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I'm DMing so this is a weird question but how do I get the Leader to stop holding his heals? He's playing a straight cleric with a strength/something build and has at least 3 encounter heals but seems obsessed with holding them until someone goes down. It's definitely learnt behavior from 3/5E that he's bringing across where healing in combat is bad. This wouldn't be a problem if the first guy to go down wasn't him a solid chunk of the time. This makes combat extremely swingy based on whether he gets creamed or not. I've tried talking to him out of game both gently and fairly directly so does anyone have any in game advice to help get him in the swing of it?
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Dec 22, 2016 10:53
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:I'm DMing so this is a weird question but how do I get the Leader to stop holding his heals? He's playing a straight cleric with a strength/something build and has at least 3 encounter heals but seems obsessed with holding them until someone goes down. Tell him combat healing is Good because a) you typically use Minor actions to fuel it, or it gets slapped onto an attack, which makes it actually efficient, and b) 99% of heal effects use healing surge value, which means unless something is going drastically wrong with the target, the healing always scales from a quarter of their HP and up. Besides that, I hella don't know, man.
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Dec 22, 2016 11:06
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He should be dropping heals when people are bloody, because he's helping people lose turns when they go down, and best case scenario they have to spend an action to get up off the ground. Most healers can't overheal (more than your maximum hit points) from bloody. If he's repeatedly dropping first, he's either playing really badly or the defender is.
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Dec 22, 2016 11:19
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:I'm DMing so this is a weird question but how do I get the Leader to stop holding his heals? He's playing a straight cleric with a strength/something build and has at least 3 encounter heals but seems obsessed with holding them until someone goes down. Point him towards some of the things that provide buffs when he heals, or allow him to heal when he attacks directly. Give everyone the free ability of that one belt, that allows surge-spending healing to convert overspend into THP.
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Dec 22, 2016 11:38
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It's probably best to describe to the player how and why healing works in 4e mechanically: 1. It only costs Leaders a Minor Action to heal, so the Standard Action can still be used for just about everything else 2. Heals always restore 25% of a target's health at the minimum, so it's always a significant and meaningful amount relative to the incoming damage 3. Because of the way initiative and turn-order works, it's important to prevent people from hitting zero HP because it prevents them from losing entire turns
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Dec 22, 2016 11:42
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:I'm DMing so this is a weird question but how do I get the Leader to stop holding his heals? He's playing a straight cleric with a strength/something build and has at least 3 encounter heals but seems obsessed with holding them until someone goes down.
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Dec 22, 2016 13:46
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Splicer posted:What was his exact response when you asked "Why won't you heal in combat?" It's been a couple of months but something along the lines of doesn't think of it until he gets floored. It's specifically healing word he forgets because he regularly uses healing strike
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Dec 22, 2016 14:24
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If he's just forgetting he has Healing Word, remind him during the game.
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Dec 22, 2016 14:36
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:It's been a couple of months but something along the lines of doesn't think of it until he gets floored. It's specifically healing word he forgets because he regularly uses healing strike How do you visually track the bloodied condition in your game? Specifically, with regard to PCs?
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Dec 22, 2016 14:51
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:It's been a couple of months but something along the lines of doesn't think of it until he gets floored. It's specifically healing word he forgets because he regularly uses healing strike Make three large cardboard cards that have "Healing Word" printed on them in bright colors and hand them to him at the start of the session as a reminder.
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Dec 22, 2016 14:57
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Mendrian posted:How do you visually track the bloodied condition in your game? Specifically, with regard to PCs? Other colors are for other conditions that come and go quickly. Marked is the most common one of these. So yes, Goon With Unhelpful Healer. Try these out.
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Dec 22, 2016 15:00
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I'm surprised none of the other players at the table have taken to reminding him. "You better take a breather, I'm too busy stabbing this orc to pick up your lazy rear end again."
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Dec 22, 2016 15:19
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Mendrian posted:How do you visually track the bloodied condition in your game? Specifically, with regard to PCs? Magnetic status condition markers from Alea Tools (which are great and I recommend them). Honestly giving him two big healing word cards is a good idea - I was thinking about doing that anyway for action points so can do it at the same time. As for other players reminding him, two do sometimes though one is both the sharpest tactician in the group by a long way but also conscious of quarter backing so I've noticed he only does it when he feels it really counts. The other two are low mechanical mastery players playing ranged classes so don't get damaged a ton and don't really have a grasp of how anyone elses character works other than the conceptual level. Cthulhu Dreams fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Dec 22, 2016 |
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Dec 22, 2016 15:34
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It's difficult to draw a clear line, but "I'm loving dying, loving heal me" is something that I feel would definitely fall under "not quarterbacking" Like, that's literally what a character might even say in-character.
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Dec 22, 2016 15:37
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gradenko_2000 posted:It's difficult to draw a clear line, but "I'm loving dying, loving heal me" is something that I feel would definitely fall under "not quarterbacking" The problem such as it is is basically the cleric not healing himself. He'll take multiple turns while bloodied without healing himself then get hit again as he's a melee build and go down with two unspent healing words. I think the tacticians concern is telling the cleric to heal *himself* is quarterbacking
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Dec 22, 2016 15:59
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:The problem such as it is is basically the cleric not healing himself. He'll take multiple turns while bloodied without healing himself then get hit again as he's a melee build and go down with two unspent healing words. I think the tacticians concern is telling the cleric to heal *himself* is quarterbacking
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Dec 22, 2016 18:01
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Also, that he has a Second Wind.
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Dec 23, 2016 09:09
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gradenko_2000 posted:It's difficult to draw a clear line, but "I'm loving dying, loving heal me" is something that I feel would definitely fall under "not quarterbacking" Cthulhu Dreams posted:The problem such as it is is basically the cleric not healing himself. He'll take multiple turns while bloodied without healing himself then get hit again as he's a melee build and go down with two unspent healing words. I think the tacticians concern is telling the cleric to heal *himself* is quarterbacking "you're loving dying heal up" is also a valid in character statement
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Dec 23, 2016 13:25
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The Skald has a heal that other PCs can use for themselves.
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Dec 23, 2016 16:40
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Yeah, it's normal to coach someone when they're learning a new system that differs significantly from their previous experiences. Your group should be reminding him to heal early and often, because you need to break him out of his crappy 3.x healing mindset. And if the cleric throws a fit because you guys are pointing out to him how to better play in the system you're playing, he's kind of a poo poo-heel. Ex. "Hey dude, I know in 3.x you didn't want to heal until someone was near-dead, but in this system it's beneficial to use your heals when someone drops below bloodied. Since you just hit bloodied, you're gonna want to use a healing word on yourself." Edit: or if he continues to freak out about it, why not offer to let him and another player switch characters/roles so someone else can be the healer and show him how not to gently caress it up. Dick Burglar fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 20:49
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Battleminds might also be a solution since they just give out THP like candy, and that's still pretty explicitly combat only. EditShardminds, especially, since they can get a feat that lets them trigger another player's second wind when they use their own.
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Dec 23, 2016 22:59
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Here's an easy comparison: in 3.5x is really easy to 'waste' actions and 'waste' heals if you use them at appropriate times. In 4e, if you're not healing, you're 'wasting' your heals and 'wasting' your minor actions, since you probably don't have any other use for them and using surges without the use of a power is worse than being healed.
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Dec 24, 2016 03:34
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Ran a fun session yesterday. Level 5 rogue druid shaman warlord (with cleric npc'd), vs level 7 black dragon solo. I put it in an 8x8 room, and added environmental effects. At the beginning of each round, 4 2x2 clouds would move onto a player, and at the end of round it would do 15-45 damage. In addition to that, I had 6-10 one tile pillars popping out of the ground each round to isolate players and encourage them into the clouds. Party did some really great manuevering and pushing the dragon into clouds, and i got them to negative health a couple times. Great fight  Then the next fight, a level 4 dragon we had ignored, the party stomped, not least because our warlord thought wolf pack tactics gave a free attack to allies, instead of a free shift 
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Dec 29, 2016 00:15
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I'm in a group that's about to wrap up a campaign that's been running since early summer, maybe late April or early May? I used to not be particularly interested in D&D as a system for an impression it was too formulaic - in the sense of math and not rules or whatever. After playing a brawler fighter and doing things like "grab a fire elemental by the face while the party looks on in shock" I have to say I've had a good time, even if I proooobably have not played optimally or chosen the best feats/powers/items
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Dec 29, 2016 02:47
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So, heres the plan for next session. Facing 5-7 level 6s. Green star is entrance Blue box is level 5 hobgob commander, reskinned as living champion Red box is level 5 hobgob commander, reskinned as undead champion They'll guard the stair (the thick blocks) The blue arrow is where the living minions will come in, 3 to start, +1 each round (adjusting to taste) The red arrow is where the undead minions will come in, 3 to start, +1 each round (adjusting to taste) Stats are level 5 spitting cobras The next terrace up is a level 6 solo dragon, reskinned as a dracolich. He'll do his monologue, minions will start, and the southern portals will open  Blue portal extends a lifeline that gives 20 temporary hp for each round spent in the line, but if it goes above the max hp it begins death checks. The line will explode any undead minions that cross it, and does damage to the undead champion Red portal extends a deathline that gives 20 damage for each round spent in the line, followed by death checks at 0. The line will explode any living minions that cross it, and does damage to the living champion. The idea is, the PCs will try to get in the way of the cords, while the champions will try to do the same. Temp hp and death counters erase each other (so spending a round in both cords will result in 0) When the champions are bloodied, they'll retreat to the next terrace, and the dragon will become more active in the fight. When the dragon is bloodied, the other portals open. Minions and portals die when the dragon does. 
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Dec 29, 2016 03:36
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For my homebrew 4e-ish D&D clone, I'm debating a small change to how knowledge skills are doled out. Specifically, power sources granting you a few trained knowledge skills. Context: ability scores are dead; each class gets 2 power sources (with a fair bit of customizability) How does this list look?
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Dec 31, 2016 00:42
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Has anyone ever done a Paladin/Dragon Sorcerer hybrid that made use of one of those two heavily defenderish themed Dragon Sorcerer paragon paths? It feels like it could work out to something reasonably mechanically effective and thematically cool, but I haven't sat down and actually tried to work out the numbers and I'm curious if anyone else has tried it.
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Dec 31, 2016 06:21
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P.d0t posted:For my homebrew 4e-ish D&D clone, I'm debating a small change to how knowledge skills are doled out. Specifically, power sources granting you a few trained knowledge skills. What's the difference between First Aid and Medical?
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Dec 31, 2016 06:28
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P.d0t posted:For my homebrew 4e-ish D&D clone, I'm debating a small change to how knowledge skills are doled out. Specifically, power sources granting you a few trained knowledge skills. The first thing that stands out to me is that while Martial, Divine, and Arcane each have one unique skill, Primal has two and Shadow has none.
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Dec 31, 2016 06:32
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Obligatum VII posted:Has anyone ever done a Paladin/Dragon Sorcerer hybrid that made use of one of those two heavily defenderish themed Dragon Sorcerer paragon paths? It feels like it could work out to something reasonably mechanically effective and thematically cool, but I haven't sat down and actually tried to work out the numbers and I'm curious if anyone else has tried it. I see far more Fighter/Sorcerers, though that's in part because there's a Paragon Path explicitly for that combo. Paladin/Sorcerer suffers from the same problems most hybrids suffer from - you only have one standard action, and your AC is going to be in the pits (remember, you can't be a dragon paladin without taking hybrid talent for it, which means no paladin armor).
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Dec 31, 2016 23:44
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My campaign took a little Christmas break, but we're gearing to get back into action and it's time for me to finally 100% for realsies this time finalize my three stage dragon end boss. My notes so far: Basic concept: a prismatic dragon who has mastered the seven basic elements. In each form, the dragon takes a full turn on his initiative, as well as on his initiative +10. (If necessary I'll fudge things so at least one PC is inserted between his two turns by default.) He gets one immediate action inbetween each of his turns. At the end of each turn, he makes a saving throw against dazing, stunning and dominating effects even if they're not (save ends). In each form he gets +5 to saving throws and one Action Point. Human Form He's still confident at this stage and uses mainly elemental spells. They all have effects that stick around for more than one turn. MBA: clawed gauntlets, deal damage and blind target until the end of its next turn. AW: use the MBA twice. Spells (each is an Encounter power): Acid Swamp (area burst): acid damage, miss half. Create a zone until end of encounter; entering, starting your turn and falling prone all deal 5 acid damage. Difficult terrain. Contagious Poisoning (ranged, single target): poison damage, ongoing poison damage (save ends). Aftereffect: repeat attack in a burst around the target. Flaming Sphere (area burst): fire damage, create a fireball in the center square. Ending your turn adjacent deals 10 fire damage. Move sphere as move action, sustain minor. Freezing Cone (blast): cold damage, slow (save ends). First failed save: immobilize (save ends). Second failed save: restrained until escape. Although I wonder if petrified would be out of line, or what a good ending condition for it would be. Lightning Charge (ranged, multitarget): lightning damage, pull. Effect: until end of encounter, creatures starting adjacent to the dragon take 5 lightning damage. This gives him two and a half rounds of action and by that point this stage should be on its way out. Still (maybe) missing though: - some immediate action to take advantage of the double turns? - something to do with Minor actions other than sustaining the fire? - some recharge power to use once his spells are out, just to keep things fresh? Anyway, once he goes down, he uses his breath weapon and transitions to stage 2: the dragon form. This is where things get more complicated. Breath Weapon: Prismatic Breath Three attacks in the same blast: vs. Fortitude: ongoing 10 poison damage (save ends) vs. Reflex: damage of all types combined, miss half vs. Will: dazed (save ends) Being caught in this attack is supposed to be extremely bad news, and predicting and avoiding it is supposed to be the main gimmick of stage 2. To this end I'm stealing the timing mechanics from MM3 catastrophic dragons. Dragon Form Aura: Prismatic Fog. This does many things: - enemies that end their turn in it take some damage - as a free action, when the dragon takes elemental damage, any enemy in the aura also takes damage of an equal type (but a fixed amount, mind) - each turn the aura grows by 1, and once it's at a certain size, the dragon sucks it back in and powers his breath weapon with it. The way I figure it is, he should be able to use his breath weapon roughly as often as if it were a recharge power, but with some predictability introduced in the mix. Apart from that, a standard MBA/Double Attack combo, an immediate action tail slap that punishes PCs moving into flanking position (push and/or knock prone?), and maybe something to do with his wings? Just cause they're there? (Spitballing: the turn before he uses Prismatic Breath he protects himself with his wings, gaining damage resistance, but the turn after he uses it he's briefly vulnerable?) Once this stage goes down, they did it. The dragon's dead. But wait: with his last breath he tries to take everyone with him, and the party has to fight his very soul to escape. Soul Form In this entire stage, the dragon counts as bloodied. Also, he's now starting to rely more on necrotic and psychic damage. Would it be out of line to say everyone takes ongoing 5 necrotic until he's defeated? Not too many notes apart from that yet, this is a pretty work-in-progress stage. One potential gimmick could be that instead of HP, its positioning that's the key, and the party has to move the dragon into a specific place to win ("the light at the end of the tunnel"), taking care not to get dragged along. But they don't exactly specialize in forced movement and I'm not so sure it would work well. Maybe for each X damage they do he goes one square closer to the end, but can offset it with his own move speed? (They do somewhat specialize in slowing enemies - that could be a serious gamechanger in this context.)
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Jan 3, 2017 15:57
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(I hope these huge here's-my-concept posts I do aren't getting on anyone's nerves. Honestly, it mostly just helps me figure stuff out better if I write it down somewhere other than where only I will read it. ) I looked at some existing monsters to get inspiration for stage 3 and I think I'm gonna adapt the purple worm of all things, reflavouring Swallow Whole as some kind of "erasure from existence." Party fights the dragon's soul in the astral realm, and he keeps trying to unmake them, dumping them in some kind of void where they take massive ongoing damage and can only see/target him (and any other PCs in the void). Apart from that the worm already comes with regular attacks and immediate actions so once I reflavour them and adjust defenses and damage types I'm good on that front. And to make things ramp up appropriately for this very final fight I'm also gonna steal 13th Age's escalation die.
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Jan 4, 2017 17:42
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My Lovely Horse posted:Soul Form I love this kind of thing. It has the whole sort of "pushing against the enrage timer" feeling that some of the better WoW bosses had, and it is a nice way to add some tension to a fight.
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Jan 5, 2017 00:50
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That's the idea, a battle against time as well as the dragon soul. Math chat: I'm gonna tweak the numbers so there's an average 65% hit rate on both sides. This leaves the dragon with the regular attack bonuses for his level, but with defenses 2 lower than recommended. Figures - my players usually choose defensive over offensive options and are a little behind the curve. I'd rather have interesting effects happening all over the place than constant whiffing in this fight, though. As a side effect, if they manage to draw the battle out until the escalation die in the last stage is in full effect, everyone will hit on anything but a natural 1. I averaged everyone's defenses and attack bonuses and set the target numbers accordingly; taking the math back to individual characters this means: AC: squishy strikers, controllers and leaders get hit 3/4 of the time. Defenders get hit 40-50%. Fort/Ref: bang on 65% for the most part Will: everyone fares a little better here - so maybe I can even make his attacks against Will a little nastier Attacking: everyone hits closer to 70% of the time, only one defender drags the average down and has a hard time even getting to 60% hit chance. I've been telling him for three years this would happen. At this point and particularly with the boss defenses already adjusted down, I kinda feel like he's reaping what he sowed.
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Jan 5, 2017 10:53
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Anyone use fourthcore? What did you think?
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Jan 5, 2017 16:39
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Loel posted:Anyone use fourthcore? What did you think? I use Level 1 Damage Forever and the players seemed to really enjoy the increased lethality of the combat, and I have read about Fourthcore, but I could never find a single compiled PDF about what it all was.
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Jan 5, 2017 16:56
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gradenko_2000 posted:I use Level 1 Damage Forever and the players seemed to really enjoy the increased lethality of the combat, and I have read about Fourthcore, but I could never find a single compiled PDF about what it all was. And yes another vote for L1 Damage Forever.
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Jan 5, 2017 21:46
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gradenko_2000 posted:I use Level 1 Damage Forever and the players seemed to really enjoy the increased lethality of the combat, and I have read about Fourthcore, but I could never find a single compiled PDF about what it all was. dwarf74 posted:AFAIK it was just a series of adventures like Tomb of the Iron Lich. Oh, neat. Ill share what I've got so far then. MM3 math, of course Nightmare mode for damage Im stealing the escalation/damage on miss from 13th age, so combats should be very fast and bloody. Im thinking escalation will apply to hit/damage/recharges, and damage on miss will be 1/2 level. 4core's big thing is vicious fights (as seen above), along with interesting puzzles, traps, and environmental effects, often at the same time. Its a very tournament/tomb of horrors feel, although I am unsure if I want to do the timed events. DMG 42 has a big example. I'm also cribbing notes from Sly Flourish since I havent run 4e before The basic atmosphere is Alphabet along with Armoury and Im encouraging my players to be able to reroll dead toons in ~15 minutes, with further optimization taking place over the week. For the dungeon itself, Ill be updating Durlag's Tower to 4e, and changing the architecture a bit Finally, Im using diablo style encumbrance rules paired with consumable rules I found in one of the OSR books. "Limited-use items, presumably things like ammo, has something called a Usage Die mechanic: whenever you use a limited-use item, roll a d20. If it comes up a 1 or 2, the Usage Die becomes a d12. Every time you roll the Usage Die and it comes up a 1 or 2, the die size becomes smaller and smaller until it's a d4 and then the item is completely consumed on the next 1 or 2 result" Edit: helpful turn order sheets: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?512805-Character-amp-Turn-Off-Turn-Sheets-AKA-Easy-Action-Management-w-PDFs Loel fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Jan 6, 2017 |
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Jan 6, 2017 04:12
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Just had an idea for the dragon fight. Stage 2 introduces elemental motes, one per element. They don't attack and can be destroyed in one or two hits; if one is destroyed the dragon uses access to that element. That is, it's no longer present in his breath weapon, his aura no longer reacts to it, and even lingering effects from stage 1 could end. The purpose is to introduce an element of choice: do you focus on the dragon and withstand his powerful attacks, or do you spend actions on destroying a mote that might have been better used putting an effect on the big guy? Could also give him elemental resistance that goes away as above if I wanted to make destroying the motes a more pressing matter. Thoughts?
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Jan 6, 2017 16:33
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My Lovely Horse posted:Just had an idea for the dragon fight. Stage 2 introduces elemental motes, one per element. They don't attack and can be destroyed in one or two hits; if one is destroyed the dragon uses access to that element. That is, it's no longer present in his breath weapon, his aura no longer reacts to it, and even lingering effects from stage 1 could end. The purpose is to introduce an element of choice: do you focus on the dragon and withstand his powerful attacks, or do you spend actions on destroying a mote that might have been better used putting an effect on the big guy? I'm all for gimmicks like this, although the big caveat is generally how to make attacking the mote to be potentially valuable enough to compete with just attacking the dragon directly, so you have to be aware of that.
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Jan 6, 2017 16:37
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