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negromancer posted:Their HR person reached out to me and let me know them going with the other candidate wasn't personal, it was a "culture fit", to which I then included said email into my talk.
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Dec 21, 2016 23:12
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Gaunab posted:Some of those seem like general villain stereotypes. I won't argue about black characters in general needing to be fleshed out. I've seen way too many movies and shows where they've had the black characters fade into the background. That may be partially true, but it's still worth nothing that there are frequently white villains who do not have these characteristics but black villains always have at least some of them. Less variety == stereotyping.
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Dec 21, 2016 23:25
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I had to tell a friend yesterday that racism still exist. It's the second time I've had to tell someone that in two weeks. It was so dumbfounding. He also showed me this video. Middle class white people really want to hold onto the idea that they got where they are thanks to hard work.
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Dec 22, 2016 19:48
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Gaunab posted:I had to tell a friend yesterday that racism still exist. It's the second time I've had to tell someone that in two weeks. It was so dumbfounding. He also showed me this video. Middle class white people really want to hold onto the idea that they got where they are thanks to hard work. They did get there thanks to their hard work. What a lot of my fellow white folks don't understand is that the unspoken part of that is "and weren't prevented by structural racism from doing so," like so many equally or even more hard working PoC are. I try to get my family to understand this part, and though it's not perfect, it helps.
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Dec 22, 2016 19:54
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Talmonis posted:They did get there thanks to their hard work. What a lot of my fellow white folks don't understand is that the unspoken part of that is "and weren't prevented by structural racism from doing so," like so many equally or even more hard working PoC are. I try to get my family to understand this part, and though it's not perfect, it helps. I think I saw it in here, but I saw someone phrase it as white privilege means having to jump two feet instead of six for the same result.
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Dec 22, 2016 20:04
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Talmonis posted:They did get there thanks to their hard work. What a lot of my fellow white folks don't understand is that the unspoken part of that is "and weren't prevented by structural racism from doing so," like so many equally or even more hard working PoC are. I try to get my family to understand this part, and though it's not perfect, it helps. Americans actually don't work as hard as 1st gen immigrants. That work hard ethic dies down by 3rd generation within all racial groups...So your regular ol white Irish/Anglo/German America actually doesn't work that hard. They have it pretty easy.
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Dec 22, 2016 20:07
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Idia posted:Americans actually don't work as hard as 1st gen immigrants. That work hard ethic dies down by 3rd generation within all racial groups...So your regular ol white Irish/Anglo/German America actually doesn't work that hard. They have it pretty easy. Yeah, but for some reason pointing out that white people have it easier translates in some people's minds to "therefore, if you're white and successful, you did no work at all." I don't know why, I have no problem accepting that privilege and sheer dumb luck on a few occasions played a major role in me being where I am today. I've also worked hard along the way, but I sure as gently caress didn't get here by that alone.
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Dec 22, 2016 20:22
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Please stop having woke olympics.
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Dec 22, 2016 20:24
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Gaunab posted:I had to tell a friend yesterday that racism still exist. It's the second time I've had to tell someone that in two weeks. It was so dumbfounding. He also showed me this video. Middle class white people really want to hold onto the idea that they got where they are thanks to hard work. They don't want to think about racism because if they do then it internally holds them accountable. And it simultaneously doesn't exist but does exist but only the guys in pointy white hoods believe it. Everything about the behavior is distancing themselves from the problem as much as possible. They see the world through their own lens and because their world caters so heavily to them, it's a self reinforcing set of beliefs. Since they don't think anybody should get something they didn't earn, they'll never accept they have things they themselves didn't really earn.
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Dec 22, 2016 20:25
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Panfilo posted:They don't want to think about racism because if they do then it internally holds them accountable. And it simultaneously doesn't exist but does exist but only the guys in pointy white hoods believe it. Everything about the behavior is distancing themselves from the problem as much as possible. The thing is, no one is saying they didn't earn them. We're saying you won, but you won a race where everyone else had to carry cinder blocks and jump hurdles while they got to run the race unencumbered. White people should, and rightfully so, wonder if they would have what they have on a level playing field. I can tell you just from looking at the fields I've worked in, no, a lot absolutely would not.
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Dec 23, 2016 06:13
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The thought that ought to come easy, but never does, is "wow if it was this hard for me, imagine how hard it was for someone who didn't have the advantages I did."
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Dec 23, 2016 08:01
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I think the thought that comes instead is "there are so many opportunities in america, so anyone who can't get to where I am must be lazy or not want it enough."
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Dec 23, 2016 08:07
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I'm more of a lurker but I felt I should fully introduce myself now that I've completely read through both this and the Misogynoir threads. I won't post much because I'm not nearly as educated on a lot of topics as other posters in these threads but I do enjoy reading them and learning in general. I'm currently stationed in Korea as part of the Air Force and I've come to realize how important a positive image of Black Americans is when American media influences opinions of us abroad so strongly. I was also really big into video games and anime when I was younger and even than I was acutely aware of the lack of POC in these types of media. This plus my increasing realization of the Eurocentrism and overall white focus of mainstream history has led to a continued search for a way to use my interests and talents, to create a series that will inspire young kids that black (African) history is just as important and cool as European history i.e. Ethiopia, Oyo, Ndongo, etc. I think what really made this all click in my mind is this map:  This is from a game called Europa Universalis that simulates the beginning of European dominance and imperialism. It takes a Eurocentric point of view that if Europe couldn't colonize it than its history obviously isn't important and thus it labels vast swathes of Africa wasteland (The darker black areas are wasteland). I'm working on a mod to rectify this but this shows the poisonous mindset in regard to African history that exists not just in America but internationally. That's why I’m looking into becoming a cultural anthropologist to get out there and document a lot of this African history that is just getting ignored. Maybe in my free time I’ll finally create that story, comic, or video game that gets young black kids interested and proud in their own black history. If anyone has any resources for seeking an anthropology degree or learning programming that would be greatly appreciated. I realize this is kind of long but I've had a lot to think about over the past few years. tallboarLittlehand fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 12:33
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Alright, one more post but this is more to head off a very distinct possibility, that is of nerds coming in here to defend their hobby from attack. 1. Yes, I know they recently expanded Africa into the Kongo and Great Lakes. 2. Yes, I know about the new unit packs that replaced the previous incredibly terrible ones that presented all Africans as spear-wielding savages. 3. Yes, I know there were a lack of large state like entities in the remaining wasteland parts of Africa. Yet, both Siberian and Native American tribes are represented on the map. 4. No, there's no excuse for the continued existence of large parts of Africa as wasteland and most explanations are racists in some way. No, gameplay is not a good excuse. Sorry, for potentially derailing the thread but hopefully that should dissuade them from coming to argue in here.
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Dec 23, 2016 12:51
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LunarShadow posted:I think I saw it in here, but I saw someone phrase it as white privilege means having to jump two feet instead of six for the same result. It was Ta-Nehisi Coates in his interview with Trevor Noah, I believe.
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Dec 23, 2016 13:06
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negromancer posted:The thing is, no one is saying they didn't earn them. We're saying you won, but you won a race where everyone else had to carry cinder blocks and jump hurdles while they got to run the race unencumbered. White people should, and rightfully so, wonder if they would have what they have on a level playing field. I can tell you just from looking at the fields I've worked in, no, a lot absolutely would not. They can't imagine such a thing as those hurdles mattering because they have never had to deal with them. It's like a some random couch potato convinced that they could totally dominate the Olympic champions because it "can't be that hard."
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Dec 23, 2016 13:28
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Gaunab posted:Some of those seem like general villain stereotypes. I won't argue about black characters in general needing to be fleshed out. I've seen way too many movies and shows where they've had the black characters fade into the background. I just wanted to comment on this quick, since this does actually intersect with the gay part of my life: I think more what's being expressed is that while, yes, these are general villain stereotypes, they're so often and so frequently ascribed to "the other" that, even if it's a good and nuanced portrayal of said villain, you just start to get really, really tired of seeing it. In my case, it's seeing the Big Evil(/and-or milquetoast antagonistic) Lesbian as one of the few vanguards standing against the tide of 'gay female that really is gay, seriously, except for with this one awesome dude' and/or 'bisexual female that gets less confused because she finally got with a dude.' I can think of only a handful of instances in film/TV/whatever that isn't straight-up Indy where these aren't the slots lesbian/(female) bisexual characters fit into (and inhabit genres I consume). And god help you if you happen to be both black and lesbian. I only mention this because it goes hand in hand with what LMO was saying. You see representation, finally, and maybe the role is nuanced, fleshed out, and feels like a whole person, but if it's 90% of what you see, then it's still 90% of what you see, good or bad, and something in you just says 'no, gently caress you, I'm not giving you credit for that.' Thinking on it, even some of the more conscientious shows I've gotten into usually have 'shifty black man' lurking around in there somewhere, usually in a position of power, usually double-crossing others (especially the leads), putting self before all else, and generally being an antagonist that even the other antagonists are a little nervous around. Oddly, one of the primary examples that comes to mind is Assistant Chief Taylor from The Closer. Even when the dude redeemed himself, he was the hallmark of 'crooked, brutal, glory-hound in-it-for-the-promotions FYGM cop,' especially in the initial first season. Arguably, so was the lead in a lot of ways, but she was given more latitude by mere virtue of being the main character. Bosch is another example. Chief Irving has 'good intentions' at first glance, but he lurks around double-crossing and scheming until something personal hits. He gets his redemptive moments (I have no idea what'll come of that, honestly, the writers could decide to spank him for it some horrible way come S3), but he's initially a political wheeler-and-dealer who appears to only be looking out for number one. He gets a decent portrayal, insofar as he's well-written (at times), but I don't know that I'd call it one that bucks the norm, if that makes sense. He's still someone the other characters have to watch their back around. Both characters are perfectly functional examples of decent villains (even if Taylor is pretty over the top in general). Chief Irving is actually very interesting, as a character. But I could see someone going 'ugh again?? Seriously? Haven't we been through this already?' in response to him turning out to be a not-so-great guy. (and, notably, both series tend to have a notable, as in non-zero number of POC characters that show up, but both are equally notable for having only 'token' POC characters as part of the main ensemble. The Closer switching to Major Crimes and adding Amy Sykes was a nice touch, granted, but...) Anyway, yeah. When the media you consume is saturated with the same gimmicks on repeat, especially in genres you enjoy (and would like to continue enjoying), you start to get-- I don't know. There should be a term for it. Something with 'fatigue' tacked on. Because it feels weirdly exhausting, especially when you have to talk with people who list off all the reasons why, no, seriously, look at how deep and well-written and etc etc etc this character is. (Not a dig; I get where they're coming from, but it is exhausting, since it's completely missing the point). Or maybe you did get it, and I'm just beating a dead horse by chiming in  . I'll sit back down now.fake edit: I do not only consume police procedurals/serialized cop dramas, but that is for some reason what i've been watching lately, so. well. here we are. real edit: wording real edit 2: wording part 2, the un-nuancing Old Boot fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 14:47
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Old Boot posted:
So...we're not supposed to address the fact that you like terrible cop dramas? You sound like you're the person that when Rizzoli and Isles got cancelled wrote TNT a very angry letter. -Signed A Burn Notice fan.
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Dec 23, 2016 20:28
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What about The Wire?
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Dec 23, 2016 20:31
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biracial bear for uncut posted:What about The Wire? Never seen it. *raises flame shield*
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Dec 23, 2016 21:03
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negromancer posted:Never seen it. Neither have I. I see too many white people holding it up as "the realest" for me to trust it.
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Dec 23, 2016 21:55
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Fluffdaddy posted:Neither have I. I see too many white people holding it up as "the realest" for me to trust it. YES! This is why I haven't watched it. Far too many white people like it for me to watch it.
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Dec 23, 2016 22:00
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Same, but non-Baltimoreans
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Dec 23, 2016 22:16
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negromancer posted:A Burn Notice fan. Yeah, that's a good opinion.
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Dec 23, 2016 22:20
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It's a fantastic show with so many great actors that should be in many more roles but Hollywood is hosed  Season 2 wasn't so hot but the rest are solid.
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Dec 23, 2016 22:25
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Chad Coleman is in every goddamn thing. I don't think anyone is gonna flame you for not having seen it but you should go watch it, it's worth the time. negromancer posted:YES! This is certainly an opinion I'd be interested in hearing more about though technically off topic for the thread. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 22:58
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I dunno what people mean by "realest" or whatever since in the end it's a TV drama, and I am not gonna make any value judgements whatsoever about it's social commentary, since that's not my place, but The Wire is a very very good drama.
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Dec 23, 2016 23:13
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Nevvy Z posted:Chad Coleman is in every goddamn thing. I don't think anyone is gonna flame you for not having seen it but you should go watch it, it's worth the time. If white people en masse are raving about the depictions of black characters, its a safe bet its going to piss me the gently caress off with its inaccuracy or racist stereotypes.
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Dec 23, 2016 23:47
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Nah it's pretty good. E: white people probably like it for the wrong reasons and miss a lot of the messages though. AggressivelyStupid fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Dec 24, 2016 |
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Dec 24, 2016 00:16
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It's like baby's first step into finding out that the system in flawed for some people.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:43
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negromancer posted:So...we're not supposed to address the fact that you like terrible cop dramas? Night shift boredom isn't an excuse for lapses in bad taste, I know. v  vThat is, however, a scary accurate description of my parents.
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Dec 24, 2016 02:40
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Fluffdaddy posted:Neither have I. I see too many white people holding it up as "the realest" for me to trust it. I'm a black dude that really enjoyed The Wire as a piece of fiction. I really dislike the ridiculous reaction white people have towards it though. They seem to hold it up as some sort of realistic depiction of all black people and it's really loving gross. There are depictions of middle class, non-criminal black people in the show but they're few and far between. Another thing that bugs me is when they go "I enjoyed Season 2 the most" out of the show. Season 2 is the season that focuses more on white characters, so that always sets off alarms for me, too. Vanderdeath fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Dec 24, 2016 |
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Dec 24, 2016 10:39
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Anyone who says they enjoyed Season 2 the most should definitely set off your Bad Opinion alarm.
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Dec 24, 2016 17:43
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Season 4 was the best because it showed how the kids never had a chance
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Dec 24, 2016 20:28
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So should I watch it or not? I never got around to it and people constantly telling me to watch it set off my gently caress you dad reflex. I tend to be so on the fence about HBO shows in general for how they just throw tits everywhere for no reason, so if the wire treats black characters the way the whole channel treats women I can't imagine I'll enjoy it much.
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Dec 24, 2016 22:37
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:So should I watch it or not? I never got around to it and people constantly telling me to watch it set off my gently caress you dad reflex. I tend to be so on the fence about HBO shows in general for how they just throw tits everywhere for no reason, so if the wire treats black characters the way the whole channel treats women I can't imagine I'll enjoy it much. Well to be fair, Insecure is on HBO and that's a must watch.
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Dec 24, 2016 22:39
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:So should I watch it or not? I never got around to it and people constantly telling me to watch it set off my gently caress you dad reflex. I tend to be so on the fence about HBO shows in general for how they just throw tits everywhere for no reason, so if the wire treats black characters the way the whole channel treats women I can't imagine I'll enjoy it much. The Wire settles into its groove pretty quick, so IMO you can get a good idea of whether you'll like it by just watching the first few episodes. So you might as well do that and see if you like it. Certainly by the end of the first 10-episode season you'll know whether you want to watch the rest.
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Dec 24, 2016 22:50
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I'd recommend watching it. At the very least it's good at telling it's story. It's a shame that it got the reputation it does. Also I don't think it hits its groove until the second half of the first season.
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Dec 24, 2016 23:06
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:So should I watch it or not? I never got around to it and people constantly telling me to watch it set off my gently caress you dad reflex. I tend to be so on the fence about HBO shows in general for how they just throw tits everywhere for no reason, so if the wire treats black characters the way the whole channel treats women I can't imagine I'll enjoy it much.
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Dec 24, 2016 23:10
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It's almost much lighter on the tits than most other HBO shows I think the wire does a good job of showing how a lot of the problems are beyond the control of most people, and both cops and criminals are some what product did their environment. The season about the schools seems some what out of place at first but it shows how a lot of people are failed from the beginning. The problem with this is that the show often stops short of actually stating why this environment these people are forced into this environment. This is my take as a white guy tho. It also does a good job of showing how the white "crusaders," like the stand in for Martin omalley, are more concerned with advancing their own power and their own goals than actually addressing or fixing any of the problems. EwokEntourage fucked around with this message at 07:40 on Dec 25, 2016 |
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Dec 25, 2016 07:12
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