|
So is AMD going to put two of these dies on one package for their weird rectangular server socket again
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 06:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 02:01 |
|
|
Paul MaudDib posted:In fact, all consumer chips are explicitly Xeons with some of their features fused off. Paul MaudDib posted:But for any consumer chip out there - the Xeon has exactly the same memory capacity. But for any consumer chip out there - the Xeon has exactly the same memory capacity.Kabylake-X is supposed to be dual-channel. [/quote] Ah poo poo yeah looked at a oold leak. All the more recent leaks show you're right here.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 09:57
|
|
|
Paul MaudDib posted:Even VMs and poo poo are going to run out of cores long before they run out of RAM - and if you are really that edge case then you either buy a dual-socket board (gets you up to 256 GB) or you buy the E7 scale-up processors instead of the E3/E5 scale-out chips (which gets you up to 24 TB). Single socket E5 will get you to 1TB ram (some are limited 768). Dual socket 1.5 TB. If you need a terrabyte of ECC ram i don't think the relatively small premium for a E5 xeon and a C chipset is the thing holding you back. 64 GB DDR4 modules are not cheap and the 128GB modules to actually use that capacity are not for sale yet. NihilismNow fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Dec 26, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 13:16
|
|
|
If you need 1TB+ ECC RAM, aren't you doing something professionally that justifies the cost of full-ham server hardware that pushes the discussion out of the scope of desktop / SOHO computing?
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 17:48
|
|
|
If you're using a terabyte of RAM, you're probably not the one paying for it anyway
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 18:15
|
|
|
To my thinking this all hinges on having a mature well performing platform with all the stuff people expect. USB 3, m.2, etc AMD has always been 2nd class when it comes to platform performance and quality assurance.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 19:47
|
|
|
I need two tb of rams please.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
penus penus penus posted:I need two tb of rams please. http://www.downloadmoreram.com/ Or for Weebs, http://www.downloadmorerem.com/
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 20:47
|
|
|
I currently have over 2000 chrome tabs open.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2016 00:44
|
|
|
PC LOAD LETTER posted:If the dies are physically smaller than this isn't correct. Yes binning is a thing I know that and they obviously use the same core and share all kinds of tech but real differences do exist. The die sizes are the same. i3s, i5s, and i7s are actually literally Xeon dies (the HEDT chips are the bigger E5 version of the Xeon). It's the same physical chip, this is how binning works. The server market gets the good chips (low leakage/runs at low voltage i.e. low power). The consumer market gets the lovely chips: defective cores becomes i3 (there are no Xeon 2C4Ts - this is why i3s now support ECC RAM), i5s and Pentiums are pretty much marketing bins (the chances of hyperthreading being the only thing wrong with the chip is basically zero), everything else is an i7. This doesn't work if there is a "special" die for consumers, then you have to start binning multiple dies and now you have a certain bin of extra-extra lovely chips. This actually works out really well for the consumer: your i3 that you buy for $110 or the i5 that you buy for $200 is heavily subsidized by the Xeon-bin chips that sell for $800. You are literally buying the poo poo-tier reject chips, that's why they're so cheap. Someone else is paying big bucks for the A-grade chip and that subsidizes the development cost of the chip and those absurd chipzilla profit margins. (note: AMD does the same thing, this is the standard binning strategy now) quote:I think you're misunderstanding me. My point was if they wanted to Intel could do a non-Xeon chip with higher RAM capacity but there were also technical reasons why such a part would have to cost more too. Again, just to underscore this point: the Xeon chips are literally the same chips as the consumer chips, there is no "special Xeon chip" that consumers don't have access to. Any consumer chip is literally a Xeon with features fused out. In combination with the above point: if Intel wanted to increase the memory capacity, why wouldn't they push that feature up to the Xeon lineup? Without the subsidy that the Xeon line provides to the consumer chips, that would mean these chips would be like $700-800 for an i7 equivalent, so nobody would buy it, and the enterprise customers would get mad that Intel has a cool new chip and is holding out on them. And if you can figure out a use for more than 128 GB in a workstation... the enterprise users are definitely screaming for that capability. ItBurns posted:I currently have over 2000 chrome tabs open. The best use for 32 GB+ of RAM. Hail satan. 
Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Dec 27, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2016 01:06
|
|
|
Paul MaudDib posted:The die sizes are the same. i3s, i5s, and i7s are actually literally Xeon dies (the HEDT chips are the bigger E5 version of the Xeon). It's the same physical chip, this is how binning works. Has anybody looked at i3 dies? I thought that i3s were really leaky mobile i5/i7s.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2016 02:06
|
|
|
penus penus penus posted:I need two tb of rams please.  
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2016 03:58
|
|
|
What was that technology consulting or computer company commercial where it showed a bunch of WASPy old dudes and a conference table trying to sound with the times and spouting buzzwords they misunderstood? I think it ended with one saying "Ram all the gigabytes!" before the voiceover said they didn't know what they were talking about (and I guess to hire the company in question who could understand your business' tech needs).
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2016 08:34
|
|
|
SpelledBackwards posted:What was that technology consulting or computer company commercial where it showed a bunch of WASPy old dudes and a conference table trying to sound with the times and spouting buzzwords they misunderstood? I think it ended with one saying "Ram all the gigabytes!" before the voiceover said they didn't know what they were talking about (and I guess to hire the company in question who could understand your business' tech needs). Sounds like a CDW commercial.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2016 08:39
|
|
|
Paul MaudDib posted:The die sizes are the same. i3s, i5s, and i7s are actually literally Xeon dies (the HEDT chips are the bigger E5 version of the Xeon). It's the same physical chip, this is how binning works..... Are we saying that the L3 cache is the same, too? Intel just nerf it down on i5's and i3's? I want an i3 with 8MB cache!
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2016 08:44
|
|
|
SpelledBackwards posted:What was that technology consulting or computer company commercial where it showed a bunch of WASPy old dudes and a conference table trying to sound with the times and spouting buzzwords they misunderstood? I think it ended with one saying "Ram all the gigabytes!" before the voiceover said they didn't know what they were talking about (and I guess to hire the company in question who could understand your business' tech needs). Reminds me of https://youtu.be/fX1DrZ75GxA
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2016 08:54
|
|
|
apropos man posted:Are we saying that the L3 cache is the same, too? Intel just nerf it down on i5's and i3's?
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2016 17:56
|
|
|
Paul MaudDib posted:The die sizes are the same. Paul MaudDib posted:(note: AMD does the same thing, this is the standard binning strategy now) Paul MaudDib posted:In combination with the above point: if Intel wanted to increase the memory capacity, why wouldn't they push that feature up to the Xeon lineup? Paul MaudDib posted:Without the subsidy that the Xeon line provides to the consumer chips, Also realistically that won't happen because Intel much prefers their current profit margins and will continue to milk the market as they have since Sandy Bridge was released until AMD can offer some sort of decent competition. Yes I understand that it makes perfect sense from Intel's perspective to do this, but that doesn't mean I like it. PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Dec 27, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2016 18:08
|
|
|
Of note, on most systems, you have a "hard" CPU limit of how much RAM it can use. (Both CPU and then Platfrom limits depending on your board maker and slot numbers (To hell with X79/X99 4 slot boards). But most CPU's and boards allow you to adjust RAM/CPU Memory Speeds and Voltages. Usually you don't need to do too much drastic stuff unless you are running some crazy gamer OC memory, but even my ancient X79 3930K runs 8 slots of 2133 DDR3 all day OC'ed to 4.6Ghz. If a Consumer 2600K (Or any CPU really that supports X# slots and X#Gb) with all the slots occupied, then you really should look into the voltages and other settings and see what might be the hold up. (Also bios updates as supporting different ram configs changes a lot during a boards lifetime). I got 16G initially with this setup, but when there was a sale on the same memory I picked up another 16G because finding that matching kit a year or two down the line from then would become a major crapshoot. And though I haven't needed it much then. (No SSD Swap file is nice with 16+G) I have recently run into not having enough when working on larger Adobe Premiere renders so no RAM GB number is safe as time ticks on and everything just gets bigger and bigger.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 00:44
|
|
|
My swapfile autoconfigured itself to 4.8GB. On a 32GB machine. I don't think there's anything to sweat about keeping it. What would be interesting is some knowledge on how Windows handles memory. On Linux I know that it'll do transparent hugepages and prevents the page table from blowing up when running a lot of RAM. I have no idea what exactly Windows does. Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Dec 28, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 01:29
|
|
|
It's 2017 my god do we really have to still think about the paging file? Why?
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 01:47
|
|
|
You don't really. Just leave windows settings alone and don't think about it. There!
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 02:47
|
|
|
Truga posted:I'd imagine a 4c8t amd to cost around 200 bux give or take. Make it close to 300 and people will just buy an i7 Even if I'm still using my old OC 2500K, Zen will need to be the equivalent of a HW/SKL i5-K for ~$100 and the AM4 mobo for ~$60 to make me somewhat interested.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 11:56
|
|
|
PC LOAD LETTER posted:I actually can't find a good source comparing current Xeon's and consumer grade products die sizes so I'm not sure on this. My understanding was that consumer desktop i3/5/7s were high leakage mobile parts, but I guess they could be high leakage Xeons, too. The only figure I can find for all three is quad core Ivy Bridge at 160mm² for mobile, desktop, and Xeon, which would suggest that they are all the same die.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 12:52
|
|
|
Theris posted:My understanding was that consumer desktop i3/5/7s were high leakage mobile parts, but I guess they could be high leakage Xeons, too. The only figure I can find for all three is quad core Ivy Bridge at 160mm² for mobile, desktop, and Xeon, which would suggest that they are all the same die. They are all the same die, just differing by bin quality and amount of disabled functionality.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 13:01
|
|
|
Jago posted:You don't really. Just leave windows settings alone and don't think about it. There! This is the correct answer. Don't turn off the pagefile. Microsoft knows SSD's exist.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 14:29
|
|
|
NihilismNow posted:This is the correct answer. Don't turn off the pagefile. Microsoft knows SSD's exist. Coulda fooled me! When Microsoft continues to do dumb-rear end dumb lovely dumb poo poo like change your default printer away from your properly-configured printer to "send to OneNote" when you install Office, (an actual thing that just happened when I reimaged a machine) I have zero confidence in Microsoft's actual competence as a whole. SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Dec 28, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 15:02
|
|
|
NihilismNow posted:This is the correct answer. Don't turn off the pagefile. Microsoft knows SSD's exist. Windows wants a page file, even if you can fit everything into RAM without issue you want one, things are faster because they expect it. You will also run into games that will complain about no page file and refuse to start.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 15:16
|
|
|
I put my pagefile on a spinning platter drive. I have 32 gigs of ram, and I never heard the said drive work, unless it's explicitly me doing something with it or explicitly doing something dumb with my pc. Yes, I've manged to run out of 32 gigs of ram without even running my VMs before, I'm the dumb person.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 15:23
|
|
|
Truga posted:I put my pagefile on a spinning platter drive. Please don't be doing the stupid. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 15:45
|
|
|
SwissArmyDruid posted:Coulda fooled me! When Microsoft continues to do dumb-rear end dumb lovely dumb poo poo like change your default printer away from your properly-configured printer to "send to OneNote" when you install Office, (an actual thing that just happened when I reimaged a machine) I have zero confidence in Microsoft's actual competence as a whole. I'm fairly certain you can turn that off with ODT. Besides is it such a big deal to right click on a printer and make it your default? Microsoft is pushing onenote and onedrive aggressively, it has nothing to do with competence. It's not a accident.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 15:47
|
|
|
SwissArmyDruid posted:Coulda fooled me! When Microsoft continues to do dumb-rear end dumb lovely dumb poo poo like change your default printer away from your properly-configured printer to "send to OneNote" when you install Office, (an actual thing that just happened when I reimaged a machine) I have zero confidence in Microsoft's actual competence as a whole. i can't believe how upset you are about having to spend 2 seconds changing the default printer one time, after installing a major printing application Setset fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Dec 28, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 16:10
|
|
|
It is now presently 7:15 AM. I have not slept in a little over 30 hours doing data recovery, reimaging, and restaging applications. I admit it is a small thing, but it is the last bleeping thing I need right now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 16:16
|
|
|
Stanley Pain posted:Please don't be doing the stupid. I'm a dirty cheapo and bought a tiny ssd to put windows and the 3 games I have installed on it, there's no place for swap lol
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 17:10
|
|
|
SwissArmyDruid posted:It is now presently 7:15 AM. I have not slept in a little over 30 hours doing data recovery, reimaging, and restaging applications. I admit it is a small thing, but it is the last bleeping thing I need right now. I thought my printer was broken when that happened. It is a small thing in a sea of other annoying small Win10 things. Go to sleep.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 17:27
|
|
|
Truga posted:I'm a dirty cheapo and bought a tiny ssd to put windows and the 3 games I have installed on it, there's no place for swap lol Get another SSD 
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 17:57
|
|
|
Truga posted:I'm a dirty cheapo and bought a tiny ssd to put windows and the 3 games I have installed on it, there's no place for swap lol Buy once cry once. GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:I thought my printer was broken when that happened. It is a small thing in a sea of other annoying small Win10 things. I have like, five more things to do, and then after lunch I'm checking out until next year.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 19:21
|
|
|
Lube banjo posted:i can't believe how upset you are about having to spend 2 seconds changing the default printer one time, after installing a major printing application It would be no big deal until you need to do this 1000x because you run a support shop.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 20:44
|
|
|
redeyes posted:run a support shop Hahahah no thank youuuuuuuuu
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 21:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 02:01 |
|
|
redeyes posted:It would be no big deal until you need to do this 1000x because you run a support shop. If only there were tools to standardize settings, software, and computers!
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 04:07
|
|
