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Decrepus posted:It was really good when no one could figure out that the white school-trip coordinator who kept posting zany stories about his urban students was made up. Is there a link?
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Dec 26, 2016 07:02
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Khazar-khum posted:Is there a link? http://ghettohikes.tumblr.com/
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Dec 26, 2016 07:21
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Khazar-khum posted:Is there a link? I think it's this: http://ghettohikes.tumblr.com/
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Dec 26, 2016 07:21
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Fleta Mcgurn posted:I think it's this: http://ghettohikes.tumblr.com/ This is spectacularly racist, wow 
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Dec 26, 2016 07:57
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System Metternich posted:This is spectacularly racist, wow Noooo, it says right at the top that the kids are of various ethnicities! 
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Dec 26, 2016 08:08
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I am a little bit embarrassed about my long post but I think that site really underlines my point: certain white people don't think black people inhabit the same cultural space as them. Like the idea of black people hiking is inherently funny to them because they don't believe that hiking and hiking culture is part of what they perceive to be black culture. They don't get that there is an American culture we are all a part of.
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Dec 26, 2016 08:54
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:I am a little bit embarrassed about my long post but I think that site really underlines my point: certain white people don't think black people inhabit the same cultural space as them. It's flat-out racism, like, all black people are obviously from inner city ghetto rap culture and don't know what a tree is and have names like "Delorean" 
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Dec 26, 2016 10:44
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I'm saying racism is a lot simpler than what is going on. Take the new Star Wars movie. Everybody's seen it, everybody's talking about it. Some white person could take a contextless photo of a little black girl at a movie theater, create a social media profile for a fake black woman, and share the photo with the caption "NYESHA LOVE THE NEW STAR WAR. SHE SAID IT FUCKIN AWESOME" and that picture would go go viral. Because there are literally thousands of white people who would be in stitches at the idea of a black mom and daughter seeing Rogue One just like them.
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Dec 26, 2016 11:18
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:I'm saying racism is a lot simpler than what is going on. This reminds me of the stdh where the nerd is playing Pokemon on a bus and a black guy sits next to him and wants to trade Pokemon and somehow this situation is inherently funny. There are definitely others along similar lines to make it a stdh trope so I see where you're coming from and agree.
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Dec 26, 2016 13:52
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hey can we not with this derail cool thanks in advance
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Dec 26, 2016 14:01
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System Metternich posted:This is spectacularly racist, wow Have you spent much time with inner-city kids on the poverty line? It's not really very racist... When you have drug-addicted parents who don't give a gently caress, it doesn't matter if you're black or white (or purple or whatever the gently caress), you're going to be raised in an environment of ignorance. I have been helping out with a bunch of 100% white meth head kids, and they certainly talk like that. These entirely white kids glorify this manner of speaking, because it is "real". Is this fake as poo poo? Yeah, but let's not make this about race.
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Dec 27, 2016 18:40
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baquerd posted:These entirely white kids glorify this manner of speaking, because it is "real". Even if the writer were a linguist who could more accurately capture poor black speech (and he definitely isn't), it's still racist to imply these kids were black and to put those words in their imaginary mouths. It's easy to read between the lines what he intended before he got policed into that qualifier that they were of all races.
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Dec 27, 2016 18:59
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kimbo305 posted:It's the tumblr author who's doing the 'glorification' here. I guess if they changed their tune as to race, that's an interesting datapoint. Where are you seeing anything about race on that site now though? Are people assuming that, because this pattern of speech matches a poor (double entendre) black caricature, that it is intended to be directed at blacks? My sister has a "black" name, which has caused her a lot of difficulty in life, but dumb fucks who talk like this website portrays have very little to do with race, but much more about their conditions growing up. Unless you are a true racist, making fun of how someone talks is about upbringing, not about race.
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Dec 27, 2016 19:08
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baquerd posted:I guess if they changed their tune as to race, that's an interesting datapoint. Where are you seeing anything about race on that site now though? The description was later updated to include the modifier "of all races" following "urban kids" after readers opined that "urban" was a code word for black. quote:Are people assuming that, because this pattern of speech matches a poor (double entendre) black caricature, that it is intended to be directed at blacks? And of course, by Occam's Razor, a site called Ghetto Hikes was not meant for its audience to think about all races of kids growing up to talk this way. It was meant for people to laugh in tune with their perceptions about black people.
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Dec 27, 2016 19:19
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kimbo305 posted:From snopes: Well, that's pretty obtuse to assume that urban means black. There may be disproportionate demographics, but I have no doubt that your average white upper-class kid put in the same conditions would react similarly. To say otherwise is racist by definition. kimbo305 posted:Just because it's not like how other socioeconomic groups talk doesn't make someone a "dumb gently caress." Thinking that way when you hear a certain kind of speech, no matter the topic of conversation, is... not making a great case. No, because it's how the people at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder talk is why they are "dumb fucks" because they aren't successful. I hate that black people are disproportionately represented as such, but those are the statistics, though myriad the causes may be.
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Dec 27, 2016 19:25
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Lol no urban is a racist code word don't be dumb. It's literally called Ghettohikes how dense can you be
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Dec 27, 2016 19:30
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baquerd posted:Well, that's pretty obtuse to assume that urban means black.
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Dec 27, 2016 19:32
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CharlestheHammer posted:Lol no urban is a racist code word don't be dumb. Jesus loving Christ, ghetto = black is that hard coded into your racist brain? Stop that, it's racist.
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Dec 27, 2016 19:37
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baquerd posted:Jesus loving Christ, ghetto = black is that hard coded into your racist brain? Stop that, it's racist. No it literally is along with urban and thug. Pretending it isn't doesn't make you not racist. As America is built on coded racism. I don't know what weird game you are playing but I hope it's just you aren't American.
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Dec 27, 2016 19:39
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No one click on his avatar link.
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Dec 27, 2016 19:40
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CharlestheHammer posted:No it literally is along with urban and thug. Pretending it isn't doesn't make you not racist. People with autism often have difficulty understanding that a word can have both connotations and denotations.
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Dec 27, 2016 19:44
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CharlestheHammer posted:No it literally is along with urban and thug. Pretending it isn't doesn't make you not racist. America is based on coded racism, sure, but I suggest we be real going forwards. Let's talk in plain terms about the issues facing anyone disadvantaged for any reason, race included, but let us not hide behind these words. Let's acknowledge why being black means you should get an advantage in college admissions, not because you're black, but because of the likely circumstances leading to your application. Let's talk about entirely capable blacks (no different than whites) who are essentially assured admission because they are being raised well and are put on a pedestal as a result. No one seems to understand that racism is, quite simply, basing decisions on some person's race. Anyone espousing that viewpoint is racist. Anyone who says that race should not matter is not racist. Why is this so hard to understand for so many people? Tunicate posted:People with autism often have difficulty understanding that a word can have both connotations and denotations. Edit: I am autistic, which I am sure makes these sort of discussions more difficult. baquerd has a new favorite as of 19:53 on Dec 27, 2016 |
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Dec 27, 2016 19:48
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baquerd posted:Edit: I am autistic, which I am sure makes these sort of discussions more difficult. This does explain it, yeah.
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Dec 27, 2016 20:20
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baquerd posted:America is based on coded racism, sure, but I suggest we be real going forwards. Or we could pretend that the world exists and that in it people sometimes say and do things that aren't literal. Ignoring the fact that code word racism exists doesn't make you not racist, it makes you ignore when people are being racist. Enabling racism isn't a great position to take if you want to be not racist.
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Dec 27, 2016 20:21
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Gambor posted:Or we could pretend that the world exists and that in it people sometimes say and do things that aren't literal. Ignoring the fact that code word racism exists doesn't make you not racist, it makes you ignore when people are being racist. Enabling racism isn't a great position to take if you want to be not racist. How can not seeing race lead to racism, except in the perverted sense that people from disadvantageous socio-economic background having poor outcomes may be correlated with race? Race is a social construct, it's not something real that makes you different, but society certainly segregates and makes real racial differences. Racists make race real, and they should be avoided and ostracized. I suggest that we collectively not be racists, and as a result, racism will die out.
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Dec 27, 2016 20:30
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Because ignoring a thing doesn't make it stop. It actually feeds it. That is why coded language became a thing in the first place.
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Dec 27, 2016 20:36
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baquerd posted:it doesn't matter if you're black or white (or purple or whatever the gently caress) Why do people always qualify statements like this with ridiculous colors? It's like the technicolor version of "I'm not racist, but..." I don't care if you're black or white or green or polka-dot but 
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Dec 27, 2016 20:36
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baquerd posted:Have you spent much time with inner-city kids on the poverty line? It's not really very racist... When you have drug-addicted parents who don't give a gently caress, it doesn't matter if you're black or white (or purple or whatever the gently caress), you're going to be raised in an environment of ignorance. I have been helping out with a bunch of 100% white meth head kids, and they certainly talk like that. These entirely white kids glorify this manner of speaking, because it is "real". This is the only post anyone should have needed to read before putting him on their ingnore list hth.
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Dec 27, 2016 20:40
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Bertrand Hustle posted:Why do people always qualify statements like this with ridiculous colors? It's like the technicolor version of "I'm not racist, but..." No biotruths here, just the regular truths. I don't believe anyone of any "race" is categorically better than any other human, I only mean to mock those who believe the color of our skin means something absent ignorant societal judgements. I am not ignoring racial divides, merely pointing out that such divides are not helpful, and a simple consideration of relative student accomplishment (via typical standardized testing or similar) is perhaps the best metric of where we should be spending public funds (those furthest away from standards typically have the most to gain).
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Dec 27, 2016 20:42
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baquerd posted:How can not seeing race lead to racism Because ignoring racism leads to people like you arguing that clearly racist things aren't racist if you ignore the context in which they exist. This in turn allows the offensive behavior to persist. Another way to say it might be: quote:Racists make race real, and they should be avoided and ostracized. Right now, what you're doing isn't ostracizing and avoiding racists, it's defending and apologizing for them.
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Dec 27, 2016 20:43
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Not seeing race is also ignoring the real and positive ways in which heritage and culture matter to people.
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Dec 27, 2016 20:46
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Gambor posted:Right now, what you're doing isn't ostracizing and avoiding racists, it's defending and apologizing for them. What racist behavior am I defending/apologizing for? Remember, a racist action is one taken solely or primarily on the basis of race. I am arguing the direct opposite, that we ignore race and focus on things that actually matter, such as poverty and poor educational conditions when growing up.
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Dec 27, 2016 20:46
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Well, poo poo, this DID happen.
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Dec 27, 2016 20:47
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someone please teach this robot about institutional racism
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Dec 27, 2016 20:48
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baquerd posted:a simple consideration of relative student accomplishment (via typical standardized testing or similar)  Standardized testing isn't the end all and be all you think it is. You can't get an objective measure of how good a human is.
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Dec 27, 2016 20:48
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Stroop There It Is posted:someone please teach this robot about institutional racism Please do. Why should the fact that those in power are racist impact my moral decision-making framework? WampaLord posted:Standardized testing isn't the end all and be all you think it is. You can't get an objective measure of how good a human is. Fair enough, but at a societal level, what other tools do we have?
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Dec 27, 2016 20:50
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baquerd posted:
your post history is a pretty good metric of what kind of person you are
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Dec 27, 2016 20:52
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baquerd posted:What racist behavior am I defending/apologizing for? baquerd posted:Well, that's pretty obtuse to assume that urban means black. baquerd posted:America is based on coded racism, sure, but I suggest we be real going forwards.
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Dec 27, 2016 20:56
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baquerd posted:Please do. Why should the fact that those in power are racist impact my moral decision-making framework? Hey, Baqy, create a new thread for this if you want to continue. THIS thread is for celebrating fictional self-aggrandizing stories, not an in-depth discussion of racism, okay? Otherwise, the mods or OP are going to shut it down, and I do NOT want that.
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Dec 27, 2016 20:56
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I'm done here on this topic as Samizdata suggests, but I would be very happy to continue this discussion through PM's with anyone currently involved (or not involved) in this discussion. I want to learn, but I haven't heard any logical arguments or information!
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Dec 27, 2016 20:59
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