, and its a problem. You live in a smaller house/apt or less desirable area, relative to the rest of the metro. On top of that, the housing prices are exaggerated in the first calculator I googled - 550k is too high to be a median housing price. I don't know if its similarly exaggerated for your location or that's making it look worse than it is.
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Nov 30, 2016 01:02
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supercrooky posted:It's mostly housing, at least for Boston, and its a problem. You live in a smaller house/apt or less desirable area, relative to the rest of the metro. I just want to chime in that I moved from one of the most expensive housing/taxation areas of the country to one right in the middle as cities go, taking a $20k salary cut in the process. My 401k remains the same growth rate and my savings increases faster. Take this different cost of living areas thing very seriously.
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Nov 30, 2016 01:21
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supercrooky posted:It's mostly housing, at least for Boston, and its a problem. You live in a smaller house/apt or less desirable area, relative to the rest of the metro. It's low for my area, but I have a brain problem where I refuse to take a mortgage on more than 2x my gross. My first house was carried at 120 after down payment, and my current one is 209 after. Saying it's exaggerated still means that if it WERE that, and we scope down to 450, I'd still need to earn 225K. That's insane. How do people live like that? Do you not buy cars, groceries, fix poo poo that goes wrong, have kids, save any money?? We save, through retirement and rainy day, about 1300 per month, and I'm itching to double that with paying off the cars and student loans. I have 2 kids and 2 car notes, my wife doesn't work. I'm 34. HOW DO YALL LIVE??
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Nov 30, 2016 06:48
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big trivia FAIL posted:It's low for my area, but I have a brain problem where I refuse to take a mortgage on more than 2x my gross. My first house was carried at 120 after down payment, and my current one is 209 after. Saying it's exaggerated still means that if it WERE that, and we scope down to 450, I'd still need to earn 225K. That's insane. How do people live like that? Do you not buy cars, groceries, fix poo poo that goes wrong, have kids, save any money?? We save, through retirement and rainy day, about 1300 per month, and I'm itching to double that with paying off the cars and student loans. I have 2 kids and 2 car notes, my wife doesn't work. I'm 34. HOW DO YALL LIVE?? In crippling debt tbh
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Nov 30, 2016 11:22
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creatine posted:So I am in this situation: Also, you may want to contact some staffing agencies to get some experience.
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Nov 30, 2016 12:53
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big trivia FAIL posted:It's low for my area, but I have a brain problem where I refuse to take a mortgage on more than 2x my gross. My first house was carried at 120 after down payment, and my current one is 209 after. Saying it's exaggerated still means that if it WERE that, and we scope down to 450, I'd still need to earn 225K. That's insane. How do people live like that? Do you not buy cars, groceries, fix poo poo that goes wrong, have kids, save any money?? We save, through retirement and rainy day, about 1300 per month, and I'm itching to double that with paying off the cars and student loans. I have 2 kids and 2 car notes, my wife doesn't work. I'm 34. HOW DO YALL LIVE?? In poverty-like housing conditions or finance situations or 1.5-2 hour commute with 10,000 of your closest friends. You get to chose. on topic: I received a $5,000 annual increase to my current jobs salary when I was hired a few months back just by asking for it. Highly recommend, would ask again.
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Nov 30, 2016 12:58
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Dik Hz posted:It depends on where you live. Fresh research techs start at ~$16-17/hr here in the rural south. In bigger cities with higher costs of living, they start at ~$23-$25/hr. You can probably get from $17/hr to $20/hr just by asking. I looked at some staffing. Places but they pay even worse around here. I'm in Boston and the two I inquired at said they don't pay entry level people any higher than $15/hr and don't offer benefits.
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Nov 30, 2016 13:13
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Well, I'm sending off my response email this morning. All I said, in regard to salary, was "$65,000 for salary". I tried to sell myself, which really isn't my thing. Hopefully I did OK. Fingers crossed... Mr Newsman posted:In poverty-like housing conditions or finance situations The former. Financial. Especially with student loans.
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Nov 30, 2016 13:24
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creatine posted:I looked at some staffing. Places but they pay even worse around here. I'm in Boston and the two I inquired at said they don't pay entry level people any higher than $15/hr and don't offer benefits. I interviewed with several research places in Boston back in 2010. Nobody wanted to pay more than $30k for a research tech, except Harvard. They paid $37k, so I took it. Sounds like pay hasn't increased in 6 years, which is sad.
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Nov 30, 2016 17:21
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Cacafuego posted:I interviewed with several research places in Boston back in 2010. Nobody wanted to pay more than $30k for a research tech, except Harvard. They paid $37k, so I took it. The Harvard positions I've seen start about $41K but I can't for the life of me land an interview with them.
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Nov 30, 2016 18:53
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Cacafuego posted:I interviewed with several research places in Boston back in 2010. Nobody wanted to pay more than $30k for a research tech, except Harvard. They paid $37k, so I took it. Wages have basically not gone up in general. It's not sad, it's class warfare. 
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Nov 30, 2016 19:41
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Mr Newsman posted:In poverty-like housing conditions or finance situations You should try living in London. Enjoy living in poverty-like conditions (as in, a single room) AND being financially unstable AND commuting to get into Central. On a graduate salary. And there are no decent jobs anywhere else. Britain knows most about class warfare / keeping the proles down. e: Also all major cities where there are jobs are either even pricier than London (Cambridge) or blasted hellscapes (Birmingham). Purple Prince fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Nov 30, 2016 |
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Nov 30, 2016 23:23
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Purple Prince posted:You should try living in London. Enjoy living in poverty-like conditions (as in, a single room) AND being financially unstable AND commuting to get into Central. On a graduate salary. And there are no decent jobs anywhere else. Britain knows most about class warfare / keeping the proles down. I'm sorta in the running for a job in Newcastle. Drop some knowledge on me about that, please.
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Dec 1, 2016 23:54
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MickeyFinn posted:I'm sorta in the running for a job in Newcastle. Drop some knowledge on me about that, please. To be honest despite my dismissal of cities outside London, Newcastle looks pretty nice, although I've never been there myself. See this Guardian article. Your money will go a lot further too, but in terms of feeling connected to the modern world there's nowhere like London. In comparison everywhere else in the country seems to be a bit behind; I've never seen open, scholarly lectures on posthumanism (for example) anywhere but London or similar world cities. Really it all depends what you care about. For me I'm an ideas junky but if you want a nice standard of living at a low(er) price Newcastle or some other major UK cities which aren't Oxford, Cambridge, Bath etc would be just fine. Geordies have a reputation for being friendly too. Overall if your interests don't lie toward the razor edge of modern life and you just want a nice place to live Newcastle should be fine; but everyone gravitates into London's orbit in the end. --- Related content; what constitutes 'good finance' in terms of living costs and negotiating in relation to it? I run a very tight budget because my pay is crap right now, I have debts to settle, and London prices, but being in London and in my present position I can reasonably expect my pay to increase a lot in the next 5 years. At what point does trading off value (attending events, dating, etc) for cash become a bad financial choice? Particularly where by saving a bit less I could have more opportunities to network? More a philosophical question related to early career and negotiation I suppose. Purple Prince fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Dec 4, 2016 |
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Dec 4, 2016 11:57
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Purple Prince posted:
Thanks for this. It appears the company drops applicants who don't reveal their current salary.
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Dec 8, 2016 17:14
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on Newcastle
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MickeyFinn posted:Thanks for this. It appears the company drops applicants who don't reveal their current salary. Bullet dodged. You don't want to work for douchebags.
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Dec 8, 2016 19:39
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I had the interview and it went amazingly well. They seemed very impressed with me. It sounds like I'll more than likely get the job. I'm nervous about the pay part, though. When they asked me in the original email my salary needs, they said if the position doesn't meet my needs they could maybe find another one for me. They didn't say those exact words, but that was the gist of it. So I told them $65k. Afterward they asked me to interview for that position. I know I can't assume they'll just give me $65k, but how do I bring it up if they offer me the job without discussing pay without sounding ungrateful or whatever? Sorry if I sound silly. I'm not used to interviewing or changing jobs.
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Dec 9, 2016 18:50
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Bloody Cat Farm posted:I had the interview and it went amazingly well. They seemed very impressed with me. It sounds like I'll more than likely get the job. I'm nervous about the pay part, though. When they asked me in the original email my salary needs, they said if the position doesn't meet my needs they could maybe find another one for me. They didn't say those exact words, but that was the gist of it. So I told them $65k. Afterward they asked me to interview for that position. I know I can't assume they'll just give me $65k, but how do I bring it up if they offer me the job without discussing pay without sounding ungrateful or whatever? Sorry if I sound silly. I'm not used to interviewing or changing jobs. I would ask to discuss the entire benefits package comprehensively: retirement, health insurance, pay, PTO, sick leave, whatever else. They are asking you to sign a contract with them and you want to know all of the terms, right?
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Dec 9, 2016 20:41
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It is both expected and normal to receive the full and comprehensive details of your compensation package for your consideration prior to signing any contract. They should include all of that with your offer letter, but if they don't then requesting all of that for review is an easy way to start the discussion. If they won't provide comprehensive details they are being shady AF.
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Dec 9, 2016 21:17
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Guinness posted:It is both expected and normal to receive the full and comprehensive details of your compensation package for your consideration prior to signing any contract. They should include all of that with your offer letter, but if they don't then requesting all of that for review is an easy way to start the discussion. They don't strike me as shady, especially given the type of job it is, so that's good news. Sounds like they should lay it all out for me. Thanks, all 
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Dec 9, 2016 21:51
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Bloody Cat Farm posted:They don't strike me as shady, especially given the type of job it is, so that's good news. Sounds like they should lay it all out for me. They should lay it all out for you, no sounds like about it. There's no police who go around and enforce all terms being disclosed prior to you agreeing to employment. You need to stick up for yourself in this regard: get the information necessary to make an informed decision before you make the decision. Do not agree to a job where they do not tell you about any and all benefits you ask about.
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Dec 12, 2016 19:09
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I am helping my girlfriend negotiate during her interviews and I have been rereading this thread for useful text in her emails. Came across this post with a link that has a lot of great info.interrodactyl posted:this is a very useful post on negotiating offers: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2016/06/03/kalzumeus-podcast-episode-12-salary-negotiation-with-josh-doody/
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Dec 15, 2016 18:34
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Corben Goble-Garbus posted:I am helping my girlfriend negotiate during her interviews and I have been rereading this thread for useful text in her emails. Came across this post with a link that has a lot of great info. It's cropped up a couple of times. I'll go ahead and add it now. Thanks for the poke!
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Dec 17, 2016 16:14
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Hey all, I'm back here for some Travel Positions talk. First of all, I just want to tell someone (strangers even) that I think I've just basically landed my dream job - so hooray! They offered roughly a 45% increase to my current salary (current 69, offer 100). Thanks everyone in this thread for past advice that's driven my ability to negotiate to that. However, they are asking me to do 100% travel for some amount of time (which I already told them going in that I would be okay with). The only problem is, I don't really know what the gently caress that means. I know it means that I work 5 days a week somewhere that isn't home, but I have no idea what I should be asking about this. What is typical for how housing/food/travel is handled? Do 100% travel positions ever pay for visits back home? What the hell do I do with my apartment? Do I keep it? Should I sell my car? I basically have no idea what type of questions are important and what I should be asking at this point, so I'm hoping someone can give me some tips here.
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Dec 22, 2016 01:35
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Depends on the job and industry and can vary widely. If you are not being permanently relocated somewhere it is likely that you will pay for your 'home' base (rent) and they will pay for food hotel and transportation. If you are being relocated somewhere every (say) 6-12 months then it would shade more towards you paying for your place to live with a cost of living adjustment. I would ask them to describe what the travel arrangements and schedule typically are like and what costs are covered by the company.
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Dec 22, 2016 02:01
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I did 5 years of 100% travel as a chemical engineer. The job included assignments varying in length between 1 week to 1+ years at customer sites. My company paid for hotel/apartment while on assignment, $50/day average for food, they paid for the flight there and back (obviously), depending on the location there was a bonus on top of my salary between 0-40% (shittier locations had a bigger bonus), while not on assignment my company paid for a hotel and car in the headquarters city. Some people kept an apartment but I just had a storage unit. If I wanted to fly home during an assignment for a wedding or something, I was on the hook for the flight. Ask if you can review their travel expense policy in writing before committing. Find out exactly what you have to pay for and what you can expense to the company. What kind of industry are you in?
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Dec 22, 2016 03:34
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Saint Fu posted:I did 5 years of 100% travel as a chemical engineer. The job included assignments varying in length between 1 week to 1+ years at customer sites. My company paid for hotel/apartment while on assignment, $50/day average for food, they paid for the flight there and back (obviously), depending on the location there was a bonus on top of my salary between 0-40% (shittier locations had a bigger bonus), while not on assignment my company paid for a hotel and car in the headquarters city. Some people kept an apartment but I just had a storage unit. If I wanted to fly home during an assignment for a wedding or something, I was on the hook for the flight. Awesome, this is all really good information and at least gives me some starting points for questions. I'm in technology management consulting. Specifically I'll be an "Agile Transformation Coach" if that helps. How does industry affect this whole situation? E: Also do you have any general advice for a travel position? This seems like it's a completely foreign lifestyle to me.
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Dec 22, 2016 04:54
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Tots posted:Awesome, this is all really good information and at least gives me some starting points for questions. Industry matters because some industries have lower (or higher) overall standards for travel. You situation will likely be similar to what the guy above described if you're doing on-site consulting presumably to help people switch to an agile programming model. You'll go to a site and live there for x months until they accomplish whatever and then go to the next site.
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Dec 22, 2016 05:16
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I just interviewed recently and got an offer. During the interview, I mentioned a target (I know... I didn't start reading up on this stuff until after the interview...) and the offer I got is higher than my target. They know I'm between jobs right now, although I got another offer at the same time from another firm for slightly less. Even though I don't have much leverage, can I still ask for more? The job looks great, I just don't want to leave any money on the table.
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Dec 22, 2016 15:35
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Spoderman posted:I just interviewed recently and got an offer. During the interview, I mentioned a target (I know... I didn't start reading up on this stuff until after the interview...) and the offer I got is higher than my target. They know I'm between jobs right now, although I got another offer at the same time from another firm for slightly less. Even though I don't have much leverage, can I still ask for more? The job looks great, I just don't want to leave any money on the table. You can. It's tactically riskier than I'd like. You don't have a job right now, and your other offer is worse by the sounds of it. They offered you more than you asked for, which will mean their first question is "We were generous and offered you more than your target. Why should we bump up even more past that?" Seeing as your other offer is worse, any answer you offer comes down to "I want more money." You could take the high offer to the low offer to see if they'll bump up any. But I don't think trying to nudge up your high offer after they exceeded a goal you gave them is the right play for where you are right now.
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Dec 22, 2016 15:54
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Tots posted:Awesome, this is all really good information and at least gives me some starting points for questions. It's definitely a completely different lifestyle. My travel was 100% international so there was always the excitement in getting to experience other cultures. I would ask about the typical assignment duration; I personally much preferred 3+ month jobs because it takes at least a month to get familiar with a new place. If it's a new place every week, that would get old really quick. I have a friend in accounting who did a few years of travel: fly to a job on Monday morning, fly home Friday evening, spend the weekend at home, repeat. He hated it because it wasn't like he was living there, it felt more like mini projects which annoyingly had to be done at the customer site. Either way, definitely sign up for all of the frequent flyer and hotel rewards programs, that will add up quick. Find a hobby which you can travel with, for me it was photography but it helped being international where everything is interesting. If I were to do it again, I'd buy a high quality foldable bike so I could get out and see the local area and get some exercise while doing it. Gotta be careful with your diet because it's super easy to eat out every day when everything is on expense and you don't have a kitchen to cook in. Easy to gain a bunch of weight if you're not conscious of what you're eating and making sure you get some exercise. While on a job, always say yes if someone invites you to do something, doesn't matter what it is. It's easy to hole up in the hotel and get lonely but if you're on longer assignments, your customer rep/counter part will be more likely to invite you to tag along somewhere, go for it! Feel free to PM me with more questions if you'd like, kinda getting off topic with negotiation. If the company hiring you is smart, they'll ask a lot of questions to make sure you're really the type of person who can travel full time. Get as many details as you can so you'll know what life will actually look like once you're in it.
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Dec 22, 2016 16:20
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:You can. It's tactically riskier than I'd like. You don't have a job right now, and your other offer is worse by the sounds of it. They offered you more than you asked for, which will mean their first question is "We were generous and offered you more than your target. Why should we bump up even more past that?" Seeing as your other offer is worse, any answer you offer comes down to "I want more money." Yea this. I know there are many youtubes and some in this thread that say always negotiate but I am firmly in the camp of having an "absolute minimum" and a "just say yes price" in mind by the end of the interview just in case (which requires a lot of research before the interview). I firm these numbers up with more data and comparing responsibilities and benefits after the interview if they didnt make an offer right then.
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Dec 22, 2016 16:38
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:You can. It's tactically riskier than I'd like. You don't have a job right now, and your other offer is worse by the sounds of it. They offered you more than you asked for, which will mean their first question is "We were generous and offered you more than your target. Why should we bump up even more past that?" Seeing as your other offer is worse, any answer you offer comes down to "I want more money." Thanks for the advice. I informed them of upcoming travel plans, made sure they'd reimburse me for any job-related certifications I would get, and I took the offer they made. The pay is 33% more than I was making before, the benefits are great, the holiday calendar is huge-- it was a good offer that I'm happy with. Plus, I didn't want to start out my career there with a history of buckling during salary negotiations. I just wish I hadn't said a number at first...
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Dec 22, 2016 17:42
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Spoderman posted:I just interviewed recently and got an offer. During the interview, I mentioned a target (I know... I didn't start reading up on this stuff until after the interview...) and the offer I got is higher than my target. They know I'm between jobs right now, although I got another offer at the same time from another firm for slightly less. Even though I don't have much leverage, can I still ask for more? The job looks great, I just don't want to leave any money on the table. I completely agree with Dwight Eisenhower posted:You can. It's tactically riskier than I'd like. You don't have a job right now, and your other offer is worse by the sounds of it. They offered you more than you asked for, which will mean their first question is "We were generous and offered you more than your target. Why should we bump up even more past that?" Seeing as your other offer is worse, any answer you offer comes down to "I want more money." CarForumPoster posted:Yea this. I know there are many youtubes and some in this thread that say always negotiate but I am firmly in the camp of having an "absolute minimum" and a "just say yes price" in mind by the end of the interview just in case (which requires a lot of research before the interview). I firm these numbers up with more data and comparing responsibilities and benefits after the interview if they didnt make an offer right then. but if you have an actual reason for the ask, it doesn't always have to play as just greedy.  ANECDOTAL EVIDENCEFor my current role, I gave my just say yes number when repeatedly asked for a number by the internal recruiter before moving forward with an offer (I know...) and they came in a few thousand above it. I asked for the benefit package information as well and it was pretty terrible compared to every other company I'd been with. Because the benefits weren't great, I countered with a higher base than their offer stating that "the target I gave assumed similar benefits as my current company" and their benefits were significantly worse as my justification. It delayed the final offer a bit because apparently it had to be approved since I think I came in near the top of their range for my level, but in the end they agreed.
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Dec 22, 2016 17:45
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Hi, so I've been interviewing for a job the last few days. The first day I met with a manager, the second day I met with an HR peron, and today they have me scheduled to meet with the CEO. The company has about 100 people in it. My position is an entry-level job that requires some technical skills such as spreadsheet work, data entry, renegotiating contracts and some work in Great Plains making sure data maintains integrity across their platforms. But most of it is software/datatabase work. I told them that depending on the exact benefits package, I'd start happy to start in the low 40k range. They mentioned today that the meeting with the CEO would have a few more questions but would mostly be about salary/compensation. I was told by my dad who does a lot of hiring for a different company that it's important not to price yourself out of the running with a ridiculous demand, but that it's ok to ask for raises as long as the amount isn't over 5-7% of the initial offer. This is my fist real job offer out of college, so I'm not exactly sure what to expect. I did tell them that if they did make an offer to me, I'd just like a day to review the information and make sure everything is good. So my question here is, I believe that the job is worth probably 39-45k depending on various factors, but my problem is I don't have a lot of work experience so I feel they may use that against me. In the case that they ask me to name a number first, would it be better to start lower or higher and negotiate from there? Calm fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Dec 22, 2016 |
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Dec 22, 2016 18:36
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