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al-azad posted:Have you played Concordia? It's a neat spin on the concept of "deck building" where your entire deck is your hand and at any time you can retrieve your discard. There are cards that let your opponents play off the top card in your discard and generally whenever someone benefits then everyone else does as well so some strategy comes from waiting out your opponents to play the card you want to copy while also waiting out your discard retrieval so you can sneak in on other people's territory. When I said pseudo-deckbuilder trust me I meant very loosely. Nothing really like Dominion, probably choose my words poorly because I basically just meant that you'd be able to have a 'reserve' of cards that grows longer as the game goes on and helps represent what you've been investing in. For example, playing lots of diplomatic cards gives cards that enable you to motivate minor allies better. Lots of warfare gives you some cards to represent veteran armies and seasoned commanders. Investments in technology or overseas trade pays off in later turns. Stuff like that. But otherwise basically just kind of keeping a 'base' deck of random cards to represent the vagaries of fate that all players draw from - stuff such as earthquakes, religious movements, or sub-commanders going rogue and starting a war against your nearest neighbor.
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Dec 23, 2016 01:18
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Tekopo posted:CNA isn't a tactical game though. Tactical gamers are either: diehard ASLers (read freaks) or fans of Combat Commander/BoB/Company of Heroes etc. CNA is an operational level game, which is still different from strategical level games like T&T et al. I mean ASL is objectively the best tactical game so there's not even an argument to be had...
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Dec 23, 2016 02:08
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cenotaph posted:Very nearly every person participating in wargames discussion on BGG is completely insufferable. The amount of squabbling and back-biting out there is incredible. SA is such a nice respite from that. Everyone here is pretty cool with the wide variety of games out there and no one is going to give you poo poo over liking whatever game it is you like. In fact, people here are actually very supportive! Facebook isn't half bad either, but the convo isn't very deep. [triggered]
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Dec 23, 2016 07:25
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COOL CORN posted:I mean ASL is objectively the best tactical game so there's not even an argument to be had...
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Dec 23, 2016 10:50
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Tekopo posted:Pffft, everyone knows that the true gold standard of tactical games is Fields of Fire. This, but unironically. As an unrelated aside, I hate my life.
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Dec 23, 2016 12:03
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cut phone cord into pieces this is my last resort suffocation no CPs
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Dec 23, 2016 12:04
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Tekopo posted:Pffft, everyone knows that the true gold standard of tactical games is Fields of Fire. You know what I agree with this It's a Christmas miracle
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Dec 23, 2016 14:40
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al-azad posted:I swear when I win the lottery I'll start a company that makes wargames for all the forgotten conflicts. For modern games I imagine it's because all of the wars China has fought in since the 19th century that weren't the Second Sino-Japanese War were wars where China lost for a number of reasons that can't be demonstrated well in a game or in the case of the Sino-Vietnamese War, a war where China backed out before their own incompetence led to them essentially being defeated by Vietnam's militia forces. You could probably do a COIN game based on the Chinese Civil War although the second half, 1946-1949, was pretty much lost due to political reasons that can't be demonstrated well in a game and don't make tactical sense outside of the context of Nationalist politics. Modern Chinese games also fall in the shadow of not falling into the samurai weaboo demo and not having the wehraboo or USA USA USA WWII war game demos. At least there's Next War: Taiwan, which is decent and not hard to come by. I would love a Romance of the Three Kingdoms game or a game centered around the Japanese invasions of Korea in the 16th century.
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Dec 23, 2016 14:58
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:You could probably do a COIN game based on the Chinese Civil War although the second half, 1946-1949, was pretty much lost due to political reasons that can't be demonstrated well in a game and don't make tactical sense outside of the context of Nationalist politics. This is already happening. Mark Herman or Brian Train has a private prototype kicking around, but is currently working on other projects.
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Dec 23, 2016 15:38
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:For modern games I imagine it's because all of the wars China has fought in since the 19th century that weren't the Second Sino-Japanese War were wars where China lost for a number of reasons that can't be demonstrated well in a game or in the case of the Sino-Vietnamese War, a war where China backed out before their own incompetence led to them essentially being defeated by Vietnam's militia forces. You could probably do a COIN game based on the Chinese Civil War although the second half, 1946-1949, was pretty much lost due to political reasons that can't be demonstrated well in a game and don't make tactical sense outside of the context of Nationalist politics. Yeah, me too, but the entire Era of 184 to 280 is massive and the game would be chrome-tastic to oblivion. I mean, do you start at the Yellow Turbans? Before that to see their rise? With the general chaos after the fall of the alliance against Dong Zhuo? After the battle of ChiBi, once the three kingdoms have been firmly established? At their waning, once Sima Yi took over? Each of those moments in time serves not only perfectly well for a game in its own right, but also for a massive amount of special cases, units and complexities of war, politics and the underlying legalist/confucianist war philosophy. I´m not sure it can be done justice. And if we did, it would be an imperfect simulation. Like World in Flames. Which is bad. So yes, it would be bad, no?
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Dec 23, 2016 16:20
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COOL CORN posted:Having lived in Kazan I would love any wargame set there. I'm just happy when it actually shows up on a large-scale game map.  Kazan always interested me as one of those crossroads/"exotic" cities. Would love to visit it.Content: Brian Train has a Battle for China game that has gotten the Deluxe treatment and additional releases (2009) for those interested. It's a smooth playing grand strategy game. Another interesting one is Storm Over Taierzhuang from Against the Odds. It uses the "Storm Over..." system of area movement if you're familiar with that.
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Dec 23, 2016 16:28
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Red Dragon Blue Dragon is an ATO magazine game of commies vs nationalists. No idea how it plays, but it's at least coverage.
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Dec 23, 2016 16:45
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Full disclosure, I've since sold on Battle for China as I'm not that into strategic level stuff. Taierzhuang I've held onto though as it's just so different. Also I've got a thing for area games  A friend has the monster game War of the Suns. If you're into games that are more of a lifestyle choice this might be the one for you. Like, damb.
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Dec 23, 2016 17:03
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Played through the tutorial of Comancheria today. Took about 4 hours, overall it went really well for an introductory experience. There are only ~150 counters, a little less than 2 sheets. Nice distinctive colors on everything. The intro takes you through half a dozen rounds as it gradually introduces more mechanics. I definitely recommend it for newcomers. The rules says an average play through of a historical period is 1-2 hours. And the game is broken into 4 periods
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Dec 24, 2016 04:46
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Does Grand Tactical Series still count as tactical scale wargaming? Where Eagles Dare is company and platoon-sized unit counters, but you're still using line-of-sight and op-fire on that large a scale. This is really just a shameless segue into that I have four fold-out tables worth of space and am going to do a stupid:  Where Eages Dare, campaign game. Let's do this  I'll post a picture when I have all the counters set up. Sad part of course is that I don't have the sister game, Devil's Cauldron,which looks to add another 1/3 of the current footprint....
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Dec 24, 2016 13:35
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hold on to your butts for some cutting edge wargame humor i haven't laughed this hard since i last saw "case blue" posted on bgg
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Dec 24, 2016 14:53
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Trynant posted:Does Grand Tactical Series still count as tactical scale wargaming? Where Eagles Dare is company and platoon-sized unit counters, but you're still using line-of-sight and op-fire on that large a scale. TDC-WED or GTFO m8.
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Dec 24, 2016 16:03
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tomdidiot posted:TDC-WED or GTFO m8. I'm waiting for the TDC reprint 
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Dec 24, 2016 17:23
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Trynant posted:I'm waiting for the TDC reprint wargaming.txt
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Dec 24, 2016 18:53
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The new reprint of No Retreat Russia is waiting for me at the post office, legit had forgotten I'd even put a P500 order for it so this was a nice Christmas surprise!
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Dec 25, 2016 11:23
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It's nice. I set it up and tinkered with the rules yesterday. It's impressive how nice GMT can make a game.
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Dec 25, 2016 13:47
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My in-laws got me Elusive Victory for Christmas  I am now very worried i have bitten off more than I can chew 
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Dec 25, 2016 22:12
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MikeCrotch posted:My in-laws got me Elusive Victory for Christmas Beware! There are multiple typos in the intro scenario. Pay attention to the rules to avoid confusion
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Dec 25, 2016 22:17
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Oh no I read the description to A World at War and now I'm wringing my hands at a potential $150 purchase.
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Dec 26, 2016 04:03
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al-azad posted:Oh no I read the description to A World at War and now I'm wringing my hands at a potential $150 purchase. It's like super-duper advanced third Reich plus the Pacific fronts, right? It looks really freaking awesome. Luckily I know it's too much for me to handle or I'd be wringing my hands too.
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Dec 26, 2016 04:53
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WaW doesn't bother one iota to make the counters have anything resembling a cohesive color scheme, the rules are 200 pages of atrocious mismanagement, and generally you'd be better looking into World in Flames or Axis Empires: Totaler Krieg + Dai Senso (even if the Dai Senso is not a great game by itself).
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Dec 26, 2016 12:18
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Unconditional Surrender is the best of that type of game.
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Dec 26, 2016 13:09
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Trying to resist the temptation to get Wing Leader until Feb.
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Dec 26, 2016 13:25
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A recommendation of WiF over WaW is pretty telling. I think the only grand strats I like are T&T, USE and TK.
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Dec 26, 2016 14:07
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Trynant posted:WaW doesn't bother one iota to make the counters have anything resembling a cohesive color scheme, the rules are 200 pages of atrocious mismanagement, and generally you'd be better looking into World in Flames or Axis Empires: Totaler Krieg + Dai Senso (even if the Dai Senso is not a great game by itself). Totaler Krieg will be sitting on my shelf unplayed for a while longer now that I got Paths of Glory and Comancheria. And they'll both have to wait another agonizingly long week while we visit relatives.
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Dec 26, 2016 14:16
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Anything that looks like Hearts of Iron is enough to get my attention. If your game has all the major fronts, air land sea, supply, construction, and politics I'm going to stop and gawk at it.
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Dec 26, 2016 16:51
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Dai Senso's weakness really is that TK's air/naval system is just functional and while Japan is actually fairly interesting to play, the Allies are really not(in DS, anyway). The Japanese cards are the most open-ended of any of the powers. In terms of choice, i'd probably say: Japan USSR(West) Germany Allies(West) Allies(East) USSR(East) You could probably flip USSR and Germany in terms of functional choice though because the political system gives Germany more choices than the cards suggest while the Soviets generally have to rely on the dice if they go with collective security. Panzeh fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Dec 26, 2016 |
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Dec 26, 2016 16:53
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Absolute Victory looks really nice too. Compass Games will be shipping it at the end of January.
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Dec 26, 2016 19:30
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WAR DOGS OF SOCHI posted:Absolute Victory looks really nice too. Compass Games will be shipping it at the end of January. My initial reading has it as a bloated mess but i'd have to give it a try to be sure.
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Dec 26, 2016 19:49
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tomdidiot posted:TDC-WED or GTFO m8. Update on my Where Eagles Dare shenanigans: I'm really wondering if I should just hold off and look for an affordable copy of The Devil's Cauldron (and approximately two more folding tables). The game is so massive that it really does feel like it's taunting me with that extra mile of game extension. That and I never did do a full run of It Never Snows.... As far as play; I'm going through the earlier scenarios and am suspecting the meat of the game is going to be in managing the chit pull system (each turn in Grand Tactical Series is comprised of a bunch of impulses for each player, order based on chit draws). There's some interesting parts like how there are three types of activations (direct command, divisional, and formation) that have different limits on actions units can perform and how much command points you can end up spending. It's also kind of interesting to see line-of-sight rules in a game of this scale, which is only a little bit larger than something like Fighting Formations. The rules aren't too hard or non-standard outside its chit-pulling, but there are some special game rules that feel less like adding chrome and more like adding spoilers and a boombox. The club route rules for the XXX corps are especially given some love. But really, everything about Where Eagles Dare screams "deluxe wargame." The maps are beautiful, the game specific rulebook is in full color and its historical notes are accompanied by photos of the areas WED took place, the counters are large 5/8" quality cut with real photos of generals if available and historically accurate formation symbols for the Germans instead of their NATO counterparts (debatably approaching "Wehrmacht love" territory...), and the sideboards have actual graphics rather than the "function over form" holding-box approach of something like The Gamers' titles. I suspect wargamers play this for the same "go big" reasons people play Twilight Imperium. If anything this is the reason I want to attach The Devil's Cauldron to this whole monster, moreso than I would for Case Blue to Guderian's Blitzkrieg. Still, you're looking at around 4.5' x 11.5' of foot print for Where Eagles Dare, add another 5 or 6 feet to the length for The Devil's Cauldron. It might actually be more infeasible to lay the paired games out than Case Blue + GBII.
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Dec 26, 2016 22:01
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Trynant posted:Update on my Where Eagles Dare shenanigans: I'm really wondering if I should just hold off and look for an affordable copy of The Devil's Cauldron (and approximately two more folding tables). The game is so massive that it really does feel like it's taunting me with that extra mile of game extension. That and I never did do a full run of It Never Snows.... There's a copy of TDC on BGG for $222
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Dec 26, 2016 22:15
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tomdidiot posted:There's a copy of TDC on BGG for $222 Don't I know it. EDIT: I'm probably going to jump on the pre-order for the reprint just because by the time that actually is out I'll have the loving table space to play...maybe.
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Dec 26, 2016 22:28
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What do you guys recommend for newcomers to squad level? Combat Commander or *gulp* ASL? Looking to get the most out of one box so it would be either CC: Europe or Beyond Valor.
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Dec 27, 2016 13:33
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Band of Brothers: Ghost Panzer 
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Dec 27, 2016 14:11
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al-azad posted:What do you guys recommend for newcomers to squad level? Combat Commander or *gulp* ASL? Looking to get the most out of one box so it would be either CC: Europe or Beyond Valor. Combat Commander is where I started and I certainly recommend it. Band of Brothers: Ghost Panzer is alright, Conflict of Heroes is also a good choice. ASL Starter Kit 1 (2 and 3 are much better purchases AFTER the first) is actually an okay starting point as well, and you'd be surprised how much you can get out of that box (it's also like $30 and that's pretty good value).
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Dec 27, 2016 15:47
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