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Yeah, the amber units aren't even really necessary to dominate with the WEs. Even your basic units just end up incredible through techs and the red buffs. e: Aside from feeling that the WEs are tuned a bit too high (tech diplo bonuses, a bit too generous red line buffs, etc) I think the amber mechanic needs some tweaking. I'm not exactly sure what it is, but it kind of feels a bit too restrictive in early and mid game (to the point where you can't even level up your cities) to becoming an afterthought in the late game when every remaining faction in the world are falling all over themselves to ally with you. Damn Dirty Ape fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Dec 22, 2016 |
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Dec 22, 2016 22:47
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Only the most elite units cost amber
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Dec 22, 2016 22:48
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I mean, this is kind of cool but I think the real issue is that the low tier troops are just so good that the higher tier troops just don't feel that great in comparison. I mean, I don't think they are bad but at no point did I feel like the addition of a unit like the Sister's of Thorn really helped my army that much. Almost all of the top tier WE units seem more like novelty units than anything. In that way, they kind of remind me of the dwarfs (pre flame cannon buff). e: once again I'm speaking from a single player campaign perspective. They could be amazing in multiplayer.
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Dec 22, 2016 22:54
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Night10194 posted:You say this like it isn't supposed to convince people dorfs are incredible. Nah I was just bandwagoning the line of dialogue about what is unrealistic or not. But what is true is that dwarfs are double-hitlers. Each.
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Dec 22, 2016 22:58
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True I guess. I play on normal so I have the luxury of just using whatever is coolest, but if I did a VH welf campaign I'm sure I'd just be using t1 units all day.
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Dec 22, 2016 22:59
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Lunethex posted:Nah I was just bandwagoning the line of dialogue about what is unrealistic or not. Only in Blood Bowl and every other tabletop game that involves them, in every mechanical sense. Fluff-wise they're awesome.
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Dec 22, 2016 23:03
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I think the intent of the amber units is that you pick them because they provide you with a reserve if you hit negative amber (e.g. Due to allies declaring war on each other). Since you can disband them, and you can't disband tech. So then you wanna use a mix of them and tech. But the tech is just too good right now. Instead of making only the best units require amber, it might be better to ensure only amber units are improved by tech. Fangz fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Dec 22, 2016 |
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Dec 22, 2016 23:04
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When the second level oak of ages indicates it needs 5 amber to upgrade, does that mean I just need 5 amber total, or 5 amber to spend on it? Also, what should I prioritize building for King's Glade? I feel like I need the Grape Vines for the 800 income or I can't field a full stack, but I also want to rush for EG/Shields. I've beat every other campaign and had fun doing it, but I can not even begin to figure out what to do with the first dozen turns on Wood Elves.
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Dec 22, 2016 23:13
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I'll jump on the train with everyone saying welves are busted in single player. I particularly found that one forest map that's used for all the town/outpost defenses to be amazing (even better than the oak of ages) - you can do so many things with it even with a small stack or just the garrison and it's basically made to be elf hell for the attacker. This definitely was the most busted campaign for me on legendary especially once you can grapevine+wine barrel all four of the home provinces and bathe in a waterfall of gold.
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Dec 22, 2016 23:23
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Mr Gentleman posted:This definitely was the most busted campaign for me on legendary especially once you can grapevine+wine barrel all four of the home provinces and bathe in a waterfall of gold. A golden... shower?
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Dec 23, 2016 01:36
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NeurosisHead posted:When the second level oak of ages indicates it needs 5 amber to upgrade, does that mean I just need 5 amber total, or 5 amber to spend on it? Also, what should I prioritize building for King's Glade? I feel like I need the Grape Vines for the 800 income or I can't field a full stack, but I also want to rush for EG/Shields. I've beat every other campaign and had fun doing it, but I can not even begin to figure out what to do with the first dozen turns on Wood Elves. Build income first, jump your fellow elves to steal their land. The wooden crate building means you want all of them dead or confederated and it's easier to have them dead given you can't confederate until T3 of the oak. Wait until their stacks are away on some war and then just go go go or do the usual "ambush stance near a garrison and then they'll come to you eventually, once it works". Leave the other LL faction alive to confederate later, but once you have all the other elves dead you should be rolling in enough money to have 3 stacks at least. 3 stacks that get post-battle and sack loot as if they were a horde, so may as well go into negative income with 4 or 5.
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Dec 23, 2016 01:58
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Gejnor posted:A golden... shower? If that's what it takes to field another doomstack 
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Dec 23, 2016 01:58
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Please, can someone explain to me the DLC policy of this game and why they cost more than the base game? (I want to buy it but come on this dlc fuckery got to be GW's fault)
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Dec 23, 2016 02:03
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NeurosisHead posted:When the second level oak of ages indicates it needs 5 amber to upgrade, does that mean I just need 5 amber total, or 5 amber to spend on it? Also, what should I prioritize building for King's Glade? I feel like I need the Grape Vines for the 800 income or I can't field a full stack, but I also want to rush for EG/Shields. I've beat every other campaign and had fun doing it, but I can not even begin to figure out what to do with the first dozen turns on Wood Elves. You have to actually spend the amber to upgrade the oak of ages (or your cities to high tiers). I think pretty much every wood elf province needs a grape vine (it's just an incredible economic building) so you probably want to make that a priority, though you might also be able to help by disbanding high upkeep units that you don't really need yet (like waywatchers). Don't feel bad about not being as aggressive early with WEs as you would be with other factions. I spent a lot of early turns taking advantage of the misfortunes of my neighbors. Decus posted:Build income first, jump your fellow elves to steal their land. The wooden crate building means you want all of them dead or confederated and it's easier to have them dead given you can't confederate until T3 of the oak. Wait until their stacks are away on some war and then just go go go or do the usual "ambush stance near a garrison and then they'll come to you eventually, once it works". Leave the other LL faction alive to confederate later, but once you have all the other elves dead you should be rolling in enough money to have 3 stacks at least. 3 stacks that get post-battle and sack loot as if they were a horde, so may as well go into negative income with 4 or 5. In my campaign I was able to move into King's Glade pretty quickly since the Beastmen sacked it while Orion was running around Brettonia somewhere. I kept waiting for an opportunity to come up with the other 2 factions but they never once moved their stacks away from their cities, so I had to play the long game and eventually confederate with them.
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Dec 23, 2016 02:08
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drat Dirty Ape posted:In my campaign I was able to move into King's Glade pretty quickly since the Beastmen sacked it while Orion was running around Brettonia somewhere. I kept waiting for an opportunity to come up with the other 2 factions but they never once moved their stacks away from their cities, so I had to play the long game and eventually confederate with them. Did you declare war on them first? For me one of the stacks failed to leave on its own but moved right away after I declared and left a stack in ambush. Depending on which faction it is they might go for the oak instead of your settlement but they're unlikely to reach and attack either in 1 turn, leaving you with a chance to take them out regardless. Did you still get Orion by taking him out rather than confederating?
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Dec 23, 2016 02:13
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Transmetropolitan posted:Please, can someone explain to me the DLC policy of this game and why they cost more than the base game? Play the base game. It's great by itself. You can still have all the extra units and races and whatnot show up as enemies in the game or playing against you in multiplayer. If you decide you want those things yourself later, you can get them. If you're just upset at the cost of them (seriously?) you can blame CA and GW if it makes you feel better.
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Dec 23, 2016 02:18
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Transmetropolitan posted:Please, can someone explain to me the DLC policy of this game and why they cost more than the base game?
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Dec 23, 2016 02:18
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Transmetropolitan posted:Please, can someone explain to me the DLC policy of this game and why they cost more than the base game? The two main 'race' DLC (the $20 ones) are the wood elves and the beastmen. These are added to your game as AI factions for free, but buying the DLC lets you play as them in the grand campaign (each also includes a mini-campaign) and in multiplayer. I actually would recommend holding off on these unless have a real attachment to one of the races because the base game already has the greenskins, empire, vampire counts, and dwarfs which are all very fun and awesome to play. Once you play a campaign or two of the races that come with the game you'll know whether or not you want the extra race DLC. Buying them all at once would just sort of be overload (since you can't play them all at the same time anyway) unless you got a special deal or something. The two $10 DLC are additions and upgrades to the armies that came with the base game. They basically add new legendary leaders (each race has at least 2 in the base game with no DLC), some new regular units, and mercenary regiments that you can hire (they are like more expensive regular troops but with special bonuses). One pack includes additions for the Empire and Vampire Counts, the other includes additions for the Greenskins and Dwarfs. IMO the second one is the best as it includes a goblin and dwarf LL each with a unique starting position and gameplay objective. The blood and gore DLC is mostly just a graphical thing. I like it because some of the animations are great, but the game is still fun without it. The warriors of chaos is generally considered the weakest of the DLC. It's a new faction with Legendary Lords, but can be kind of a slog to play (most believe beastmen are more fun from a gameplay perspective). I don't think it's BAD DLC, I just think the other ones are more worthwhile. Now I put over 100 hours into the game before ANY DLC was released so in my opinion they are not necessary, but I think they are almost all worth it. Also, there is a lot of free content added fairly regularly (legendary lords, new spell lines, etc) and Bretonnia will be added to the base game for free soon. TLDR the base game is fantastic and you can have a ton of fun playing it with no DLC, but most of the DLC are good and totally worth it if the game 'gels' with you like it has for a lot of us.
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Dec 23, 2016 02:21
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Decus posted:Did you declare war on them first? For me one of the stacks failed to leave on its own but moved right away after I declared and left a stack in ambush. Depending on which faction it is they might go for the oak instead of your settlement but they're unlikely to reach and attack either in 1 turn, leaving you with a chance to take them out regardless. My first GC attempt I tried that, but I was playing Durthu and the first few times I tried that they would always get to the oak first so I finally said 'f it' and decided to wait for an opening that never came (I thought they would at least leave to take an outpost or something). Orion himself never actually got taken out. I just took King's Glade after a Beastman stack came and razed it within the first 20 turns or so while Orion was away. For whatever reason he never held it against me and he managed to take a few outposts so the game never put him in 'full elimination' mode even though he didn't have a real city and couldn't recruit any new units. He valiantly fought with only his starting stack until he was reduced to basically himself and 1 or 2 other units, at which point he confederated with me which gave me him and his 2 or 3 outposts. So basically, I just kind of lucked out that he survived on his own until the oak hit tier 3. e: also lol that somehow with his puny starting army he had already acquired 2 of his 3 artifacts. Damn Dirty Ape fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 02:27
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Ahhhhh, many thanks. I thought that the DLC was more of a "it has quasi-mandatory upgrades" thing instead of additional army choices. About the prices, well, they are certainly cheaper in USD, but the whole bunch in BRL gets more expensive than the base game because they are not discounted. (also my comment about the prices being GW's fault was a bad joke regarding how expensive warhams stuff usually is  sorry about that)
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Dec 23, 2016 02:28
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Transmetropolitan posted:Ahhhhh, many thanks. I thought that the DLC was more of a "it has quasi-mandatory upgrades" thing instead of additional army choices.
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Dec 23, 2016 02:39
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Transmetropolitan posted:Ahhhhh, many thanks. I thought that the DLC was more of a "it has quasi-mandatory upgrades" thing instead of additional army choices. If you don't know anything about the game it can be a real sticker shock to see how much all the existing DLC costs(and it is definitely expensive compared to most games' DLC), but CA has been really good about making everything modular and work together really well so you get a good experience regardless of how much of it you own. For that manner I've found each DLC to be generally worth the price of admission(since the Beastman/Wood Elf campaigns are effectively mini-expansions).
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Dec 23, 2016 03:45
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I don't have the DLC, they seem "okay" priced for all of the weirder animations needed but I'll wait for everything to go on sale at once. For mandatory upgrades, I'd say the greenskins getting a cheap armor piercing unit and vampires getting corpse cart mounts for necromancers which actually gives them a purpose falls into that sort of thing.
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Dec 23, 2016 03:53
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I haven't played a non-welf grand campaign lately, so can anyone confirm stories I've been hearing of Chaos being replaced as the end-game menace by the world-wide Wood Elf invasion? Like they're spreading leafy greens and treehouses instead of chaos taint but they're swallowing the world nonetheless. I played a Morghur campaign up til about turn 30 or so and noticed that Orion easily confederates the entire welf nation bloodlessly in about a dozen turns but didn't play long enough to see the ramifications of that headstart. Like I'm fine having stiff competition on the map but not if they steamroll everything before I do.
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Dec 23, 2016 04:01
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:For mandatory upgrades, I'd say the greenskins getting a cheap armor piercing unit and vampires getting corpse cart mounts for necromancers which actually gives them a purpose falls into that sort of thing. Counterpoint: I beat both of those campaigns before either of those DLCs were released, so I wouldn't say they're mandatory at all. Necros being useless does suck, but you can play a successful and fun campaign without using them.
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Dec 23, 2016 04:06
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Deified Data posted:I haven't played a non-welf grand campaign lately, so can anyone confirm stories I've been hearing of Chaos being replaced as the end-game menace by the world-wide Wood Elf invasion? Like they're spreading leafy greens and treehouses instead of chaos taint but they're swallowing the world nonetheless. I played a Morghur campaign up til about turn 30 or so and noticed that Orion easily confederates the entire welf nation bloodlessly in about a dozen turns but didn't play long enough to see the ramifications of that headstart. In my current legendary campaign after taking altdorf as the undead they got all up in my business and had the #1 strength rating with a ring of razed ruins or outpost around them, but they seem to leave those giant tree cash pinatas undefended quite often.
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Dec 23, 2016 04:13
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Deified Data posted:I haven't played a non-welf grand campaign lately, so can anyone confirm stories I've been hearing of Chaos being replaced as the end-game menace by the world-wide Wood Elf invasion? Like they're spreading leafy greens and treehouses instead of chaos taint but they're swallowing the world nonetheless. I played a Morghur campaign up til about turn 30 or so and noticed that Orion easily confederates the entire welf nation bloodlessly in about a dozen turns but didn't play long enough to see the ramifications of that headstart. The wood elves are basically a perfect storm for how the AI works. The AI gets to cheat confederation and amber requirements so they get access to the tremendous economic powerhouse of Athel Loren extremely fast and the T1 and T2 units in the elf army are serious shitwreckers so the AI's tendency to fill their armies with T1 and T2 units means they're actually constructing powerful forces as the WE. Couple those factors with their ability to conquer anywhere and you have pretty much the deadliest AI faction in the game. They're actually more deadly than Chaos, IMO, because while the Storm of Chaos is one big poo poo event once you deal with it it's done whereas the WE will keep pumping doomstacks at you until you burn their lovely forest to the ground. They're also hellaciously annoying to deal with in tactical because the buffed archers mean they will inflict significant casualties even when you wipe them off the field.
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Dec 23, 2016 04:22
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Don't look forward to my next Greenskin campaign where I conquer the Badlands only to go north and see nothing but welf outposts. Everyone's top priority has to be taking them out now or else every endgame is going to be exactly the same. e. Unless you mod out confederation. 
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Dec 23, 2016 04:25
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Deified Data posted:e. Unless you mod out confederation. I just tried this today and was amazed at how much more dynamic and interesting it makes the campaign. If you do it I strongly recommend a better AI army composition mod though because without the enormous economy bonus the AI factions get from easy confederation they basically can't contest land anymore with the default army building AI.
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Dec 23, 2016 05:14
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That said it occurs to me that some quests rely on confederation, right? I know there's one in the Beastmen mini-campaign. Isn't that also how you recruit Karl Franz? Alternately there's the mod that gets rid of the AI's confederation bonus but I'm not sure how much that helps. Welves really want to confederate. Deified Data fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 05:21
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Deified Data posted:Alternately there's the mod that gets rid of the AI's confederation bonus but I'm not sure how much that helps. Welves really want to confederate. Doesn't upgrading the Oak to level 3 allow guaranteeed confederation for welfs? Maybe try modding the behavior of that instead?
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Dec 23, 2016 05:26
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Deified Data posted:That said it occurs to me that some quests rely on confederation, right? I know there's one in the Beastmen mini-campaign. Isn't that also how you recruit Karl Franz? Yeah you give up some stuff if you mod out confederation. There's a mod that instantly puts you at the end battle of any given item questline that sidesteps the issue of not being able to get items but you're SOL for getting confederation locked lords if you do. my dad posted:Doesn't upgrading the Oak to level 3 allow guaranteeed confederation for welfs? Maybe try modding the behavior of that instead? For the player, it's not guaranteed confederation, it just enables the option period and you still need to do it diplomatically as normal. The AI has absolutely no need to upgrade the Oak to confederate and has no cooldown on confederation like the player does so it will generally snap up the other factions in <20 turns.
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Dec 23, 2016 07:06
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Burning that stupid forest down should be priority number one if you play as non wood elf. Go full Reagan and kill the hippies and salt the earth.
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Dec 23, 2016 07:24
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Playing as wurzzag in the badlands and I think I've hosed up. Barely able to hold back the tides of humans and dwarves, with their gold chevroned special units. Every two armies I dismantle, three more appear. Are you meant to go hell for leather and go a conquering asap?
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Dec 23, 2016 09:53
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The wood elves were crazy annoying to deal with and I imagine they would of engulfed their side of the world if I didn't burn down that forest. I gave the increased beastman presence mod a try, haven't hit the archaeon invasion yet, but I didn't really notice it's effects while playing as the vampires, in fact burning down the wood elf forest made them all make peace treaties with me and khazrak eventually asked to go into a military alliance with me, which I figure would have it's upsides if the world already hates me unless he'll backstab when archaeon shows up. The hardest part of any campaign seems to be that period where you can easily take over neighboring cities but expanding too fast causes every single neighbor to invade you and making too many fronts to fight without going into negative income to defend it all, better to sack and build up a elite force with economy to back it up and whatever you do don't spend money or population on towns that are vulnerable to being sacked constantly, rush walls if you can defend them while they build and get walls in towns so they can kill rebels by themselves without having to keep a army around them and if your town is close to rebelling you might as well raid the area with your nearby army and pop the rebels. How does the no confederation mod make the campaign feel? doesn't it make the main factions a bit weaker or does it let them build alliances with more standing armies between you and the main faction? I'm trying a better army composition mod and level 4 settlements and even single minor city factions can field a decent mid-tier army and they don't seem to have any weird 19 mortar armies and they sometimes add their heroes to the stacks. Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 10:03
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Decus posted:Build income first, jump your fellow elves to steal their land. The wooden crate building means you want all of them dead or confederated and it's easier to have them dead given you can't confederate until T3 of the oak. Wait until their stacks are away on some war and then just go go go or do the usual "ambush stance near a garrison and then they'll come to you eventually, once it works". Leave the other LL faction alive to confederate later, but once you have all the other elves dead you should be rolling in enough money to have 3 stacks at least. 3 stacks that get post-battle and sack loot as if they were a horde, so may as well go into negative income with 4 or 5. There's no need to fight your elf friends. It's way less hassle to get enough amber to confederate via Brettonian "allies" (they'll need to be betrayed eventually). Beeline for the Lady in the Lake tech and spend the first 25-30 turns beating up beastmen/burning down random, unprotected villages.
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Dec 23, 2016 11:36
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sassassin posted:Beeline for the Lady in the Lake tech and spend the first 25-30 turns beating up beastmen/burning down random, unprotected villages. Or go early military alliance with Durthu and spend the whole game at war with everyone! It makes the game harder, but is absolutely the correct thing to do
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Dec 23, 2016 12:00
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:How does the no confederation mod make the campaign feel? doesn't it make the main factions a bit weaker or does it let them build alliances with more standing armies between you and the main faction? I'm trying a better army composition mod and level 4 settlements and even single minor city factions can field a decent mid-tier army and they don't seem to have any weird 19 mortar armies and they sometimes add their heroes to the stacks. It definitely makes the main factions weaker so you definitely need better army comp and possibly T4 settlements to make sure the AI can build decent armies, but it adds a lot of variety to things and you get unexpected and interesting situations like Middenland conquering the Empire or some random Greenskin tribe rolling Grimgor.
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Dec 23, 2016 12:04
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http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Twelfth_Day_of_Festag_2016 The final teaser is King Louen, because we were all dying to get a glimpse of the guy who's been in the game since release. Nice select screen vid though.
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Dec 23, 2016 13:35
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Kanos posted:It definitely makes the main factions weaker so you definitely need better army comp and possibly T4 settlements to make sure the AI can build decent armies, but it adds a lot of variety to things and you get unexpected and interesting situations like Middenland conquering the Empire or some random Greenskin tribe rolling Grimgor. Hmm... makes me wonder what would happen if you made it so all factions can confederate. Meaning it would be possible to see wacky poo poo like Nordland confederating The Empire. I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Dec 23, 2016 14:19
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