Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
McDragon
Sep 11, 2007

I'm sending out some Togepi called Happy Easter on Sunday. I hope my awful jokes give at least one person on WT a laugh.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Mierenneuker
Apr 28, 2010


We're all going to experience changes in our life but only the best of us will qualify for front row seats.

McDragon posted:

I'm sending out some Togepi called Happy Easter on Sunday. I hope my awful jokes give at least one person on WT a laugh.

I'm sure people will appreciate it more than my Delibirds holding hard stones. Not everybody is on the nice list :colbert:

oddium
Feb 21, 2006

end of the 4.5 tatami age

why not have them hold charcoal

Mierenneuker
Apr 28, 2010


We're all going to experience changes in our life but only the best of us will qualify for front row seats.

I have one charcoal, I had nearly 40 hard stones.

...which is not as bad as BW2 where I had like hundreds at some point. THANK YOU ANTIQUE SHOP.

Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Dec 23, 2016

leftist heap
Feb 28, 2013

Fun Shoe
People are trading legendaries left right and center for drat castforms and I can't even get my Porygon evolved SMDH.

Not an Owl
Oct 29, 2011
Is it as easy to get overleveled by using EXP. Share as it was in X/Y?

Paul.Power
Feb 7, 2009

The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

Not an Owl posted:

Is it as easy to get overleveled by using EXP. Share as it was in X/Y?
Apparently not quite as bad, because Gen 5's "EXP gained scales with your level" thingo is back.

Blooming Brilliant
Jul 12, 2010

Not an Owl posted:

Is it as easy to get overleveled by using EXP. Share as it was in X/Y?

I had EXP share on, didn't really stop to grind, fully raised my Pokemon's affecting in Refresh, and I was only 2-3 levels above the champion when I beat the game.

Compared to X/Y, where I had a Lv. 100 Blaziken going into the E4.

Nessa
Dec 15, 2008

There's also a level jump once you get to the 4th island. I had been using the exp share on and off and by the time I got there, there were wild Pokemon higher level than my team.

I'd say to turn it on and off as you feel necessary.

How Ingratiating!
Sep 7, 2011

Infinite ammo vs. CYBER PUNCH!!
I'm doing a Wonder Trade giveaway for Christmas: one box of 5/6IV Adamant Mimikyu, in Love Balls, fully EV-trained, already knowing Swords Dance/Shadow Claw. And they all have nicknames. They're the best rejects I've gotten so far trying to breed for a shiny Mimikyu. I just keep getting 6IV babies instead. :(

jarbv
Jul 10, 2004

leftist heap posted:

People are trading legendaries left right and center for drat castforms and I can't even get my Porygon evolved SMDH.

I traded my castform for a porygon 2 :coolfish:

Desperate Character
Apr 13, 2009
So what are the suggested natures for Minior in competitive? Smogon is down so right now I'm just breeding every color for better IVs. Gonna wondertrade a bunch of them out for Christmas

Ruggington
Apr 21, 2012

jolly for physical timid for special

axeil
Feb 14, 2006
hey does anyone have the posts from the guy from smogon who was talking through the tournaments he's been in a few weeks ago? wanted to show my friend some of his replays and his commentary.

edit: nevermind I found it.

here's the quote for anyone who wants it:

tbp posted:

smogon classic

this is my favorite tournament on the site by far, but also easily the least accessible. for any newer players, making playoffs for this tournament is likely a bridge too far and unless you are really talented at picking up new tiers, i would say it would take about 2-3 years of practice to get good enough to qualify for playoffs on classic.

Classic awards a lovely white trophy:

smogon classic came about because people had been hankering for more old generations (at the time, anything gen 3 or before) for a while. as well, with the idea of DPP leaving the Smogon Tour circuit (ST is always the most 3 recent OUs) people were getting worried. DPP metagame btw is a MASSIVE favorite among tournament players, more of the "all time greats" came from the DPP era than any other.

the layout of the tournament is as follows:

1 Cup for Each Gen 1-5 (aka RBY Cup, GSC Cup, ADV Cup, etc.)
you receive 1 point for winning a round in any cup until round 4. wins from round 4 onward are worth 2 points.
the top 12 players on the points chart at the end of all the Cups enter into a playoff where they are seeded and matched vs one another
the higher seed chooses the starting tier, the loser chooses the next
best of 5 in all 5 old gens, winner moves on

the qualification is, in my estimation, definitively the hardest on smogon. the real difference is that the old generations have "tier specialists" that will be straight aces at that tier in particular, but won't play anything else. there are some AMAZING GSC players that know drat well they can't qualify for the finals, so will see GSC cup as their big tournament for the year. a player i mentioned in my previous post, Earthworm, had a run a bit like this in Smogon Classic II - he literally only entered RBY and GSC Cup and was 2 wins out from making playoffs.

in particular, gen 3 and gen 4 are seen as the "height" of competitive mons (this is kind of a wonky viewing of it, but eh). the reason for this is that these metagames are considered the most "balanced" - you have fewer losses immediately at matchup as well as fewer absurd incidents of RNG (like in RBY). as a result ADV Cup and DPP Cup are two really high points for the competitive scene.

i am a bit of a newer player compared to most that made playoffs of classic, but i snuck in to Smogon Classic II playoffs as the winner of a tiebreaker for the last slot. i got like 90% of my qualifying points in RBY Cup (for whatever reason i love RBY and am quite good at it (i think cuz im good at math and it's really just probabilities over and over)) and ADV Cup, ADV being my favorite gen by a long shot. i was considered a pretty big dark horse in ADV cup without having had previous experience with the tier, but i got lucky in that i was tutored by a friend named BKC, a player who had done a lot in that generation of the past few years. unfortunately, i faced another one of his tutees, a guy named Undisputed (who was considered one of the top ADV players at this time) and lost 2-0 in the finals :(

the playoffs for Classic are the most exciting thing in mons for me. it's incredibly neat to see patterns in teambuilding spread across generations. to some extent, all Classic playoff contenders will indeed have people help them in teambuilding for playoffs - its REALLY hard to be good enough to build a solid team in that many generations. for me, i could only handle my own RBY and ADV teams and RBY teams are all the same anyway lol. so i had guys like TDK and PDC, both big names in their own gens and in current gen OU, help me teambuild for BW and DPP respectively. i just stole a GSC team off some italian guy lol.

so as i said before i had to get in through a tiebreaker. unfortunately, i wasn't tied with just one person, but two. i'll give a general rundown on each of us:

teal (me) - kind of a "rising star" at the time, in the past year i had gotten UU Open finals (UU knockout tournament), got semifinals of Grand Slam (one of the major smogon tours) went 8-1 in SPL (tournament of best vs the best, drafted teams, etc) and got ADV Cup finals (as i said biggest ADV tournament)

hellpowna - italian player who was outside the spooky ghosting ring, known for running extremely gimmick/anti-meta stuff in DPP, considered one of the top DPP players of the day. hadn't done a huge amount in tournaments but was always in the running

mael - very well known old gen player, consistent SPL presence, had qualified many times for tournaments but hadn't taken home the prize ever

this was the most absurd series of my life and almost ruined my enjoyment of the game because it was so long lol. i had to sit at the computer for several hours to get these games done, and because it was a 3 way tiebreaker, if we went 1-1-1 (spoilers we did) we had to redo the series. i'll link the replays, this is a fun story for me so sorry for focusing a lot on myself in this overview:

mael vs hellpowna (round 1) - GSC , RBY , DPP , BW

teal6 vs mael (round 1) - ADV , RBY , GSC , DPP , BW
if you watch any of these replays, please watch the BW game from this series vs mael. with him already having beaten hellpowna, if i lose this match he goes to playoffs and my months of work are down the drain. he has a great matchup vs me, and exploits it well in the early game, but i played probably the best game of my life to come back from that point. im particularly proud of turn 39 that game which was probably the best single turn of a pokemon game i've ever played

hellpowna vs teal (round 1) - RBY , ADV , DPP , GSC , BW

so as you can see we went 1-1-1, thankfully for my sanity i clean swept the next two series 3-0 each. i'll link those too if anyone wants them, i mainly did the first round because its a great example of how grueling Classic matchups can be, how much you need to know and prepare for all to have a shot. also they are good examples of high level comp. play if anyone is wondering what top singles looks like, even if i'd call those matchups kinda "tier 2" in terms of name power.

so earlier i had said that everyone gets help in building their teams for classic playoffs. this held true even for me in this tiebreaker. i was pretty nervous going into the matches, even though i had a pretty solid roster of teambuilders:
RBY - myself
GSC - stolen from a good italian player
ADV - myself
DPP - built by PDC, one of the best current DPPers
BW - built by TDK, one of the best current BWers (BW Cup finalist)

so about 15 minutes before my match, i saw that a guy called Ojama was logged on to the tournaments lobby. Ojama is actually the first classic winner, and probably my 2nd favorite player to watch. he is ludicrously good at nearly every single metagame, and while i pride myself at ADV, he's a class ahead of me in this meta. in fact, he's better at 4/5 Classic metas than i am, i think i edge out RBY though. i hadn't ever talked to this guy before, but i was feeling a lot of nerves, so i PMd him and asked if he could change any of my teams. the guy made about 5 changes, and all 5 of those changes were pivotal in the wins i got. i respect him a lot and we became decent friends from there, cool french guy!

so i can talk a little more about Ojamas Classic victory, which is probably the most impressive tournament win of all time. the playoffs in Classic II (my year) were very very good - the playoffs in Classic I were the most unbelievable grouping of players i've ever seen in a tournament.

Classic I playoffs:

tiebreaker
BKC vs pokebasket vs papai noel

BKC is in the top 10 of all time, has made 3 smogon tour playoff finals, won one and is playing his 3rd on december 3rd. utterly top class in ADV, DPP and BW, my mentor in ADV, probably one of the top 5 or so americans in RBY, and passable in GSC

pokebasket is a super consistent spanish player, high level in DPP, very consistent in all other gens

papai noel is a questionable brazilian player (ghost rumors..) but is quite good at nearly all gens. i wouldn't call him terribly elite but he's certainly no slouch, maybe a 7/10 player to BKCs 10/10

well shockingly papai noel wins the playoffs, so lets see the r1 matchups

5. Texas Cloverleaf vs 12. papai noel
6. PDC vs 11. Kevin Garrett
7. McMeghan vs 10. Prankster. [DQ'd]
8. M Dragon vs 9. ZoroDark

texas cloverleaf - probably the worst player in this grouping, still a major old gen force. great at BW, high level in RBY, solid in DPP GSC and ADV.
papai noel - covered before
PDC - utterly top class in DPP, ultra consistent in everything else. holds 2nd place in all time Smogon Tour points, one of the most consistently present players in major playoffs, but has yet to take home the trophy (has won World Cup before)
Kevin Garret - former tournament director, former Smogon Tour winner, amazing at gen 3-5, decent at 1-2
McMeghan - actually lost this round but prankster was caught ghosting in their RBY game by a guy named Marcoasd who is the #1 RBY player for the past few years. McMeghan is widely considered the best player of all time. Former Smogon Tour winner, has made 2 other Smogon Tour finals, has won more tournaments than any other pokemon player on record
Prankster - very very solid Italian player, unfort got hit with the ghosting hammer. still very good, too bad he sured up his RBY weakness by cheating -_-
M Dragon - alongside BKC, McM and Bloo as one of the best. for the record he's at the bottom of elite status in RBY, is debatebly 1/2/3 in GSC (alongside earthworm and conflict), is top 5 in ADV, bottom of elite status in DPP, and is definitively elite in BW. ludicrously good player, has a tendency to force ultra long games where he waits for his opponent to choke.
ZoroDark - younger player who has done extremely well getting his name into a lot of playoffs, similar to me. has started qualifying for a ton of tours but has yet to take home to trophy, one to keep an eye on for the next few years.

r2 matchups, where the top 4 seeds enter the fray:

1. babidi1998 vs 8. M Dragon [BW, ADV, RBY, DPP, GSC]
2. reyscarface vs ]7. McMeghan
3. Ojama vs 11. Kevin Garrett
4. Malekith vs 12. papai noel

babidi1998 - more commonly known as heist (he changed his name to the most absurd thing he could think of), this guy is THE also-ran. i can't count the number of tournament finals he has made and loss. heist is the guy that is on the tip of everyones tongues in the "best of all time" debates but because of his lack of the pixels he gets left out often.
reyscarface - former Smogon Frontier (considered one of the hardest trophies) winner. very very good RBY, passable GSC ADV DPP, very very good BW
Ojama - the kingpin himself. if this guy applies himself, he wins. before winning this classic, he won Smogon Tour as well. strong but not elite in RBY, similar in GSC, one of the best 2-3 players in ADV, one of the best 2-3 players in DPP, one fo the best 2-3 players in BW
Malekith - spanish player who similarly has made a good amount of playoffs but has faield to take it home. strong in gens 4-5, passable in the others.

1. babidi1998 vs 12. papai noel [ADV, DPP, RBY, BW, GSC]
3. Ojama vs 7. McMeghan [BW, DPP, GSC, ADV, RBY]

leaving the games in to show how much a slog these ones were. heist managed to squeak out a win and show he was the dominant player, while ojama vs mcm was the highlight match of the decade. mcm considered the best, ojama always right there (esp after bloo died), these two french players were both very good friends and very intense rivals. ojama picked up the win but just barely, getting some absurd luck in the ADV match.

1. babidi1998 vs 3. Ojama [BW, DPP, GSC, RBY]

another top level series in the finals, Ojama taking it home (feel bad for heist lol another lost finals). the amount of great players to get through really emphasizes superiority when you are the one to win it, this is probably THE trophy win of Smogon history at the moment. its simply absurdly impressive to come out of a qualifying phase that hard and a playoff group that amazing.

Classic II was a very good group as well, not the same heights but definitely a harder than average class. The winner was a player named ShakeItUp/-Tsunami-, who was one of the "always-there" of the tournament scene. Shake played a guy named Tesung in the finals in a really amazing series. Tesung, for the record, is one of my favorite players - the guys a complete enigma, he puts in Waaaay less effort than most and brings meme teams nonstop and still just wins. i narrated the shake vs tesung series and tried to stay impartial but was kinda cheering for shake the entire time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jKpXxMnX70&t=1963s

this was mainly because Tesung is the most "savant" players ive ever seen - at this point he had already won two Smogon Tours (winning 1 is enough to be talked about as an all time great) and to boot one win was vs McMeghan. if Tesung won this game, he'd be the first player ever with three individual trophies (theres like 5-6 with 2? i'd have to think about it a bit) but i wanted Shake to finally take it home

all in all i love that classic weeds out a lot of the drama because only really strong players can typically make the finals (its too hard to assemble a proper ghosting team for these series). the tour is so long and brutal that even making playoffs is seen as a huge achievement, wish i couldve taken it home though tbh.

as a general note, the following are kinda the way the community sees player tiers (i'll use smogon notation to make it easier, this isn't codified or anything):

S - multiple trophy winners or single trophy winners with a lot of playoffs experience and amazing performances
example: McMeghan, Bloo, BKC, Tesung, Ojama, Earthworm, Ciele

A - single trophy winners or people with a lot of playoff appearances
Heist, Soulwind, reyscarface, Alexander, Veteran in Love, Golden Sun, Kevin Garret

B - "contenders" these are the people you expect to win a trophy, are always in the running, but haven't quite made it
myself, PDC, ABR, Omfuga

C and below are mostly the guys who have always been trying, but haven't quite had much of a break getting into playoffs or anything just yet

axeil fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Dec 24, 2016

Ariong
Jun 25, 2012

Get bashed, platonist!

What's the point of Pokemon breeding? What do domestic Pokemon have that wild-caught Pokemon don't?

OneDeadman
Oct 16, 2010

[SUPERBIA]

Ariong posted:

What's the point of Pokemon breeding? What do domestic Pokemon have that wild-caught Pokemon don't?

It's a way to more or less guarantee decent IVs with items and also some moves can be transferred over pokemon lines via breeding to make certain pokemon's move pools better(ie. aqua jet on gosolipod)

Mazerunner
Apr 22, 2010

Good Hunter, what... what is this post?

Ariong posted:

What's the point of Pokemon breeding? What do domestic Pokemon have that wild-caught Pokemon don't?

passing down moves, guaranteeing natures, passing down ivs (genetics basically)

axeil
Feb 14, 2006

Mazerunner posted:

passing down moves, guaranteeing natures, passing down ivs (genetics basically)

Adding in bottle caps so you don't have to do all the breeding crap to get competitive Pokemon is great. Unfortunately they made it rather annoying to get and you still can't change the nature.

All they need to do in Stars is add a way to switch nature and make bottle caps easier to come by and it'll be perfect for more people getting into multiplayer.

oddium
Feb 21, 2006

end of the 4.5 tatami age

breeding rules and bottle caps are dumb

axeil
Feb 14, 2006

oddium posted:

breeding rules and bottle caps are dumb

oh i love breeding too but its nice to have an option for people who don't want to do that. or for pokemon where you can't breed (hello Celesteela).

they also should gift you a 6 IV ditto at the end of the game since you almost need one for breeding to not be utterly aggravating.

Mef989
Feb 6, 2007




Does anyone have a 5 star Rare kitchen? Not sure how you trade them but what I'm reading says that their not available in Moon and have to be obtained from someone playing Sun

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream

axeil posted:

oh i love breeding too but its nice to have an option for people who don't want to do that. or for pokemon where you can't breed (hello Celesteela).

they also should gift you a 6 IV ditto at the end of the game since you almost need one for breeding to not be utterly aggravating.

Except you need to grind out stuff to get the bottle caps and THEN grind your pokemon up to level 100.

Breeding is still way easier once you get your set up going.

less laughter
May 7, 2012

Accelerock & Roll

axeil posted:

All they need to do in Stars is add a way to switch nature

call it reform school

Pakled
Aug 6, 2011

WE ARE SMART
Bottle caps are nice for shinies and legendaries but for any breedable pokemon, it's much faster to get optimal IVs through breeding.

Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

"From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.
Buglord

ZenMasterBullshit posted:

Except you need to grind out stuff to get the bottle caps and THEN grind your pokemon up to level 100.

Breeding is still way easier once you get your set up going.

Grinding your favourite friend to level 100 is both more rewarding and more reasonable than trying to get a legitimate 6IV Ditto

Ruggington
Apr 21, 2012

Improbable Lobster posted:

Grinding your favourite friend to level 100 is both more rewarding and more reasonable than trying to get a legitimate 6IV Ditto

it sucks and getting a 6iv ditto that fell off a truck is easier

Ruggington
Apr 21, 2012

my only level 100 is the buzzwole I've been using to sweep the e4 so i could get dex entries and level up boys I've bred

it is the second level 100 i have ever legitimately obtained and probably the last this gen

Mazerunner
Apr 22, 2010

Good Hunter, what... what is this post?
It's not like you really really really need a 6iv ditto

like obviously that's a huge help and boon for getting started but:

go through your box and do some wonder trades, or nab some rejects from goons looking to give them away. You'll almost certainly have several mons with 31ivs in some stat or another.

Start breeding them where you can with power items. Eventually you'll have multiple pokemon with 3-4 useful perfect ivs across most every egg group.

Bam.

Yes it takes longer and is suckier than just having a perfect japanese shiny ditto or w/e but if you can't get one of those it'll be fine. The hardest part is farming up power items or destiny knot.

Desperate Character
Apr 13, 2009
if you want to breed for shinies having a hacked foreign 6IV ditto is the only reasonable option; you would need to be extremely lucky to get a foreign 6IV pokemon in the egg group you desire from someone else.

Ariong
Jun 25, 2012

Get bashed, platonist!

OneDeadman posted:

It's a way to more or less guarantee decent IVs with items and also some moves can be transferred over pokemon lines via breeding to make certain pokemon's move pools better(ie. aqua jet on gosolipod)

Hmm. Fascinating. That answers my question, and makes perfect sense. However, not everybody is as smart as you and I. Is there any chance you could phrase that more simply in case there's someone reading the thread who has no idea what you're talking about?

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

I haven't looked back from giving up my only Relicanth for a random 6IV Ditto on the GTS. And my friend got one in a Wonder Trade randomly while he was at my house. I might as well make it easier, and get Bottle Caps for my mons from Gen 6 and prior instead.

Immer
Aug 11, 2009

It's what they were born for.
They serve no other purpose in life.
Keep doing what you're doing.

Ariong posted:

Hmm. Fascinating. That answers my question, and makes perfect sense. However, not everybody is as smart as you and I. Is there any chance you could phrase that more simply in case there's someone reading the thread who has no idea what you're talking about?

Parents pass down their stats so you do that a bunch of times to eventually get a pokemon with good stats. You can also get cool moves this way (sometimes only this way). The alternative is taking what you get with caught pokemon.

Mazerunner
Apr 22, 2010

Good Hunter, what... what is this post?

Ariong posted:

Hmm. Fascinating. That answers my question, and makes perfect sense. However, not everybody is as smart as you and I. Is there any chance you could phrase that more simply in case there's someone reading the thread who has no idea what you're talking about?

ok 'IV' or individual value iirc are like a specific pokemon's genetics. It's a value from 0-31 for each of their stats, and corresponds to bonus of that much to that stat at level 100. So a garchomp with 31 attack IV will have 31 higher attack than a garchomp with 0 attack iv. This can generally add up when looking at attack/defenses but the real important one is speed since having even one speed higher means you always go first.

Anyway this is not important at all for the main story, but is pretty important for online battles or maybe the battle facility stuff (battle tree in sun/moon).

The chances of getting a wild pokemon with 31 iv is pretty low- let alone multiples or in useful stats AND with a good nature.

When breeding you can guarantee that nature and some of the parent's IVs will be passed down to the child, so you basically go full eugenics to create ubermenscht.



Also some pokemon can learn moves (egg moves) they usually couldn't by having a parent of a different species that knows the move as the father.

ie. wimpod/golisopod can't normally learn aqua jet. But you can breed a female wimpod with a male surskit that knows aqua jet, and the baby will be a wimpod that knows aqua jet. Golisopod has high attack but low speed, so having a priority physical water move is great for it.

Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

"From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.
Buglord
Do Male pocket monsters pass down pokeballs this gen? Genderless pocket monsters like Dhelmise do when breeding with Ditto.

I finally found an Alchemy Grimer and it's male, I want to know if a beast ball would be worth using.

Pakled
Aug 6, 2011

WE ARE SMART

Improbable Lobster posted:

Do Male pocket monsters pass down pokeballs this gen? Genderless pocket monsters like Dhelmise do when breeding with Ditto

Yes, they can.

Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

"From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.
Buglord

Pakled posted:

Yes, they can.


This is truly the greatest generation

TheKingofSprings
Oct 9, 2012

oddium posted:

breeding rules and bottle caps are dumb

IVs were a mistake

Kurtofan
Feb 16, 2011

hon hon hon
does the pokeball come from the egg

Theta Zero
Dec 22, 2014

I've seen it.

Kurtofan posted:

does the pokeball come from the egg

Just like how babies are born with diapers, Pokemon are born with Pokeballs.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

vOv
Feb 8, 2014

Theta Zero posted:

Just like how babies are born with diapers, Pokemon are born with Pokeballs.

So the first person to figure out how to 'empty' a master ball will get rich because they'll be able to breed infinitely many of them.

TheKingofSprings posted:

IVs were a mistake

The Pokemon series is all about developing good friendships and being close with the Pokemon you battle with, which is why you'll have to basically throw away all the ones you start out with after the postgame because they probably have mediocre IVs/natures at best.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply