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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Your friend's a huge idiot. The toonami thread really didn't like ibo for similar reasons.
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Dec 27, 2016 03:44
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Iok Kujan; Such a failure of a character that his Reginlaze doesn't even warrant a regular HG release, just a P-Bandai one.
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Dec 27, 2016 04:04
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Iok Kujan; Such a failure of a character that his Reginlaze doesn't even warrant a regular HG release, just a P-Bandai one. Their thought was that to be accurate you have to make it look beat to hell, who wants to do that with an HG or MG kit?
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Dec 27, 2016 04:48
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Monaghan posted:The toonami thread really didn't like ibo for similar reasons. I hope this wasn't supposed to be a persuasive argument.
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Dec 27, 2016 06:11
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genericnick posted:Though if you didn't like the first season then the second probably won't do it for you either I liked the first season,up until the Brewers,where I tapped out until Edmonton and the giant anticlimax at the end really annoyed me. My friend basically told me that S2 was more of the same.
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Dec 27, 2016 06:18
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The largest and most threatening "enemies" in the show are the ongoing power struggles between and within the various organizations, which does not necessarily equate to mobile suit combat. And things are definitely coming to a head within them, which may blow with nasty results soon. For direct mobile suit combat, there is something of a point there. Just like Einborg before it, Hashmal was built up as a monstrous, overwhelming threat - and then failed to kill a single named individual despite being around a plethora of minor named characters. Sure, Mika became even more disabled, but - again like Einborg - it had been engaged with no loss multiple times before he even got there. Ride in particular should have probably loving died instead of being saved in the same goddamn way two episodes running. This isn't really an argument that characters always have to die to establish the new threat's legitimacy, but if you want to narratively build up that something earned its reputation as a horrifying weapon of calamity, it needs to do more than just blow up a loving farm and kill a (very) few nameless mooks. Either off a minor named character(s) of the multiple engaging it for a decent bit, or actually have it reach and partially destroy Chryse before getting heavily engaged and distracted.
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Dec 27, 2016 07:25
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I wouldn't call the battle of Edmonton an anticlimax. Also Ein beat 3/5 Tekkadan MS pilots in like 5 seconds and brought Mika to the breaking point. But I guess there was no threatening enemies OR a climax so what do I know.
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Dec 27, 2016 07:36
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Belzac posted:I wouldn't call the battle of Edmonton an anticlimax. Also Ein beat 3/5 Tekkadan MS pilots in like 5 seconds and brought Mika to the breaking point. But I guess there was no threatening enemies OR a climax so what do I know. I think the problem with Edmonton is that they blinked. Iron Blooded Orphans has always been slow to kill off Tekkadan characters, and mostly that works. Living characters can do a lot more than dead ones, and there was enough incidental non-lead death so the grit stuck around. But in Edmonton, they almost killed characters, and it was pretty much a magician letting the wires show. It reduces tension for the heroes along one axis since it's much harder to believe that anyone's going to get offed with a name and backstory, and that's going to stick around until someone like Eugene or Akihiro carks it. Which is doubly a shame, because if it hadn't been for the fakeout, I'd say the show would paced consequences fairly well this season. The Mobile Armor left Mikazuki pretty much helpless outside the cockpit, the war with no name killed one of the two leads for the arc (who'd been around since the middle of season 1, even if he was background), and lots of collateral is pretty fair damage. Characters surviving the MA fight would be a relief rather than feeling rote. But they made a mistake, and now it's a bit of a weak spot for the series. How bad it is depends how the last arc goes, I suppose. If it's a bloodbath and Lafter and Shino have compelling and essential roles in the last act, then it's going to be easy to ignore in looking back. But if it's more pulled punches for no strong narrative benefit, it's going to be a real problem with the show as a whole.
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Dec 27, 2016 10:05
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chiasaur11 posted:I think the problem with Edmonton is that they blinked. It probably wasn't so much the wires showing as someone ducking their head in the writer's room near the end of working on season one and telling them "oh, hey, you're getting a second season".
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Dec 27, 2016 10:14
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They're at least starting to turn that issue with Mika into a strength. His whole thing is that he's a barely-literate child with a single, supreme gift - the problem is that the gift is for killing people, and he (a) recognises that this is bad on some level, and (b) sincerely believes that war will come to an end soon, because someone he trusts and respects is trying to make it happen. He doesn't believe that there's a place for him in Kudelia's world, so he's panicking and forcing the issue, stripping away all his other options and forcing his friends to use him as a literal killing machine because he thinks that's all he's good for. In other words, there's dramatic tension because he's invincible - combat is the single most unhealthy activity he can engage in, and is pulling him away from his friends and loved ones to become a simple monster, but he's so undeniably good at it that it becomes a source of considerable temptation for him and everyone else. This even applies to the broader context - Tekkadan aren't fighting a righteous war and aren't all as invincible as their champion, but it's easy to believe otherwise when they have Mikazuki on their side. He's one of the two big sources of the false confidence that's put themselves and the solar system at risk from McGillis.
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Dec 27, 2016 11:15
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Were we watching different shows or something as IBO did an excellent job of highlighting just how terrifying mobile armors were. Three of the more skilled pilots went up against the drat thing and lasted all of ten seconds and the only reason why they didn't die was that they were skilled enough to hide away from the thing once Barbotos entered the game. Mikazuki and Barbatos managed to defeat it, but only by pushing the Gundam so hard that it claimed at the very least his right leg and even Barbatos was reduced to little more then a skeleton by the end of the fight and this is when the hoard of little bug units were barely contained by the rest of Tekkaden. In terms of aftermath, the person who is most likely going to be the final villain of the show basically got a hard on from the fight and determined that the only way to achieve his goals was the use of overwhelming and brutal power. Even those who are not obvious villains were perturbed by what they saw for as McGilles's second said, he was disgusted watching Barbatos fight as it fought in such a way that showed no concern whatsoever of actually surviving. This all leads to the true legacy of that battle. Mikazuki, who at the start of the show had a clear goal of eventually starting up farming and who had actually started to make progress on that front, has just given up on being human. He is almost grateful for being rendered little more then a sack of meat who can pilot a Gundam to butcher his friend's enemies as that means he doesn't have to think about anything other then being a tool of slaughter. While most of Tekkaden is playing this off as no big deal, it is visibly breaking Atra and Kudelia, the few people on Mika's side who are not caught up in all the military madness to the point that his childhood friend begs Kudelia to get knocked up with Mika's baby in the small hope that it might stop Mikazuki from continuing on literally destroying his body.
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Dec 27, 2016 12:22
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VolticSurge posted:So, I gave up on watching the second season after a friend of mine told me it has the same flaws as S1-Naze being treated as the Second loving Coming,the villains being lovely and unthreatening while the "heroes" barely break a sweat,etc. But,I've been thinking lately-should I give it a shot,or was my friend right? It's not too late to get better friends I hope
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Dec 27, 2016 16:01
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The show was being called bad here as early as 3 weeks ago, and nothing's changed since then. Characters are still alive, even Quatre's dad died by this point.
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Dec 27, 2016 16:05
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Tae posted:The show was being called bad here as early as 3 weeks ago, and nothing's changed since then. Characters are still alive, even Quatre's dad died by this point. Character deaths aren't the sole measure of consequence. A bunch of kids losing their dreams of normal lives and turning into monsters who exist only to kill in service of a new interplanetary tyrant is also pretty bad.
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Dec 27, 2016 16:14
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Darth Walrus posted:Character deaths aren't the sole measure of consequence. A bunch of kids losing their dreams of normal lives and turning into monsters who exist only to kill in service of a new interplanetary tyrant is also pretty bad. Besides, if IBO starts killing main or secondary characters it's the kind of show where it's going to put a bullet in several at once.
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Dec 27, 2016 16:15
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I for one cant wait for the characters to die in increasingly stupid ways to give me the sense that war is tragic and incomprehensible. When is Ride going to fly into an asteroid?
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Dec 27, 2016 16:16
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Am I missing something with the ride picture in the last page?
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Dec 27, 2016 16:19
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Tae posted:Am I missing something with the ride picture in the last page? The lightning bolts on the chest resemble a certain infamous logo from last century.
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Dec 27, 2016 16:23
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Tae posted:Am I missing something with the ride picture in the last page? Let's just say you did nazi the obvious issues with it. Neither did the design artist, most likely.
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Dec 27, 2016 16:26
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It wouldn't be a thought if only for the fact that hitler is literally a choffeur to tekkadan.
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Dec 27, 2016 17:05
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The end to season 1 wasn't great. I've had no complaints so far throughout the second season. EDIT: aside from two episodes back to back teasing Ride dying
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Dec 27, 2016 21:50
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ADTRW at the beginning of Season One - "I like that this Gundam show is doing something cool and different, let's hope that they stick to that." ADTRW in the middle of Season Two - "This is a bad Gundam show because they aren't pointlessly killing characters off to show how tough the bad guys are/how tragic war is like every other Gundam show."
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Dec 27, 2016 21:58
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Psycho Landlord posted:ADTRW at the beginning of Season One - "I like that this Gundam show is doing something cool and different, let's hope that they stick to that." Part of the thing that was 'cool and different' about Season 1 is that it had real meaningful long-term consequences to the violence and if someone got their poo poo wrecked in battle it left them at best maimed at and at worst dead. Even then it mostly just applied to the villains but it earned the benefit of the doubt until the end of Season 1 where the undid that. Like, yeah, Gundam IBO not having a viscous body count is a downside to me because one of the strengths of the franchise was that it did that, not because 'other Gundam shows did it.'
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Dec 27, 2016 22:05
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ImpAtom posted:Part of the thing that was 'cool and different' about Season 1 is that it had real meaningful long-term consequences to the violence and if someone got their poo poo wrecked in battle it left them at best maimed at and at worst dead. Even then it mostly just applied to the villains but it earned the benefit of the doubt until the end of Season 1 where the undid that. Except for the main character getting permanently disabled
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Dec 27, 2016 22:06
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Guy Goodbody posted:Except for the main character getting permanently disabled Mika's injuries are from overtaxing his super suit and not from actual injury in battle. They're interesting (though I don't have a ton of faith in them sticking to the consequences but that may just be cynicism) but it isn't really in the same line as the actual direct combat being brutal and unforgiving. Like it's awful but it isn't awful in the same way as the Brewers kids being smashed or Carta getting beaten to death in her own suit or the countless low-level pilots who basically died unceremoniously.
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Dec 27, 2016 22:08
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At least G-reco had some fans. Who does IBO appeal to? Not the japanese and judging by the toonami thread, not the americans either.
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Dec 27, 2016 22:10
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Tae posted:At least G-reco had some fans. Who does IBO appeal to? Not the japanese and judging by the toonami thread, not the americans either. IBO appeals to me.
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Dec 27, 2016 22:11
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Tae posted:At least G-reco had some fans. Who does IBO appeal to? Not the japanese and judging by the toonami thread, not the americans either. IBO apparently does pretty well in the US from all reports. The Toonami thread is just one barometer.
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Dec 27, 2016 22:13
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Tae posted:At least G-reco had some fans. Who does IBO appeal to? Not the japanese and judging by the toonami thread, not the americans either. IBO sold more dvds/bluerays than G-Reco (yeah very little difference but still) while doing way better model wise in the states 
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Dec 27, 2016 22:15
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Guy Goodbody posted:IBO appeals to me. This is probably my favorite AU gundam and in terms of UC stuff it's only flat out beaten by the original and War in the Pocket. ImpAtom posted:Mika's injuries are from overtaxing his super suit and not from actual injury in battle. They're interesting (though I don't have a ton of faith in them sticking to the consequences but that may just be cynicism) but it isn't really in the same line as the actual direct combat being brutal and unforgiving. Like it's awful but it isn't awful in the same way as the Brewers kids being smashed or Carta getting beaten to death in her own suit or the countless low-level pilots who basically died unceremoniously. We just had a named character horribly crushed inside their suit in an incredibly tragic and pointless fashion in a conflict that killed several other members of Tekkadan like four or five episodes ago which directly contributed to another named character who had been around since episode one leaving Tekkadan entirely. But people are ignoring this entirely because they seem incredibly upset that Lafter and Shino are still alive. Like, I get it, I thought Edmonton fell a bit flat too, but these complaints are getting ridiculous because they're flat ignoring poo poo that is clearly still happening in the show.
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Dec 27, 2016 22:22
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Psycho Landlord posted:We just had a named character horribly crushed inside their suit in an incredibly tragic and pointless fashion in a conflict that killed several other members of Tekkadan like four or five episodes ago which directly contributed to another named character who had been around since episode one leaving Tekkadan entirely. But people are ignoring this entirely because they seem incredibly upset that Lafter and Shino are still alive. Like, I get it, I thought Edmonton fell a bit flat too, but these complaints are getting ridiculous because they're flat ignoring poo poo that is clearly still happening in the show. The fact that Tekkadan got out of the battle in Edmonton unscathed is important because it sets up where they are and how overconfident they are at the beginning of Season 2. I get thinking it was kinda weak while you were watching Season 1, but yeah,I don't think it's a reasonable criticism anymore.
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Dec 27, 2016 22:27
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Psycho Landlord posted:Like, I get it, I thought Edmonton fell a bit flat too, but these complaints are getting ridiculous because they're flat ignoring poo poo that is clearly still happening in the show. If those things hit hard for you, that's fine. To me the character 'who has been around since episode 1' was barely a character and continues the show's problem with wanting at once to feel serious and consequential but keep it to the sidelines as often as possible. To me Edmonton didn't just fall flat, it undercut almost everything the show was doing. If you don't feel that way it's fine but it isn't because it isn't being like other Gundam shows, and the fact that they continued it with Vidar made it worse to me. Guy Goodbody posted:The fact that Tekkadan got out of the battle in Edmonton unscathed is important because it sets up where they are and how overconfident they are at the beginning of Season 2. I get thinking it was kinda weak while you were watching Season 1, but yeah,I don't think it's a reasonable criticism anymore. I don't think their overconfidence is executed well enough to justify that. It isn't just Tekkadan who escape what in any other point in the series would have been assured death. To me Vidar is only a hair less stupid than, say, Neo Roanoke and only because of better execution and a slightly more plausible survival. I've not posted too much in this thread as much largely because, yeah, I've been pretty disappointed in S2 so far. (Though it has had some strong moments.) I'm just sort of burned out on any criticism being met with "No, you whiny baby, you just don't know what you want!" instead of acknowledging that maybe people aren't buying into the show as much as you are. I don't want to burn down anyone's hype but I'm not criticizing IBO because it isn't being enough like other Gundams. I'm criticizing it because I don't feel it's being true to the ideas it puts forward. YMMV. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Dec 27, 2016 |
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Dec 27, 2016 22:28
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Guy Goodbody posted:The fact that Tekkadan got out of the battle in Edmonton unscathed is important because it sets up where they are and how overconfident they are at the beginning of Season 2. I get thinking it was kinda weak while you were watching Season 1, but yeah,I don't think it's a reasonable criticism anymore. A key point of this is that they didn't get out unscathed - Orga spent a lot of lives on that attack and the only reason we don't think about that is because they weren't named characters. The problem is the show only touched on that once, during Edmonton itself, and then it was never mentioned again. I completely agree that part of the point is Tekkadan's success and general lack of casualties is going to their heads, but they lost a lot of people there then never brought it up again after the fact, and honestly it probably should have been. Even Shino had a moment about the guys that died under his command on the Brewer's ship, for reference. ImpAtom posted:the fact that they continued it with Vidar made it worse to me. They've been so coy about Vidar despite the incredibly obvious set up and overt hints that I'm not entirely convinced there isn't going to be some crazy curveball thrown at that particular plot hook.
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Dec 27, 2016 22:41
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MSG was poo poo because not a single named hero died in the final battle. What a terrible ending.
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Dec 27, 2016 22:53
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Psycho Landlord posted:They've been so coy about Vidar despite the incredibly obvious set up and overt hints that I'm not entirely convinced there isn't going to be some crazy curveball thrown at that particular plot hook. It's possible but I admit they'll have to earn that confidence from me, simply because "the guy in the mask with the obvious voice actor turns out to be the obvious character" is so insanely common that I wouldn't give any show benefit of the doubt. (Not to mention if it's a curveball it's going to end up increasingly nonsensical with how far they've gone to making it clear who the character is. If they suddenly reveal it's Carta's reanimated head attached to a cyborg body or whatever it'll be a twist but a dumb one.) If they have a really strong and good reason for the twist then I'll be pleased but it'll have to be a hell of a good one to spend half the season pretending it's another character. I'm not trying to let my negativity overwhelm things and I'll be 100% pleased if the show exceeds my expectations because I have nothing to gain from it failing them and I really like the S2 mecha designs so I'd like to be happy with the show overall.
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Dec 27, 2016 22:55
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Who is the guy in the mask hasn't really been a mystery in Gundam ever. The bigger question is, why are they wearing a mask and not who are they.
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Dec 27, 2016 22:57
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Belzac posted:Who is the guy in the mask hasn't really been a mystery in Gundam ever. The bigger question is, why are they wearing a mask and not who are they. G-Gundam.
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Dec 27, 2016 23:01
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He's Schwarz Bruder, the representative of Neo Germany. Also using G-Gundam as an example of any Gundam trope.
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Dec 27, 2016 23:02
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Not really sure why some people are determined to hate Naze or bitch that Tekkadan hasn't had some horrific, blatant, catastrophic fall. Is the Naze hate because they can't figure out the Turbines seen to pretty much just Tekkadan, "Harem" edition and that the whole thing is probably just a protection scheme to keep them from being exploited from assholes in Teiwaz or elsewhere? Gives me the same impression as Orga picking up strays in the Brewers arc. Meanwhile they've been making it pretty drat clear that while Tekkadan is militarily holding its own just fine they're completely and utterly in over their head for dealing with any other aspect of what's going on around them at this point. for fucks sake Mika is literally crippling himself and given up hope of being anything other than a weapon of war in the pursuit of a dream that is increasingly unlikely to ever happen because Orga is running head long towards it while having no idea what it truly is.
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Dec 27, 2016 23:06
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Tae posted:G-Gundam. And why did he wear the mask? To hide that he was identical to the main villain of the story.* Then a whole bunch of other things happen to change what we think about all that, but the point still stands.
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Dec 27, 2016 23:06
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