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Volkerball posted:It starts the cycle of ostracizing Israel. As was mentioned, you have to start somewhere. Eventually it's going to be these types of resolutions that form the backbone of movements to sanction Israel and put more pressure on them to change their stance towards one that makes meaningful attempts to achieve a two state solution. It's the same process that eventually forced change in South Africa. You'd probably be right in assuming that the US isn't going to lead the charge in that regard, but countries like the UK and France could if there was domestic support for it. The resolution is very significant in that regard. I don't know about France, but the UK isn't anywhere near leading that charge. As of right now the Conservatives are in charge and these fucker absolutely love Israel. Mostly because they hate Muslims. In addition, the Jewish community in the UK has quite a lot of political power and are very, very pro Israel.
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Dec 24, 2016 11:35
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Miftan posted:I don't know about France, but the UK isn't anywhere near leading that charge. As of right now the Conservatives are in charge and these fucker absolutely love Israel. Mostly because they hate Muslims. In addition, the Jewish community in the UK has quite a lot of political power and are very, very pro Israel. On the other hand, they didn't just abstain, they voted in favor of the resolution.
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Dec 24, 2016 12:19
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Volkerball posted:On the other hand, they didn't just abstain, they voted in favor of the resolution. The report I saw on BBC didn't even mention the UK vote. Just reported the US side of things. I think any action that will actually have any effect will not pass, but I take your point that this could be a positive development.
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Dec 24, 2016 13:55
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Miftan posted:In addition, the Jewish community in the UK has quite a lot of political power and are very, very pro Israel. If a politician or celebrity of some sort were to say this publicly, then the headlines would be screaming about how anti-Semitic they are for days. (Not saying you're anti-semitic, just emphasising that this is the current state of the UK)
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Dec 24, 2016 13:59
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Miftan posted:The report I saw on BBC didn't even mention the UK vote. Just reported the US side of things. I think any action that will actually have any effect will not pass, but I take your point that this could be a positive development. There was only one abstention, the USA. Otherwise it was an unanimous vote in favor. The UK being a permanent member of the UNSC, they were among the voters, and since they aren't the USA, it means they voted in favor. Again though, the resolution is largely meaningless. It just says illegal settlements are bad. It shouldn't be controversial.
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Dec 24, 2016 14:15
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Marmaduke! posted:If a politician or celebrity of some sort were to say this publicly, then the headlines would be screaming about how anti-Semitic they are for days. I'm aware. The current state of the UK political scene is pretty bad. I'm definitely anti Israel, but it's pretty hard to be anti semitic if you're a Jewish Israeli.
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Dec 24, 2016 14:40
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Miftan posted:I'm aware. The current state of the UK political scene is pretty bad. I'm definitely anti Israel, but it's pretty hard to be anti semitic if you're a Jewish Israeli. Won't they just call you a "self-hating jew", instead?
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Dec 24, 2016 14:44
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Dommolus Magnus posted:Won't they just call you a "self-hating jew", instead? Yeah, I get that a lot. It's not anti semitic though! Either way this is way off topic. I'm glad the UK is being a bit less terrible with regards to I/P. It doesn't look like there will be any front page consequences either since it's not being reported as the UK voting for it, but as the US not vetoing
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Dec 24, 2016 14:49
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Dommolus Magnus posted:Won't they just call you a "self-hating jew", instead? Yes. Likud has been hacking away at the barrier between the tenets of the Jewish religion and their own party platform in an effort to legitimize their policies by making them "Jewish" policies, for years now. Unfortunately, that means denigrating the Jewishness of their political opponents who are also Jews. Which is a very disgusting tactic, especially when you combine it with how cavalier they are with throwing around claims of anti semitism.
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Dec 24, 2016 14:49
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In a sane society, people would dismiss "I'm more Jewish than you. You're not a real Jew" as idiocy; because who the gently caress cares? I just can't believe all this garbage is news. Israel is being bad and should stop being bad. That's anti Semitic! You can't say that. ... Why aren't you stopping them from saying we're being bad!? This is a war crime on our people!Like, this whole thing is just stupid. Call me when something meaningful happens.
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Dec 24, 2016 17:34
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KillHour posted:But who even cares? What does a resolution like that even do? It's all hot air. It highlights just how reliant Israel is on US support in the face of otherwise near-universal international condemnation, demonstrates that it's politically possible for the US to withhold that support, and lends justification to boycotts and other such measures.
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Dec 24, 2016 18:49
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FlamingLiberal posted:I'm betting that the only reason they didn't is because of Trump Obama personally really doesn't like Bibi. I'm thinking this is just a gently caress you to him to get back at him for loving him over with Cast Lead during the lame duck period 8 years ago. Or the time Bibi went to speech in US congress about how bad Obama was on Israel. Or any of the other times basically. I enjoyed Powers saying that the US abstention was based on the "facts on the ground" in this light as well.
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Dec 24, 2016 23:51
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-38429385 http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/24/politics/lindsey-graham-united-nations/ israel and the republicans are throwing their toys out of the pram
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Dec 25, 2016 00:05
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Oh please do that Israel. Continue to act like a rogue state.
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Dec 25, 2016 00:16
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Goatse edited out
Somebody fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Dec 25, 2016 |
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Dec 25, 2016 00:25
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FlamingLiberal posted:Oh please do that Israel. Continue to act like a rogue state. Already saw someone on Facebook tell Bibi to recall the Japanese, NZ, etc ambassadors as well, and not to be the big man with Senegal.
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Dec 25, 2016 07:54
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USA, please protest the UN by adopting the empty chair policy.
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Dec 25, 2016 11:27
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It's kind of shocking that they don't care about the stability that the UN provides on a world scale. Also, they should consider asking PW Botha how it goes when a disliked country leaves the UN.
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Dec 25, 2016 16:40
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Isn't the condemnation of settlements based on the four previous resolutions already saying they are illegal? Why are pro Israeli figures losing their minds over this particular one other than it being today rather than the 1970s?
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Dec 25, 2016 16:48
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ModernMajorGeneral posted:Why are pro Israeli figures losing their minds over this particular one other than it being today rather than the 1970s? Big bully has to get indignant any time someone tells them they're still being awful.
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Dec 25, 2016 17:03
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The line from some of the republicans is ostensibly that illegal settlements are sort of a problem but there are worse things happening in the world so they should focus on those instead Of course that doesn't really square with their kicking and screaming and demanding that another resolution overriding it be passed but there you go
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Dec 25, 2016 18:44
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Volkerball posted:It starts the cycle of ostracizing Israel... The resolution is very significant in that regard. ModernMajorGeneral posted:Isn't the condemnation of settlements based on the four previous resolutions already saying they are illegal? Why are pro Israeli figures losing their minds over this particular one other than it being today rather than the 1970s? Yardbomb posted:Big bully has to get indignant any time someone tells them they're still being awful.  It can't be both, guys.
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Dec 25, 2016 18:58
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XMNN posted:The line from some of the republicans is ostensibly that illegal settlements are sort of a problem but there are worse things happening in the world so they should focus on those instead I'm seeing a lot of 'WHY ARE THEY CONDEMNING US WHEN THEY'RE NOT CONDEMNING SYRIA', completely ignoring that they did condemn Syria. Multiple times, if I'm not mistaken. Dead Reckoning posted:
It's almost like different people have different opinions?
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Dec 25, 2016 19:00
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ModernMajorGeneral posted:Isn't the condemnation of settlements based on the four previous resolutions already saying they are illegal? Why are pro Israeli figures losing their minds over this particular one other than it being today rather than the 1970s? The Israeli far right has grown in power since the 70s, and international condemnation of Israel has grown in scope. Many figures on the Israeli right feel that Israel should ignore international condemnation completely and do whatever they want; Netanyahu isn't willing to go quite that far, but the guy who bragged about undermining the Oslo Accords can't very well back down in the face of international pressure, and letting it stand without a response is risky.
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Dec 26, 2016 01:52
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Supposedly, there's possibly another resolution before Obama leaves office. What could it contain?
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Dec 26, 2016 02:42
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It's not even text, it's just the UN wagging their finger at Israel for genocide and telling them to go sit in the corner.
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Dec 26, 2016 03:51
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Dead Reckoning posted:
My God, people disagree on this?! What is the world coming to.
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Dec 26, 2016 12:16
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You don't win a propaganda war by ceding ground. I wouldn't be surprised if this entire hissy fit is coordinated with Trump's people, pretend Obama was responsible for some huge guffaw and have Trump march in as the rational adult on the 20th.
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Dec 26, 2016 16:51
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It's for his base. Trump will veto any future action, so I'm leaning towards the resolution meaningless, beyond provoking the right in ways that will probably be counterproductive to supporters of the resolution. Plenty of similar stuff has come up in the past, and I don't see I/P hitting the front burner given Syria, Yemen, etc... and autocrats taking over the west. Sunni states will probably go right back to openly collaborating with Israel in their proxy war with Iran. The resolution itself is problematic in that the entire basis for the peace process has been the notion of land swaps. "All territory captured since 1967 is illegal, therefore please rejoin the process where you can keep the small parts of it you really want but have to give back the rest" is a really odd message, but that's what they're saying. Same for Obama signing a record aid deal. Or let's say they tried to implement this, who actually thinks blue helmets are going to physically ethnically cleanse Mount Scopus.
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Dec 26, 2016 18:15
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That's not what it says though: 
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Dec 26, 2016 18:21
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emanresu tnuocca posted:That's not what it says though: Every right wing news article I've seen about this seems to leave that out and cries about how the resolution doesn't recognize Israel's right to Jerusalem
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Dec 26, 2016 18:51
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I've read that if America recognised that Israel has nukes they'd have to stop sending military aid to them, is that true? If Obama wanted to gently caress with Netanyahu and Trump, could he unilaterally recognise that Israel is a nuclear power or would he have to pass something through the legislature?
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Dec 26, 2016 22:56
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Enjoy posted:I've read that if America recognised that Israel has nukes they'd have to stop sending military aid to them, is that true? Possibly technically yes, but even if they didn't just outright ignore it, they'd just change the rule immediately. They already gave India a free pass, so there's precedent.
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Dec 26, 2016 23:14
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eSports Chaebol posted:Possibly technically yes, but even if they didn't just outright ignore it, they'd just change the rule immediately. They already gave India a free pass, so there's precedent. Are India and Pakistan signatories to the npt? Afaik Israel is not
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Dec 27, 2016 00:11
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rscott posted:Are India and Pakistan signatories to the npt? Afaik Israel is not Israel, India, Pakistan and South Sudan are not signatories (South Sudan does not have nukes and is nowhere near getting them). Additionally, North Korea has withdrawn and is no longer a signatory and also has nukes. That's it.
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Dec 27, 2016 00:19
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https://twitter.com/MannfredNikolai/status/813483703225741316 it's beyond hilarious that Bibi's campaign was the one who ran the ad claiming everyone else was a child.
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Dec 27, 2016 00:50
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lol the whole strategy is to diplomatically ostracise them and they're actually working on it harder than anyone else
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Dec 27, 2016 00:55
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The most appropriate Tweet on this stupidity was 'Israel just BDS'd itself'
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Dec 27, 2016 00:55
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XMNN posted:lol the whole strategy is to diplomatically ostracise them and they're actually working on it harder than anyone else Yeah, bibi is a child and it sounds like he is finally going to turn Israel into a rogue nation. If he goes through with this. Is he and Likud hosed politically? I personaly think trump will kiss bibi boo boos but i think this is the beginning of the end for them. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Dec 27, 2016 |
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Dec 27, 2016 01:22
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Dapper_Swindler posted:Yeah, bibi is a child and it sounds like he is finally going to turn Israel into a rogue nation. If he goes through with this. Is he and Likud hosed politically? I personaly think trump will kiss bibi boo boos but i think this is the beginning of the end for them. That's up to Israeli voters.
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Dec 27, 2016 01:26
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