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I'm not used to playing squishy (to me defined as not-MI/GR) characters, but I finally had a HaBe running really well until I ran into 3 caustic shrikes and a Lich. I went from steamrolling to dead faster than I could say "What the-" One day I will ascend a KoBe and/or HaBe. I never had issued with caustic shrikes before but now I can see why they're so terrifying. I'm sure I could have played smarter to avoid it but still 
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Dec 23, 2016 14:16
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I'm not really sure why High Elves aren't allowed to exist but Halflings are. VVV No I mean from an apts perspective, I don't get why Halflings are considered more interesting than High Elves were. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 15:13
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^^^ well you have to have a couple of boring basic species. I wouldn't be personally surprised if they were on the chopping block eventually, but I think they're quite a bit more distict and interesting than high elves with their slightly more specific aptitudes and small size. You guys are really blowing the whole Tolkien thing out of proportion. The commit just said they wanted to have less of the straight up Tolkien fantasy stuff, not that they wanted to completely purge all races that could theoretically be linked to Tolkien. It wasn't even the primary reason for the HE cut. tweet my meat fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 15:23
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The primary stated reason is that they play the same as tengu, which is crap. This leaves the tolkien explanation, which deserves ridicule.
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Dec 23, 2016 15:58
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Tengu are specialists, High Elves were very much generalists. There are some superficial similarities, but those are absurdly broad(casts spells. hits stuff. Not deep elf levels of frail).
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Dec 23, 2016 16:05
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Cynic Jester posted:Tengu are specialists, High Elves were very much generalists. There are some superficial similarities, but those are absurdly broad(casts spells. hits stuff. Not deep elf levels of frail). For general generalists we've still got humans which are pretty much equally mediocre-to-decent at everything, as opposed to High Elves who were specialized generalists since they had melee+magic synergy (compared to tengu who are bad at support magic) e: Chakan posted:I just don't buy any argument that says "humans can do it." I literally only play humans as wanderers because every other race has something interesting. Humans exist to be a boring baseline for new players to quickly realize the strengths and weakenesses other races have. Humans have to exist because the game has to have human as one of the races, but I'd rather lose them than any other race. That's kinda what I mean, they're boring and generic and Crawl seems to be balanced so you have to specialize in something in order to stay alive, and humans having "the ability to adapt to anything" hardly means anything when there's nothing they're actually good at. silentsnack fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 16:28
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I just don't buy any argument that says "humans can do it." I literally only play humans as wanderers because every other race has something interesting. Humans exist to be a boring baseline for new players to quickly realize the strengths and weakenesses other races have. Humans have to exist because the game has to have human as one of the races, but I'd rather lose them than any other race.
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Dec 23, 2016 16:34
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So since Wands of Heal Wounds are gone, how about this doesn't happen?quote:This trove needs 13 potions of heal wounds to function. Give it the items? My response: Hahahahaahhahahahellno.
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Dec 23, 2016 16:35
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I still think Halflings should be reflavored as Goblins.
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Dec 23, 2016 17:05
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Carcer posted:The primary stated reason is that they play the same as tengu, which is crap. Sadly, it's true. I agree that removing high elves purely for being 'tolkeinesque' would deserve ridicule, so it's a good thing that's not what happened!
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Dec 23, 2016 17:32
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Roctavian posted:I still think Halflings should be reflavored as Goblins. why would goblins have rMut though? I like goblins more than halflings though so I wouldn't mind even despite that
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Dec 23, 2016 17:37
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Mr. Lobe posted:why would goblins have rMut though? honestly, why do halflings have rmut?
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Dec 23, 2016 17:43
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PleasingFungus posted:honestly, why do halflings have rmut? Lord of the Rings.
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Dec 23, 2016 17:46
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PleasingFungus posted:Sadly, it's true. I've played a lot of games as High Elf and Tengu and never felt they were too similar. Mainly because Tengu are fragile pieces of garbage with really bizarre magic aptitudes that combo poorly with their offensive prowess.
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Dec 23, 2016 17:50
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Mr. Lobe posted:why would goblins have rMut though? This was what someone said the first time I suggested the change. Then someone else said that I only came up with the idea because of personal pride and ego. His name was KoboldLord though so it was probably just fantasy racism.
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Dec 23, 2016 17:58
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Serephina posted:I love halflings. Or loved, past tense. I see utterly no point to the race since they murdered their hybrid stats.
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Dec 23, 2016 18:53
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Halflings are my main race right now. I'm pretty much doing nothing but HaSk until I'm decent enough to clear lair and orc pretty consistently.
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Dec 23, 2016 19:15
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If the Orcish Mines spawn with more than one food shop, they have a chance of being replaced with the halfling warrens, a more range oriented variant, with halfling assassins that can shadow step next to you if you stand still for two turns. Their warpers are low level, however, with blink (cool down) and portal projectile on a tomahawk variant or lesser beckoning and shroud on the sword and board variant. There are, unfortunately slinger variants, but fortunately a lot of corridors. The final vault is a bit nasty, opening up into a dining hall with shrub-rating tables that only block movement but not lines of fire.
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Dec 23, 2016 19:40
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Get shafted from D2 to D5 on my DrFE, fully expecting to die. Pick up a staff and a ring and find stairs up. Decide to put them on. Ring of Wizardry and Staff of Fire. Hit 7, Red Draconian. Best shaft ever.
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Dec 23, 2016 19:44
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Picked this back up again to give my self some variation in play between all the session with CoQ. And man, I kinda wish Monstrous DS happened more often; even though I should really just be focusing on mastering the game, I had a particular idea I wanted to try out once I read about Uskayaw (basically an insane notion about a maximum offense unarmed set up that probably would end up working out kinda badly.)
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Dec 23, 2016 20:00
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What are some good general tips for getting a skald going?
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Dec 23, 2016 21:06
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Play High elf.
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Dec 23, 2016 21:36
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tweet my meat posted:What are some good general tips for getting a skald going? Don't worry about being awesome with Charms in the early game, mostly focus on your weapon skills so you can kill dudes without taking a lot of time. After all if they are at range you have a couple turns to cast and hopefully get through high failure rates. Train Spellcasting only if you're needing spell slots, you have enough MP through gaining levels to cast your buffs. Once you're in midgame you're basically free to hybridize however you'd like.
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Dec 23, 2016 21:48
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PleasingFungus posted:Sadly, it's true. The only things HE and Te have in common is air magic skill and a preference for dodging though? Demonspawn and mummies have more similarities. Does every race need innate mutations to avoid getting cut?
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Dec 23, 2016 21:59
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That may be my mistake. I usually focus on getting spectral weapon castable ASAP, but I'll try focusing on weapon skills first and see how that treats me. I can probably still cast my basic buffs pretty consistently without sinking a bunch of xp into them early on. I was playing high elves regularly, but I switched to halfling to prepare for the high elf cut.
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Dec 23, 2016 22:02
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LordSloth posted:If the Orcish Mines spawn with more than one food shop, they have a chance of being replaced with the halfling warrens, a more range oriented variant, with halfling assassins that can shadow step next to you if you stand still for two turns. Their warpers are low level, however, with blink (cool down) and portal projectile on a tomahawk variant or lesser beckoning and shroud on the sword and board variant. There are, unfortunately slinger variants, but fortunately a lot of corridors. The final vault is a bit nasty, opening up into a dining hall with shrub-rating tables that only block movement but not lines of fire.
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Dec 23, 2016 22:57
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tweet my meat posted:That may be my mistake. I usually focus on getting spectral weapon castable ASAP, but I'll try focusing on weapon skills first and see how that treats me.
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Dec 23, 2016 23:25
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Good idea - since the range of playable characters clearly represents both sides of the good/evil divide, there should probably be more 'good' themed branches - elves and angels seem to be about it right now. I think they could have made resist mutation still in if they added a negative to it, like harm draining you or distortion banishing you - make it tied to statis, make it stat drain or deteriorate on hit or something to trade it off.
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Dec 23, 2016 23:27
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Add branches and cut races until every race has a branch
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Dec 23, 2016 23:32
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Goffer posted:Good idea - since the range of playable characters clearly represents both sides of the good/evil divide, there should probably be more 'good' themed branches - elves and angels seem to be about it right now. RIP that one ice wizard deep elf unique's paragraph long flavor text about the corruption of the elven race by demon worshippers.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:00
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Lets actually compare the apts of the two races in question. So right off the bat its pretty clear that tengu are better at traditional combat. They have neutral or positive apts across the board. A tengu is very free in what they choose to use as their melee or missile weapon. High elves don't have bad combat apts if they stick to bows and blades, but have little reason to use anything else other than a lajatang. But where these species really differ is magic. Look at those Tengu apts. Notice how awful they are? Those happen to be the schools used most often by hybrid characters. Tengus really struggle with most forms of support magic. Necromancy is the only major support school they are good with. High elves have a lot more freedom when it comes to magic.The low necromancy apt is their biggest problem, but overcoming that is a lot easier with the high elves stat gains. You don't even have to use necromancy, but pretty much every hybrid character is going to be investing in charms and translocations because the spells there are so useful for them. When it comes to magic Tengu are really good at conjurations because their whole gimmick is that they excel with many forms of combat, both physical and magical. Conjurations isn't that good for a hybrid character though. You want utility more than offense when it comes to magic. The end result of this is that when playing to their strengths, high elves and tengu feel very different. Now they are clearly similar in some ways; it makes sense for tengu to favor air magic over earth, but I'm not sure why high elves do. Those similarities could easily be removed though and the species wouldn't have much in common anymore. They can both be hybrids, but the types of casting they prefer to do are very different. tldr; I am upset about elves being cut in favor of dumb birds with dumb apts
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Dec 24, 2016 00:02
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Internet Kraken posted:Look at those Tengu apts. Notice how awful they are? Those happen to be the schools used most often by hybrid characters. If I had to pick one I would always want necro(or summoning) over charms and translocations. But especially necro. LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Dec 24, 2016 |
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Dec 24, 2016 00:40
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Goffer posted:Good idea - since the range of playable characters clearly represents both sides of the good/evil divide, there should probably be more 'good' themed branches - elves and angels seem to be about it right now. crawl elves aren't good. but more importantly, what's mechanically interesting about 'good'? what does a 'good' monster do? right now the following are 'holy mechanics':
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Dec 24, 2016 00:53
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Smiling Knight posted:RIP that one ice wizard deep elf unique's paragraph long flavor text about the corruption of the elven race by demon worshippers. paragraph, singular?
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Dec 24, 2016 00:54
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IronicDongz posted:I would call necromancy the most common hybrid school, followed by hexes/summoning, then translocations, then charms(which doesn't have many strong spells anymore and usually people just get a few levels alongside another more trained school-eg, a bit of charms alongside more necromancy for regen). Necro has great support spells but the only one basically every character wants is regen which isn't hard to cast no matter how bad your apts. Necro can easily be ignored by tons of characters until extended where you might start investing in it just for its endgame potential. Meanwhile pretty much everyone wants blink to be reliably castable, especially early on when resources are limited. Lesser beckoning is also one of the most useful spells in the game for a melee character, and ranged characters will want portal projectile. Spectral weapon will increase the damage output of any melee character by a ton, and song of slaying is free damage if you don't care about stealth. Charms and translocations are way more useful for the majority of characters than necromancy is. I'd much rather have HE apts than TE apts early on since getting something like blink castable can easily be the difference between life and death. Also how is summoning any good as a support school? The only support spell it has is aura of abujuration. Everything else is minion summoning, which is just another form of offense. You can use it on a hybrid character but not in the same way as those other schools.
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Dec 24, 2016 01:21
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I dunno, from my (limited) experience with stealthy stabbers summons can be as much a support as invisibility, and better than Shroud of Golubria at preserving your health.
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Dec 24, 2016 01:40
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Internet Kraken posted:Also how is summoning any good as a support school? The only support spell it has is aura of abujuration. Everything else is minion summoning, which is just another form of offense. You can use it on a hybrid character but not in the same way as those other schools. every hybrid character should be getting allies from either summoning or necro, if they want to win anyways. this is a really weird definition of "support"/"hybrid" which I don't think anyone but you shares where allies don't count as support for some reason/characters who use allies don't count as hybrids, the best hybrid start is IE and the best spell IE has is summon ice beasts. when someone talks about skilling into melee alongside summoning/necro to fight alongside their allies, that is a hybrid build.
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Dec 24, 2016 01:50
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"Guy who buffs himself" is a pretty different fantasy/D&D archetype than "guy who summons minions to fight for/with him".
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Dec 24, 2016 01:52
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yes, but both are hybrids you can play and win as 'pure' summoner/necro(or summoner/neco+conj), or you can go a bit heavier armor+more melee skill and fight alongside your allies more. this is a hybrid build in any definition that isn't unreasonably narrow, hybrid means "you invest a significant amount in both magic and non-magic to kill things" LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Dec 24, 2016 |
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Dec 24, 2016 01:53
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A three point apt difference for both necromancy and summoning makes the two species distinct regardless of which type of hybrid is better.
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Dec 24, 2016 02:07
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